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Thread: Civil Union vs. Gay Marriage

  1. #1

    Civil Union vs. Gay Marriage

    I'm curious.

    Obviously I am a bit of a current affairs/politics junky, and enjoy the varioues debates. But one issue hs me a bit confused, so I figured I'd ask here for viewpoints.

    I hear often from the Gay Marriage Advocates that Civil Unions are not "enough" and that they are not "equal" to Marriage.

    My question is.....why? What part of the two are not equal? Do they have to be called the same thign to be equal, even if all other aspects (legally) are equal under the Law?

    I happen to support Civil Unions, in the interest of full disclosure.

  2. #2
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    Im OK with Civil Unions, no gay marriage. Sure the only difference is a term. I myself dont want gay and marriage in the same term. Equallity and priveleges, Im all for, please just dont call it marriage.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE]The most significant difference between marriage and civil unions (or domestic partnerships) is that only marriage offers federal benefits and protections.

    Number of Legal Benefits:
    Marriage: Over 1,049 federal and state level benefits
    Civil Unions: Over 300 state level benefits. *No federal protection

    Tax Relief:
    Marriage: Couples can file both federal and state tax returns jointly.
    Civil Unions: Couples can only file jointly in the state of civil registration.

    Medical Decisions:
    Marriage: Partners can make emergency medical decisions.
    Civil Unions: Partners can only make medical decisions in the registered state. Partners may not be able to make decisions out of state.

    Gifts:
    Marriage: Partners can transfer gifts to each other without tax penalty.
    Civil Unions: Partners do not pay state taxes, but are required to report federal taxes.

    Death Benefits:
    Marriage: In the case of a partner's death, the spouse receives any earned Social Security or veteran benefits.
    Civil Unions: Partners do not receive Social Security or any other government benefits in case of death.

    Child/Spousal Support:
    Marriage: In case of divorce, individuals may have a legally-binding financial obligation to spouses and children.
    Civil Unions: In the case of dissolution , no such spousal or child benefits are guaranteed or required out of state.

    Immigration Rights:
    Marriage: U.S. citizens and legal residents can sponsor their spouses and family members for immigration.
    Civil Unions: U.S. citizens and legal residents cannot sponsor non-legal spouses or family members. [/QUOTE]

    Weird. Differences seem relatively small. Just give them all the same federal benefits and call them two different things and I'm sure both sides could be cool with that.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=Warfish;3441284]I'm curious.

    Obviously I am a bit of a current affairs/politics junky, and enjoy the varioues debates. But one issue hs me a bit confused, so I figured I'd ask here for viewpoints.

    I hear often from the Gay Marriage Advocates that Civil Unions are not "enough" and that they are not "equal" to Marriage.

    My question is.....why? What part of the two are not equal? Do they have to be called the same thign to be equal, even if all other aspects (legally) are equal under the Law?

    I happen to support Civil Unions, in the interest of full disclosure.[/QUOTE]

    Words are important. The minute you call something by a different name you are indicating that it is not equal.

    From the gay perspective, calling it a "civil union" indicates there is not the level of love that you find in a marriage. Many gays believes their relationships have just as much love and commitment as a hetero marriage.

    I am fascinated with words. Opponents say what's the big deal if its called a civil union. Proponents say what's the big deal if its called a marriage.

    Language changes over time but slowly.

    As a heterosexual married man but not particularly religious, I don't have a problem calling it a marriage.

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3441302]Weird. Differences seem relatively small. Just give them all the same federal benefits and call them two different things and I'm sure both sides could be cool with that.[/QUOTE]

    No they won't, gays want the term marriage.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3441302]Weird. Differences seem relatively small. Just give them all the same federal benefits and call them two different things.....[/QUOTE]

    I agree.

    But I happen to think that all Civil-Related Benefits should be definied (under teh State) as a "Civil Union". As with all things State/Legal, the State should be geneder-blind in it's application of Law. The genders of teh two partners should not be relevant to the State, only the conditions/rights/responsabillities of the Civil Union Contract.

    However, I do see the other side. History has value as well, and a few thousand years of human history (and biology) clearly shows that a Union of Man and Women is normal, biolgicly and socially, and that the Human Species defines this as Marriage. The religious aspects (which cannot be simply ignored) must also be taken into consideration as well. So I can see their point, that many do not want to see what they (and thousands of years of human culture) view as perversion described int he same term as their own relationship.

    But in the end, my answer is simple:

    A. Under the State, it's All Civil Unions. The joining is a Legal Contract (under the State), nothing more, nothing less.

    B. Whatever Church Performs the Ceremony has the right to call it whatever they like, whatever makes them happy. But that terminology has no bearing on anything legally. If the State (rather than a Church) Performs it, it must be called Civil Union only.

  7. #7
    How a man could want another mans mud on their helmet will always baffle me.

