Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 32 of 32

Thread: Position by position: Ravens defense 2008 vs Jets defense 2009

  1. #21
    All League
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Forked River, NJ
    Posts
    4,728
    [quote=Chica me Tipo;3038469]The Ravens D falls apart without Ngata IMO.

    Ngata and Jenkins IMO were the top 3-4 DL men in the league last year...Ngata's done it since he came into the league though while Jenkins has had 1 year in the 3-4.[/quote]

    As would our D fall apart without Jenkins.

  2. #22
    the bottom line is anyone can come on the blog and make a point of why one defense is better than the other. the jets have all the upside in the world and the ravens are getting old in some positions that will soon have to be replaced. but when it comes down to it the ravens have proven themselves over and over again and we havent yet, we can be a totally awesome defense and one of the best next year we just have to put the pieces together.

  3. #23
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Murray Hill
    Posts
    7,569
    Great, interesting read.

    Really shows you what this defense not only could be but what it really should be. We don't have a single glaring hole from top to bottom. That's amazing and I don't remember a time that was the case in this defense's history.

    There's a lack of depth on all 3 levels that hopefully will get rounded out but I am absolutely psyched to see these guys on the field.

  4. #24
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Peter-Ording (Germany)
    Posts
    5,530
    [QUOTE=David Harris;3039161]Great, interesting read.

    Really shows you what this defense not only could be but what it really should be. We don't have a single glaring hole from top to bottom. That's amazing and I don't remember a time that was the case in this defense's history.

    There's a lack of depth on all 3 levels that hopefully will get rounded out but I am absolutely psyched to see these guys on the field.[/QUOTE]

    Excellent point about the strength top to bottom. Bryan Thomas and Kenyon Coleman might be our weakest links and even they are atleast solid at what they do...

  5. #25
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,304

    I prefer to look at this another way

    With the Draft coming up and our needs as a team especially since the Ravens had 2 things going for them that the Jets simply do not.Experience leadership and experience in the scheme.

    My view centers around the team and is as follows.

    QB:
    Clemens
    Ratliff
    Ainge

    ***** Upgrade *****

    OL:
    Ferguson
    Faneca
    Mangold
    Moore
    Woody

    ***** Upgrade but can stay Pat *****

    RB:
    Jones
    Washington
    Richardson

    ***** Upgrade *****

    WR:
    Cotch
    Stuckey
    Smith
    Clowney
    Henry

    ***** Upgrade but can stay Pat *****

    TE:
    Keller

    ***** Major additions Needed *****
    PK:
    Feeley

    ***** Upgrade *****

    DL:
    Ellis
    Jenkins
    Coleman

    ***** Upgrade *****

    LBs:
    Pace
    Scott
    Harris
    Gholston/Thomas

    ***** Upgrade but can stay Pat *****

    S :
    Rhodes
    Leonard

    ***** Upgrade but can stay Pat *****

    CBs:
    Reves
    Shepard
    Lowery

    ***** Uprrade but can stay Pat *****

    P :
    Hodges

    ***** Upgrade needed *****


    Base on what we have above,it's clear that our maajor needs are at TE to backup Keller.At DE to upgrade 1st line of defense.At QB due to the uncertainty of the present cast.At the Punter position and at the FB position.Nobody in their right mind is going to draft a backup TE or a FB or a Punter with their 1st picks.Therefore,it boilds down to the QB position and the Dline position.

    Now some may say that i forgot about the WR position.IMHO,I did not and the reason is simple.With the players i mentioned,we have speed,size,hight,and flexibility.Going with a novice QB,it's going to become paramount that the Jets focus their offense towards the running game and ball security.We do not need to spend either of our 1st 2 picks on this position at this time.

    IMHO,the best course of action for the Jets is a trade down that would allow them to move down into the early 20s,say the Eagles 1st pick and take either the best DE available or the QB from KState.Then what they need to do is combine both 2nd round picks say once again with the Eagles at 28 and take the player they did not take with their 1st pick.

    The rest of the draft can be used to fill in the areas of the team that need upgrading.Starting with the backup TE position.

  6. #26
    All League
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Lawrence, MA
    Posts
    3,807
    Good in-depth post.....

