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Thread: Thoughts On Mangini, Favre, Woody, Tannenbaum, Cowher, Pennington and Belichick

  1. #1
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    Thoughts On Mangini, Favre, Woody, Tannenbaum, Cowher, Pennington and Belichick

    Where do I start? There is so much here to cover. I haven't chimed in yet on any of these subjects. Each subject kind of ties in to the other. Brace yourself, This is going to be a long post.

    [B]ERIC MANGINI[/B]

    Eric Mangini is the fall guy for The Jets crashing and burning in 2008. The majority of the fans and media didn't want him back. Does he deserve all the blame? NO but he was the head coach. The buck stops with him.

    Was he a fraud or in over his head?.... I don't think so. Eric didn't become stupid overnight. He wasn't an idiot after the team beat Belichick and The Pats in New England or The undefeated Titans on the road.

    Where did it all go wrong for him?... The Jets late season collapse falls directly on his door step. It was like the perfect storm. The team went into a major slump and Eric couldn't get the team out of the slide. That falls on him. He tried but he didn't do it. What sealed his fate this year was his decisions in Seattle. He went the conservative route early, passed on a Feely kick and then gambled late on a 4th down on his own 19. The results of his decisions were poor in that game. That was the worst coached game of his 3 year jet career. Ultimately, That game sealed his fate.

    The biggest problem with Eric Mangini is that he wasn't the type of head coach that could inspire or galvanize a franchise. Eric is not a rah rah or motivational speaker type. He's more like a teacher. He's not a cheerleader or a drill seargent type.

    I still believe that Eric Mangini is a very good coach. He's smart and extremely hard working. He came in here as a rookie head coach taking over a 4 win team. He overacheived in year one, beat The Pats, won 10 games and made the playoffs. In year two, The front office short changed him with virtually no roster upgrades. The team took a step back and went 4 and 12.

    In year 3, The front office stepped up, got him some horses for the race and the team was in prime position to be a major contender before falling off course and crashing down the stretch. The team fell short of expectations and Eric gets a good portion of the blame but remember where the team was after 11 games. Mangini helped get the team there.

    While most Jets fans are elated that someone got killed for this year's collapse. I am sad to see Eric Mangini go. I had high hopes for him. I really wanted The Jets to get a young smart coach that could last them for 12 to 15 years. I really thought that Eric was that guy. I love his approach and his work ethic. Ultimately, His run was cut short and it didn't end nicely and it's a shame in my book. There was one main culprit for Mangini's demise as Jets head coach and that is............

    [B]BRETT FAVRE[/B]

    Brett Favre was awful late in the season and he's one of the major reasons that The Jets went 1 and 4 down the stretch. He's one of the major reasons why Eric Mangini is no longer the coach. Brett played poorly and it had nothing to do with coaching. He made poor decision after poor decision with the football. He was a mess down the stretch. He cost the Jets mightily. The so called saviour and hero was anything but. I respect him mightily and enjoy his enthusiasm and leadership but he's old and breaking down. The Jets tried to swing for the fences and hit a home run with Favre and ultimately, They struck out. Will he come back? I doubt it. If he does, Why should I be excited about it? Kellen Clemens could have thrown 22 interceptions just as easily. Mike Tannenbaum pulled all the strings to get Favre and it was a gamble that didn't pay off..........

    [B]MIKE TANNENBAUM[/B]

    Mr. T deserves more heat than he is getting. He's got alot of power right now with The Jets. He's the second most powerful man in The entire Jets operation. I like Tannenbaum as a deal maker but he's screwed up alot as Jets GM in his first 3 years on the job. In year two, He's directly to blame for The Jets 4 and 12 finish. The Kendall situation and the way, He handled the free agent market. Tannenbaum drafted D'Brick instead of Cutler and he's had other mistakes. It hurt Tannenbaum to fire the guy he pushed for as head coach in Mangini. Tannenbaum and Mangini are and maybe now "were" best friends but it's all about self preservation. Tanny has the owner's ear and trust. So he's safe for now. The biggest faux pas by Mr. T was not trading Chad Pennington. He instead released him freely and allowed him to burn the Jets franchise. The failure of Favre falls on Mike. He took the risk and failed but hey, Tanny doesn't need Mangini, He's got the owner on his side.

    [B]WOODY JOHNSON[/B]

    Woody is all about the consumer right now and the team image. He loves Favre and wants him back because it gives the team prestige. Woody canned Mangini because it's what the consumer wants. It's all about public perception and PSL's. It's great to have an owner that is interested in what the fan base wants but just because the fan base wants something. It doesn't make it right. That press conference monday morning was very telling in my book. It will be interesting to see what Woody does with the head coaching position. It's clear to me that he wants a new face to the franchise. A new leader to sell to the fan base.

    [B]BILL COWHER[/B]

    The Jets are going to try and get him to come here. Interesting tidbit that Woody doesn't want his new head coach to assume the GM role. Tannenbaum is his guy, Would that be the deciding factor in whether Cowher becomes the new leader of the Jets?.... It could be. I respect Bill Cowher as a head coach and he would be a fit because of his credibility and schematically from a 3-4 standpoint but Do The Jets have the right pieces in place to entice him to come here? I don't know. The owner has the money to get it done but alot has to be set in place for him to cut short his retirement and come to New York. I am not as gung ho about him coming here as other Jets fans are. What are the other options? The Jets already had an unproven head coach that was trying to prove himself here. He's gone now. Do The Jets really need to go down the same road again?... The Jets need a proven winner and the theory is that The Jets are a win now team. The Jets with Favre are a Win Yesterday team.

