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Thread: Teixeira and Jeter win Gold Gloves

  1. #1
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    Teixeira and Jeter win Gold Gloves

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

    C: Joe Mauer
    1B: Mark Teixeira
    2B: Placido Polanco
    3B: Evan Longoria
    SS: Derek Jeter
    OF: Torii Hunter
    OF: Ichiro Suzuki
    OF: Adam Jones
    P: Mark Buehrle
    Last edited by Tyler Durden; 11-10-2009 at 03:40 PM.

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    This might be Jeters' first legit one...though the complete lack of competition certainly helps him. Andrus probably actually deserved it...but w/e.

    Congrats to both of them. I had nooooo clue Tex was so good with the glove.

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    Even this year, Jeter was only 5th best in the AL by UZR.......But at least it's closer then previous years.

    I'll never expect the Cesar Izturis's of the world to actually get legit Gold Glove consideration though, even thought he was by far the most deserving candidate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    Even this year, Jeter was only 5th best in the AL by UZR.......But at least it's closer then previous years.

    I'll never expect the Cesar Izturis's of the world to actually get legit Gold Glove consideration though, even thought he was by far the most deserving candidate.
    When a stat tells you Mark Teixiera is a subpar defensive player then you know it's useless. UZR is useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    When a stat tells you Mark Teixiera is a subpar defensive player then you know it's useless. UZR is useless.
    +1

    Congrats to both of them, well earned, especially Mark's...

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    worst award given out every year. bernie williams was not a good fielder and he won 4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    When a stat tells you Mark Teixiera is a subpar defensive player then you know it's useless. UZR is useless.
    UZR isn't intended to be a sole measure of defensive ability, it's goal is simply to be as accurate a depiction available of one aspect of a players defense, the players range (Granted, it cannot be understated how important having good range is, but it is not the only relevant factor here)...granted there are some adjustments for turning the DP, Arm Strength, and Errors in modern versions, but it is still not complete by any means.

    You can't really make the generalization that Mark Teixeira is a subpar defensive player because he has a below-average UZR. All UZR says is that he doesn't cover as much ground against groundballs as some of his defensive counterparts, which is only one aspect of playing 1B defensively.

    UZR doesn't account for being excellent at picking difficult throws in the dirt and grabbing errant throws from teammates. Something that Teixeira excels at, but is not something that is covered in UZR.

    It seems the problem is more a misuse of UZR to imply that it's some kind of defensive super-stat rather then understanding it for what it is.
    Last edited by Ven0m; 11-10-2009 at 04:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sect313 View Post
    worst award given out every year. bernie williams was not a good fielder and he won 4

    I guess you are base your assessment of Bernie Williams on the later part of his career, but in his prime he was a excellent outfielder whom covered centerfold in Yankee Stadium most gracefully with an adequate throwing arm. Unfortunately some fans just remember his last year or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boynton Beach Jets View Post
    I guess you are base your assessment of Bernie Williams on the later part of his career, but in his prime he was a excellent outfielder whom covered centerfold in Yankee Stadium most gracefully with an adequate throwing arm. Unfortunately some fans just remember his last year or two.
    Bernie was the goods in his day.

    I'm happy for Jeter and Teixeira...but I dont believe Jeter would have won that award with Giambi at first.

    The reason we saw what a great fielder Tex was, was the amount of error saving scoops of what should have been routine throws, out of the dirt.

    That being said, no doubt Jeter improved his range so that the phrase "past a diving Jeter" was heard less this year. Props to him for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Bernie was the goods in his day.

    I'm happy for Jeter and Teixeira...but I dont believe Jeter would have won that award with Giambi at first.

    The reason we saw what a great fielder Tex was, was the amount of error saving scoops of what should have been routine throws, out of the dirt.

    That being said, no doubt Jeter improved his range so that the phrase "past a diving Jeter" was heard less this year. Props to him for that.
    Tex definately helped out Jeter.

    Errors is not the best barrometer, but it's amazing that Jeter had 8 errors and the average for all other shortstops was 17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Bernie was the goods in his day.

    I'm happy for Jeter and Teixeira...but I dont believe Jeter would have won that award with Giambi at first.

