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Thread: Quarterback Production Under Brian Schottenheimer

  1. #41
    [QUOTE=jetsfan1983;3413897]Hmm...

    I think that actually convinces me.

    The only thing that sucks about this though is that a new system sets Sanchez back. Without a doubt.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, but sometimes its worth taking a step back to eventually take 2 steps forward. You dont stick with something just because its easier to stand pat.

  2. #42
    Apparently there were not enough Schotty SUCKS threads last year, or the one before, so IMO there is no harm whatsoever in flooding any JETS board out there with anti Schitty Propaganda...
    JMHO

  3. #43
    And I cannot understand how anyone can honestly think that Sanchez will "lose another year" if they flush Schitty!
    It will be the BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO HIM!

    Kinda like when Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers were RELIEVED of teh Schitty.

    OH GODDDD! They just SUCK now that he's gone!!!

  4. #44
    I'm not a Shotty fan however the O we ran in 06 was terrific. We had an outright crappy team personal wise and our O carried us to the playoffs. It was creative and successful and we had a crappy OL and mediocre personal.

    The Dolphins lost the last 4 games that Pennington played in and he outright sucked in the playoffs last year under the great Miami scheme.

    Shotty has also had 3 QB's in 3 years including a QB competition in 4 consecutive off seasons which reduced the focus and work for the eventual starter going into each season.

    This year Leon Washington went down. Unlike most teams we no longer have a running back who we can run a screen to, who can take a swing pass from or a delay out of the backfield and do damage. We also traded Stuckey. Mediocre at best but a desciplined route runner out of the slot or the No. 2 WR position. We traded him for a boom or bust type of WR who doesn't run timeing patterns, lacks descipline, drops balls and is a physical beast.

    When Tom Brady drops back to pass he has a slot reciever who is wide open where he can dump the ball off to him on almost ever play. He also has Kevin Faulk coming out of the backfield in passing situations. The guy is open catches everything and creates a safe check down.

    The Jets have 1 WR who can actual run a pass pattern. We don't have a running back who can catch and run with the ball and we don't have a slot reciever who can make quick cuts and get open and catch the ball putting the QB in position to get first downs on 3 step drops.

    I have no issue unloading Shotty. That's far from our biggest problem on O.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 12-22-2009 at 06:28 AM.

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=FSUJetfan;3413889]Brian Schottenheimer's area of expertise was supposed to be the quaterback position. He played quarteback in college and entered the league as a quarterback coach. In Brian Schottenheimer's fourth season as the Jets Offensive Coordinator lets take a look back at the Quarterback production in his system, and then quarterback production by the same player in another system..

    [B]2006 Chad Pennington [/B]

    17 TDS 16 INTS 82.6 Rating

    *7th most Interception in the NFL


    [B]2007 Chad Pennington [/B]

    10 TDS 9 INTS 86.1 Rating

    Kellen Clemens

    5 TDS 10 INTS 60.9 Rating

    * Combined for 2nd most INTS in the NFL


    [B]2008 Brett Favre[/B]

    22 TDS 22 INTS 80.1 Rating

    * Most INTS in the NFL


    [B]2009 Mark Sanchez [/B]

    12 TDS 20 INTS 62.3 Rating

    *2nd most INTS in the NFL


    This is what the same quartebacks were able to accomplish in another system with comparable Wide Receivers.

    [B]2008 Chad Pennington under Dan Henning's offensive [/B]

    19 TDs 7 INTs 97.4 Rating

    * 2nd Highest Rating in the NFL


    [B]2009 Brett Favre under Brad Childress Offense[/B]

    27 TDS 7 INTS 104.1 Rating

    * 2nd Highest Rating in the NFL


    I have no faith in Brian Schottenheimer and blame him for the offensive woes and Mark Sanchez' lack of development. The New York Jet's need a new offensive coordinator if they want to win anything.[/QUOTE]

    Trust me some of us have been pointing this out for a long time now (not to mention Brees & Rivers production under Schotty). The blind Scotty supporters will continue to tell you it's all the players fault and that the coach isn't on the field to make plays. What most fail to realize is he is the one designing all of the failed plays.....

  6. #46
    [QUOTE=hatnlvr;3414993]Trust me some of us have been pointing this out for a long time now (not to mention Brees & Rivers production under Schotty). The blind Scotty supporters will continue to tell you it's all the players fault and that the coach isn't on the field to make plays. What most fail to realize is he is the one designing all of the failed plays.....[/QUOTE]

    Based on personal, which Jet running back right now can you run a screen pass with or throw into the flat? Which option in the passing game can you check down to?