    [B]CHAD PENNINGTON AND BILL BELICHICK[/B]

    These are the two big winners in the Jets collapse and Mangini firing. Let's start with Pennington. In a strange way, I am happy for Chad Pennington. The Jets fans disregarded and disrespected him. He was always a good quarterback that was never great for The Jets but he was treated by many as a player that was a bum. He was far from that and he proved it this year. Jets fans and Pennington haters are eating some massive crow now. I hate The Fish and I wish he wasn't on that team but Pennington deserves all the good that has come to him. As for Belichick, In a strange way, the only good that came out of The 2008 Jets season was the Jets defeating his team in New England. That Jets win prevented the Pats from making the playoffs. Belichick's consolation prize is that he was right. His prized pupil, Eric Mangini should have listened to him and should have never taken the Jets job. That's the way, Bill Belichick probably feels right now. The Jets would have been better off with Pennington instead of Favre and Mangini would have been better off staying with Belichick than coming to the Jets. Call it Karma if you like but The Jets betrayed Pennington and Chad got revenge. Mangini betrayed Belichick only to have his best friend, Tannenbaum betray him. Both Pennington and Belichick ended up on the winning side of all of this.

    [B]FINAL THOUGHTS[/B]

    The Jets are starting over all over again. We have all as Jets fans been down this road before. We can only pray and hope that it doesn't lead us back right to where we are today. Beaten, heartbroken and starting over all over again.

  2. #2
    Where do I start? There is so much here to cover. I haven't chimed in yet on any of these subjects. Each subject kind of ties in to the other. Brace yourself, This is going to be a long post.

    [B]ERIC MANGINI[/B]

    Eric Mangini is the fall guy for The Jets crashing and burning in 2008. The majority of the fans and media didn't want him back. Does he deserve all the blame? NO but he was the head coach. The buck stops with him.

    Was he a fraud or in over his head?.... I don't think so. Eric didn't become stupid overnight. He wasn't an idiot after the team beat Belichick and The Pats in New England or The undefeated Titans on the road.

    Where did it all go wrong for him?... The Jets late season collapse falls directly on his door step. It was like the perfect storm. The team went into a major slump and Eric couldn't get the team out of the slide. That falls on him. He tried but he didn't do it. What sealed his fate this year was his decisions in Seattle. He went the conservative route early, passed on a Feely kick and then gambled late on a 4th down on his own 19. The results of his decisions were poor in that game. That was the worst coached game of his 3 year jet career. Ultimately, That game sealed his fate.

    The biggest problem with Eric Mangini is that he wasn't the type of head coach that could inspire or galvanize a franchise. Eric is not a rah rah or motivational speaker type. He's more like a teacher. He's not a cheerleader or a drill seargent type.

    I still believe that Eric Mangini is a very good coach. He's smart and extremely hard working. He came in here as a rookie head coach taking over a 4 win team. He overacheived in year one, beat The Pats, won 10 games and made the playoffs. In year two, The front office short changed him with virtually no roster upgrades. The team took a step back and went 4 and 12.

    In year 3, The front office stepped up, got him some horses for the race and the team was in prime position to be a major contender before falling off course and crashing down the stretch. The team fell short of expectations and Eric gets a good portion of the blame but remember where the team was after 11 games. Mangini helped get the team there.

    While most Jets fans are elated that someone got killed for this year's collapse. I am sad to see Eric Mangini go. I had high hopes for him. I really wanted The Jets to get a young smart coach that could last them for 12 to 15 years. I really thought that Eric was that guy. I love his approach and his work ethic. Ultimately, His run was cut short and it didn't end nicely and it's a shame in my book. There was one main culprit for Mangini's demise as Jets head coach and that is............


    [B]Mangini simply got much worse as a coach this year than previous years. Even in the 4-12 year he actually was a better in game coach in my mind. I was fully behind him through last year and to start this year but I began to have serious doubts well before the collapse when you could see obvious faults with this team and he was unable or unwilling to correct them. I liked the guy as a person but I would have had very little confidence in the man if he was starting as the coach next year.[/B]

    [B]BRETT FAVRE[/B]

    Brett Favre was awful late in the season and he's one of the major reasons that The Jets went 1 and 4 down the stretch. He's one of the major reasons why Eric Mangini is no longer the coach. Brett played poorly and it had nothing to do with coaching. He made poor decision after poor decision with the football. He was a mess down the stretch. He cost the Jets mightily. The so called saviour and hero was anything but. I respect him mightily and enjoy his enthusiasm and leadership but he's old and breaking down. The Jets tried to swing for the fences and hit a home run with Favre and ultimately, They struck out. Will he come back? I doubt it. If he does, Why should I be excited about it? Kellen Clemens could have thrown 22 interceptions just as easily. Mike Tannenbaum pulled all the strings to get Favre and it was a gamble that didn't pay off..........

