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Thread: 2009 Jets Draft: The Year of "We'll See"

  1. #1

    2009 Jets Draft: The Year of "We'll See"

    Traded away most of our picks, Redskins style, for the unquestionably "flashy" and "hyped" pick of Sanchez. On his development will rest the short-term future of this franchise....if he's great, as most here think, the Jets have their "Franchise QB" at what would then be seen as a reasonable price (1st, 2nd, trio of apparently unwanted players) If he flops, or even if he isn't starting and succeeding in 2010 at the least, or Freeman becomes a big success, then this pick is clearly a mistake, cost, depth and cap-space wise.

    But be assured, no one on this board, not me and certainly not any of you, know yet what Sanchez will be.He's certainly well thought of among the Espn heads, no doubt. But the concerns.....experience, quality of play at times in that limited experience, size and (once again with a Jets QB) arm strength, will all be closely watched as the offseason and preseason progresses. We'll see.....

    Same goes, to a lesser degree, for our other pick. He's got some backers, and some suprise he was still there, but some think he's a JAG in waiting with intelligence and field vision issues. In a draft with only two meaningful aquisitions, they both have to succeed. Busts can't happen with so few choices with which to work. We'll see.....

    No doubt, I am a doubter by nature, more so when size and arm stength are considered two primary weaknesses of a player, worse mroe when a trade up is involved, and worst of all when the trade is for that years "late rapid riser". Thats alot of things I fear. But I can see the flash and am awed bythe hype of Sanchez.....but I want to see some real meaty NFL steak to go with this media-and-fan-based sizzle. We'll see if he can provide it.

    Can't really doubt yet (Warfish's rule of new coaches....no questioning decisions till we see what kind of team he puts on the field, and how it plays) but I don't share the overwhelming optimism either......this is (IMO) not a Super Bowl Team a QB away.....we have depth issues all over the place. Maybe Free Agents can fill them....we'll see, right?

    We have banked on Sanchez. We havn't (yet) filled many of our holes, opened a few new ones (not that I'm crying over any of the lost guys, Ratliff included), and have some very serious depth weaknesses as we stand today. So....we'll see. Sanchez becomes the next Manning, or even the next "Competant, Winning QB who Makes Others Better" then it's all good.

    We'll see.

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3104313]
    [B] I don't share the overwhelming optimism either......this is (IMO) not a Super Bowl Team a QB away.....[/B]we have depth issues all over the place. Maybe Free Agents can fill them....we'll see, right?

    We have banked on Sanchez.[B] We havn't (yet) filled many of our holes, opened a few new ones (not that I'm crying over any of the lost guys, Ratliff included), and have some very serious depth weaknesses as we stand today.[/B] So....we'll see. Sanchez becomes the next Manning, or even the next "Competant, Winning QB who Makes Others Better" then it's all good.

    We'll see.[/QUOTE]


    EXACTLY. Firstly this is why i wasn't crazy about the QB pick, but it's time to move and hope he develops to be worthy of the price we paid, but more importantly you second point i've highlighted.
    That is why i lost my mind this morning. [B]We've got serious issues with depth on this team, perticularly on DEF. [/B]WRs? ya we need 1 or 2, but there's still FA, that hole is easier to plug than the lack of security we have on defense in case of anything happening to our starters.
    not impressed.

  3. #3
    Maybe Sanchez becomes Brees, Hasselbeck or P. Rivers..Then it was worth everything..Who did we miss out on...no one knows..Maclin may suck. I thought Clemens deserved a shot..Obviously the Coaching staff were not in love with him..A QB needs that IT factor. They didn't believe Kellen had it. It's that simple.

  4. #4
    In 5 years, none of this will matter.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=bman;3104328]I thought Clemens deserved a shot..Obviously the Coaching staff were not in love with him.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think THIS can be said enough, actually.

    This move is clear in only one regard.....the Staff thinks Ratliff is not a Pro QB, and they think Clemens is at best a one-year lame duck bust-of-a-2nd-rounder in waiting. I guess credit to Tanny for seeing his pick, the pick designed to fill QB for years, was a watsed bust pick, and moving on.

    But I can't doubt now that Rex and Co were tellinf porkie pies....the two they had pre-draft, they had NO faith in in any form.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3104340]I don't think THIS can be said enough, actually.

    This move is clear in only one regard.....the Staff thinks Ratliff is not a Pro QB, and they think Clemens is at best a one-year lame duck bust-of-a-2nd-rounder in waiting. I guess credit to Tanny for seeing his pick, the pick designed to fill QB for years, was a watsed bust pick, and moving on.

