Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: 3-4 ILBs and DEs in the 2nd round and further

  1. #1

    3-4 ILBs and DEs in the 2nd round and further

    [B][U]Linebackers[/U][/B]

    Considering that our chances of landing a stud 3-4 linebacker like Aaron Curry, Rey Maualuga, or James Laurinaitis are fairly low our new head coach may have to dig deeper into the draft to get us a suitable replacement for Barton. Considering the cost of UFAs like Bart Scott at this position and the age of most of the rest this organization should consider going after an athletic inside linebacker with a high ceiling for success in the NFL. The linebacker should be anywhere from 6'2 to 6'4 in height and weigh in the 240-260 range; they don't have to be lock down cover linebackers but we need a run stopper to compliment Harris. The draftiks on this board can probably narrow down this list and pinpoint the best prospects better than I can, but here are some options to start:

    [B]Worrell Williams (California) 6'2, 242 lbs.[/B]
    40 time: 4.6-4.8 range
    Projected round: 5th

    Had some tackles for losses, a few sacks, and 6 PBUs this season; don't know much about him otherwise.

    [B]Frantz Joseph (Florida-Atlantic) 6'2, 240 lbs. [/B]
    40 time: 4.6-4.7 range
    Projected round: 6th-7th
    Compares to: David Harris
    [url]http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26901&page=2[/url]
    [QUOTE]Up until this point (1/17/09), this kid is clearly NOT getting the credit he deserves. Many people are knocking his 40 time & claim his speed is a detriment. *I'VE SEEN HIM ELECTRICALLY TIMED OVER THE PASSED 2 WEEKS (HE'S WORKING AT TEST FITNESS IN NJ W/ ONE OF THE TOP STRENGTH & CONDITIONING SPECIALISTS IN THE COUNTRY, SKIP FULLER) - HE IS CONSISTENTLY IN THE HIGH 4.6 RANGE. These results rank amongst the top 20% of all ILB's projected in this draft. Granted, his technique shedding blocks & reading offenses may be a bit "green", however that is very teachable & this kid is COACHABLE! His drive, "motor", and natural talent rank off the charts! Those qualities (plus, his better-than given credit for, speed) are the reasons why he was the LEADING TACKLER IN THE NATION! Has anybody taken the time yet to truly get to know this kid's character? Are you guys aware of how this kid helped his mother throughout his life (in the absence of a father)? I know for a FACT, that every team in the NFL should want to have as many "Frantz Joseph(s)" on their roster, as possible. He clearly has the "stuff" to command a draft position much higher than Round 5!?!? With the proper guidance (LB technique, film study, offense recognition, etc) & continued hard work from the Strength-Conditioning-Speed-Agility standpoint, this kid can absolutely be an All-Pro by season 3 or 4. 150 tackles in a season (regardless of the league) does NOT come by accident. This kid is a gem & he'll represent any NFL squad (ON & OFF the filed) with TOP-NOTCH VALUE.[/QUOTE]

    There's a post from the draft forums from a scout; Joseph transferred from Boston College due to family reasons but has been nothing short of monstrous for UFA up to this point. From what I've read and seen this guy can play and play hard, look for the Steelers to swipe him in the later rounds of the draft and make him into a star.

    [B]Jasper Brinkley (South Carolina) 6'2, 264 lbs.[/B]
    40 time: 4.74
    Projected round: 7th, UFA
    Compares to: Pepper Johnson

    This guy is not a sideline to sideline player, but to be honest with you it's been a long time since I've seen a linebacker take on offensive tackles as well as Brinkley does. This guy will get torched in coverage but no one will run on this defense if he's in there.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [B][U]Defensive Ends[/U][/B]

    [B]Tyson Jackson (LSU) 6'5, 295 lbs.[/B]
    40 time: 4.8-5 range
    Projected round: Mid-1st-Early 2nd
    Compares to: Shaun Ellis (without the pass rushing moves), Marcus Spears

    This is wishful thinking on my part, as Jackson is ranked at the top of the list for 34 ends and could very well be taken by a 4-3 team interested in moving him to a DT spot. Jackson is as good a run stuffer as they come and has shown flashes of pass rushing ability. Some knocks on his play include his limited pass rushing moves and his motor; other than that he has the bulk, long arms, and physical strength to hold up in the NFL and could replace Ellis or Coleman if we took him.

