I am an athiest. I was born Jewish and all 4 of my grandparents are Holocaust survivors. 3 of the 4 were the sole survivors in their family. That is why the survival of Israel is important to me. Religion is the cause of nearly every major conflict throughout history. Any religious person, regardless of religion, is brainwashed and foolish. You, and others like you, are living in a world that is thousands of years old before people had the resources and methodology to answer the "so-called" important questions. I feel sorry for you. Maybe one day you will wake up and realize that much of your life is being wasted devoting time to a bunch of old fairytales, mind-control tactics, and bullsh*t. The world would be MUCH better off without religion.
[QUOTE=RoadFan;2952348]I am an athiest. I was born Jewish and all 4 of my grandparents are Holocaust survivors. 3 of the 4 were the sole survivors in their family. That is why the survival of Israel is important to me. Religion is the cause of nearly every major conflict throughout history. Any religious person, regardless of religion, is brainwashed and foolish. You, and others like you, are living in a world that is thousands of years old before people had the resources and methodology to answer the "so-called" important questions. I feel sorry for you. Maybe one day you will wake up and realize that much of your life is being wasted devoting time to a bunch of old fairytales, mind-control tactics, and bullsh*t. The world would be MUCH better off without religion.[/QUOTE]
Atheist & Jewish + this dribble = Lake of Fire for you.
[QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;2952637][B]AS FOR THIS THREAD[/B]
My initial instinct was to close it, but I see from the number of hits this is a popular thread, so once again I'm going to err on the side of free speech and leave this thread open for now, provided this conversation can get back on a more civil vibe ... and if it doesn't, then I'm afraid I will have no choice but to lock and dump this thread .. so its up to you guys .. the tone of this debate going forward will determine whether or not this thread remains open[/QUOTE]
I am glad you will leave it open. It is nice to have an outlet to discuss this topic. Unfortunately, logic and reasoning often give way to anger and personal attacks on this subject. Myself included. I would be lying if I said I weren't enraged watching the news and seeing the numbers of people protesting Israel's actions. I will try to keep it toned down though.
[QUOTE=RoadFan;2952736]I am glad you will leave it open. It is nice to have an outlet to discuss this topic. Unfortunately, logic and reasoning often give way to anger and personal attacks on this subject. Myself included. I would be lying if I said I weren't enraged watching the news and seeing the numbers of people protesting Israel's actions. I will try to keep it toned down though.[/QUOTE]
it is refreshing to see that people around the world view this aggression just as what it is, israeli aggression. You still have the new york post though. Check out that catchy front cover today, "Israeli troops invade terrorland." Im happy they took time to view a deadly conflict affecting both sides of the border as a video game. They even have two soldiers posing commando style.
[QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;2953009]And he's calling the cameraman a nazi .. pretty unbelievable, huh?[/QUOTE]
"We killed Jesus and we're proud of it":rolleyes: You're right Ham it is pretty unbelievable..I thought it was the Arabs they hated, not Christians too..I guess every religion has their fanatics like these two racists. There are no bigger supporters of Israel then Christians.
Last edited by 2009fatman; 01-04-2009 at 05:05 PM.
[QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;2952627]Both of you guys need to chill, yo :eek:
Sackdance, I've given you a lot of slack my friend, more than most, but you provoked this attack when you called this man a liar and labeled his faith a sham. If you had a civil conversation about scripture or what constitutes Christianity this probably doesn't happen, but when you call someone a liar and his own testimonial a sham, well as we used to say back in the day, those are fighting words.
As for muh-man Jay, this is way over the top, but I can relate, if somebody called me a liar and labeled my faith a sham, I'd probably be angry too. I'm slow to anger, but there's a chance that might do the trick, and once I get to that place all bets are off ... and I'm capable of reacting as you did, or worse, but that doesn't make it right and I have to ask you to please refrain from any further counter attacks of this nature.