  7. #47
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3414995]Based on personal, which Jet running back right now can you run a screen pass with or throw into the flat? Which option in the passing game can you check down to?[/QUOTE]

    You know better to ask questions like this. You're looking for substance where substance is completely unnecessary. Schitty sux!!!111111

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3414992]I'm not a Shotty fan however the O we ran in 06 was terrific. We had an outright crappy team personal wise and our O carried us to the playoffs. It was creative and successful and we had a crappy OL and mediocre personal.

    The Dolphins lost the last 4 games that Pennington played in and he outright sucked in the playoffs last year under the great Miami scheme.

    Shotty has also had 3 QB's in 3 years including a QB competition in 4 consecutive off seasons which reduced the focus and work for the eventual starter going into each season.

    This year Leon Washington went down. Unlike most teams we no longer have a running back who we can run a screen to, who can take a swing pass from or a delay out of the backfield and do damage. We also traded Stuckey. Mediocre at best but a desciplined route runner out of the slot or the No. 2 WR position. We traded him for a boom or bust type of WR who doesn't run timeing patterns, lacks descipline, drops balls and is a physical beast.

    When Tom Brady drops back to pass he has a slot reciever who is wide open where he can dump the ball off to him on almost ever play. He also has Kevin Faulk coming out of the backfield in passing situations. The guy is open catches everything and creates a safe check down.

    The Jets have 1 WR who can actual run a pass pattern. We don't have a running back who can catch and run with the ball and we don't have a slot reciever who can make quick cuts and get open and catch the ball putting the QB in position to get first downs on 3 step drops.

    I have no issue unloading Shotty. That's far from our biggest problem on O.[/QUOTE]

    good counter argument..that being said said wouldnt mind a new o.c. though

  9. #49
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3414995]Based on personal, which Jet running back right now can you run a screen pass with or throw into the flat? Which option in the passing game can you check down to?[/QUOTE]

    where is the te? why not throw him some screen passes? get him in open space instead of continuing throwing him in routes that cross the other 2 receivers??..

  10. #50
    [QUOTE=ryan10;3415040]where is the te? why not throw him some screen passes? get him in open space instead of continuing throwing him in routes that cross the other 2 receivers??..[/QUOTE]

    +1
    Not to mention Favre didn't have any problems throws check downs to both Thomas Jones and Keller.

  11. #51
    [QUOTE=ryan10;3415040]where is the te? why not throw him some screen passes? get him in open space instead of continuing throwing him in routes that cross the other 2 receivers??..[/QUOTE]

    You want TE screens against a stacked box. Keller is having enough trouble getting off the LOS as it is.

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3415698]You want TE screens against a stacked box. Keller is having enough trouble getting off the LOS as it is.[/QUOTE]

    Do you think no one else watches games and is just going to take your word?

    When has he had any trouble getting off the line? He's actually great with the ball in his hands, as is Cotch. I'd argue that Smith is the best runner on our team with the ball in his hands, but he doesn't shine because he doesn't have the crazy speed that Leon has...so where are these three players and why are they not given opportunities to shine?

    It falls on Schotty. He's gotta do a better job drawing up plays to get them the ball quickly and in space.

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=greenwichjetfan;3415827]Do you think no one else watches games and is just going to take your word?

    When has he had any trouble getting off the line? He's actually great with the ball in his hands, as is Cotch. I'd argue that Smith is the best runner on our team with the ball in his hands, but he doesn't shine because he doesn't have the crazy speed that Leon has...so where are these three players and why are they not given opportunities to shine?

    It falls on Schotty. He's gotta do a better job drawing up plays to get them the ball quickly and in space.[/QUOTE]

    I get it you take our best weapon off the field our best WR has a hamstring and clearly isn't moving well and you want Keller who showed last year that he could be taken out of the game and Edwards who waves at balls to shine.

    Get real the Jets O right now is three yards and a cloud of dust and a bomb to Edwards.

    Add in the fact that the HC has told the entire league what are game plan is and lets blame everything on Shotty.

    We have a rookie QB two running backs that can't catch the ball a No. 1 WR who has missed games with a Hammy and Braylon Edwards who was essentially thrown out of Cleveland. Keller has potential but he clearly has demonstrated that he can't get out into space on any kind of regular basis.