    [B]Favre was indeed bad down the stretch and made some really lousy plays but he also won a couple of games earlier in the year that a Chad Pennington would not have won. Also the Jets WR's were really played badly down the stretch as well, as in really bad. They couldn't get open, were blanketed 90% of the time and NEVER won a 50/50 ball. As I stated in a number of other threads, other QB's toss the ball up for grabs especially on long bombs and the WR's at the least put up a fight for the ball. (See Ted Ginn coming up with a Pennington floater that was under thrown while being double covered.) In the end Favres play went into the tank near the end but he got very little help from the receiving corps.[/B]


    [B]MIKE TANNENBAUM[/B]

    Mr. T deserves more heat than he is getting. He's got alot of power right now with The Jets. He's the second most powerful man in The entire Jets operation. I like Tannenbaum as a deal maker but he's screwed up alot as Jets GM in his first 3 years on the job. In year two, He's directly to blame for The Jets 4 and 12 finish. The Kendall situation and the way, He handled the free agent market. Tannenbaum drafted D'Brick instead of Cutler and he's had other mistakes. It hurt Tannenbaum to fire the guy he pushed for as head coach in Mangini. Tannenbaum and Mangini are and maybe now "were" best friends but it's all about self preservation. Tanny has the owner's ear and trust. So he's safe for now. The biggest faux pas by Mr. T was not trading Chad Pennington. He instead released him freely and allowed him to burn the Jets franchise. The failure of Favre falls on Mike. He took the risk and failed but hey, Tanny doesn't need Mangini, He's got the owner on his side.

    [B]Agree that Tannebaum deserves some heat, but he really has been pretty good in my mind the last few years, the signings for the most part last year were decent in my mind and the drafting has been good. I don't have too many problems with him at this point.[/B]

    [B]WOODY JOHNSON[/B]

    Woody is all about the consumer right now and the team image. He loves Favre and wants him back because it gives the team prestige. Woody canned Mangini because it's what the consumer wants. It's all about public perception and PSL's. It's great to have an owner that is interested in what the fan base wants but just because the fan base wants something. It doesn't make it right. That press conference monday morning was very telling in my book. It will be interesting to see what Woody does with the head coaching position. It's clear to me that he wants a new face to the franchise. A new leader to sell to the fan base.

    [B]BILL COWHER[/B]

    The Jets are going to try and get him to come here. Interesting tidbit that Woody doesn't want his new head coach to assume the GM role. Tannenbaum is his guy, Would that be the deciding factor in whether Cowher becomes the new leader of the Jets?.... It could be. I respect Bill Cowher as a head coach and he would be a fit because of his credibility and schematically from a 3-4 standpoint but Do The Jets have the right pieces in place to entice him to come here? I don't know. The owner has the money to get it done but alot has to be set in place for him to cut short his retirement and come to New York. I am not as gung ho about him coming here as other Jets fans are. What are the other options? The Jets already had an unproven head coach that was trying to prove himself here. He's gone now. Do The Jets really need to go down the same road again?... The Jets need a proven winner and the theory is that The Jets are a win now team. The Jets with Favre are a Win Yesterday team.

    [B]Cowher is down the list for me as far as candidates go. I'm not that high on him.
    [/B]

    [B]CHAD PENNINGTON AND BILL BELICHICK[/B]

    These are the two big winners in the Jets collapse and Mangini firing. Let's start with Pennington. In a strange way, I am happy for Chad Pennington. The Jets fans disregarded and disrespected him. He was always a good quarterback that was never great for The Jets but he was treated by many as a player that was a bum. He was far from that and he proved it this year. Jets fans and Pennington haters are eating some massive crow now. I hate The Fish and I wish he wasn't on that team but Pennington deserves all the good that has come to him. As for Belichick, In a strange way, the only good that came out of The 2008 Jets season was the Jets defeating his team in New England. That Jets win prevented the Pats from making the playoffs. Belichick's consolation prize is that he was right. His prized pupil, Eric Mangini should have listened to him and should have never taken the Jets job. That's the way, Bill Belichick probably feels right now. The Jets would have been better off with Pennington instead of Favre and Mangini would have been better off staying with Belichick than coming to the Jets. Call it Karma if you like but The Jets betrayed Pennington and Chad got revenge. Mangini betrayed Belichick only to have his best friend, Tannenbaum betray him. Both Pennington and Belichick ended up on the winning side of all of this.
    [B]
    Pennington was injured and the team and fans stuck with him. The team paid him a truck load of money. Last year he was a bum, the team was bad but Pennington was terrible. One win and he gassed about 2 or 3 with turnovers as bad as Favres this year. I really don't get the poor old Chad mantra on here. He had his chance here, didn't do it for a variety of reasons, made a ton of money and was given the nicety of being released. The Jets 100% did the right thing in having the balls to go after Favre. It didn't work out but we have no idea if things would have been any better with Chad here, different teams, no wildcat, different philosophies.

    Re: Belichick and Mangini...nonsense. You have to go for the brass ring in this league while you can. For the money for the experience and for the simple reason that most coaches want to be head guys some day. Your use of the word 'betray' is totally not applicable here. Mangini took a good job offer, any coach in the league other than perhaps Belichick would have given their blessing and said good luck. Tannenbaum made a move that he either felt had to be made of one that his boss told him to do. This is pro sports, the NFL, it's a brutal business.

    I'm sure Belichick cares about .0000000001% about what happened to the Jets/Phins etc. He's more worried about Brady, what to do with Cassels and a million other things Pats related, that's why he'd a hell of a coach.[/B]


    [B]FINAL THOUGHTS[/B]

    The Jets are starting over all over again. We have all as Jets fans been down this road before. We can only pray and hope that it doesn't lead us back right to where we are today. Beaten, heartbroken and starting over all over again.

