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Thread: WORLD SERIES GAME 3 THREAD: YANKEES VS. PHILLIES @ CITIZENS BANK PARK

  1. #21
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    Matsui in the OF is a disaster because he has 2 surgically repaired knees. He can barely move now.

    Unless the ball is hit right at him, every hit to left field will at least be a double with him out there.

  2. #22
    No chance in hell that Matsui gets time in the OF. He hasn't played a single game out there all season, the WS is the time to throw him out there? You'd be surprised how big an impact his defense can have on the game. Save him as a nice pinch hitter.

  3. #23
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    just heard on ESPN radio that Blanton is def. pitching game 4 (sorry no link)

  4. #24
    Blanton pitching game 4 per Charlie Manuel...

  5. #25
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    If the Yanks win Game 3 (come on, bats!!!!!), then I'd roll the die with Gaudin in Game 4. Worse case scenario the teams are tied 2-2.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    If the Yanks win Game 3 (come on, bats!!!!!), then I'd roll the die with Gaudin in Game 4. Worse case scenario the teams are tied 2-2.
    Why in the world would you give Gaudin the ball in game 4 when you have CC Sabathia??? why even consider taking that gamble???

    Why not pitch Sabathia and go up 3-1? CC can pitch on 3 days rest...The best move is to go for the 3-1 lead with CC in game 4 and pitch Gaudin in 5...that gives you 2 games in NY to win number 27 with Burnett in game 6 on full rest at the stadium followed by CC/Andy/Mo in game 7 if needed...

    It's a no brainer here, no matter what you pitch Sabathia in game 4...
    Last edited by nyctomjetsfan; 10-30-2009 at 03:44 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    Why in the world would you give Gaudin the ball in game 4 when you have CC Sabathia??? why even consider taking that gamble???

    Why not pitch Sabathia and go up 3-1? CC can pitch on 3 days rest...The best move is to go for the 3-1 lead with CC in game 4 and pitch Gaudin in 5...that gives you 2 games in NY to win number 27 with Burnett in game 6 on full rest at the stadium followed by CC/Andy/Mo in game 7 if needed...

    It's a no brainer here, no matter what you pitch Sabathia in game 4...
    I hear you.

    I just think the Yanks can steal one with Gaudin vs. Blanton, so that the Yanks would be 3-1 with 1 game to win with CC, AJ, and Pettite on the mound.

    I prefer those 3 with a chance to clinch than Gaudin, AJ & Pettite.

    Putting Gaudin against Lee is like conceeding a game. That doesn't make sense to me. Might as well put Gaudin against Blanton which is a better matchup.

    Plus, with CC in game 5 rather than 4, the bullpen will likely have extra rest (2 days--game 5 & off day) if they have to work long in game 4.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    Why in the world would you give Gaudin the ball in game 4 when you have CC Sabathia??? why even consider taking that gamble???

    Why not pitch Sabathia and go up 3-1? CC can pitch on 3 days rest...The best move is to go for the 3-1 lead with CC in game 4 and pitch Gaudin in 5...that gives you 2 games in NY to win number 27 with Burnett in game 6 on full rest at the stadium followed by CC/Andy/Mo in game 7 if needed...

    It's a no brainer here, no matter what you pitch Sabathia in game 4...
    I agree 100%. You pitch CC to either go up 3-1, and for all intents and purposes end the series, or you pitch him to tie up the series and make this a best of three with two of them at home.

    IMO we take Game 3 with Pettitte, and Game 4 with CC.
    We probably lose Game 5 Gaudin vs Lee, and take it at home Game 6 with AJ pitching another gem.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    I hear you.

    I just think the Yanks can steal one with Gaudin vs. Blanton, so that the Yanks would be 3-1 with 1 game to win with CC, AJ, and Pettite on the mound.

    I prefer those 3 with a chance to clinch than Gaudin, AJ & Pettite.

    Putting Gaudin against Lee is like conceeding a game. That doesn't make sense to me. Might as well put Gaudin against Blanton which is a better matchup.

    Plus, with CC in game 5 rather than 4, the bullpen will likely have extra rest (2 days--game 5 & off day) if they have to work long in game 4.
    The Phillies will have an advantage in any game we pitch Gaudin...do we have a better chance starting Gaudin against Blanton? Yes but the Phillies are still the overwhelming favorites in that match up...Gaudin has pitched 1 inning in the last month and quite frankly he isn’t all that good to begin with...

    You have to go for the kill with Sabathia in game 4 and ensure we’re at least going home with a series lead...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan1983 View Post
    No he's not... We have yet to ever see Matsui play that bad out there. he hasn't gotten a chance at all.

