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Thread: Hutch: Bowens leaning towards Browns over New York Jets

  1. #21
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    I'll say it again...I am so sick of being buzzworded by friggin "aggressive"...we outsacked the Ravens last year...believe it or not Rex Ryan got knocked for exactly the same sh*t we knock Mangini for...this is still the modern NFL and offenses are spreading the field...you can't super mega blitz or w/e it is you guys think Ryan does 100% of the time...

    Bowens coming back isn't bad. Hopefully we still get at least one young guy in there.

  2. #22
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    [quote=Chica me Tipo;3039371]I'll say it again...I am so sick of being buzzworded by friggin "aggressive"...we outsacked the Ravens last year...believe it or not Rex Ryan got knocked for exactly the same sh*t we knock Mangini for...this is still the modern NFL and offenses are spreading the field...you can't super mega blitz or w/e it is you guys think Ryan does 100% of the time...

    Bowens coming back isn't bad. [B]Hopefully we still get at least one young guy in there[/B].[/quote]

    Marques Murrell anyone?

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;3039371]I'll say it again...I am so sick of being buzzworded by friggin "aggressive"...we outsacked the Ravens last year...believe it or not Rex Ryan got knocked for exactly the same sh*t we knock Mangini for...this is still the modern NFL and offenses are spreading the field...you can't super mega blitz or w/e it is you guys think Ryan does 100% of the time...

    Bowens coming back isn't bad. Hopefully we still get at least one young guy in there.[/QUOTE]

    Us outsacking the Ravens means absolutely nothing. Our pass rush this season was putrid for the most part.

    As far as aggressive, i agree with that somewhat, but when you realize that essentially we rushed 3 a LOT, then you kind ofunderstand. Perhaps, creative would be the better word. Our blitzes looked predictable.

    the rest I agree with.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=NYJets 4 Life;3039374]Us outsacking the Ravens means absolutely nothing. Our pass rush this season was putrid for the most part.

    As far as aggressive, i agree with that somewhat, but when you realize that essentially we rushed 3 a LOT, then you kind ofunderstand. Perhaps, creative would be the better word. Our blitzes looked predictable.

    the rest I agree with.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree...our pass rush was damn good beyond 5 games where everything fell apart...and no more consistent or incosistent than any other team in the league...we just happen to be watching one specific team and seeing it right before our eyes.

    You think the stuff we complain about isn't universal amongst all but the most elite teams?

    We rushed 3 alot, but we also didn't rush 3 alot. Just like many other teams who rush 3 or 4 tops...

    You guys do realize that when offenses put out 3-4 WR's, that you have to take away from your number of blitzers to you know...cover those guys?

    From there...I don't have any numbers in front of me...but I think it's becoming fairly well known that using 3-4 WR's is getting fairly common?

    Fact is we fell apart last year because teams learned all they had to do was spread our D out. Thats an issue of talent, coaching, but IMO most obviously depth.

    F it. I'm just sh*tting on the Aggressive party. We're going to be the most aggressive aggressives to ever aggress this league.
    Last edited by Chica me Tipo; 03-08-2009 at 09:42 PM.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;3039387]I disagree...our pass rush was damn good beyond 5 games where everything fell apart...and no more consistent or incosistent than any other team in the league...we just happen to be watching one specific team and seeing it right before our eyes.

    You think the stuff we complain about isn't universal amongst all but the most elite teams?

    We rushed 3 alot, but we also didn't rush 3 alot. Just like many other teams who rush 3 or 4 tops...

    You guys do realize that when offenses put out 3-4 WR's, that you have to take away from your number of blitzers to you know...cover those guys?

    From there...I don't have any numbers in front of me...but I think it's becoming fairly well known that using 3-4 WR's is getting fairly common?

    F it. I'm just sh*tting on the Aggressive party. We're going to be the most aggressive aggressives to ever aggress this league.[/QUOTE]

    Well I thought the pass rush was good against Miami and good against Cincinnati but pretty much struggled otherwise. I see your points though.

    And yep I realize you have to cover the WRs that are going out, no question about it. That is where creativity, and having guys who can beat their man pass rushing wise comes into play.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=MDL_JET;3039231]I guess im the only one that would have liked him back with the Jets? He adds good depth I think. Oh well..

    And why the hell would we trade up for one of those WR's?? One of them will be there[/QUOTE]

    Nope, very solid football player, very good depth and versatility, hopefully, it was Trusnik and Murrell that came on at the end of last year that they believe Bowens can be replaced.

    Also interesting to note that Bowens liked playing for Mangini, for as much as Mangini was ripped here, it's worth noting that the majority of the players don't feel the same.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=Ven0m;3039356]Uh oh, Sooth's sources are gonna be put to the test now. Hope you don't Bongo-up on us. ;)[/QUOTE]


    When Hutch reported last week that the Jets were looking to re-sign him, who told you he was going to meet with Cleveland?