  8. #8
    [IMG]http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~walters/web%20104/30s%20parks%20segregation.jpg[/IMG]

    Separate but equal.

    It's like we've learned nothing from our own history.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3441343] History has value as well, and a few thousand years of human history (and biology) clearly shows that a Union of Man and Women is normal, biolgicly and socially, and that the Human Species defines this as Marriage.[/QUOTE]

    [I]Actually[/I], polygamy is closer to the historical norm than monogamy (or what we have in the US with our divorce rate..."serial monogamy"). And, anthropologically speaking, strict monogamy will ultimately lead to the demise of the human species as that form of sexual relationship allows males with less desirable genes to mate a procreate as freely as males with more highly prized genetics. But that's for another thread :D

    [QUOTE]But in the end, my answer is simple:

    A. Under the State, it's All Civil Unions. The joining is a Legal Contract (under the State), nothing more, nothing less.

    B. Whatever Church Performs the Ceremony has the right to call it whatever they like, whatever makes them happy. But that terminology has no bearing on anything legally. If the State (rather than a Church) Performs it, it must be called Civil Union only.
    [/QUOTE]

    That is a simple answer...and underlines the insanity of why one of our dear congressman or political activists hasn't brought up your solutions before. I personally believe that the whole gay marriage thing will never be properly addressed because it's continuing to be a wedge issue is very lucrative to people running for office who wish to motivate a particular voter block. :eek:

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=LIDeadHead;3441365]How a man could want another mans mud on their helmet will always baffle me.[/QUOTE]

    LMFAO!!

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    [QUOTE=Tyler Durden;3441367][IMG]http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~walters/web%20104/30s%20parks%20segregation.jpg[/IMG]

    Separate but equal.

    It's like we've learned nothing from our own history.[/QUOTE]

    Ridiculous.

    We're saying same rights, different name. What if blacks demanded to be called whites to prove full equality.

    There is a difference between a gay marriage and a non-gay marriage. One has mixed genders and the other doesn't. Hence a different name.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Timmy®;3441391]Ridiculous.

    We're saying same rights, different name. What if blacks demanded to be called whites to prove full equality.

    There is a difference between a gay marriage and a non-gay marriage. One has mixed genders and the other doesn't. Hence a different name.[/QUOTE]

    Those two water fountains produce the same water to drink. Same water, different fountain. Separate but equal.

    Civil unions and marriage have all the same rights, correct? but with a different name. Same relationship, different name.

    Gay people are so awful you don't want them calling their relationship a marriage, but to be nice we'll let you call it a civil union with the same rights. That's also separate but equal.
    Last edited by Tyler Durden; 01-08-2010 at 12:41 PM.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Timmy®;3441391]There is a difference between a gay marriage and a non-gay marriage. One has mixed genders and the other doesn't. Hence a different name.[/QUOTE]

    I think that's the crux here...there ARE differences besides the name. For example, if a gay couple go on vacation to a state that does not recognize civil unions, the gay spouse would have no right to make any medical decisions for the other spouse should something happen.

    Stuff like that should be addressed.

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    [QUOTE=Tyler Durden;3441406]Those two water fountains produce the same water to drink, same water, different fountain. Separate but equal.

    Gay people are so awful you don't want them calling their relationship a marriage, but to be nice we'll let you call it a civil union with the same rights. That's also separate but equal.[/QUOTE]

    so let's stop using the terms man and woman....blacks and whites.....asians, americans, europeans.....let's just all be people...it's the only fair way

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    [QUOTE=Tyler Durden;3441367][IMG]http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~walters/web%20104/30s%20parks%20segregation.jpg[/IMG]

    Separate but equal.

    It's like we've learned nothing from our own history.[/QUOTE]

    We are talking about the United States not Ireland.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Timmy®;3441415]so let's stop using the terms man and woman....blacks and whites.....asians, americans, europeans.....let's just all be people...it's the only fair way[/QUOTE]

    When it comes to rights... that's exactly how it should go

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;3441418]We are talking about the United States not Ireland.[/QUOTE]

    You're hilarious... laugh riot

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    [QUOTE=Tyler Durden;3441421]When it comes to rights... that's exactly how it should go[/QUOTE]

    Noble...but you are getting off the point.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Timmy®;3441426]Noble...but you are getting off the point.[/QUOTE]

    Then I guess you don't see marriage as a right. I do.

    You have the right to marry the person you love. You have the right to get married 100 times over. You have the right to marry a 95 year old for his money. You have the right to get married in Vegas by Elvis. You have the right to get married on a reality TV show. You have the right to get married on Jerry Springer.
    Last edited by Tyler Durden; 01-08-2010 at 12:39 PM.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Timmy®;3441415]so let's stop using the terms man and woman....blacks and whites.....asians, americans, europeans.....[B]let's just all be people[/B]...it's the only fair way[/QUOTE]

    So now gay aliens can't get married? Racist.

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