    [B]The team is way further ahead now than in other years, we simply have more good players and some that did not play up to their ability for whatever reason. If the Jets make a couple of shrewd moves and have a nice draft, get a new coach there is no reason they can't challenge immediately next year.[/B]

  3. #3
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    Beerfish, please name a game that Brett Favre won. I'm not even asking you to name a game that Pennington couldn't win, just name a damn game that Favre won for us.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=ChadOwnsBrady;2942470]Beerfish, [B]please name a game that Brett Favre won. [/B]I'm not even asking you to name a game that Pennington couldn't win, just name a damn game that Favre won for us.[/QUOTE]

    The game with the Cards and the Pats overtime win at Foxboro were vintage Favre in my book.

    But then he got old and lost us some games...and that hurt.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=YJF;2942265]Where do I start? There is so much here to cover. I haven't chimed in yet on any of these subjects. Each subject kind of ties in to the other. Brace yourself, This is going to be a long post.

    [B]ERIC MANGINI[/B]

    Eric Mangini is the fall guy for The Jets crashing and burning in 2008. The majority of the fans and media didn't want him back. Does he deserve all the blame? NO but he was the head coach. The buck stops with him.

    Was he a fraud or in over his head?.... I don't think so. Eric didn't become stupid overnight. He wasn't an idiot after the team beat Belichick and The Pats in New England or The undefeated Titans on the road.

    Where did it all go wrong for him?... The Jets late season collapse falls directly on his door step. It was like the perfect storm. The team went into a major slump and Eric couldn't get the team out of the slide. That falls on him. He tried but he didn't do it. What sealed his fate this year was his decisions in Seattle. He went the conservative route early, passed on a Feely kick and then gambled late on a 4th down on his own 19. The results of his decisions were poor in that game. That was the worst coached game of his 3 year jet career. Ultimately, That game sealed his fate.

    The biggest problem with Eric Mangini is that he wasn't the type of head coach that could inspire or galvanize a franchise. Eric is not a rah rah or motivational speaker type. He's more like a teacher. He's not a cheerleader or a drill seargent type.

    I still believe that Eric Mangini is a very good coach. He's smart and extremely hard working. He came in here as a rookie head coach taking over a 4 win team. He overacheived in year one, beat The Pats, won 10 games and made the playoffs. In year two, The front office short changed him with virtually no roster upgrades. The team took a step back and went 4 and 12.

    In year 3, The front office stepped up, got him some horses for the race and the team was in prime position to be a major contender before falling off course and crashing down the stretch. The team fell short of expectations and Eric gets a good portion of the blame but remember where the team was after 11 games. Mangini helped get the team there.

    While most Jets fans are elated that someone got killed for this year's collapse. I am sad to see Eric Mangini go. I had high hopes for him. I really wanted The Jets to get a young smart coach that could last them for 12 to 15 years. I really thought that Eric was that guy. I love his approach and his work ethic. Ultimately, His run was cut short and it didn't end nicely and it's a shame in my book. There was one main culprit for Mangini's demise as Jets head coach and that is............

    [B]BRETT FAVRE[/B]

    Brett Favre was awful late in the season and he's one of the major reasons that The Jets went 1 and 4 down the stretch. He's one of the major reasons why Eric Mangini is no longer the coach. Brett played poorly and it had nothing to do with coaching. He made poor decision after poor decision with the football. He was a mess down the stretch. He cost the Jets mightily. The so called saviour and hero was anything but. I respect him mightily and enjoy his enthusiasm and leadership but he's old and breaking down. The Jets tried to swing for the fences and hit a home run with Favre and ultimately, They struck out. Will he come back? I doubt it. If he does, Why should I be excited about it? Kellen Clemens could have thrown 22 interceptions just as easily. Mike Tannenbaum pulled all the strings to get Favre and it was a gamble that didn't pay off..........

    [B]MIKE TANNENBAUM[/B]

    Mr. T deserves more heat than he is getting. He's got alot of power right now with The Jets. He's the second most powerful man in The entire Jets operation. I like Tannenbaum as a deal maker but he's screwed up alot as Jets GM in his first 3 years on the job. In year two, He's directly to blame for The Jets 4 and 12 finish. The Kendall situation and the way, He handled the free agent market. Tannenbaum drafted D'Brick instead of Cutler and he's had other mistakes. It hurt Tannenbaum to fire the guy he pushed for as head coach in Mangini. Tannenbaum and Mangini are and maybe now "were" best friends but it's all about self preservation. Tanny has the owner's ear and trust. So he's safe for now. The biggest faux pas by Mr. T was not trading Chad Pennington. He instead released him freely and allowed him to burn the Jets franchise. The failure of Favre falls on Mike. He took the risk and failed but hey, Tanny doesn't need Mangini, He's got the owner on his side.

    [B]WOODY JOHNSON[/B]

    Woody is all about the consumer right now and the team image. He loves Favre and wants him back because it gives the team prestige. Woody canned Mangini because it's what the consumer wants. It's all about public perception and PSL's. It's great to have an owner that is interested in what the fan base wants but just because the fan base wants something. It doesn't make it right. That press conference monday morning was very telling in my book. It will be interesting to see what Woody does with the head coaching position. It's clear to me that he wants a new face to the franchise. A new leader to sell to the fan base.
    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with just about all of this EXCEPT the Eric Mangini portion. Eric Mangini was in over his head here. This had gotten out of his control. In the end, there was NO WAY he was going to win a SB here. Sometimes a coach NEEDS to be fired, go back and do some coordinator duties and look at the job they did from the outside. Then, later on, they come back as a MUCH better coach. That is what Mangini needs IMO.