    The reason we saw what a great fielder Tex was, was the amount of error saving scoops of what should have been routine throws, out of the dirt.

    That being said, no doubt Jeter improved his range so that the phrase "past a diving Jeter" was heard less this year. Props to him for that.

    I agree with Tex helping Jeter and the rest of the infield out but Jeter had a much better offensively and defensively 2009 season then 2008.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    UZR isn't intended to be a sole measure of defensive ability, it's goal is simply to be as accurate a depiction available of one aspect of a players defense, the players range (Granted, it cannot be understated how important having good range is, but it is not the only relevant factor here)...granted there are some adjustments for turning the DP, Arm Strength, and Errors in modern versions, but it is still not complete by any means.

    You can't really make the generalization that Mark Teixeira is a subpar defensive player because he has a below-average UZR. All UZR says is that he doesn't cover as much ground against groundballs as some of his defensive counterparts, which is only one aspect of playing 1B defensively.

    UZR doesn't account for being excellent at picking difficult throws in the dirt and grabbing errant throws from teammates. Something that Teixeira excels at, but is not something that is covered in UZR.

    It seems the problem is more a misuse of UZR to imply that it's some kind of defensive super-stat rather then understanding it for what it is.
    I think that is what makes defensive ability so difficult to rate. There are just so many countless advanced stats for defense that all need to be considered together. There is still nothing better than plain watching a player play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sect313 View Post
    worst award given out every year. bernie williams was not a good fielder and he won 4
    Bernie was a terrific fielder with a less then terrific arm. The guy was about as smooth as it gets out there in center and could cover an awful lot of ground. He would also read the ball off the bat incredibly well.

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    If you want to be honest Jeter getting this confirms what a joke it is.

    Tex is deserved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2® View Post
    If you want to be honest Jeter getting this confirms what a joke it is.

    Tex is deserved.
    There are maybe one or two names who could be placed in front of him, clearly and concisely...

    How many Yankee games were you watching this year Tx?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite View Post
    There are maybe one or two names who could be placed in front of him, clearly and concisely...

    How many Yankee games were you watching this year Tx?
    Yes I know there are. Thank you for agreeing.

    I probably saw about 40 Yankee games this year.

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    Jeter actually played the best defense of his career this year, IMO. He sure as hell didn't deserve the Gold Glove (which we all know is a joke of an award), but it's not as egregious as others that have won it, including Jeter's previous wins.

    But this isn't a Jeter thing anyways. The fact that Orlando Hudson won in the NL is just as much of a joke. And Rollins winning over Tulowitzki is just absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2® View Post
    Yes I know there are. Thank you for agreeing.

    I probably saw about 40 Yankee games this year.
    What do you want? Jeter winning is better than Raf Palmiero winning after only playing 27 games at first, and 130 as a DH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    UZR isn't intended to be a sole measure of defensive ability, it's goal is simply to be as accurate a depiction available of one aspect of a players defense, the players range (Granted, it cannot be understated how important having good range is, but it is not the only relevant factor here)...granted there are some adjustments for turning the DP, Arm Strength, and Errors in modern versions, but it is still not complete by any means.

    You can't really make the generalization that Mark Teixeira is a subpar defensive player because he has a below-average UZR. All UZR says is that he doesn't cover as much ground against groundballs as some of his defensive counterparts, which is only one aspect of playing 1B defensively.

    UZR doesn't account for being excellent at picking difficult throws in the dirt and grabbing errant throws from teammates. Something that Teixeira excels at, but is not something that is covered in UZR.

    It seems the problem is more a misuse of UZR to imply that it's some kind of defensive super-stat rather then understanding it for what it is.
    Thats the problem with alot of the relationship between baseball fan and stats. Too many baseball fans assume that the stat is trying to tell you more than it's telling you, and therefore treat them with disdain.

    I miss the early 2000's sabermetrics debates...those used to get ridiculous.

    The GG is a joke.

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    According to the Yankees PR department Jeter ‘gained a step at 35 years of age’.

    Why isn’t anyone questioning this?

    If this was said of ANY OTHER MLB player there would be talk of drug use.

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