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Thread: Moving Up?

  1. #1
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    Moving Up?

    Watching Tanny the last few years tells me we don't stay at 29.
    For fun, lets say we plug Gholston in to B.Thomas's spot. I happen to think we get the same production, but would rather not debate that here.
    I think we go DE
    What would it take for Tanny to package B. Thomas to move up and get an elete DE? How far would we have to move up? What pics would we have to throw in?
    I dont follow collage football,other than my Hawkeye's, enough to know who that pick should be.
    Experts,please help me. HAVE FUN

  2. #2
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    A few problems for the Jets in moving up this year.

    - They are drafting much lower than in the past thus to move up and get a top tier talent we will have to pay more.

    - We do not have a bag full of picks or extra picks in any round to use as ammo.

    - Including players in these deals is the exception to the rule. We were VERY fortunate last year that we found a patsy in Mangini to make a trade with. Our 2nd trade up scenario with St. Louis last yer would have cost us David Harris.

    - Teams will be more hesitant to trade down with the Jets for value simply because the Jets have been so successful at it. Teams don't like to look bad trading down instead of taking the Revis's, Harris's and Sanchez's of this world.

    - More competition for trade ups. This goes in hand with the point above. Teams that have been shy about trade ups and giving up picks in the past have seen what it has meant to the Jets and will follow suit. (I think the Pats are going to trade up this year with the volume of picks they have.)

    To me this might be the ideal year to buck the trend and trade down.

  3. #3
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    This is from PFT, the National Enquirer of the NFL. The idea though is interesting and could be a way for the Jets to move up cheaply. Seahawks already have the 6th pick. They may want to save some money drafting 6th, signing Marshall and picking up another 1st rounder towards the end of the draft around the Jets spot.

    6. Seahawks should pull an end run around the Broncos
    With the Seattle Seahawks flirting with Brandon Marshall, the Broncos are getting the word out, loud and clear: If the Seahawks want Marshall, they need to sign him to an offer sheet and be prepared to give up the sixth overall pick in the draft.
    The position is more than a little donkey-headed, given that the Seahawks also hold the 14th overall pick in the draft, which Denver sent to them in 2008 for a second-round pick. With the Broncos essentially begging someone to sign Marshall to an offer sheet by tendering the restricted free agent at the first-round level only, the Broncos should be happy with any first-round pick they can get.
    So here's what the Seahawks should do. They should communicate to a team like the Saints or the Colts or anyone who picks below No. 14 the terms they'd be comfortable paying to Marshall, and the Seahawks should offer to those teams the 14th overall pick for Marshall's contract. Then, one of the teams picking below No. 14 should sign Marshall to an offer sheet.
    It would be a lot easier for the Broncos just to take the 14th overall pick and send Marshall to Seattle. But if they refuse to relent, then the Seahawks should give some other team an easy chance to upgrade to No. 14 — and to stick the Broncos with a pick a lot lower than No. 6.
    Last edited by TokyoJetsFan; 03-08-2010 at 12:23 PM.

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    Suh and McCoy are the two best guys slotted as potential 3-4 DEs. They are both gone by four, maybe by two. It would take a 1, 2, 4 and a starter (Harris) to move to #1-2.
    That leaves Odrick and Houston. Odrick might slip, Houston will probably be there at 29.
    For everyone who wants a Dunlap or Graham, they are a little undersized for a 3-4.
    Bottom line: no need to trade up for a high quality DE.
    This is the number 1 position OF NEED for present and longer term.
    WR - 2
    S - 4
    OLB - 5
    CB - 6
    RB/FB? - 7

  5. #5
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    I mentioned this in another thread ...

    If there is a player that Tanny is high on, he will always--and I mean [I]always[/I]--try to move up.

    Tanny's been in 4 drafts and he's tried it in each one:

    2006--Tries to trade up from 29 to draft Leinhart after taking D'Brick (thank God that didn't happen)

    2007--Trades up for Revis & Harris

    2008--Trades up for Keller

    2009--Trades up for Sanchez & Greene. Tries to trade up for Harvin.

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    [QUOTE=SMC;3518731]I mentioned this in another thread ...

    If there is a player that Tanny is high on, he will always--and I mean [I]always[/I]--try to move up.

    Tanny's been in 4 drafts and he's tried it in each one:

    2006--Tries to trade up from 29 to draft Leinhart after taking D'Brick (thank God that didn't happen)

    2007--Trades up for Revis & Harris

    2008--Trades up for Keller

    2009--Trades up for Sanchez & Greene. Tries to trade up for Harvin.[/QUOTE]

    Good post and observation.

    Makes me wonder if dealing Rhodes for a 4th was part of a broader plan to get up from 29 to get a pass rusher, b/c that's the only position i could see them trading up for.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=SMC;3518731]I mentioned this in another thread ...

    If there is a player that Tanny is high on, he will always--and I mean [I]always[/I]--try to move up.