    But I can't doubt now that Rex and Co were tellinf porkie pies....the two they had pre-draft, they had NO faith in in any form.[/QUOTE]

    If you believe the above then you and your posts are not in line. Pick a side please. We all agree that the JETS are not a SB team BUT, No team will be competitive w/o a QB. So , you admit that management doesn't like Clemens or the RAT YET you bash them for going after a QB?

    Playing both sides of the fence no?????

    All the beef in the world without a QB and we are 9 and 7. Clemens had MORE than enough opportunity.

    We need a QB! If not now, when?
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 04-26-2009 at 04:05 PM.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;3104365]If you believe the above then you and your posts are not in line. Pick a side please. We all agree that the JETS are not a SB team BUT, No team will be competitive w/o a QB. So , you admit that management doesn't like Clemens or the RAT YET you bash them for going after a QB?

    Playing both sides of the fence no?????

    All the beef in the world without a QB and we are 9 and 7. Clemens had MORE than enough opportunity.[/QUOTE]

    Boom or bust for Schotty... I'm sure he was in everyone's ear, saying Clemens/Rat couldn't cut it.

    If it works out for him, he's got a head coaching gig next year. I'm sure that played into the decision making process (from his perspective) just slightly...

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;3104365]If you believe the above then you and your posts are not in line. Pick a side please. We all agree that the JETS are not a SB team BUT, No team will be competitive w/o a QB. So , you admit that management doesn't like Clemens or the RAT YET you bash them for going after a QB?

    Playing both sides of the fence no?????

    All the beef in the world without a QB and we are 9 and 7. Clemens had MORE than enough opportunity.

    We need a QB! If not now, when?[/QUOTE]

    I don't think I'm on both sides.

    I (personally) think a Clemens/Ratliff year was (as I oft stated) 100% acceptable, and would not have traded up for Sanchez, but would instead have tried my hardest to trade down and aquire 2's and 3's and 4's. I believe both Clemens and Ratliff have #1 QB potential.

    But while I disagree with the move, it is still clear that REX and Co must have felt otherwise. I have to defer to them, they know vastly more than I do I would certainly hope.

    But no, this is not how I believe a champion is built. But as I said, we'll see.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3104340]I don't think THIS can be said enough, actually.

    This move is clear in only one regard.....the Staff thinks Ratliff is not a Pro QB, and they think Clemens is at best a one-year lame duck bust-of-a-2nd-rounder in waiting. I guess credit to Tanny for seeing his pick, the pick designed to fill QB for years, was a watsed bust pick, and moving on.

    But I can't doubt now that Rex and Co were tellinf [B]porkie pies[/B]....the two they had pre-draft, they had NO faith in in any form.[/QUOTE]

    LOL.... EM31 <--- Born within the sound of Bow bells.

  10. #10
    Fish,

    One of the things that Ryan credited Greene with is the strength of his vision and looking at the film it supports this. As for intelligence, I just saw his interview on NewYorkJets.com and I have to admit he seems a little slow. Not PatsFanTx* or FF** slow - I'm not saying hes is retarded but it is a little worrisome, but I am surprised that he said that the Jets were the only team that worked him out. With his production and highglights that surprised the hell out of me.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3104313]Traded away most of our picks, Redskins style, for the unquestionably "flashy" and "hyped" pick of Sanchez. [/QUOTE]

    Most? We traded ONE PICK to move up for Sanchez.

  12. #12
    what you're seeing is what you might have predicted with Rex Ryan... He's a gambler... willing to go all in... just like his dad was... if it works out great, but there remain other holes, for which we will have many bandaids. If it doesn't, we will be setting the team back for many years. I think this kid was worth it... helped to hear Simms, who was at his pro day, gush about him being the real deal... Simms seems to know a qb when he sees one.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Buzzsaw;3104400]Most? We traded ONE PICK to move up for Sanchez.[/QUOTE]

    IMO this is a biased way of stating the case.

    We traded what was available at 17 (In the case of QB's, thats Freeman, but plenty of others were available) and our Second (and anyone available then) and the three players involved, two of whom say quite a bit of playtime in 2008.

    So, no, with all due respect, the way I see it, we traded more than "one pick" to get Sanchez. We traded 5 roster spots, two of which would be first day pick-players, two of which were contributors, to get him.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3104444]IMO this is a biased way of stating the case.

    We traded what was available at 17 (In the case of QB's, thats Freeman, but plenty of others were available) and our Second (and anyone available then) and the three players involved, two of whom say quite a bit of playtime in 2008.

    So, no, with all due respect, the way I see it, we traded more than "one pick" to get Sanchez. We traded 5 roster spots, two of which would be first day pick-players, two of which were contributors, to get him.[/QUOTE]

    And when you add it up, its a very cheap price to pay for what the team believes is a franchise QB. We haven't had one of these in 40 years, can't blame them for going for it.