    As a football fan and player in Pop Warner and High School and playing with friends since I was old enough to remember I have always loved a tough, physical defense. Always been a Jets fan no matter what but have always admire and love to watch teams like Chicago, Baltimore, Philly, New England and Pittsburgh for the way they play defense and can't wait to see the D Ryan and Mr T have put together and with a very good run game I want to see teams intimidated to play us, this is definatley gonna be an exciting year!!!

  7. #27
    The one Wild Card on this D is if Rex can turn Gholston into the player he should be. We could end up having a better D than the Ravens last year right now. :D

    We do need depth and I'd really like Raji or some young stud at NT to spell Jenkins and to wreak havoc through the center of the line.:yes:
    If we could somehow get another great NT, we're in the Playoffs, no doubt.

    Time to work primarily on O now. Need depth at RB or a Better back than T. Jones, QB Possiblities for more competition, WR(s), depth on the line and let's play ball!

  8. #28
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,304
    My view centers around the team and is as follows.

    QB:
    Clemens
    Ratliff
    Ainge

    ***** Upgrade ***** Josh Freeman/Curtis Painter (1st and 6th)

    OL:
    Ferguson
    Faneca
    Mangold
    Moore
    Woody

    ***** Upgrade but can stay Pat ***** Andre Smith (1st)

    RB:
    Jones
    Washington
    Richardson

    ***** Upgrade ***** Shonn Green (3rd)

    WR:
    Cotch
    Stuckey
    Smith
    Clowney
    Henry

    ***** Upgrade but can stay Pat ***** DHB/ Harvin/Foster (2nd - FA)

    TE:
    Keller

    ***** Major additions Needed ***** Anthony Hill (4th)
    PK:
    Feeley

    ***** Upgrade *****

    DL:
    Ellis
    Jenkins
    Coleman

    ***** Upgrade ***** Jackson/ Magee/ Moala/Gilbert (2nd -4th)

    LBs:
    Pace
    Scott
    Harris
    Gholston/Thomas

    ***** Upgrade but can stay Pat *****

    S :
    Rhodes
    Leonard

    ***** Upgrade but can stay Pat *****

    CBs:
    Reves
    Shepard
    Lowery

    ***** Uprrade but can stay Pat *****

    P :
    Hodges
    ***** Upgrade needed ***** Colquitt(the Mannings of punting)
    6th or 7th

  9. #29
    Since you're taking the Jets 2009 defense on opening day, then you should have compared it to the Baltimore defense in September as well instead of the injury riddled playoff sqad.

    By that standard, you left out Kelly Gregg, Chris McAlister and Dawan Landry, all top notch players.

    - Gregg is undoubtedly better than Coleman.

    - McAlister is undoubtedly better than Sheppard.

    - Rolle moves down to matchup with Revis, where it's at least somewhat competitive, but the edge undoubtedly goes to Revis.

    - Landry is superior to Leonhard in every facet of the game.

    Furthermore, I realize that you're only comparing starting talent alone, but chemistry is a HUGE part of why the Ravens have been so good for so long.

    Baltimore also has more depth, so although it's romantic to compare a healthy Jets team on a New York board against an injured Baltimore unit, the intangibles/chemistry + depth + overall coaching staff tips the scale heavily in the Ravens favor.

    I'm probably being biased as well, but there is a reason why the Ravens are a perennial powerhouse on defense, and the Jets aren't.
    Last edited by Ravensfan06; 03-09-2009 at 04:44 PM.

  10. #30
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Peter-Ording (Germany)
    Posts
    5,530
    [QUOTE=Ravensfan06;3040315]Since you're taking the Jets 2009 defense on opening day, then you should have compared it to the Baltimore defense in September as well instead of the injury riddled playoff sqad.

    By that standard, you left out Kelly Gregg, Chris McAlister and Dawan Landry, all top notch players.

    - Gregg is undoubtedly better than Coleman.

    - McAlister is undoubtedly better than Sheppard.

    - Rolle moves down to matchup with Revis, where it's at least somewhat competitive, but the edge undoubtedly goes to Revis.

    - Landry is superior to Leonhard in every facet of the game.

    Furthermore, I realize that you're only comparing starting talent alone, but chemistry is a HUGE part of why the Ravens have been so good for so long.