    Brett Favre needs to go. His decisions suck and he showed that he was washed up down the stretch. I would prefer to go in the direction of getting a young QB and see if he catches on.

    YES, Mike Tannenbaum deserves SOME of the blame for the current Jets, but when you look at his moves as a whole body of work, it's obvious he's done a nice job and he should stay. He has yielded a lot of talent through the draft and free agency. We are building a good roster via good, sound general management.

    Your guess is as good as mine in regards to Woody. You could make a pretty compelling argument as to why he pulled the trigger on Mangini? PSL's? MAYBE.

    I'm just glad he made the decision. We as fans, got what we thought was necessary. Hopefully, now the team can turn things around..........

  6. #6
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    YJF- Great post, but you left an unaswered question. Who would you like to see as the next Jets coach?

  7. #7
    Mangini : Any coach that goes 0-4 on the West Coast must be fired.
    Favre: give the guy some WR's. ...Coles is done. Cotch is at best a 3-4 WR.
    I do not blame Favre for the collaspe. ...blame the O-line and WR. He was trying to make up for that and make some plays happen.
    Tanny: hmmmm. ....so far, he has brought in some promising players. Got ride of Mangini rather quickly :)

    Pennington: Think what he could have been if he wasn't a Jet for so long.
    I am happy for him. ...however, I would be more excited he if was taking the Vikings to the playoffs.

  8. #8
    I have to disagree somewhat on Mangini. These were problems that were there last year. Go over game by game last season and you'll see weird coaching moves and terrible brain farts. And that isn't hindsight either from me. Those were things I said at the time. That isnt to say he doesnt have his positives. He can make plans to beat good teams and if you give him a wekk he will beat anyone in the NFL. But he just couldnt handle a whole team right now. You saw Kendall blow up in 2007. The way he handled the QB situation last year between Chad and Kellen was very poor. He let Favre run all over him and looked like Mike Sherman out there. Refusing to come up for a way to use Gholston was bad. Carrying 8 million kickers and punters was rough too, though some of that blame goes on Tannenbaum.

    Tannenbaum does deserve blame as well. He and Eric did an awful job with Ben Graham early this year. The decision was made that one bad game had him gone way early, yet they allowed him to go into the regular season and then they were stuck with complete scrap heap talent like Reggie Hodges. The Chad deal was handled poorly. Now they could not have traded him once they made the move for Favre, but there was time before that once they had an idea they could get Favre. The Jets should have named Chad starter in June to increase his value. The team was never putting Clemens in there, but they wanted to put out this fake competition to make the super anti-Chad people be quiet about Clemens. He and Eric already helped wreck his value by what went on in 2007. It ended up costing the team a draft pick and Chad was as energized on Sunday as he was in the 2002 finale against the Packers.

    Im glad you have come on board with hose of us who said that the Jets are gearing everything towards media perception and the fan base. I firmly believe that was the sole reason behind paying players like Calvin Pace 42 million bucks and I know you disagreed, but certainly there is no secret behind that anymore. The Jets are really looking to make a media splash. I think its a mistake to do this in terms of hiring a coach, but the only moves he can make are Parcells, Cowher, or Billick I think.

    The Jets have some pieces in place to make a run. They need Gholston to step up and they need to hit on their first rounder this year. The Jets need impact players that can contribute now.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=ChadOwnsBrady;2942470]Beerfish, please name a game that Brett Favre won. I'm not even asking you to name a game that Pennington couldn't win, just name a damn game that Favre won for us.[/QUOTE]

    KC

  10. #10
    In all of this...in three years of coaching...explain the defense we play?

    Forget the drama of the people and the owner/GM/coach/QB soap opera now.

    Why in 3 years do we continue to be mediocre on defense, which was this guy's strength? We continually rank between 18th and 23rd in the league for 3 years. Back up QB's put up 400 yard games on us this year.

    I'm firing him because he hasn't established anything in particular that the Jets do well, other than run back punts. Show me a defense that stops teams, even when the offense has an off day. No pass rush. No pass defense. Slow linebackers in a 3-4 is a tragedy waiting to watch every week.

  11. #11
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    Great read as usual

  12. #12
    ...

    [QUOTE=YJF;2942265]Where do I start? There is so much here to cover. I haven't chimed in yet on any of these subjects. Each subject kind of ties in to the other. Brace yourself, This is going to be a long post. [/QUOTE]

    [B]ERIC MANGINI[/B]


    ... mangini gave us hope in year 1 that we may have that 10-15 year coach ... he was the # 1 man behind the best coach in the NFL, brought us to a big win against the pats during the season & a surprise playoff appearance ...

    ... year 2 the blame fell, deservedly so, at mike t's feet for the kendall fiasco ... no problem getting rid of him if his locker-room influence is bad for the chemistry of the team ... but stupid to the Nth degree to not have a good ... heck even a decent ... replacement first ...

    ... losing your starting and backup qb's within 8 plays of each other is reason enough for any coach to get a mulligan for the season ...


    ... year 3 ...

    ... mike t learned from his mistakes last season & brought in the troops for us to go to battle this year ... we had a ton of upgrades on the roster & plenty of opportunity to mesh the individuals together into a championship contending team ...

    ... the inability to do this falls at mangini's feet ...

    ... favre was terrible during the stretch ...

    ... thomas jones was very good, if not great, for us all season ... leon washington was electric ... our only homerun threat on offense ...

    ... the sideline go route resulted in about 4 times more bad plays than good ... favre obviously was not able to hit this play anymore ...