    [B]Evander Hood (Missouri) 6'4, 298 lbs.[/B]
    40 time: 4.9-5.1 range
    Projected round: 2nd
    Compares to: Jay Ratliff

    Hood is a DT who would convert to the 34 end position, he is incredibly powerful at the point of attack and can play multiple positions on the defensive line if we needed him to. Some knocks on Hood are his average production and uninspiring play, but if we want a "hold the fort" run stopping type of end at a reasonable price then Hood may be our man. Remember Jenkins was a 2nd round draft pick so much of this over-analyzation is completely unwarranted considering the positives that come with drafting a versatile player like Hood. Hood has had two straight 5 sack seasons and has had 15 tackles for a loss in that time.

    [B]Fili Moala (USC) 6'5, 295 lbs.[/B]
    40 time: 4.9-5.2 range
    Projected round: 2nd-3rd
    Compares to: Kenyon Coleman

    Moala is a good defensive tackle, but he isn't as solid against the run as the first two are and he has been said to disappear frequently during games. Some positives are that even though his strength isn't where it should be, that he has the perfect frame to bulk up on and he has a very high ceiling even though he's been over hyped. For what it's worth he's also Haloti Ngata's cousin.

    Some other prospects:
    [B]Ricky Jean-Francois (LSU) 6'3, 290 lbs.[/B] (Incredibly fast and powerful, but may not command the double team at the NFL level; 3rd rounder)
    [B]Dorrell Scott (Clemson) 6'4, 310 lbs.[/B] (A powerful, massive player who will command double teams if he's coached properly; 4th rounder)
    [B]Darryl Richard (Georgia Tech) 6'4, 290lbs.[/B] (Project player, average to below average quickness; 6th rounder)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just comparing the two positions it's pretty clear that the drop off in talent at the linebacker spot is huge compared to the drop off at the defensive end spot. That doesn't mean that mid to lower round ILBs here won't excel at the next level eventually (James Harrison was a UDFA) just that most of them will not be effective as starters right out of the gates like Rey, Curry, or Laurinaitis will. And considering that we pick right in the middle of the first round there is a chance that one of the "big three" linebackers could fall to us, and if they do we can't hesitate in grabbing one of them.
    Last edited by XingDaorong; 01-24-2009 at 12:47 AM.

  2. #2
    my favorite de is ricky jean francois he has a injury history. he's skipping LSU because of academics but the kid can play. plus he can be had in the 4th round and provide good value.

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogr1T1dyovg[/url]


    ricky jean is # 90 and next to him is # 93 tyson jackson.

    i'd rather have ricky jean.:D

    he played mostly on one leg this year and i still pick him over Jackson.
    Last edited by hollywoodjet; 01-24-2009 at 12:04 AM.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=hollywoodjet;2985051]my favorite de is ricky jean francois he has a injury history. he's skipping LSU because of academics but the kid can play. plus he can be had in the 4th round and provide good value.

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogr1T1dyovg[/url]


    ricky jean is # 90 and next to him is # 93 tyson jackson.

    i'd rather have ricky jean.:D

    he played mostly on one leg this year and i still pick him over Jackson.[/QUOTE]

    Jackson has to be doing something right to be at the top of Mayock's draft list, and those clips only showed about 5 or 6 snaps, who's to say that Jackson isn't dominating in the other 90% we don't see? :rolleyes:

    Either way Francois impressed the hell out of me with his speed and how well he can anticipate the snap count. A player like that could help out this new defense immeasurably, and if he's there in the 3rd round then let's hope Tanny gets him. If Francois has the frame to bulk up on he would make one hell of a pass rushing nose tackle, in the same way Jay Ratliff is. But I would take "Ziggy" Hood over Francois solely for his versatility and production, and like our new DC said today the new defense is not going to be the traditional 3-4. The new defense will adapt to confuse opposing offenses and having a player like Hood who can rotate along the line with immediate success would help us (and Jenkins out) more than any other player that will be available.

  4. #4
    i've watched 7 or 8 Lsu games the last two years. other than dorsey . ricky jean has stood out. jackson i've concentrated on watching because he's been so highly touted since his sophmore season i don't see it. he has all the measurables but he has never dominated a game i've seen.

    ziggy i'll jump on in the second round but he loves to do alot of spin moves to do his pass rush and i'm not so sure how well that translates in a 3man front . where you have to take on double team blocks.

    they called ziggy the top this week in mobile.LOL
    Last edited by hollywoodjet; 01-24-2009 at 12:31 AM.