    He's not fast but that is no different than having Hinske out there.

    I've seen Matsui leg out a couple potential double plays to know that he can really push it if he has to. This is the world series and there is no need to preserve him for the rest of the season anymore.

    Matsui is a streaky hitter and right now it looks like he may be on a good streak. He is good enough to carry us to a win or two if he's on that type of streak.
    Matsui was a terrible defender before his second knee surgery, what makes you think he'd be even up to that level now? And "legging out" those doubles doesn't mean he can get to a fly ball or line drive, its completely different. Stopping and starting on those knees is what will be really hard, meaning he'll have such a bad jump on the ball he'll be nowhere near it. That's ignoring how bad he was before at judging fly balls, taking the right angle, and playing near the wall. Just a terrible, terrible idea.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    The Phillies will have an advantage in any game we pitch Gaudin...do we have a better chance starting Gaudin against Blanton? Yes but the Phillies are still the overwhelming favorites in that match up...Gaudin has pitched 1 inning in the last month and quite frankly he isn’t all that good to begin with...

    You have to go for the kill with Sabathia in game 4 and ensure we’re at least going home with a series lead...
    This is why we don't start Gaudin at all.

    If the Yanks can win tomorrow, which would be huge, and Charlie is really dumb enough to pitch Blanton, then the Yanks have a real chance to be up 3-1 and slam the door on the series by pitching AJ in game 5. You simply have to, rather than giving the Phillies the auto-win with Lee vs. Gaudin.

    If the Phillies win that game, then you go back to NY with Andy and CC lined up against Hammels and Pedro. you have to like those chances.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    This is why we don't start Gaudin at all.

    If the Yanks can win tomorrow, which would be huge, and Charlie is really dumb enough to pitch Blanton, then the Yanks have a real chance to be up 3-1 and slam the door on the series by pitching AJ in game 5. You simply have to, rather than giving the Phillies the auto-win with Lee vs. Gaudin.

    If the Phillies win that game, then you go back to NY with Andy and CC lined up against Hammels and Pedro. you have to like those chances.
    You have to pitch Gaudin…

    It's ok to lose a game here, we don't have to rap it up in Philly...

    Burnett and Pettitte on 3 days rest is not a good move at all...you want to put those guys in a situation they can succeed...Burnett pitching at the stadium on full rest with Molina catching gives you a much better chance of rapping this thing up than Burnett on 3 days rest in Philly with Posada catching...A 37 year old Pettitte on 3 days rest isn’t a good idea either for obvious reasons…

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    You have to pitch Gaudin…

    It's ok to lose a game here, we don't have to rap it up in Philly...

    Burnett and Pettitte on 3 days rest is not a good move at all...you want to put those guys in a situation they can succeed...Burnett pitching at the stadium on full rest with Molina catching gives you a much better chance of rapping this thing up than Burnett on 3 days rest in Philly with Posada catching...A 37 year old Pettitte on 3 days rest isn’t a good idea either for obvious reasons…
    First of all, you are simply assuming the Yankees will win the next two. With their offense playing as it has, I wouldn't count on anything. If they lose one of the next two games you have no choice but start AJ on 3 days rest. Not that it should really be anything else anyways.

    Not a good move why? "Situation they can succeed?" Burnett has pitched on three days rest and never lost. How is that not a position he can't succeed? Pettitte on 3 days rest and the BP ready is a much much better option than Guadin on a month's rest and the BP ready. Would you rather be down 6-0 after 3 or see what you have with Andy?

    As I documented in the other thread, Gaudin vs. Lee is as close to an automatic win for the Phillies as you can get. This is the World Series, you can't simply hand the other team a victory like that. You'd rather have Andy only pitch once, have Gaudin pitch in the freaking WS in Philly, and risk the series on one of your lesser players?

    Its the same reason you bring in Rivera for 2 innings--you don't lose the WS with your fill ins, you go down swinging or go for the jugular with the best you have. Its only one game for each of them.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    First of all, you are simply assuming the Yankees will win the next two. With their offense playing as it has, I wouldn't count on anything. If they lose one of the next two games you have no choice but start AJ on 3 days rest. Not that it should really be anything else anyways.

    Not a good move why? "Situation they can succeed?" Burnett has pitched on three days rest and never lost. How is that not a position he can't succeed? Pettitte on 3 days rest and the BP ready is a much much better option than Guadin on a month's rest and the BP ready. Would you rather be down 6-0 after 3 or see what you have with Andy?

