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Thread: Vernon Gholston and the uncapped year....

  1. #1
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    Vernon Gholston and the uncapped year....

    Interesting scenerio....

    Bust draft pick, forced to stay on our team for SEVERAL years because of his signing bonus....

    But if theres an uncapped year, i believe we are going to have a window to cut him for NO PENALTY next year.

    Savings? 10 million dollars.

    Senior Gholston: Show us somthing, or your gone. He better be praying they reach an agreement..

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    I agree, he's gotta show some sort of flashes other wise you can label him a bust.

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    I hate to burst your bubble on this one, but the chances of an un-capped season are ZERO (in my opinion). Not that I am against the concept, but mark my words..."it aint gonna happen".
    right now its just talk & posturing, in the negotiations...but I dont see it as a reality.

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    [QUOTE=Baddniss;3160987]I hate to burst your bubble on this one, but the chances of an un-capped season are ZERO (in my opinion). Not that I am against the concept, but mark my words..."it aint gonna happen".
    right now its just talk & posturing, in the negotiations...but I dont see it as a reality.[/QUOTE]

    oh its very realistic.....read up on it. They had a VERY difficult time negot the last agreement where several owners were upset about it, and they all voted to opt out of the agreement.

    Now they are going to try to get money back from the players? Fat chance thats happening....There are a million hurdles to overcome...there is a VERY good chance of the new agreement to not come until after the uncapped year---Just too many hurdles...The draft, more games, money, revenue sharing, owners profits(that the players have not seen fully)...

    I would be betting on a uncapped year...

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    [QUOTE=Kerry Rhodes;3160991]oh its very realistic.....read up on it. They had a VERY difficult time negot the last agreement where several owners were upset about it, and they all voted to opt out of the agreement.

    Now they are going to try to get money back from the players? Fat chance thats happening....There are a million hurdles to overcome...there is a VERY good chance of the new agreement to not come until after the uncapped year---Just too many hurdles...The draft, more games, money, revenue sharing, owners profits(that the players have not seen fully)...

    I would be betting on a uncapped year...[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. But personally if we do have an uncapped year. it aint ever gonna go back to the way it was.

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    [QUOTE=Kerry Rhodes;3160967]Interesting scenerio....

    Bust draft pick, forced to stay on our team for SEVERAL years because of his signing bonus....

    But if theres an uncapped year, i believe we are going to have a window to cut him for NO PENALTY next year.

    Savings? 10 million dollars.

    Senior Gholston: Show us somthing, or your gone. He better be praying they reach an agreement..[/QUOTE]

    Exactly what I posted in another thread. If he does not pick it up he'll get cut in an uncapped year.

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    Can someone explain why cutting Gholston in an uncapped year is better than cutting him in a capped year?

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    [QUOTE=Kerry Rhodes;3160991]oh its very realistic.....read up on it. They had a VERY difficult time negot the last agreement where several owners were upset about it, and they all voted to opt out of the agreement.

    Now they are going to try to get money back from the players? Fat chance thats happening....There are a million hurdles to overcome...there is a VERY good chance of the new agreement to not come until after the uncapped year---Just too many hurdles...The draft, more games, money, revenue sharing, owners profits(that the players have not seen fully)...

    I would be betting on a uncapped year...[/QUOTE]

    Putting aside whether there will be or won't be last year, I'm not so sure its as simple as cutting him with no dead money going forward. There are a lot provisions that kick in in the event of an uncapped year. I won't pretend to know half of the ramifications, but I don't know that we can simply cut him and walk away.

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    Uncapped year is a very realistic occurrence. I don't think it will happen, but there is a strong possibility it will.

    Interesting scenario, KR. [B]BUT[/B], KR, do you know the actual ramifications if the Jets cut Gholston in the uncapped year?

    I ask because there are some weird uncapped year rules we already know about (UFA after 6 yrs rather than 4, playoff teams can only sign 1 FA, etc.). There may be a weird rule concerning cutting a player with a huge pro-rated signing bonus. I just don't know.

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    [QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3161029]Can someone explain why cutting Gholston in an uncapped year is better than cutting him in a capped year?[/QUOTE]

    Accellerated signing bonus and dead money. Under the normal system if a team cut's a player with a pro-rated signing bonus the remainder of the bonus is accelerated to the year the player is cut.

    So, for example, if the player's 2009 cap number is $4 million, but he has $12 million prorated on his signing bonus for the 4 years remaining on his contract, by cutting the player in 2009 his cap hit will be $16 million.

    In an uncapped year accelleration would be meaningless because teams don't have to worry about a cap hit.

    Remember, for prorated signing bonuses the cap number is not real money. The signing bonus has already been paid. It's just an accounting method of including the money on the cap for subsequent years.

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    I actually tried digging up some information on this very topic and still have not found a concrete answer. I believe, though, that if the salary cap comes back you would have to account for cutting VG in the uncapped year. The CBA is very clear that there is only acceleration of signing bonus money in capped years, meaning a player cut next year, if uncapped, would only see his proration for the current year accelerate and the remainder would remain on the books. I guess it would be just like a June 1st cut. If things get so far and they do not have a new deal in place before free agency next year this would be something that probably needs to be spelled out for players who were cut and had SB money remaining on their deals.