  5. #5
    I think Jackson would give you a defensive end in a 3-4 and then give you the ability to plug him in at end in a 46 or a 4-3 as well....Ryan likes to change his front all the time so versatility is imperative.

    Evander Hood and Fili Moala are 4-3 defensive tackles which you could also use by Shaun Ellis is 31 years old.

  6. #6
    worrell williams, Brinley, and Richard ive all been watching carefuly...id take anyone of them in the later rounds

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=hollywoodjet;2985071]i've watched 7 or 8 Lsu games the last two years. other than dorsey . ricky jean has stood out. jackson i've concentrated on watching because he's been so highly touted since his sophmore season i don't see it. he has all the measurables but he has never dominated a game i've seen.

    ziggy i'll jump on in the second round but he loves to do alot of spin moves to do his pass rush and i'm not so sure how well that translates in a 3man front . where you have to take on double team blocks.

    they called ziggy the top this week in mobile.LOL[/QUOTE]

    The thing about Francois is that the guy is explosive right off of the snap, is in excellent physical shape, and pursues very well; but let's be honest, his production has not been close to the level of talent he has for whatever reason. I know he's injury prone, but other than that what is driving down his draft stock?

    As for Hood you have to look at what Ratliff (his comparison), a 7th rounder from Auburn in 2005, has done with the Cowboys. The guy is 6'4 298 lbs., fairly undersized for a 3-4 nose tackle, but he draws double teams not because of his size but because of how many pass rushing moves he has and because of his great speed. When you think about it 7.5 sacks for a 3-4 nose tackle is incredible, and it explains why he's in the Pro-Bowl this year; imo if you watch Hood the guy can get after the quarterback and can produce in any defensive position or assignment he's given. In addition to that Hood is a defensive leader and a player who has been very receptive towards and benefited by coaching. Ideally we could get both Francois and Hood on this defense; then our 4-3 alignment would become very effective. Then again there's a reason why I'm not the GM of the Jets, and getting two defensive tackles in back to back rounds would reek of overkill when we need a strong safety and an inside linebacker.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Chase the Eagles Fan;2985073]I think Jackson would give you a defensive end in a 3-4 and then give you the ability to plug him in at end in a 46 or a 4-3 as well....Ryan likes to change his front all the time so versatility is imperative.

    Evander Hood and Fili Moala are 4-3 defensive tackles which you could also use by Shaun Ellis is 31 years old.[/QUOTE]

    Jackson impressed me because of how well he plays the run, but taking a defensive lineman at pick 17 when your 3-4 line was solid the year before wouldn't make much sense. Either Sanchez, Maualuga, Maclin, or Curry could fall to us and would all give us an immediate starter at a position of need. If we want defensive versatility then Francois and Hood present the best options for the asking price. Francois is an explosive 4-3 tackle and Hood can play any position on the defensive line well enough to start. Jackson is good but all he would do is replace Ellis, who has already made the Pro-Bowl in a different defensive alignment before.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=intothegreen;2985075]worrell williams, Brinley, and Richard ive all been watching carefuly...id take anyone of them in the later rounds[/QUOTE]

    How far do you think Brinkley will fall? The guy didn't play 1st class competition, has a minor injury history, and is slow as molasses; that alone should drive his draft stock out of the 3rd round.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=XingDaorong;2985083]How far do you think Brinkley will fall? The guy didn't play 1st class competition, has a minor injury history, and is slow as molasses; that alone should drive his draft stock out of the 3rd round.[/QUOTE]


    Brinkley played in the SEC, one of the top two conferences in the nation.

    He has very good speed and is athletic. This was his first year back from a major knee injury that kept him out his junior year. he has seemed tentative in his reads coming back form the injury. He gets a nice deep drop into coverage
    as he backpedals well, Besides Maluuga he is probably the rest two down ILB in the draft.

    The combine will be huge for him, if the NFL thinks that with this spring off from football his knee is all the way back the third is where he will be picked

    I will be very happy to see the pats grab him in the third

  11. #11
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Peter-Ording (Germany)
    Posts
    5,530
    I like Worrell Williams a lot, he's like a missile out on the field. He's short at about 6-0 but does everything pretty well.