    I have no problem dumping shotty but bringing in a new WR and getting rid of a guy who had chemistry with our QB and ran safe routes along with the injury to Loen were both devestating to Sanchez's development this year.

    I have no issue going back to the Paul Hackett O that most of the guys on the board are screaming for. Lets get a TE who can seal the edge and we're all set.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 12-22-2009 at 03:41 PM.

  14. #54
    That Paul Hackett O everyone is dying for will be b*tched out within 2 years once Sanchez is a full fledged NFL QB...if he's a full fledged NFL QB.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=SenorGato;3415871]That Paul Hackett O everyone is dying for will be b*tched out within 2 years once Sanchez is a full fledged NFL QB...if he's a full fledged NFL QB.[/QUOTE]

    Who is asking for a Paul Hackett offense? Where are you getting this theory that if we fire Schottenheimer 1) Sanchez will be ruined and 2) we'll have a run-run-run-punt offense?

    Callahan threw the ball all over the place in Oakland - and that was with a journeyman QB and two slow 40 year old WR's.

  16. #56
    Oh dear lord I am not at [U]ALL[/U] hoping for a Hackett type of offense. I know this is pretty unrealistic because they are great at what they do, but Brees and Peyton have a great offensive scheme. Of course, they run it to perfection, but it's great because it incorporates a little of Martz, a little of Hackett, and a little of Reid. They have leveled plays which they interchange with great velocity.

    Hackett would be good, but his problem was that if he found something that worked once, he'd stick to it...such as the short stuff. Martz was too crazy...he was the definition of a great offensive mind, but for his offense to work, you need 5 grade A O-linemen. No team has that.

    IMO, Schotty is not a bad OC. He does a good job of changing things up in terms of the levels of plays. However, he has terrible tendencies and he tends to outthink himself wayyy too much. As I've stated, if he just would learn how to use his players the right way instead of trying to force things on them, he'd be great. For example:

    [B]Mark[/B]: still young, needs to try to save him from himself by user friendly progressions. One look, second look, and then check down...3 step drops with the ball coming out...no more sending everyone deep.
    [B]Keller[/B]: Have him motion to a receiver position, get a LB on him, and make him the primary instead of the third option.
    [B]Cotch[/B]: Excellent with the ball in his hands, get him more wr screens. The two this weekend worked to perfection.
    [B]Bray[/B]: Is being used correctly to go deep, but he needs to set up dbs more. Give him more short routes, more cuts, more hooks. That'll make the deep ball even more effective.
    [B]TJ/Shonn[/B]: Clearly not much to complain about here, except that Schotty runs one of these two on seemingly EVERY first down. Gotta stop with the first down runs so often.
    [B]Brad[/B]: Great with the ball in his hands. Line him up in the back field, and get him some swings. Let him work the seam. Have him under center and maybe actually let him throw the ball!?!?

    Just a couple of suggestions. Again, I'm not firing schotty because I think he's good. He just needs to adapt to his players more.
    Last edited by greenwichjetfan; 12-22-2009 at 04:06 PM.

  17. #57
    [QUOTE=greenwichjetfan;3415900]Oh dear lord I am not at [U]ALL[/U] hoping for a Hackett type of offense. I know this is pretty unrealistic because they are great at what they do, but Brees and Peyton have a great offensive scheme. Of course, they run it to perfection, but it's great because it incorporates a little of Martz, a little of Hackett, and a little of Reid. They have leveled plays which they interchange with great velocity.

    Hackett would be good, but his problem was that if he found something that worked once, he'd stick to it...such as the short stuff. Martz was too crazy...he was the definition of a great offensive mind, but for his offense to work, you need 5 grade A O-linemen. No team has that.

    IMO, Schotty is not a bad OC. He does a good job of changing things up in terms of the levels of plays. However, he has terrible tendencies and he tends to outthink himself wayyy too much. As I've stated, if he just would learn how to use his players the right way instead of trying to force things on them, he'd be great. For example:

    [B]Mark[/B]: still young, needs to try to save him from himself by user friendly progressions. One look, second look, and then check down...3 step drops with the ball coming out...no more sending everyone deep.
    [B]Keller[/B]: Have him motion to a receiver position, get a LB on him, and make him the primary instead of the third option.
    [B]Cotch[/B]: Excellent with the ball in his hands, get him more wr screens. The two this weekend worked to perfection.
    [B]Bray[/B]: Is being used correctly to go deep, but he needs to set up dbs more. Give him more short routes, more cuts, more hooks. That'll make the deep ball even more effective.
    [B]TJ/Shonn[/B]: Clearly not much to complain about here, except that Schotty runs one of these two on seemingly EVERY first down. Gotta stop with the first down runs so often.
    [B]Brad[/B]: Great with the ball in his hands. Line him up in the back field, and get him some swings. Let him work the seam. Have him under center and maybe actually let him throw the ball!?!?