    ... the brad smith b/s behind the line of scrimmage was garbage ...

    ... not removing these plays outright from the playbook is mangini's fault ... if shott. kept calling them ... it's up to the h/c to step in and over-ride him ...

    ... not climbing on TJ's back and letting him carry us down the stretch while favre obviously was not able to make the plays that he was able to do as a younger player falls at mangini's feet ...

    ... giving our best player on offense leon washington only about 5 touches a game is unforgivable ... and falls directly at mangini's feet ...


    [B]BRETT FAVRE[/B]

    ... favre was a gamble to go into the season with ... pennington was a solid qb on the field and excellent with the locker-room, team leader, stand up and take the heat when the team falters side of being the face of the franchise ... able to bring the team to a decent height ... but - not able to overcome very good teams when needed ... favre had the ability and resume to do that ...

    ... brett favre gave us hope for something special during the 1st half of the season ... especially the arizona game had our heads swimming with possibilities ... but ... he was terrible down the stretch ... not bad ... TERRIBLE ...

    ... all that said he was not even the worst part of this team ...

    [B]MIKE TANNENBAUM[/B]

    ... mike t deserves the blame for the kendall fiasco a year ago ... if he had a replacement on board before this happened then let kendall go ... if not, suck it up ... kendall had the bargaining power ... mike t should have accepted that fact & paid him his money ...

    ... mike t deserves credit for d-brick, not blame ... cutler would not have done anything without an improvement in the travesty that we called an offensive line at that time ... cutler would have spent most of him time on his back, if not IR ...

    ... mike's moves in the last couple of drafts have been exceptional ... the move up for revis was monumental and has landed us that highly sought after shutdown cb for years to come... his landing the free agents targeted this season was awesome ...

    ... the strategy and moves he made to get favre deserve huge props ... i'm sure we were last, if not non-existent on teams favre was hoping to play for ... selling the packers first and favre second on even coming to ny to play for us was a coup of the highest degree ... he rolled the dice and took a gamble on favre ... it came up snake eyes, but this man is not meek ... he is not afraid of risk ... he is not locked to inside the box thinking ... he thinks quickly on his feet during the draft ... he sees opportunity where others don't ... has the sack to move on that opportunity ... and strikes immediately ...

    ... we are very, very fortunate to have this man at the top of our football pyramid ... he is the biggest reason i have hope for our future ...

    [B]WOODY JOHNSON[/B]

    ... fault him for his motives if you like, but he opened up his bankvault and told mikey t ... have at it ...

    [B]BILL COWHER[/B]

    ... would definitely be an upgrade ... who cares what the cost ... woody has money ...

    ... parcells would be the dream candidate ... cowher definitely near the top of the list ...


    [B]CHAD PENNINGTON AND BILL BELICHICK[/B]

    ... chad deserves the accolades he has received this year ... good for him ... his performance in the playoffs should mirror what he did with us ... good, but not great ... do not expect him to lead his team to a championship ...

    [QUOTE]
    final thought ... we've been down this road before. We can only pray and hope that it doesn't lead us back right to where we are today. Beaten, heartbroken and starting over all over again.[/QUOTE]

    ... agreed ...
    ... as with the favre gamble ... mike t gamble on mangini ... the gamble did not pay enough dividends ... the coaching position, as with the qb position, need someone better than decent to win a championship ... it's nice to see that fact recognize and acted upon rather than staying the course ...

    ... the defensive strategy was the major cause of our collapse ... putting no pressure on opposing qb's, giving up short passes all day long, missed tackles ... it was painful to watch ... i don't mind taking a risk with our offensive and defensive philosophies ... i couldn't stand watching the talent already on this team as well as the horses brought in this season being being wasted as they were ... as many times before this franchise knows how to slowly steal little parts of my soul and my heart ... will i never learn??? ...



    l_j_r
    Last edited by ljr@work; 12-30-2008 at 09:07 AM.

  13. #13
    I still have hope for Clemens though. ...give me one indication he isn't ready to play. ...CLEMENS 2009

  14. #14
    All League
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    [QUOTE=ChadOwnsBrady;2942470]Beerfish, please name a game that Brett Favre won. I'm not even asking you to name a game that Pennington couldn't win, just name a damn game that Favre won for us.[/QUOTE]

    arizona, kc, and the first buff game.

  15. #15
    superb post YJ...thanks for stopping by

    Only thing I'd add is I hated the Favre move from the off but bought into it as the season progressed and we started to look very good on offense,Tannenbaum has to take heat for failing to get something for Chad.

    The problem for Mangini is the Favre move made this a SB run season when I don't believe he felt the programme was ready for that yet.This team is way better off as a franchise post Eric Mangini than it was before he arrived.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=ljr@work;2942570]...

    [B]MIKE TANNENBAUM[/B]

    ... mike t deserves the blame for the kendall fiasco a year ago ... if he had a replacement on board before this happened then let kendall go ... if not, suck it up ... kendall had the bargaining power ... mike t should have accepted that fact & paid him his money ...

    ... mike t deserves credit for d-brick, not blame ... cutler would not have done anything without an improvement in the travesty that we called an offensive line at that time ... cutler would have spent most of him time on his back, if not IR ...

    ... mike's moves in the last couple of drafts have been exceptional ... the move up for revis was monumental and has landed us that highly sought after shutdown cb for years to come... his landing the free agents targeted this season was awesome ...