So lets just chalk this off to things getting a little too over-heated and I blame myself for not intervening sooner, before it got to this point .. I saw the earlier exchange between you guys ... I don't post in this forum very often anymore, in fact very rarely, but I did happen to see your earlier exchange and I had a feeling it was heading in this direction, but I didn't trust my instincts, tried to err on the side of free speech, but obviously I made a bad call so I'm partly to blame here as well
On that note, lets just start over
Sackdance, you need to choose your words more carefully with people ... I know you fancy yourself some kind of preacher and I've never given you a hard time about that, but you need to start using more tact, you can't just call someone a liar and call his faith a sham under the guise of preaching and think that makes it okay .. that is a personal attack and in direct violation of this boards rules, so if you can't preach without going there and if you can't debate scripture in a civil manner, then just don't preach at all ... and again, its not your preaching I have a problem with, I don't even care if you tell me I'm going to hell if I don't embrace your particular understanding of the bible, maybe I am and maybe I'm not, we'll both find out on the other side, but as for "THIS SIDE" and as for JI, personal attacks are OUT and preaching does not give you an exemption ... fair enough?
And Jay, if you encounter any further personal attacks please refrain from any counter attacks of this kind, it only inflames the situation and makes it worse. Although I understand the impulse to return fire, that's in my DNA as well, I would much rather you PM me or another mod, provide the link, and let us deal with it. If I'm around I'll nip it in the bud, you have my word, but please no more counter attacks of this kind. You can use your wit and that's fine, but this kind of attack is still a violation even if you were provoked.
Anyway, in closing, I like both of you guys and I don't play favorites, so I'm asking you both, politely and like a gentleman, to please let this argument end as of right now and in the future either try to use more tact with one another, or if you think that's impossible, put the other guy on [COLOR="Red"]"ignore"[/COLOR] so you don't have to deal with him anymore .. whichever you prefer and either one works just fine.
Ham I love you bro, I have to say that calling someone a liar is a joke if you want to compare that with what he posted about me in that last rant. With that, I could care less about what was written about me there. It doesn't bother me in the least bit, and I mean that. I'm just making a point that you're comparing apples and oranges here. :scratch:
The only thing I will say is if you're going to make threats of violence against me you better be able to box better than me and I've met only a few over time who can. 6'1" 225 with hands like lunch boxes I can promise there will be no smack coming from you nor anyone your size holding me down until a crowd forms. :boxer:
For the rest of you, I think everyone who has been around here long enough knows what I say is half joking. Most of these guys on JI here that I condemn to hell are people I've met at 16-H and when I have we end up laughing about the stuff I write here. There is no anger or threats made when I see these people in person whatsoever. If I saw doggin at 16-H I'd tell him he's a hellbound midget and he'd probably laugh (I think). People are way too sensitive and if you don't see my sense of humor through my posts you may be slightly blind. I've abused Warfish for years here and while a newcomer may see it as a personal attack hating on me I'd give that guy a big hug if I ever met him. :hifive:
Maybe I'm harsh and over the top but that's me. Whatever I do I do it 100%. So mind your manners and be thankful that I’m an old-fashioned 34 year old guy who believes there are some traditions and truths better left unchanged. My natural personal intensity is one. Whatever I am doing - even weaving pot holders — I am going to do it with passion and intensity. :weight_li
With that I don't regret any of my words but if I offended anyone with them I apologize. :loveme:
Last edited by sackdance99; 01-04-2009 at 08:21 PM.
[QUOTE=pauliec;2939776]I ask this question because I really, honestly, do not know the answer: Can peace ever be attainable between Israelis and Palestinians? And if so, how do they achieve that peace? What's the solution?[/QUOTE]
I think peace will only be attained between the Palestinians and the Israelis when the entire Arab/Israel mindset changes. The Palestinians are the throw away pawns in the Arab struggle against Israel. When/if the Arabs realize that Israel will always be there and it is to their advantage to recognize that and move on the will be peace.
Now, how to bring about that change of attitude or how to convince the Arabs that being peaceful neighbors with Israel is something that will be to their advantage is another question. I really think the land struggle is the wrapping paper covering the stinking fish in the package. Unwrap the package and throwout the rotting fish. Maybe then they could live in peace.