    After this year the Jets are still on the hook for close to 9 million owed to Gholston. Now if the year was uncapped and the Jets paid him that full amount as soon as they cut him I believe that would take it all off the books except the portion of the advance they gave him.

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    Hopefully Gholston pans out and it is a moot discussion.

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    [QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3161029]Can someone explain why cutting Gholston in an uncapped year is better than cutting him in a capped year?[/QUOTE]

    A player's signing bonus is deferred and amortized over the lifetime of his contract. In essence, if the player gets a signing bonus of $10M for a 5 year deal it all doesnt hit in the first year, rather it is spread over all 5. However, if the player is released, the signing bonus gets written-off. So if a player is in year 2 of a 5 year contract and there is still $8M on the books from his signing bonus and he gets cut, the full $8M counts agianst the cap but you save the annual salary. In an uncapped year, however, you have all the room in the world to dump players are not worth their salary without having to worry about being in cap hell.

    This is of course if what Jason said is untrue and whether you have to absorb the hit when the salary cap came back.

    Hope this helps

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    [QUOTE=SMC;3161036]Accellerated signing bonus and dead money. Under the normal system if a team cut's a player with a pro-rated signing bonus the remainder of the bonus is accelerated to the year the player is cut.

    So, for example, if the player's 2009 cap number is $4 million, but he has $12 million prorated on his signing bonus for the 4 years remaining on his contract, by cutting the player in 2009 his cap hit will be $16 million.

    In an uncapped year accelleration would be meaningless because teams don't have to worry about a cap hit.

    Remember, for prorated signing bonuses the cap number is not real money. The signing bonus has already been paid. It's just an accounting method of including the money on the cap for subsequent years.[/QUOTE]

    this my friend helped me out in understanding this

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    Hopefully Gholston will improve in the new system. I don't think Ryan and Co. will keep him around if he isn't producing.

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    [QUOTE=SMC;3161036]Accellerated signing bonus and dead money. Under the normal system if a team cut's a player with a pro-rated signing bonus the remainder of the bonus is accelerated to the year the player is cut.

    So, for example, if the player's 2009 cap number is $4 million, but he has $12 million prorated on his signing bonus for the 4 years remaining on his contract, by cutting the player in 2009 his cap hit will be $16 million.

    In an uncapped year accelleration would be meaningless because teams don't have to worry about a cap hit.

    Remember, for prorated signing bonuses the cap number is not real money. The signing bonus has already been paid. It's just an accounting method of including the money on the cap for subsequent years.[/QUOTE]

    KR

    This is the exact reason why the Players Assn would NEVER let a fully un-capped year occur. Yes there is upside, but in this down economy, there is MUCH MORE downside. Every team would be doing the "Gholston cut" to numerous players that year, flushing the crap out of their systems. Take my word for it, the PA knows there is much more risk in that than there is upside (in a bad economy) for no cap on salaries for 1 season.

    Wont happen.

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    This genius thought just hit me: full contact drills don't start until training camp and Gholston's famous strength is only useful in full contact situations. So maybe VG sucking during OTAs is not the kiss of death everyone thinks it is. Maybe when they get to full contact he will be shoving people around. I still think this kid can be a good DE but he really needs to be in situations where he's using his strength, not his speed or the brain he supposedly has. Just look at the sacks he got at OSU, they were all based on overpowering a blocker.

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    [QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3161498]This genius thought just hit me: full contact drills don't start until training camp and Gholston's famous strength is only useful in full contact situations. So maybe VG sucking during OTAs is not the kiss of death everyone thinks it is. Maybe when they get to full contact he will be shoving people around. I still think this kid can be a good DE but he really needs to be in situations where he's using his strength, not his speed or the brain he supposedly has. Just look at the sacks he got at OSU, they were all based on overpowering a blocker.[/QUOTE]

    Vernon Gholston's best day of his life was in shorts and a Tshirt, at the combine....the problem he has is anytime he makes contact with a NFL lineman.

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    [QUOTE=Kerry Rhodes;3160991]

    [B]Now they are going to try to get money back from the players? Fat chance thats happening....[/B]There are a million hurdles to overcome...there is a VERY good chance of the new agreement to not come until after the uncapped year---Just too many hurdles...The draft, more games, money, revenue sharing, owners profits(that the players have not seen fully)...

    I would be betting on a uncapped year...[/QUOTE]

    It happened in the NHL a few years back when they lost the whole season. The players bet the teams would not risk losing a season and they did, and the players union folded like a piece of paper. There was a 24 percent (?) roughly rollback on salaries right across the NHL....don't think the NFL didn't notice that.

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    [QUOTE=Kerry Rhodes;3160991]oh its very realistic.....read up on it. They had a VERY difficult time negot the last agreement where several owners were upset about it, and they all voted to opt out of the agreement.

    Now they are going to try to get money back from the players? Fat chance thats happening....There are a million hurdles to overcome...there is a VERY good chance of the new agreement to not come until after the uncapped year---Just too many hurdles...The draft, more games, money, revenue sharing, owners profits(that the players have not seen fully)...

    I would be betting on a uncapped year...[/QUOTE]

    Highly unlikely.

    Few seem to realize that there are poison pills that will go into effect if there is an uncapped year.

    Starting with playoff teams are not allowed to sign free agents.

    Aint happening.

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