    My sources are very accurate.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=NYJets 4 Life;3039391]Well I thought the pass rush was good against Miami and good against Cincinnati but pretty much struggled otherwise. I see your points though.

    And yep I realize you have to cover the WRs that are going out, no question about it. That is where creativity, and having guys who can beat their man pass rushing wise comes into play.[/QUOTE]

    Arizona? Buffallo? The Rams?

    I'm not just saying this towards you...and it's certainly not a knock because it just shows I have no life...but I think Jets fans are incredibly ignorant of the plusses of last years D and really anything about Ryan's D beyond the fact that it's been really good in Baltimore.

    It doesn't help that "aggressive" has been buzzworded and as a group we ate it right up.

    My goal for Ryan's D is to hold up over all 16 games, and not b*tch out after 11. Scott, Ryan, and more depth at all 3 levels should hopefully solve that.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;3039387]I disagree...our pass rush was damn good beyond 5 games where everything fell apart...and no more consistent or incosistent than any other team in the league...we just happen to be watching one specific team and seeing it right before our eyes.

    You think the stuff we complain about isn't universal amongst all but the most elite teams?

    We rushed 3 alot, but we also didn't rush 3 alot. Just like many other teams who rush 3 or 4 tops...

    You guys do realize that when offenses put out 3-4 WR's, that you have to take away from your number of blitzers to you know...cover those guys?

    From there...I don't have any numbers in front of me...but I think it's becoming fairly well known that using 3-4 WR's is getting fairly common?

    F it. I'm just sh*tting on the Aggressive party. We're going to be the most aggressive aggressives to ever aggress this league.[/QUOTE]

    Lol

    btw chico I think you win the record for fastest to 1000 posts :P

    I think it was a tale of 2 seasons. In the second half of the season the numbers show that we blitzed less.

    But early on, when we were getting sacks it was because guys were coming free. We don't have a single reliable pass rusher who can beat a LT 1 on 1. We schemed sacks and I think offenses caught on later in the season.

    Also some of our guys simply wore down. Pace was not the same player as the season went on. He lost half a step.

    I hate to rely on Vernon but his billing is exactly what this team needs. Ryan's scheme will help but you need the horses.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=David Harris;3039397]Lol

    btw chico I think you win the record for fastest to 1000 posts :P

    I think it was a tale of 2 seasons. In the second half of the season the numbers show that we blitzed less.

    But early on, when we were getting sacks it was because guys were coming free. We don't have a single reliable pass rusher who can beat a LT 1 on 1. [B]We schemed sacks and I think offenses caught on later in the season.[/B]

    Also some of our guys simply wore down. Pace was not the same player as the season went on. He lost half a step.

    I hate to rely on Vernon but his billing is exactly what this team needs. Ryan's scheme will help but you need the horses.[/QUOTE]

    Wow...I never thought of putting it like that...but when I think about the Revis sack in Buffallo...the failed Revis blitz in Seattle that sealed the game...the Elam blitzes...

    We did scheme our blitzes.

    Problem is, everyone has to scheme their blitzes now IMO. The only teams that can't are teams like New England and the Titans, who have a player (Haynesworth) or 3 (the NE D-line) that can mess up a QB's sight lines and disrupt pass plays without much other help.

    Or maybe I'm just high and overcomplicating the game.

    I completely agree that we need that one guy teams know can get after the QB whenever he wants to. Gholston needs to step his game up.

    Last years biggest problems IMO:

    1. Depth

    2. Health

    3. Scheming.

    The scheming didn't seem all that F'd up when were off to our 8-3 start and everyone was talking SB.

    That said, I do think it's really obvious that Mangini had problems communicating what he wanted to do. Maybe the team should have gotten him a real DC...personally I think thats what they should have done...but it's definitely nothing I'll lose sleep over...unless Rex blows as a coach....I like Pettine if that counts for anything.
    Last edited by Chica me Tipo; 03-08-2009 at 09:59 PM.

  11. #31
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    [quote=Chica me Tipo;3039395]Arizona? Buffallo? The Rams?

    I'm not just saying this towards you...and it's certainly not a knock because it just shows I have no life...but I think Jets fans are incredibly ignorant of the plusses of last years D and really anything about Ryan's D beyond the fact that it's been really good in Baltimore.

    It doesn't help that "aggressive" has been buzzworded and as a group we ate it right up.

    My goal for Ryan's D is to hold up over all 16 games, and not b*tch out after 11. Scott, Ryan, and more depth at all 3 levels should hopefully solve that.[/quote]

    In the first half of the season the Jets had 29 sacks. In the second half of the season, the Jets had 12 sacks.