    Another perfect 3-4 DE would be Demonte Bolden from Tennessee. Stout, big (6-5, 292) and the Vols have a history of producing good NFL players in the trenches. He should be had with a 4th rounder or even lower but he clearly fits the mold of a true 3-4 end to perfection...

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=patman;2985134]Brinkley played in the SEC, one of the top two conferences in the nation.

    He has very good speed and is athletic. This was his first year back from a major knee injury that kept him out his junior year. he has seemed tentative in his reads coming back form the injury. He gets a nice deep drop into coverage
    as he backpedals well, Besides Maluuga he is probably the rest two down ILB in the draft.

    The combine will be huge for him, if the NFL thinks that with this spring off from football his knee is all the way back the third is where he will be picked

    I will be very happy to see the pats grab him in the third[/QUOTE]

    A 3rd rounder? Every draft site has him as a 6th, 7th, or UFA; but you think his combine could up his prospect ranking that high? Imo he's worth it from what I saw, and his injury would drive his asking price down big time.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Flaming Mo;2985135]I like Worrell Williams a lot, he's like a missile out on the field. He's short at about 6-0 but does everything pretty well.

    Another perfect 3-4 DE would be Demonte Bolden from Tennessee. Stout, big (6-5, 292) and the Vols have a history of producing good NFL players in the trenches. He should be had with a 4th rounder or even lower but he clearly fits the mold of a true 3-4 end to perfection...[/QUOTE]

    A 4th rounder? Then I like our chances. :yes:

  14. #14
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Peter-Ording (Germany)
    Posts
    5,530
    [QUOTE=XingDaorong;2985448]A 4th rounder? Then I like our chances. :yes:[/QUOTE]

    Yeah and I think he's even projected to go lower. When you look at his build, his leverage and his size, he is just build for the 3-4 end position.

    To Tyson Jackson, now we have to be careful with those comparisons to Spears or other 3-4 DE. Most of these guys have played DT in college and that's why they are adapt to taking on double teams, being stout inside and holding their ground. Now Jackson did well vs the run but from him defensive end position in the 4-3. He is a tweener, that is for sure, but I have some doubts if he has the build, the strong legs and lower body strength, to really be a wall inside. 3-4 end isn't a pretty position to play and I just don't know if he's made for that.

    Brinkley was one of the hottest LB prospects before his knee injury. At the beginning of this season he looked out of shape and as someone said, very tentative. Later though he clearly came around and you won't find much better run stuffers than him. But with his injury history, the major knee surgery, he could drop and would be gigantic value in the 4th round to me, especially considering we have two fourth rounders.

    To Worrell Williams, now he is really short, but strong as a bull and he can fly. Hits very hard too and is solid in coverage. I would clearly take a look at him in the later rounds but for him, the Combine will also be big (in terms of measurements) as it will be for Brinkley with his mobility and speed.

    Too bad Alabama's linebackers are that young, Hightower and McClain are just made for the 3-4 defense. They got everything you look for, are extremely aggressive and tough and they are great athletes.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=XingDaorong;2985446]A 3rd rounder? Every draft site has him as a 6th, 7th, or UFA; but you think his combine could up his prospect ranking that high? Imo he's worth it from what I saw, and his injury would drive his asking price down big time.[/QUOTE]

    The pats are picking at about 88 and 97 in the third (samuel) If they get him for the 97 pick I will be pleased, I dont think he will be there at 120 when the pats pick in the forth.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Flaming Mo;2985541]Yeah and I think he's even projected to go lower. When you look at his build, his leverage and his size, he is just build for the 3-4 end position.

    To Tyson Jackson, now we have to be careful with those comparisons to Spears or other 3-4 DE. Most of these guys have played DT in college and that's why they are adapt to taking on double teams, being stout inside and holding their ground. Now Jackson did well vs the run but from him defensive end position in the 4-3. He is a tweener, that is for sure, but I have some doubts if he has the build, the strong legs and lower body strength, to really be a wall inside. 3-4 end isn't a pretty position to play and I just don't know if he's made for that.