    Tanny's been in 4 drafts and he's tried it in each one:

    2006--Tries to trade up from 29 to draft Leinhart after taking D'Brick (thank God that didn't happen)

    2007--Trades up for Revis & Harris

    2008--Trades up for Keller

    2009--Trades up for Sanchez & Greene. Tries to trade up for Harvin.[/QUOTE]

    Notice the one where he failed? Drafting 29th. He may try to trade up but this year is much tougher then in previous years as outlined in my post above. He'll certainly do his due diligence and make the effort but it isn't going to be easy from our draft spot and with the resources we have.

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    [QUOTE=Beerfish;3518758]Notice the one where he failed? Drafting 29th. He may try to trade up but this year is much tougher then in previous years as outlined in my post above. He'll certainly do his due diligence and make the effort but it isn't going to be easy from our draft spot and with the resources we have.[/QUOTE]

    Yep, I agree that that it will be tough.

    That's why I think the trade up will only happen for about 5 or so spots. That's the scenario where the Jets are pretty set at 29, but then they see a higher ranked player fall into striking distance in the early-mid 20s, and then Tanny would pounce.

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    [QUOTE=Beerfish;3518703]A few problems for the Jets in moving up this year.

    - They are drafting much lower than in the past thus to move up and get a top tier talent we will have to pay more.

    - We do not have a bag full of picks or extra picks in any round to use as ammo.

    - Including players in these deals is the exception to the rule. We were VERY fortunate last year that we found a patsy in Mangini to make a trade with. Our 2nd trade up scenario with St. Louis last yer would have cost us David Harris.

    - Teams will be more hesitant to trade down with the Jets for value simply because the Jets have been so successful at it. Teams don't like to look bad trading down instead of taking the Revis's, Harris's and Sanchez's of this world.

    - More competition for trade ups. This goes in hand with the point above. Teams that have been shy about trade ups and giving up picks in the past have seen what it has meant to the Jets and will follow suit. (I think the Pats are going to trade up this year with the volume of picks they have.)

    To me this might be the ideal year to buck the trend and trade down.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with every point you make exept 1. Beli is so arogent he thinks anyone he drafts will come in and be productive. So I don't think they move up.
    Since this thread is just for fun, I'll change it a little. Instead of elete DE, how about an instint upgrade over Douglass. You know the guy you want will be gone between 18 and 23, what will it take to get there with adding B. Thomas as bait?

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    [QUOTE=SMC;3518768]Yep, I agree that that it will be tough.

    That's why I think the trade up will only happen for about 5 or so spots. That's the scenario where the Jets are pretty set at 29, but then they see a higher ranked player fall into striking distance in the early-mid 20s, and then Tanny would pounce.[/QUOTE]

    let's say a coveted guy, say graham or odrick, is there at 25 or so. would the 4th rounder be sufficient to move up? it's not like tanny has a lot to work with here.

  11. #11
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    graham will be long gone. Odrick is meh. Who are they moving up for?

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3518834]graham will be long gone. Odrick is meh. Who are they moving up for?[/QUOTE]

    well, that's a good question. the only position i see them moving up for, at least in round 1, is a pass rusher they really like. if not, i can see them taking a cb at 29, which still fills a major need.

    but, b/c of tanny's short history of trying to move up, i'm playing the 'what if' game of wondering which pass rushers the jets would consider moving up for if they fell into the mid 20s. Dunlap? Griffin? Odrick?

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    [QUOTE=augustiniak;3518806]let's say a coveted guy, say graham or odrick, is there at 25 or so. would the 4th rounder be sufficient to move up? it's not like tanny has a lot to work with here.[/QUOTE]

    Unless a team really really wants to get out of a spot if I was a gm I'd never move down in the 1st round unless the other team paid a really good price. Just looking at the draft value chart (even though it is much maligned there is a case of it being close to a number of trades in the last few years.)

    To move up from 29 to 25 would be about 100 points. That would have to be late 3rd rounder at the very least.

    If we are to trade up this year I think we are going to be trading picks from next year.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=Beerfish;3518863]Unless a team really really wants to get out of a spot if I was a gm I'd never move down in the 1st round unless the other team paid a really good price. Just looking at the draft value chart (even though it is much maligned there is a case of it being close to a number of trades in the last few years.)

    To move up from 29 to 25 would be about 100 points. That would have to be late 3rd rounder at the very least.

    If we are to trade up this year I think we are going to be trading picks from next year.[/QUOTE]

    which is why i think tanny stays at 29 and takes a cb, and in round 2 takes a DE or OLB hybrid, b/c i think lots of these guys like kindle aren't much better than hybrid guys who are less hyped and can be had in the 2nd round. there's enough depth in this draft to get quality players here.

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    [QUOTE=SMC;3518731]I mentioned this in another thread ...

    If there is a player that Tanny is high on, he will always--and I mean [I]always[/I]--try to move up.

    Tanny's been in 4 drafts and he's tried it in each one:

    2006--Tries to trade up from 29 to draft Leinhart after taking D'Brick (thank God that didn't happen)

    2007--Trades up for Revis & Harris

    2008--Trades up for Keller

    2009--Trades up for Sanchez & Greene. Tries to trade up for Harvin.[/QUOTE]

    Good stuff, forgot about the Percy/Leinart failed tradeups and I always seem to forget Keller was a tradeup too.