    Baltimore also has more depth, so although it's romantic to compare a healthy Jets team on a New York board against an injured Baltimore unit, the intangibles/chemistry + depth + overall coaching staff tips the scale heavily in the Ravens favor.

    I'm probably being biased as well, but there is a reason why the Ravens are a perennial powerhouse on defense, and the Jets aren't.[/QUOTE]

    But what team was out there most of the time for the Ravens and was a top defense?!? Not McAlister, not Gregg and not Landry... now would they have made the Ravens even more dominant?!? Propably yes. But even without these guys the Ravens had a top notch defense AND that was the measuring stick for the comparison...

    I think you are missing the point of the original post. My intention wasn't to compare the talent and make the argument that we can be better than the Ravens or are better or whatever. I just wanted to prove that the Jets definitely have enough talent on the roster to be a top 5 defense whcih the injury riddled Baltimore squad was last year. I see your point about chemistry, leadership and all these things, yet I also said that these things are for another discussion. This thread is about talent level and talent level alone as some people said that the Ravens had the much better players and Rex Ryan will have problems in NY because of the lack of talent. Well, I think by comparing the starters we can see that the gap actually isn't as big as some people make it out to be.

    Now another thing I disagree with is that you are saying McAlister is clearly better than Sheppard. Well, when we compare McAlister in his prime to Sheppard today, yes. But fact has it that Lito is just entering his prime even though he struggled lately. McAlister spends more time on the injured reserve these days and is clearly on the last legs of his career. But even if he plays, we match him with Revis and Sheppard with Rolle and the Jets have the better CB duo. And see, this is not even what my post was about. I compared our supposed talent level to the talent level the Ravens actually fielded last year and with which they had a dominant defense. Conclusion is, the Jets talent is pretty close to the talent level of a top 5 defense last year and we have the same leading this talent on the field... chemistry, leadership, all those things have to work themselves out over time, but the foundation is clearly set and that's all a team can do in an offseason...

  11. #31
    [QUOTE]But what team was out there most of the time for the Ravens and was a top defense?!? Not McAlister, not Gregg and not Landry... now would they have made the Ravens even more dominant?!? Propably yes.[/QUOTE]

    I've been saying for awhile now that the league was fairly watered down last year as the Ravens have fielded much better units in the past, yet still managed to grab the number two spot in the league.

    [QUOTE=Flaming Mo;3040474]I think you are missing the point of the original post. My intention wasn't to compare the talent and make the argument that we can be better than the Ravens or are better or whatever. I just wanted to prove that the Jets definitely have enough talent on the roster to be a top 5 defense whcih the injury riddled Baltimore squad was last year. I see your point about chemistry, leadership and all these things, yet I also said that these things are for another discussion. This thread is about talent level and talent level alone as some people said that the Ravens had the much better players and Rex Ryan will have problems in NY because of the lack of talent. Well, I think by comparing the starters we can see that the gap actually isn't as big as some people make it out to be.[/QUOTE]

    I respect that post, and I will agree with you in that the Jets have a ton of talent, but all of these are just projections on paper.

    A few years ago, the Ravens had an offensive coaching staff of Brian Billick, Rick Neuheisel and Jim Fassel. These accomplished coaches were brought in to see the maturation of Kyle Boller, who had at his disposal Jamal Lewis, a year off of his 2,000 yard season, Todd Heap, easily a top five tight at that time, Travis Taylor, a wide receiver drafted in the top ten with a ton of upside, and Terrell Owens, a top five wide receiver. Our offensive line consisted of former studs like Mike Flynn, Edwin Mutitalio, Jonathan Ogden and Casey Rabach.

    Well, as it turned out, a still young Jamal quickly fell off, Owens refused to play in Baltimore, Taylor never panned out, the offensive line was dismantled by other teams, and Heap began to battle the injuries that still plague him to this day. The theoretical glue of our offense, Kyle Boller, ended up being a complete bust as he was not able to handle the pressure of being a feature QB in the NFL. Unforeseen before the season began, challenges arose as things never turn out as you expect them to.