    ... the strategy and moves he made to get favre deserve huge props ... i'm sure we were last, if not non-existent on teams favre was hoping to play for ... selling the packers first and favre second on even coming to ny to play for us was a coup of the highest degree ... he rolled the dice and took a gamble on favre ... it came up snake eyes, but this man is not meek ... he is not afraid of risk ... he is not locked to inside the box thinking ... he thinks quickly on his feet during the draft ... he sees opportunity where others don't ... has the sack to move on that opportunity ... and strikes immediately ...

    ... we are very, very fortunate to have this man at the top of our football pyramid ... he is the biggest reason i have hope for our future ...

    l_j_r[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely agree....Isn't it wonderful to sit here and think what the team COULD have been like after the fact? Ferguson was HIGHLY, HIGHLY touted coming out of school, and was talked about for a YEAR on this board before he was eligible.

    You can never know how these kids will turn out. All in all, Tanny has done an exceptional job bringing the guys in here. The only problem I have was what appeared as an over-compensation for no free agents last year.

    And this WR has to stop. Yes, we could use another one. But to go on about we need a burner on this team....we have one. Does anyone remember how Herm did not play Cotchery? Well, what did he turn into? I think Clowney can be a great player, and Keller is going to be a staple at TE. We have some depth, but granted we could use a good receiver....but not a 1st round pick like everyone keeps talking about here.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=NewYorkSackExchange;2942516]Mangini : Any coach that goes 0-4 on the West Coast must be fired.
    Favre: give the guy some WR's. ...Coles is done. Cotch is at best a 3-4 WR.
    I do not blame Favre for the collaspe. ...blame the O-line and WR. He was trying to make up for that and make some plays happen.
    Tanny: hmmmm. ....so far, he has brought in some promising players. Got ride of Mangini rather quickly :)

    Pennington: Think what he could have been if he wasn't a Jet for so long.
    I am happy for him. ...however, I would be more excited he if was taking the Vikings to the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

    +1 Spot on.

  18. #18
    Eric Mangini simply failed to get the most out of his players. Other than winning isn't that the main job of a head coach. Did Leon Washington get enough touches? Did we use Thomas Jones on 3d and 4th downs with a yard to go? Where in the world did Dustin Keller go? Were Pace and Thomas given opportunities to pressure th QB?

    Really, other than the win in Tennessee, did the Jets have any other impressive wins.? They were luck to win in Foxboro and barely beat a lot of bad teams. One impressive win is meaningless. Heck, the 4-12 Jets of last year beat the Steelers with KC at QB. Can you point to any game other than Tennessee where the Jets played well for 4 quarters? No. That is a failure of coaching. The 8-3 record was a mirage which seemed all too real on the heals of the Jets one and only well played 4 qtrs of footbal in Tennessee coming of 10 days of rest.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Jason423;2942522 The Jets should have named Chad starter in June to increase his value. The team was never putting Clemens in there, but they wanted to put out this fake competition to make the super anti-Chad people be quiet about Clemens. He and Eric already helped wreck his value by what went on in 2007. It ended up costing the team a draft pick and Chad was as energized on Sunday as he was in the 2002 finale against the Packers.
    [/QUOTE]

    A lot of people believe this but there is no evidence of this, and in fact everything pointed to the Jets wanting Clemens to be the starter. If anyone was going to be named starter in the off-season it would have been Kellen. Last year, naming Chad starter blew up in the team's face. The good year Chad has had this year (in an offense 100% tailored to cover up his weaknesses and only use his strengths- seam routes and check downs) makes people forget how truly horrendous Chad was the year before. There was no reason to believe anything other than Chad was done. In hindsight, this was partially the CS fault as they asked Chad to do a lot of things in the offense he just could not do. But the Jets were NEVER going to start Chad again. A lot of fans and media got carried away with Chad throwing less TC interceptions, but it did not matter. When Clemens failed to distinguish himself, and before Ratliff did, the Jets felt they needed to upgrade at QB, because THEY WERE NEVER GOING TO START CHAD AGAIN.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=YJF;2942265]Where do I start? There is so much here to cover. I haven't chimed in yet on any of these subjects. Each subject kind of ties in to the other. Brace yourself, This is going to be a long post.

    [B]ERIC MANGINI[/B]

    Eric Mangini is the fall guy for The Jets crashing and burning in 2008. The majority of the fans and media didn't want him back. Does he deserve all the blame? NO but he was the head coach. The buck stops with him.

    Was he a fraud or in over his head?.... I don't think so. Eric didn't become stupid overnight. He wasn't an idiot after the team beat Belichick and The Pats in New England or The undefeated Titans on the road.

    Where did it all go wrong for him?... The Jets late season collapse falls directly on his door step. It was like the perfect storm. The team went into a major slump and Eric couldn't get the team out of the slide. That falls on him. He tried but he didn't do it. What sealed his fate this year was his decisions in Seattle. He went the conservative route early, passed on a Feely kick and then gambled late on a 4th down on his own 19. The results of his decisions were poor in that game. That was the worst coached game of his 3 year jet career. Ultimately, That game sealed his fate.

    The biggest problem with Eric Mangini is that he wasn't the type of head coach that could inspire or galvanize a franchise. Eric is not a rah rah or motivational speaker type. He's more like a teacher. He's not a cheerleader or a drill seargent type.

    I still believe that Eric Mangini is a very good coach. He's smart and extremely hard working. He came in here as a rookie head coach taking over a 4 win team. He overacheived in year one, beat The Pats, won 10 games and made the playoffs. In year two, The front office short changed him with virtually no roster upgrades. The team took a step back and went 4 and 12.