    As I documented in the other thread, Gaudin vs. Lee is as close to an automatic win for the Phillies as you can get. This is the World Series, you can't simply hand the other team a victory like that. You'd rather have Andy only pitch once, have Gaudin pitch in the freaking WS in Philly, and risk the series on one of your lesser players?

    Its the same reason you bring in Rivera for 2 innings--you don't lose the WS with your fill ins, you go down swinging or go for the jugular with the best you have. Its only one game for each of them.
    You really are the smartest poster in the baseball forum.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    You really are the smartest poster in the baseball forum.
    Whether or not that was sarcasm, I'll take it as not, so thanks!

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham View Post
    Its "strategy" my friend

    Didn't you ever read Sun Tzu?

    Sometimes you may have to lose a battle in order to win the war

    For example, the "Rope-A-Dope"

    Ali deployed the peek-a-boo and let Foreman punch himself out, then lowered the boom when his opponent was spent

    Foreman won all of the early rounds and Ali knew it, but he was sacrificing some early rounds in order to win the war

    STRATEGY
    That only works if its a good strategy, which in this case its not

    If the Yanks are up 3-1, giving the Phillies some life with an easy win and potentially igniting their offense for the possibility of a better matchup is a terrible idea.

    If you want to talk strategy, either you're willing to go into battle with your big guns, your best laying it all on the line and not allowing the enemy the chance to breathe or recover, or you shouldn't go into battle.

    You never, ever, give the enemy the initiative or the chance to recover. If you have the chance to kill, you kill.

    Sun Tzu also said "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns" and "the good fighter is able to secure himself against defeat, but cannot make certain of defeating the enemy."

    In no way should the Yankees allow the series to extend beyond where it should. All they can do in that regard is put the best product on the field, which in no way shape or form involves Chad Gaudin.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    First of all, you are simply assuming the Yankees will win the next two. With their offense playing as it has, I wouldn't count on anything. If they lose one of the next two games you have no choice but start AJ on 3 days rest. Not that it should really be anything else anyways.

    Not a good move why? "Situation they can succeed?" Burnett has pitched on three days rest and never lost. How is that not a position he can't succeed? Pettitte on 3 days rest and the BP ready is a much much better option than Guadin on a month's rest and the BP ready. Would you rather be down 6-0 after 3 or see what you have with Andy?

    As I documented in the other thread, Gaudin vs. Lee is as close to an automatic win for the Phillies as you can get. This is the World Series, you can't simply hand the other team a victory like that. You'd rather have Andy only pitch once, have Gaudin pitch in the freaking WS in Philly, and risk the series on one of your lesser players?

    Its the same reason you bring in Rivera for 2 innings--you don't lose the WS with your fill ins, you go down swinging or go for the jugular with the best you have. Its only one game for each of them.
    Of course nothing is a given and we’re all assuming here...The whole premise of your post is based on the assumption that Gaudin will lose his start...

    Comparing this situation to Mo is also absolutely ludicrous...This is no where near the same situation as going to Mo for 6 outs...Mo doesn’t have a problem pitching away from YS and doesn’t need a personal catcher...

    The fact Burnett has gone on 3 days rest and has been successful is great but it’s a very small sample size...More importantly though, why are you completely disregarding the fact Burnett needs to pitch to Molina plus he’s been a much better pitcher at YS this year? Burnett is much more comfortable at YS with Molina catching and we have a whole seasons worth of stats that clearly indicate that...

    The only way Burnett should get the ball in game 5 imo is if we’re facing elimination because you don’t have a choice...I don’t feel he can be successful in Philadelphia and if you look at his stats its obvious why...Pitching Burnett in a 2-2/3-1 situation in Philadelphia is a waste because it could very well likely yield you the same result as pitching Gaudin...Burnett’s worst postseason start was on the road...He gave up 7 runs in Anaheim on full rest and with Molina for most of his innings...Why waste him in a situation he is clearly less comfortable in if you can pitch him in game 6 at the stadium where he is much more comfortable?

    Pettitte is 37 years old and his arm went dead on him in September sidelining him for a couple of starts...did you forget that? you really think he can go on 3 days rest? Sure he’d probably be more effective than Gaudin but why not have him on full rest if the possibility presents itself?

    Bottomline, I would rather have Burnett and Pettitte comfortable where they give us a better chance to win this thing...I understand Gaudin is as close to an automatic loss as possible but there is no way around it...You have to take the chance and pitch him...Losing one non elimination game won’t cost you the series but running guys out there in situations they’re not comfortable in undoubtedly will...The Yankees best shot at winning this thing is getting it back to NY with a lead and Burnett on the mound in game 6...
    Last edited by nyctomjetsfan; 10-30-2009 at 08:48 PM.