    Brinkley was one of the hottest LB prospects before his knee injury. At the beginning of this season he looked out of shape and as someone said, very tentative. Later though he clearly came around and you won't find much better run stuffers than him. But with his injury history, the major knee surgery, he could drop and would be gigantic value in the 4th round to me, [B]especially considering we have two fourth rounders.[/B]

    To Worrell Williams, now he is really short, but strong as a bull and he can fly. Hits very hard too and is solid in coverage. I would clearly take a look at him in the later rounds but for him, the Combine will also be big (in terms of measurements) as it will be for Brinkley with his mobility and speed.

    Too bad Alabama's linebackers are that young, Hightower and McClain are just made for the 3-4 defense. They got everything you look for, are extremely aggressive and tough and they are great athletes.[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately we do not since we have to give NO our 4th for their third. Someone correct me if this is wrong.

  17. #17
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Peter-Ording (Germany)
    Posts
    5,530
    [QUOTE=TheMo;2985688]Unfortunately we do not since we have to give NO our 4th for their third. Someone correct me if this is wrong.[/QUOTE]

    I think we get one from Washington for Kendall. I got it from Walterfootball.com but I'm not sure either...

  18. #18
    [QUOTE]To Tyson Jackson, now we have to be careful with those comparisons to Spears or other 3-4 DE. Most of these guys have played DT in college and that's why they are adapt to taking on double teams, being stout inside and holding their ground. Now Jackson did well vs the run but from him defensive end position in the 4-3. He is a tweener, that is for sure, but I have some doubts if he has the build, the strong legs and lower body strength, to really be a wall inside. 3-4 end isn't a pretty position to play and I just don't know if he's made for that.[/QUOTE]

    Exactly:

    [IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eEhbJH6QPcxP/610x.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0128/nfl_g_seymour_300.jpg[/IMG]

    Seymour's the prototype, and you can see how much weight he has in his legs. The other two elite 3-4 ends, Castillo and Warren, have tree trunks. It's not even that Jackson would be a bad player in the 3-4, it's just that he doesn't have the motor on the field.

    Theres no high end 3-4 end this year, but the future is :drool: for 3-4 teams. Odrick, Heyward, Oghobaase, Jones, Cody, Suh, McCoy, Granger, Austin, Robinson...

    Guys I like in this draft who might be decent depth: John Gill (Northwestern), Jarron Gilbert (he's gonna rise big time), Darryl Richard (GT), Demonte Bolden (Tenn), Will Johnson (Michigan), Sammie Lee Hill, Khalif Mitchell, Roy Miller, and Antonio Dixon (Miami).

    I like Dixon. He's got alot of potential, and he's got a very good NT build.
    Last edited by Chica me Tipo; 01-24-2009 at 05:43 PM.

  19. #19
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Peter-Ording (Germany)
    Posts
    5,530
    Can anyone clarify how many picks we have now?!? Thanks in advance...

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=Flaming Mo;2985541]Yeah and I think he's even projected to go lower. When you look at his build, his leverage and his size, he is just build for the 3-4 end position.

    To Tyson Jackson, now we have to be careful with those comparisons to Spears or other 3-4 DE. Most of these guys have played DT in college and that's why they are adapt to taking on double teams, being stout inside and holding their ground. Now Jackson did well vs the run but from him defensive end position in the 4-3. He is a tweener, that is for sure, but I have some doubts if he has the build, the strong legs and lower body strength, to really be a wall inside. 3-4 end isn't a pretty position to play and I just don't know if he's made for that.

    Brinkley was one of the hottest LB prospects before his knee injury. At the beginning of this season he looked out of shape and as someone said, very tentative. Later though he clearly came around and you won't find much better run stuffers than him. But with his injury history, the major knee surgery, he could drop and would be gigantic value in the 4th round to me, especially considering we have two fourth rounders.

    To Worrell Williams, now he is really short, but strong as a bull and he can fly. Hits very hard too and is solid in coverage. I would clearly take a look at him in the later rounds but for him, the Combine will also be big (in terms of measurements) as it will be for Brinkley with his mobility and speed.

    Too bad Alabama's linebackers are that young, Hightower and McClain are just made for the 3-4 defense. They got everything you look for, are extremely aggressive and tough and they are great athletes.[/QUOTE]

    Great post Mo, and what is it about Williams that's keeping his draft stock down? From the highlight vids on him he looks like a fast and intuitive linebacker but you're right, he is not as tall as I thought he was. Would he be worth taking in the 4th or 5th rounds?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us