    In year 3, The front office stepped up, got him some horses for the race and the team was in prime position to be a major contender before falling off course and crashing down the stretch. The team fell short of expectations and Eric gets a good portion of the blame but remember where the team was after 11 games. Mangini helped get the team there.

    While most Jets fans are elated that someone got killed for this year's collapse. I am sad to see Eric Mangini go. I had high hopes for him. I really wanted The Jets to get a young smart coach that could last them for 12 to 15 years. I really thought that Eric was that guy. I love his approach and his work ethic. Ultimately, His run was cut short and it didn't end nicely and it's a shame in my book. There was one main culprit for Mangini's demise as Jets head coach and that is............

    [B]BRETT FAVRE[/B]

    Brett Favre was awful late in the season and he's one of the major reasons that The Jets went 1 and 4 down the stretch. He's one of the major reasons why Eric Mangini is no longer the coach. Brett played poorly and it had nothing to do with coaching. He made poor decision after poor decision with the football. He was a mess down the stretch. He cost the Jets mightily. The so called saviour and hero was anything but. I respect him mightily and enjoy his enthusiasm and leadership but he's old and breaking down. The Jets tried to swing for the fences and hit a home run with Favre and ultimately, They struck out. Will he come back? I doubt it. If he does, Why should I be excited about it? Kellen Clemens could have thrown 22 interceptions just as easily. Mike Tannenbaum pulled all the strings to get Favre and it was a gamble that didn't pay off..........

    [B]MIKE TANNENBAUM[/B]

    Mr. T deserves more heat than he is getting. He's got alot of power right now with The Jets. He's the second most powerful man in The entire Jets operation. I like Tannenbaum as a deal maker but he's screwed up alot as Jets GM in his first 3 years on the job. In year two, He's directly to blame for The Jets 4 and 12 finish. The Kendall situation and the way, He handled the free agent market. Tannenbaum drafted D'Brick instead of Cutler and he's had other mistakes. It hurt Tannenbaum to fire the guy he pushed for as head coach in Mangini. Tannenbaum and Mangini are and maybe now "were" best friends but it's all about self preservation. Tanny has the owner's ear and trust. So he's safe for now. The biggest faux pas by Mr. T was not trading Chad Pennington. He instead released him freely and allowed him to burn the Jets franchise. The failure of Favre falls on Mike. He took the risk and failed but hey, Tanny doesn't need Mangini, He's got the owner on his side.

    [B]WOODY JOHNSON[/B]

    Woody is all about the consumer right now and the team image. He loves Favre and wants him back because it gives the team prestige. Woody canned Mangini because it's what the consumer wants. It's all about public perception and PSL's. It's great to have an owner that is interested in what the fan base wants but just because the fan base wants something. It doesn't make it right. That press conference monday morning was very telling in my book. It will be interesting to see what Woody does with the head coaching position. It's clear to me that he wants a new face to the franchise. A new leader to sell to the fan base.

    [B]BILL COWHER[/B]

    The Jets are going to try and get him to come here. Interesting tidbit that Woody doesn't want his new head coach to assume the GM role. Tannenbaum is his guy, Would that be the deciding factor in whether Cowher becomes the new leader of the Jets?.... It could be. I respect Bill Cowher as a head coach and he would be a fit because of his credibility and schematically from a 3-4 standpoint but Do The Jets have the right pieces in place to entice him to come here? I don't know. The owner has the money to get it done but alot has to be set in place for him to cut short his retirement and come to New York. I am not as gung ho about him coming here as other Jets fans are. What are the other options? The Jets already had an unproven head coach that was trying to prove himself here. He's gone now. Do The Jets really need to go down the same road again?... The Jets need a proven winner and the theory is that The Jets are a win now team. The Jets with Favre are a Win Yesterday team.

    [B]CHAD PENNINGTON AND BILL BELICHICK[/B]

    These are the two big winners in the Jets collapse and Mangini firing. Let's start with Pennington. In a strange way, I am happy for Chad Pennington. The Jets fans disregarded and disrespected him. He was always a good quarterback that was never great for The Jets but he was treated by many as a player that was a bum. He was far from that and he proved it this year. Jets fans and Pennington haters are eating some massive crow now. I hate The Fish and I wish he wasn't on that team but Pennington deserves all the good that has come to him. As for Belichick, In a strange way, the only good that came out of The 2008 Jets season was the Jets defeating his team in New England. That Jets win prevented the Pats from making the playoffs. Belichick's consolation prize is that he was right. His prized pupil, Eric Mangini should have listened to him and should have never taken the Jets job. That's the way, Bill Belichick probably feels right now. The Jets would have been better off with Pennington instead of Favre and Mangini would have been better off staying with Belichick than coming to the Jets. Call it Karma if you like but The Jets betrayed Pennington and Chad got revenge. Mangini betrayed Belichick only to have his best friend, Tannenbaum betray him. Both Pennington and Belichick ended up on the winning side of all of this.

    [B]FINAL THOUGHTS[/B]

    The Jets are starting over all over again. We have all as Jets fans been down this road before. We can only pray and hope that it doesn't lead us back right to where we are today. Beaten, heartbroken and starting over all over again.[/QUOTE]

    Good, thoughtful post. With so much hatred and bitterness on this forum, your take is a breath of fresh air!

    Don't worry about Mangini, though. He'll eventually get another HC gig, and it will be very interesting to see how he does.

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