    I saw a less aggressive defense. I don't know if it was tired players, better prepared offenses, Bob Sutton's incompetency or a combination of all 3.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=Jordy;3039417]In the first half of the season the Jets had 29 sacks. In the second half of the season, the Jets had 12 sacks.

    I saw a less aggressive defense. I don't know if it was tired players, better prepared offenses, Bob Sutton's incompetency or a combination of all 3.[/QUOTE]

    I blame Sutton and Mangini.

    And TX.

  13. #33
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    The issue to me with Mangini's defense wasn't necessairily so much sack related, sacks is only one measure of a pass rush. I want to see more QB pressures, more Knockdown hits. I want to see opposing QB's with dirty jerseys because we've knocked them down to the turf. To me, a Good QB pressure can be even more valuable then a sack as if you can force the QB to alter his timing you can usually force him into a mistake with the football, which leads to turnovers. That's the one thing about the Ravens defense through the years, is they're almost always right at the top of the league when it comes to turnovers.

    We showed some potential last year, but lacked consistancy. We had some games where we had great pressure and other games where we didn't have any pressure to speak of. Many of the sacks we did get were the result of the players individual talent and not necessairly great coaching, how many times did you see us create a mismatch where we had 1 more guy rushing then they had bodies to block? Not often enough.

    I hear your point about 3 and 4 Wideout formations, but there are still ways to generate pressure in those defenses, be it a well timed Cornerback Blitz, or bringing a Safety into the box and using him to Blitz, or just sending the linebackers we do have on the field in those formations, ect. This idea that we can't blitz because they're spreading us out isn't really true, you just might have to be more creative with how you bring the pressure.

    Plus, How many games did we get off to a lead only to see Mangini turn to a soft protect scheme that well, didn't protect anything? And by the end of that game we're always clinging on to dear life to get a Win in a game that should have been decided long before that point. That needs to stop. The only sending 3 or 4 players is just one example of that lack of aggressiveness at times, you know as well as I do that we did it much more often then we should have. I don't care if we're up by 3 scores, if what you're doing defensively is working then continue to bring the pressure.

    Those are the kind of things that I'm hoping Rex Ryan will change with this defense. I wanted a coach that will maximize their talents, which is something I think Rex Ryan will do.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE]The issue to me with Mangini's defense wasn't necessairily so much sack related, sacks is only one measure of a pass rush. I want to see more QB pressures, more Knockdown hits. I want to see opposing QB's with dirty jerseys because we've knocked them down to the turf. To me, a Good QB pressure can be even more valuable then a sack as if you can force the QB to alter his timing you can usually force him into a mistake with the football, which leads to turnovers. That's the one thing about the Ravens defense through the years, is they're almost always right at the top of the league when it comes to turnovers. [/QUOTE]

    That'd D-line play, and we had that with Jenkins.

    Then he either got hurt or ran out of gas.

    Jenkins + another elite 3-4 DE talent + another elite DL talent = Dominant.

    It's what the Pats did.

  15. #35
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    Not this **** again, there is nothing wrong with our D-Line starters.

    Need some depth, but it's March, that's to be expected.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=Ven0m;3039504]Not this **** again, there is nothing wrong with our D-Line starters.

    Need some depth, but it's March, that's to be expected.[/QUOTE]

    I was just saying lol...

    I'm fine with the DL as long as we get one or two young guys in the draft or something.
    Last edited by Chica me Tipo; 03-08-2009 at 11:50 PM.

  17. #37
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    Bowens is actually a solid LB! To come in and have to take over for Harris and end the season tied for 4th on the team in sacks speaks volume. He is a versatile backup and we don't lose much when he comes in for our starters. He should be kept and hopefully will resign.

  18. #38
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    I guess Bowens is more of a Mangini guy. Hey, its a process!!
    Seriously, Bowens is a good playeer but id rather see some of the younger guys get more hands on action . Guys like Murrell and Jason Trusnik have shown some ability and id rather see more of them than Bowens who maybe has a year or two left.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=MDL_JET;3039231]I guess im the only one that would have liked him back with the Jets? He adds good depth I think. Oh well..[/QUOTE]

    definitely does. off the top he had what -40 tackles 4 sacks and a pick starting 4 games for harris. he'll be missed as depth and as an underrated role player -but he is replaceable.. and like you said... oh well..

  20. #40
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    his agent is probably responsible for the "loves" playing for Mangini comment. I mean -- I'm totally speculating -- but it's certainly the right thing to say from a business stand point.

    secondly, every new coach needs to bring in some of "his" guys...and I'm guessing Mangini might be willing to pay a premium to a few guys just to prove to the rest of the Browns players that there ARE players willing to voluntarily choose to play for him. So, chances are, the Browns might pay Bowens a bit more than he's worth.

    all that said, good news if it's true that he's now leaning towards coming back the Jets. I think he's a very solid back up.

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