    To trade all the way up to #5 for a franchise QB and not have to throw in an aditional 1st or any pics in 2010 IMO was a steal.

  15. #15
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    let's be honest -- every year's draft is the "year of we'll see." It's just the nature of the beast.

    I agree with many of your concerns though. We traded 5 players for 1, then we traded another 3 players for 1. Those two players we got BETTER be good (particularly the first one). It's a high risk move...and that concerns me. Don't know enough about Sanchez (frankly, I don't watch enough college football) to have my own strong evaluation of him based on more than what I read. But I do know that we've taken a huge risk with this approach to this year's draft.

    I also know that with our first two picks we addressed one position (QB) that many hoped we could fill with the best of our two young, promising prospects (I guess they weren't that promising after all), and another position that we currently have filled with two all pros (Jones and Washington). Meanwhile, we have some gaping holes and some major depth problems that remain.

    Yes, it all concerns me. But...if Sanchez turns out to be the real deal, it will all be worth it. It will be interesting to watch -- it's the first time in my memory that the Jets have drafted one of the top two QB prospects.

  16. #16
    [I]"No doubt, I am a doubter by nature, more so when size and arm stength are considered two primary weaknesses of a player"[/I]


    see, this is how perceptions that are simply not factual begin to manifest. Where was it written or said by any draft analyst that Sanchez's arm is a [I]weakness[/I]?

    It never was. Mark Sanchez has a good NFL arm. He can make all the throws. That is not my opinion as i did not watch coaches' tape on him. that was the opinion of the sporting news scouts, pro football weekly, ron jaworski, simms, mayock, dilfer, lombardi and casserly-just to name a few off the top.

    now, what they said was that out of the top three qbs in this draft, sanchez's arm strength is third. But that is not the same as saying his arm strength is a [I]weakness[/I]. They also all said, in their own words, that his arm is plenty strong to make the necessary throws.

    no one knows if this move will be a success. time and win totals will determine that. but i hate to see perceptions being formed at this site by our fans based on beliefs that are simply not accurate.
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 04-26-2009 at 06:16 PM.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3104384]
    I believe both Clemens and Ratliff have #1 QB potential.
    [/QUOTE]

    Obviously Rex Ryan and Mike Tanenbaum disagree.

    I would have traded a 2nd for Campbell and used the 17 pick on a receiver but if Sanchez is as good as everyone says he is then it looks like Tanenbaum made a good move.

    Coleman and Elam were both mediocre and Ratliff was probably going to ride the bench this season until Clemens screwed up. The Jets really didn't give up alot to move up.

  18. #18
    I am not upset that the Jets got Sanchez, what does scare me is the fact that Maclin and Lesean McCoy slipped down to the 2 spots the Jets would have had w/out getting Sanchez, and as a Jet fan of 31 years I can't help but think that is a bad omen for Sanchez; it's only natural when you're a Jet fan for so long...
    Last edited by Kleckomania; 04-26-2009 at 06:31 PM.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;3104681][I]"No doubt, I am a doubter by nature, more so when size and arm stength are considered two primary weaknesses of a player"[/I]


    see, this is how perceptions that are simply not factual begin to manifest. Where was it written or said by any draft analyst that Sanchez's arm is a [I]weakness[/I]?

    It never was. Mark Sanchez has a good NFL arm. He can make all the throws. That is not my opinion as i did not watch coaches' tape on him. that was the opinion of the sporting news scouts, pro football weekly, ron jaworski, simms, mayock, dilfer, lombardi and casserly-just to name a few off the top.

    now, what they said was that out of the top three qbs in this draft, sanchez's arm strength is third. But that is not the same as saying his arm strength is a [I]weakness[/I]. They also all said, in their own words, that his arm is plenty strong to make the necessary throws.

    no one knows if this move will be a success. time and win totals will determine that. but i hate to see perceptions being formed at this site by our fans based on beliefs that are simply not accurate.[/QUOTE]

    He is 6'2". That speaks for itself.

    As for arm strength, I can watch highlights like the rest of you, but I can also read between the lines, for example:

    [QUOTE]Sanchez [U]doesn't have as much arm strength[/U] or the same body of work as Matt Stafford, but on the other hand teams have fallen [U]in love with his intangibles[/U] and arm accuracy during the offseason. There's a lot to like about his pocket presence and ability to elude the rush. We are concerned about rushing him into the starting lineup, but if any of this year's quarterback prospects have the mental toughness to learn on the fly Sanchez is the one.[/QUOTE]

    When a QB is described as "Accurate with Intangibles" in the same breath as discussion of having a weaker arm than his contemporaries, it's pretty obvious arm strength is a potential issue.

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    ***Intangibles***

    We have been here before

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