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Thread: Spagnuola? Really?

  1. #1
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    Spagnuola? Really?

    Why would we want Spagnuola? His defensive philosophy is pretty basic:

    Have four of the best defensive linemen in the league and have them beat the opponents o-line consistently without having to blitz.

    Brilliant. How does that translate to the Jets? What "schemes" does he bring to the Jets? Did he DRAFT any of those Front 4 studs hes had to work with?
    Is he going to be able to run "His aggressive system" with Kris Jenkins and a collection of 3-4 Linebackers and nobodies like BT and Mike Devito?

    Spagnuola is just another knee-jerk reaction to a decent coordinator on a team that won a SB last year based on FO/Drafting and a disciplinarian head coach who had a team catch all the right breaks at the right time.

    I don't think Spag brings anything but another year of "transition", another year or two of "adjustments" and getting the "right parts for the systems".

    It makes no sense.

    Spagnuola would be another mistake. Think about it, the Jets have now had THREE former DC/Assistants as Head Coaches, guys with ZERO Head COaching experience in Al Groh, Herm Edwards, and Mangini with nothing to show for it but EIGHT YEARS of Frustration and "Jelling...fitting the pieces together".

    Do we want to make it four in a row?

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2943610]Why would we want Spagnuola? His defensive philosophy is pretty basic:

    Have four of the best defensive linemen in the league and have them beat the opponents o-line consistently without having to blitz.

    Brilliant. How does that translate to the Jets? What "schemes" does he bring to the Jets? Did he DRAFT any of those Front 4 studs hes had to work with?
    Is he going to be able to run "His aggressive system" with Kris Jenkins and a collection of 3-4 Linebackers and nobodies like BT and Mike Devito?

    Spagnuola is just another knee-jerk reaction to a decent coordinator on a team that won a SB last year based on FO/Drafting and a disciplinarian head coach who had a team catch all the right breaks at the right time.

    I don't think Spag brings anything but another year of "transition", another year or two of "adjustments" and getting the "right parts for the systems".

    It makes no sense.

    Spagnuola would be another mistake. Think about it, the Jets have now had THREE former DC/Assistants as Head Coaches, guys with ZERO Head COaching experience in Al Groh, Herm Edwards, and Mangini with nothing to show for it but EIGHT YEARS of Frustration and "Jelling...fitting the pieces together".

    Do we want to make it four in a row?[/QUOTE]

    Just curious, how did the Giants get the "four best defensive lineman in the league?" I don't remember the Giants having any high picks that they used on D lineman. Maybe, just maybe this guy knows how to teach/coach/lead? FWIW, Al Groh was a LB coach when he was hired. Herm was NEVER a Coordinator, and Mangini had one year experience running a system that had been put in place years before he was promoted.

    Do a little more research before you go clamoring about a guy that has the potential to be as good as John Fox or better.

  3. #3
    Justin Tuck was the only guy on that line this year and they still had over 40+ sacks..

  4. #4
    Spagnuolo is a great defensive coach. Ask any Giants fan and they'll tell you they're greatest offseason fear is losing him. I think he'd do a fine job, but Cowher is still the dream choice....

  5. #5
    Giants d-line..

    Jay Aldford-3rd round pick
    Justin Tuck-3rd rd pick
    Fred Robbins-4th rd pick(vikes)
    Barry Cofield-4th rd pick
    Mathias Kiwanuka-1st rd pick(32nd)
    Osi Umenyiora-2nd rd,didn't play this year

    so Kiwanuka is the only 1st rd pick and Tuck is the only "star"that played this year.

  6. #6
    He puts the guys in the right position to make plays. Thats what a good coach does. Sutton that dumbass didn't do that.
    Besides don't you think that Spags might have something to do with the fact that suddenly the Giants have such a good defense with so many good players? You act like the defense makes him look so good. I think its the exact opposite. A guy like Cofield would be worthless in our defense. We have a guy like that (Mosley) but our dumbass coordinator has no clue how to make use of them. You could also compare Kiwanuka to Gholston. Rhodes could be a DPOY candidate if he played for the Ravens or the Giants. But on this team, with this idiot looking coordinator he'll never even get to the Pro Bowl. Spag knows how to utilize his players, he'll allow them to make plays. Mangini is the opposite with his 3-4 cancer bull****.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=pcola;2943634]Just curious, how did the Giants get the "four best defensive lineman in the league?" I don't remember the Giants having any high picks that they used on D lineman. Maybe, just maybe this guy knows how to teach/coach/lead? FWIW, Al Groh was a LB coach when he was hired. Herm was NEVER a Coordinator, and Mangini had one year experience running a system that had been put in place years before he was promoted.