    Just a couple of suggestions. Again, I'm not firing schotty because I think he's good. He just needs to adapt to his players more.[/QUOTE]

    Why would a team put a LB on Keller other than to jam him?

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3414992]I'm not a Shotty fan however the O we ran in 06 was terrific. We had an outright crappy team personal wise and our O carried us to the playoffs. It was creative and successful and we had a crappy OL and mediocre personal.

    The Dolphins lost the last 4 games that Pennington played in and he outright sucked in the playoffs last year under the great Miami scheme.

    Shotty has also had 3 QB's in 3 years including a QB competition in 4 consecutive off seasons which reduced the focus and work for the eventual starter going into each season.

    This year Leon Washington went down. Unlike most teams we no longer have a running back who we can run a screen to, who can take a swing pass from or a delay out of the backfield and do damage. We also traded Stuckey. Mediocre at best but a desciplined route runner out of the slot or the No. 2 WR position. We traded him for a boom or bust type of WR who doesn't run timeing patterns, lacks descipline, drops balls and is a physical beast.

    When Tom Brady drops back to pass he has a slot reciever who is wide open where he can dump the ball off to him on almost ever play. He also has Kevin Faulk coming out of the backfield in passing situations. The guy is open catches everything and creates a safe check down.

    The Jets have 1 WR who can actual run a pass pattern. We don't have a running back who can catch and run with the ball and we don't have a slot reciever who can make quick cuts and get open and catch the ball putting the QB in position to get first downs on 3 step drops.

    I have no issue unloading Shotty. That's far from our biggest problem on O.[/QUOTE]

    Excellent post. The 06 offense was very well run, especially considering the fact that the team's leading rusher had like 650 yards. I also wouldn't have a problem if we got a new OC, but I also, like you, realize that it's far from the biggest problem on O. My posts defending Schotty have never been aimed to convince people that he was an offensive genius, they were more intended to make people realize how shortsighted and incomplete their views were.

    It's fairly clear to any rational person that the major problem with this year's offense has been the play of a rookie QB, and it's also clear that most fans won't want to blame the QB who we hope will be the face of the franchise for the next 10 years. I also understand that most fans are bitter about the lack of offensive success and want to blame someone, so the OC is the easiest target. I just hope that next year, with a new OC or not, fans can finally start understanding the difference between play design and execution

  19. #59
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3415927]Why would a team put a LB on Keller other than to jam him?[/QUOTE]

    :confused:

    I don't get where you're going. Teams dont normally come out in nickel packages on first and second down. In man defenses, Dustin can dominate LBs.

    If you're referring to my initial post, it still doesn't make sense. Whether an LB is there to jam Keller or to reroute him is totally irrelevant because Keller gets off the line [U]great.[/U] Answer me this, how many times have you seen him rerouted?

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=njherdfan;3416077]Excellent post. The 06 offense was very well run, especially considering the fact that the team's leading rusher had like 650 yards. I also wouldn't have a problem if we got a new OC, but I also, like you, realize that it's far from the biggest problem on O. My posts defending Schotty have never been aimed to convince people that he was an offensive genius, they were more intended to make people realize how shortsighted and incomplete their views were.

    [B]It's fairly clear to any rational person that the major problem with this year's offense has been the play of a rookie QB, and it's also clear that most fans won't want to blame the QB who we hope will be the face of the franchise for the next 10 years. I also understand that most fans are bitter about the lack of offensive success and want to blame someone, so the OC is the easiest target. I just hope that next year, with a new OC or not, fans can finally start understanding the difference between play design and execution[/B][/QUOTE]


    Schotty's playcalling is fine for a wily old vet...but Sanchez is still a kid. He has to understand that Sanchez can't do everything Schotty wants from him. He has to tailor it down to easy reads and quick releases...especially when he's got underutilized playmakers like smith, cotch, keller.

    You're right that there's a difference between play design and execution, but they go hand in hand. If you're not designing plays for success, the execution won't follow.

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