    My point is essentially that historically bad units can look really good on paper when a few upgrades are made, but everything has to be put in perspective and looked at relatively. Sure, the Jets have a ton of talent, but maybe Kansas City is building a strong locker room, which could prove to be more valuable than all of the promise in New York. I realize that our job as fans is mainly to speculate, but in such an unpredictable league like the NFL especially, I'm not going to believe it until I see it.

    [QUOTE]Now another thing I disagree with is that you are saying McAlister is clearly better than Sheppard. Well, when we compare McAlister in his prime to Sheppard today, yes. [/QUOTE]

    McAlister is still a very, very effective cornerback, he is just expensive for his age and quite argumentative, which is why many teams are so turned off. I would still rate him above the vast majority of DBs in this league, Sheppard included, but if you must then Chris is only a slight favorite, and I really believe that having watched them both for awhile.

  12. #32
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Peter-Ording (Germany)
    Posts
    5,530
    [QUOTE=Ravensfan06;3040665]I've been saying for awhile now that the league was fairly watered down last year as the Ravens have fielded much better units in the past, yet still managed to grab the number two spot in the league.

    I respect that post, and I will agree with you in that the Jets have a ton of talent, but all of these are just projections on paper.

    A few years ago, the Ravens had an offensive coaching staff of Brian Billick, Rick Neuheisel and Jim Fassel. These accomplished coaches were brought in to see the maturation of Kyle Boller, who had at his disposal Jamal Lewis, a year off of his 2,000 yard season, Todd Heap, easily a top five tight at that time, Travis Taylor, a wide receiver drafted in the top ten with a ton of upside, and Terrell Owens, a top five wide receiver. Our offensive line consisted of former studs like Mike Flynn, Edwin Mutitalio, Jonathan Ogden and Casey Rabach.

    Well, as it turned out, a still young Jamal quickly fell off, Owens refused to play in Baltimore, Taylor never panned out, the offensive line was dismantled by other teams, and Heap began to battle the injuries that still plague him to this day. The theoretical glue of our offense, Kyle Boller, ended up being a complete bust as he was not able to handle the pressure of being a feature QB in the NFL. Unforeseen before the season began, challenges arose as things never turn out as you expect them to.

    My point is essentially that historically bad units can look really good on paper when a few upgrades are made, but everything has to be put in perspective and looked at relatively. Sure, the Jets have a ton of talent, but maybe Kansas City is building a strong locker room, which could prove to be more valuable than all of the promise in New York. I realize that our job as fans is mainly to speculate, but in such an unpredictable league like the NFL especially, I'm not going to believe it until I see it.

    McAlister is still a very, very effective cornerback, he is just expensive for his age and quite argumentative, which is why many teams are so turned off. I would still rate him above the vast majority of DBs in this league, Sheppard included, but if you must then Chris is only a slight favorite, and I really believe that having watched them both for awhile.[/QUOTE]

    Good post. I see all those points about chemistry and the locker room. Yet there is no reason to believe why the Jets shouldn't be a unit and buy into the new system. Two players up the middle have played under Rex and will definitely help to ease the way through the transition. Now again, this debate is all about the talent level alone as numerous members of the media or around these boards had concerns about the Jets talent level. I mentioned in the beginning that I don't want to take things into consideration like chemistry, leadership etc. People said the Jets don't have enough talent, I disagreed. That there's much more to a good football team or sports team for that matter, I guess that's out of the question and you made some good points to prove that point further.

    Sure, we gotta be lucky with injuries. The Jets were last year on offense as almost no marquee players went down. But you can't plan for injuries. No GM would say that he won't fill the needs on his roster because everything is in jeopardy as people might get injured. This can always happen to everyone.

    The NFL is unpredictable, you bet. Yet as a front office you try to take as much action as you can and you take your chances. You pout Bart Scott, an accomplished NFL talent at ILB instead of an unproven rookie. You trade for Lito Sheppard instead of signing has beens like Ty Law or trust a rookie. Those aren't gambles, it is solid and smart operating. It's not like we spend millions for skill positions like the Redskins do, we actually filled our most glaring holes to have as much versatility in the draft as possible. Does that give us the guarentee of a great team/defense next year?!? Hell no. Does that increase our chances to be good and definitely better than under Mangini?!? Based on our talent level (which is the ONLY thing you can judge at this point) alone... HELL YES!!!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us