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Thread: Lincecum wins second straight Cy Young

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan View Post
    Lincecum was better than both of those guys. Wins and losses really don't matter in terms of how well a pitcher pitched.
    You make it sound like it was a clear cut case.

    The fact was that 21 voters voted No. 1 for the Cardinals' pitchers rather than Lincecum.

    The first place votes were Lincecum (11), Carpenter (9) and Wainwright (12), but 2 of the voters than voted for Lincecum didn't even have Carpenter on their ballots. That cost Carpenter dearly.

    It's not just wins-losses, but that was a glaring example. You guys are hung up on strikeouts, but that is not the end-all be all of pitching dominance.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    You make it sound like it was a clear cut case.

    The fact was that 21 voters voted No. 1 for the Cardinals' pitchers rather than Lincecum.

    The first place votes were Lincecum (11), Carpenter (9) and Wainwright (12), but 2 of the voters than voted for Lincecum didn't even have Carpenter on their ballots. That cost Carpenter dearly.

    It's not just wins-losses, but that was a glaring example. You guys are hung up on strikeouts, but that is not the end-all be all of pitching dominance.
    You're too focused on the fact that Carpenter pitched in the playoffs. Tim Lincecum has been the best pitcher on any team in the NL the past 2 years.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chica me Tipo View Post
    You're too focused on the fact that Carpenter pitched in the playoffs. Tim Lincecum has been the best pitcher on any team in the NL the past 2 years.
    Huh? Carpenter wasn't even good in the playoffs. You're way off base on that, Chica.

    This is the reason I think Carpenter was more deserving of the Cy Young:

    1. Carpenter had a better WHIP, ERA, and winning percentage than Lincecum.

    2. Carpenter was the better road pitcher.

    3. Carpenter was 8-1 with a 2.30 ERA in August through the end of the regular season while Lincecum was 4-4 with 2.78 ERA in that time.

    That said, I'm surprised no one appreciates the fact that the Cardinal pitchers split the vote and that's the reason why Lincecum won. 66% of the voters didn't think Lincecum should get the Cy Young. He couldn't even get a plurality.
    Last edited by SMC; 11-20-2009 at 11:19 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    Huh? Carpenter wasn't even good in the playoffs. You're way off base on that, Chica.

    This is the reason I think Carpenter was more deserving of the Cy Young:

    1. Carpenter had a better WHIP, ERA, and winning percentage than Lincecum.

    2. Carpenter was the better road pitcher.

    3. Carpenter was 8-1 with a 2.30 ERA in August through the end of the regular season while Lincecum was 4-4 with 2.78 ERA in that time.

    That said, I'm surprised no one appreciates the fact that the Cardinal pitchers split the vote and that's the reason why Lincecum won. 66% of the voters didn't think Lincecum should get the Cy Young. He couldn't even get a plurality.
    1. I said Carpenter pitched in the playoffs. Not well, but his team won enough to get there. The fact that Carpenter was on the better performing team doesn't mean he was the best pitcher.

    2. Lincecum allowed an OPS against in Aug-Sept of .554. Carpenter's was .585.

    3. Carpenter would have won if he topped 200 innings. It's that big a deal, even to me.

  5. #25
    its close. but i think they got the call right. here's why:

    lincecum: innings/225.1, ER/62, BB/68, SO/261

    carpenter: innings/192.2, ER/48, BB/38, SO/144

    so yes, ultimately it comes down to 2 things for me, innings, and strikeouts. first, and probably foremost, his innings aren't close, he didn't get nearly enough at his rate of excellence as tim lincecum did. if they pitched the same amount of innings and you extrapolate the resulting #'s, carpenter might have won it, except for those strikeouts. even with the extra 25 innings or so, maybe he walks 2 or 3 more guys, which is still a lot less than lincecum, and gives up say 4-5 runs, at most, which is still less than tim's 62. but at best, he adds maybe 15 strikeouts, which still puts him about 100 strikeouts less than tim.

    now, i get that carpenter is a little better at earned runs and walks, but its not by much. but lincecum is SO MUCH better at strikeouts that its not really even comparable, and i'm pretty sure thats why he won the cy young. i know that if i had a vote, that's why i'd have voted for the freak.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmcg86 View Post
    its close. but i think they got the call right. here's why:

    lincecum: innings/225.1, ER/62, BB/68, SO/261

    carpenter: innings/192.2, ER/48, BB/38, SO/144

    so yes, ultimately it comes down to 2 things for me, innings, and strikeouts. first, and probably foremost, his innings aren't close, he didn't get nearly enough at his rate of excellence as tim lincecum did. if they pitched the same amount of innings and you extrapolate the resulting #'s, carpenter might have won it, except for those strikeouts. even with the extra 25 innings or so, maybe he walks 2 or 3 more guys, which is still a lot less than lincecum, and gives up say 4-5 runs, at most, which is still less than tim's 62. but at best, he adds maybe 15 strikeouts, which still puts him about 100 strikeouts less than tim.

    now, i get that carpenter is a little better at earned runs and walks, but its not by much. but lincecum is SO MUCH better at strikeouts that its not really even comparable, and i'm pretty sure thats why he won the cy young. i know that if i had a vote, that's why i'd have voted for the freak.
    I agree on the innings part, obviously because you're saving your bullpen for other games when the pitching might not be as strong. As for K's though, meh, they look nice and fill up highlight reels but at the end of the day I don't give a damn how the pitcher gets the out, just do it.

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