    Do a little more research before you go clamoring about a guy that has the potential to be as good as John Fox or better.[/QUOTE]

    How long has Spagnuola been a DC? Two whole years? ANd last year, when the Giants won the Superbowl and Spagnuola became this Hot "young" HC prospect, what was the defensive philosophy that got him noticed? Was there an ingenious defensive gameplan? Was there an innovative way that defense was shutting offenses down? Was there a different personnel alignment used that total confused QBs and O-linemen?

    No. It was Umenyora, Strahan, Tuck, and their HIGH QUALITY D-Line depth that were drafted by the Giants EXCELLENT Front Office and Scouting Departments simply being able to beat opposing O-Lines, freeing up the LBs and secondary to flow to the ball and shut down passing lanes.

    Has Spagnuola ever had to run a defense with inferior talent and "Coach 'em up" to be successful? Has he ever had to devise schemes or different alignmnents to compensate for a weak unit? No. He has had superior talent given to him by a good FO to work with. How does that translate to him being a HC, particularly for the Jets?

    Just because someone has had some success as a Coordinator on a successful, ESTABLISHED team with a strong FO/HC and great talent doesn't mean he'll make a good HC. On the contrary.

    I think Spagnuola is highly overrated, and before people start "CLAMORING" for a HC with as much upside as Gregg Williams or Cam Cameron, or Rod Marinelli, they should stop and think about what hes really done.

  8. #8
    You lose all credibility when you call him Spagnuola. Get your names right before you start throwing this bull. Spagnuol[B]o[/B] is the 2nd best if not the best candidate for the job. Point blank.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2943610]Why would we want Spagnuola? His defensive philosophy is pretty basic:

    Have four of the best defensive linemen in the league and have them beat the opponents o-line consistently without having to blitz.

    Brilliant. How does that translate to the Jets? What "schemes" does he bring to the Jets? Did he DRAFT any of those Front 4 studs hes had to work with?
    Is he going to be able to run "His aggressive system" with Kris Jenkins and a collection of 3-4 Linebackers and nobodies like BT and Mike Devito?

    Spagnuola is just another knee-jerk reaction to a decent coordinator on a team that won a SB last year based on FO/Drafting and a disciplinarian head coach who had a team catch all the right breaks at the right time.

    I don't think Spag brings anything but another year of "transition", another year or two of "adjustments" and getting the "right parts for the systems".

    It makes no sense.

    Spagnuola would be another mistake. Think about it, the Jets have now had THREE former DC/Assistants as Head Coaches, guys with ZERO Head COaching experience in Al Groh, Herm Edwards, and Mangini with nothing to show for it but EIGHT YEARS of Frustration and "Jelling...fitting the pieces together".

    Do we want to make it four in a row?[/QUOTE]

    Right ON!. See My Sig!!

  10. #10
    Honestly, I'm not high on Spagnuolo either. There's no reason to rush him into a head coaching job if he's not ready for it (and who's to say he is?).

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=tedtedthefootballhead;2943697]Right ON!. See My Sig!![/QUOTE]

    Harbaugh (Playoffs)
    Sparano (Playoffs)
    Smith (Playoffs)
    Zorn (close to making the playoffs)

    Yup. Please don't pick up a rookie headcoach. It doesnt work out.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=jetsfan110;2943693]You lose all credibility when you call him Spagnuola. Get your names right before you start throwing this bull. Spagnuol[B]o[/B] is the 2nd best if not the best candidate for the job. Point blank.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I lose all credibility because I spelled his vowel-filled name wrong....because NOBODY aroung here EVER misspells names....examples I've seen on this board but wouldn't cry about because we know who they meant.