    I'm sure we'll make a move somewhere in this draft, that's just Tannenbaum's nature, but I don't think it'll be in the first or second.

    We've got too many needs and with the free agency limitations, it's even harder to reload for next year. Those first two picks could net us two future starters and provide depth in the short term.

    I'd love to trade up for Earl Thomas but the more I think about it, it's going to probably cost us that 2nd rounder, which is really steep for us this year. We wouldn't pick again till the fourth and we'd have only got a safety.

    Giving up several players for a quarterback is one thing, but giving up two potential starters (rounds 1 and 2) for one safety just isn't good football business sense.

    I think if we trade up, it'll be packaging that fourth we just got with maybe the 5th or 6th to move up and pickup a player that drops into the third round, something like the Shonn Greene trade last year.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3518834]graham will be long gone. Odrick is meh. Who are they moving up for?[/QUOTE]

    Which of these players are for sure not going top 22?

    Haden - CB
    Morgan - DE
    Pierre-Paul - DE
    Suh - DT
    McCoy - DT
    D. Williams - DT
    McLaine - ILB
    Iupati - OG
    Weatherspoon - OLB
    Bryant - WR
    Gresham - TE
    Okung - OT
    Bulaga - OT
    Davis - OT
    Campbell - OT
    T. Williams - OT
    Brown - OT
    Bradford - QB
    Clausen - QB
    Spiller - RB
    Berry - S
    Mays - S

    That leaves a group of players like this:

    Graham
    Wilson
    Kindle
    Mathews
    Best
    E. Thomas
    G. Tate
    D. Thomas.

    Even if you remove a few players form the top list and add Graham you still have a good 20 players that by all rights should be gone (remember we do have Al Davis drafting here.)

    That will leave a decent group of players from a variety of positions from 20 to 30 or so. Very conceivable that the Jets could really have a liking to one of them.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Beerfish;3518896]Which of these players are for sure not going top 22?

    Haden - CB
    Morgan - DE
    Pierre-Paul - DE
    Suh - DT
    McCoy - DT
    D. Williams - DT
    McLaine - ILB
    Iupati - OG
    Weatherspoon - OLB
    Bryant - WR
    Gresham - TE
    Okung - OT
    Bulaga - OT
    Davis - OT
    Campbell - OT
    T. Williams - OT
    Brown - OT
    Bradford - QB
    Clausen - QB
    Spiller - RB
    Berry - S
    Mays - S

    That leaves a group of players like this:

    Graham
    Wilson
    Kindle
    Mathews
    Best
    E. Thomas
    G. Tate
    D. Thomas.

    Even if you remove a few players form the top list and add Graham you still have a good 20 players that by all rights should be gone (remember we do have Al Davis drafting here.)

    That will leave a decent group of players from a variety of positions from 20 to 30 or so. Very conceivable that the Jets could really have a liking to one of them.[/QUOTE]

    or, field offers to move back if a team picking early round 2 wants a guy like benn or tate, for example.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=augustiniak;3518852]well, that's a good question. the only position i see them moving up for, at least in round 1, is a pass rusher they really like. if not, i can see them taking a cb at 29, which still fills a major need.

    but, b/c of tanny's short history of trying to move up, i'm playing the 'what if' game of wondering which pass rushers the jets would consider moving up for if they fell into the mid 20s. Dunlap? Griffin? Odrick?[/QUOTE]




    Dunlap and Griffin are not 3-4 DEs. Too small. 3-4 OLBs? Why? The Jets have 5 OLBs.
    Don't like Odrick? He may be gone at 29 or not. Take Lamarr Houston. He's a 3-4 DE type.
    The Jets defense ranked 18 in sacks in the regular season. But is it the people or the scheme? Who is this hybrid pass rusher to replace? Pace? He had 8 sacks in 12 games. As previosly stated, the Jets pass defense could not be too shabby ranked number 1.
    And just for the record, when the Jets finally figured out what was going on, [B]they were number 1 in sacks in the post season[/B].

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;3518934]Dunlap and Griffin are not 3-4 DEs. Too small. 3-4 OLBs? Why? The Jets have 5 OLBs.
    Don't like Odrick? He may be gone at 29 or not. Take Lamarr Houston. He's a 3-4 DE type.
    The Jets defense ranked 18 in sacks in the regular season. But is it the people or the scheme? Who is this hybrid pass rusher to replace? Pace? He had 8 sacks in 12 games. As previosly stated, the Jets pass defense could not be too shabby ranked number 1.
    And just for the record, when the Jets finally figured out what was going on, [B]they were number 1 in sacks in the post season[/B].[/QUOTE]

    it's not just the number of sacks, but how many players the jets had to blitz to generate them. also, for every play the jets blitzed and did get a sack, there were plenty of other plays that did not result in a sack and left few defenders to play the pass. the fewer pass rushers needed to generate a pass rush, the better the odds that the pass will be incomplete or result in a turnover. i will say that pace certainly improves the pass rush, but ellis is on his last legs and they desperately need his successor. this draft, which is deep in DL talent, is a gift for the jets to find a quality DE in either round 1 or 2.

  20. #20
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    I can guarantee you that we would not have been able to blitz as much with out Revis Island.

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