  18. #38
    Some great back and forth discussion in this thread, and in this subforum in general.

    Hope you guys appreciate that this is better than a lot of the mindless homerism, and lack of dialogue, that goes on at a lot of Yankees boards (the old Yesnetwork.com forums were particularly unbearable).

    I love being Jets/Yankees. It's great perspective. I have a feeling you guys feel the same.

    My opinion on all this? CC game 4 no matter what. Blanton is a gift to us, let's step on it.
    Last edited by Astoria; 10-30-2009 at 10:14 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham View Post
    I like that, SD, quoting Sun Tzu!

    Hey, to be a Yankee fan, you must know and understand the truly great notions of power

    Besides, such things are my are, what can I say

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    Of course nothing is a given and we’re all assuming here...The whole premise of your post is based on the assumption that Gaudin will lose his start...

    Comparing this situation to Mo is also absolutely ludicrous...This is no where near the same situation as going to Mo for 6 outs...Mo doesn’t have a problem pitching away from YS and doesn’t need a personal catcher...
    Well, here's a challenge: construct an argument that in any way suggests that Guadin can win and offer something that backs it up? Because there really is no stats that in any way back that up. In fact, they indicate that he'll get shelled.

    And, while AJ's stats on the road are a bit worse, the difference really isn't all that big. He's given up more earned runs, but the rest of his #s are pretty much the same. Basically, his BABIP is higher on the road, and that a bit fluky.

    But its not about Mo's stats vs. AJ's stats, its about the mentality. You go to Mo because you want to end the game there and not give the other team any hope, period. Same thing goes here. Why allow the Phillies the chance to regain momentum and possibly awaken their bats?

    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    The fact Burnett has gone on 3 days rest and has been successful is great but it’s a very small sample size...More importantly though, why are you completely disregarding the fact Burnett needs to pitch to Molina plus he’s been a much better pitcher at YS this year? Burnett is much more comfortable at YS with Molina catching and we have a whole seasons worth of stats that clearly indicate that...
    Burnett doesn't "need" to pitch to Molina, in fact, he's said he's fine pitching to Posada and the stats back it up. GIRARDI thinks he needs to pitch to Jose.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    The only way Burnett should get the ball in game 5 imo is if we’re facing elimination because you don’t have a choice...I don’t feel he can be successful in Philadelphia and if you look at his stats its obvious why...Pitching Burnett in a 2-2/3-1 situation in Philadelphia is a waste because it could very well likely yield you the same result as pitching Gaudin...Burnett’s worst postseason start was on the road...He gave up 7 runs in Anaheim on full rest and with Molina for most of his innings...Why waste him in a situation he is clearly less comfortable in if you can pitch him in game 6 at the stadium where he is much more comfortable?
    You don't think Burnett can be successful in Philly, but you think Guadin stands a chance??? And then you offer evidence why it doesn't matter who he pitches to. Its not a waste because even taking his road start into account, he made it to the 7th allowing 4 runs. Then Girardi totally messed things up. Do you really think Guadin is capable of half of that?

    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    Pettitte is 37 years old and his arm went dead on him in September sidelining him for a couple of starts...did you forget that? you really think he can go on 3 days rest? Sure he’d probably be more effective than Gaudin but why not have him on full rest if the possibility presents itself?
    He had some shoulder discomfort, they rested him and he got lots of rest at the end, and has shown no ill effects since. We are talking about one game, it doesn't matter what happens AFTERWARDS. Yes, I really think he is capable of buckling down for 5-6 innings for one game.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    Bottomline, I would rather have Burnett and Pettitte comfortable where they give us a better chance to win this thing...I understand Gaudin is as close to an automatic loss as possible but there is no way around it...You have to take the chance and pitch him...Losing one non elimination game won’t cost you the series but running guys out there in situations they’re not comfortable in undoubtedly will...The Yankees best shot at winning this thing is getting it back to NY with a lead and Burnett on the mound in game 6...
    No, there is a way around it: don't start him. You can't look to the future at a possible better matchup, you have to play game by game and try to win every game. YOu can construct the exact same argument you are offering but from the Phillies side: they are down 3-1, beat up Guadin, beat AJ at home (they weren't all that far off, and whats to say bad AJ doesn't show up?), and then they are facing a winner take all game 7. And you know what, then that game you sacrificed will really hurt. You simply cannot give away games in the World Series. Its a terrible, terrible strategy.

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