    Kellen Clement

    Victor Golson

    Tony Soprano

    Laverneus Coles

    Jerrico Cochery

    Chancey Stuckey

    Etc. Etc...

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2943748]Yeah, I lose all credibility because I spelled his vowel-filled name wrong....because NOBODY aroung here EVER misspells names....examples I've seen on this board but wouldn't cry about because we know who they meant.

    Kellen Clement

    Victor Golson

    Tony Soprano

    Laverneus Coles

    Jerrico Cochery

    Chancey Stuckey

    Etc. Etc...[/QUOTE]

    lol, that's so accurate. No one can spell for **** around here.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2943748]Yeah, I lose all credibility because I spelled his vowel-filled name wrong....because NOBODY aroung here EVER misspells names....examples I've seen on this board but wouldn't cry about because we know who they meant.

    Kellen Clement

    Victor Golson

    Tony Soprano

    Laverneus Coles

    Jerrico Cochery

    Chancey Stuckey

    Etc. Etc...[/QUOTE]

    Fair assessment, but what I meant was the fact that it seems that if you can't spell his name right, you obviously haven't done your due diligence in some research on the guy...maybe you should check, you could be impressed, just saying.:cool:

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2943688]How long has Spagnuola been a DC? Two whole years? ANd last year, when the Giants won the Superbowl and Spagnuola became this Hot "young" HC prospect, what was the defensive philosophy that got him noticed? Was there an ingenious defensive gameplan? Was there an innovative way that defense was shutting offenses down? Was there a different personnel alignment used that total confused QBs and O-linemen?

    No. It was Umenyora, Strahan, Tuck, and their HIGH QUALITY D-Line depth that were drafted by the Giants EXCELLENT Front Office and Scouting Departments simply being able to beat opposing O-Lines, freeing up the LBs and secondary to flow to the ball and shut down passing lanes.

    Has Spagnuola ever had to run a defense with inferior talent and "Coach 'em up" to be successful? Has he ever had to devise schemes or different alignmnents to compensate for a weak unit? No. He has had superior talent given to him by a good FO to work with. How does that translate to him being a HC, particularly for the Jets?

    Just because someone has had some success as a Coordinator on a successful, ESTABLISHED team with a strong FO/HC and great talent doesn't mean he'll make a good HC. On the contrary.

    I think Spagnuola is highly overrated, and before people start "CLAMORING" for a HC with as much upside as Gregg Williams or Cam Cameron, or Rod Marinelli, they should stop and think about what hes really done.[/QUOTE]

    Oh OK. So what you are saying is that the NYGs scounting department is the reason the Giants have had the most dominating D Line in the NFL the past couple of seasons. Surely, the Jets scounting department is in the same league as the Giants. Unfotunately, our coaching the young kids has been lacking ever since Bill left. The Giants are able to turn late first/ early second DAY picks into superstars, and we can't find a defensive lineman at the top of the draft. (Robertson, Gholston, Thomas - who was drafted to rush the passer).

    I understand what you are saying, the Jets have not had any luck with a young coach. That may be true only because of the market we are in, the pressure not only in our division, but also with a multiple Super Bowl winning team sharing our building. So yes a veteran guy may have a higher probability of success here, but your original post concerning Spags was off base and had no support what so ever. If Spags goes to Cle, Det, or KC, and has the opportunity to work for a good GM and surround himself with good coaches, he will be a fantastic HC in this league.

    Mangini had less expereience, less say in his defense as an assistant, and did not have a great DC when he got the HC job. In addition, I don't think he had the personality for our fan base. We are fans of the team, the players, and the coach. That is probably why his popularity fell so quickly.

  16. #16
    spelling aside, this is a great thread and it highlights how teams can make bad decisions on HCs. Heck, the jets just did that with mangini. just goes to show you, sometimes the apple falls far from the tree. weis and crennel also stunk. it's clear that even the offense was largely BB's genius.

    i think the jets can't take another chance on a DC or OC who may or may not have been the reason for his team's success. i think they need to consider head coaching experience as well. they've struck out on 3 non-HCs in a row and while it's possible to get it right, shame on them if they mess it up a 4th time.

  17. #17
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    This statement is totally wrong. Why because its a 4-3 system, all of a sudden its basic... Spag puts together a very good and complex scheme.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2943610]Why would we want Spagnuola? His defensive philosophy is pretty basic:

    Have four of the best defensive linemen in the league and have them beat the opponents o-line consistently without having to blitz.

    Brilliant. How does that translate to the Jets? What "schemes" does he bring to the Jets? Did he DRAFT any of those Front 4 studs hes had to work with?
    Is he going to be able to run "His aggressive system" with Kris Jenkins and a collection of 3-4 Linebackers and nobodies like BT and Mike Devito?

    Spagnuola is just another knee-jerk reaction to a decent coordinator on a team that won a SB last year based on FO/Drafting and a disciplinarian head coach who had a team catch all the right breaks at the right time.

    I don't think Spag brings anything but another year of "transition", another year or two of "adjustments" and getting the "right parts for the systems".

    It makes no sense.

    Spagnuola would be another mistake. Think about it, the Jets have now had THREE former DC/Assistants as Head Coaches, guys with ZERO Head COaching experience in Al Groh, Herm Edwards, and Mangini with nothing to show for it but EIGHT YEARS of Frustration and "Jelling...fitting the pieces together".

    Do we want to make it four in a row?[/QUOTE]

    Defensive planning to a degree is more subtle in the 4-3. While in 3-4 you have the obvious shifts and blitzes coming from totally different LBs than on the last play, the 4-3 relies on stunts and the actual DL moving in different direction. So Spag does in fact scheme very well just in a way that is not as apparent to us when watching the games on TV. Also like many have already mentioned it takes a great coach to turn all that talent into actual production on the field. I mean his one elite player, Tuck, isn't even a first round draft pick. So I understand where you are coming from but you use argument for just about any coach. What has Tony Dungy really done, I mean he has had Peyton Manning and previously the Tampa Bay defense? I can keep going but I think you get my point.

    P.S. I actually want Rex Ryan over Spag so I am kinda neutral on this topic in case you are wondering.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=pcola;2943634]Just curious, how did the Giants get the "four best defensive lineman in the league?" .[/QUOTE]
    Tuck (3rd), Uminyera (2nd) & Kiwanuka (1st) were all highly regarded coming out of college and had 1st round potential. The only reason J. Tuck slipped to the 3rd was because of an injury he suffered in his senior season. Otherwise the Nortre Dame all time sack leader would've been a sure fire 1st rounder.
    The thread starter makes a valid point. The Giants D-Line is stacked and could make any D.C look like a genius.
    I don't want another Romeo Crennel situation.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2943688]How long has Spagnuola been a DC? Two whole years? ANd last year, when the Giants won the Superbowl and Spagnuola became this Hot "young" HC prospect, what was the defensive philosophy that got him noticed? Was there an ingenious defensive gameplan? Was there an innovative way that defense was shutting offenses down? Was there a different personnel alignment used that total confused QBs and O-linemen?

    No. It was Umenyora, Strahan, Tuck, and their HIGH QUALITY D-Line depth that were drafted by the Giants EXCELLENT Front Office and Scouting Departments simply being able to beat opposing O-Lines, freeing up the LBs and secondary to flow to the ball and shut down passing lanes.

    Has Spagnuola ever had to run a defense with inferior talent and "Coach 'em up" to be successful? Has he ever had to devise schemes or different alignmnents to compensate for a weak unit? No. He has had superior talent given to him by a good FO to work with. How does that translate to him being a HC, particularly for the Jets?

    Just because someone has had some success as a Coordinator on a successful, ESTABLISHED team with a strong FO/HC and great talent doesn't mean he'll make a good HC. On the contrary.

    I think Spagnuola is highly overrated, and before people start "CLAMORING" for a HC with as much upside as Gregg Williams or Cam Cameron, or Rod Marinelli, they should stop and think about what hes really done.[/QUOTE]
    Great freaken post! Giants have a super-talented D-line. Spags get way too much credit.

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