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Thread: Official Stadium Opener/Sham Coin Toss thread (merged)

  1. #621
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    [QUOTE=2009fatman;3529093]Exactly, and the Jets will be the home team when we play the Giants in the 3rd pre-season game, where most of the starters play into the 3rd quarter.[/QUOTE]

    yes but we had to fight for the opening reg season game.

  2. #622
    [QUOTE=SMC;3528945]

    Woody has been an NFL owner for over 10 years now. In fact, he's been involved longer than the current members of the Tisch and Mara families (their fathers were involved when Woody bought the Jets). Woody has more seniority than other owners in the league. It's not like he's the new kid on the block.

    Your position is ridiculous. [/QUOTE]

    the Mara's NFL seniority clock reset to 0 when the old man kicked the bucket?

    What a charming idea. it's very "founding fathers". John Adams would be proud.

  3. #623
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    After all the negative press the NFL is getting off Woody Johnson's public comments, I'll bet that Goodell will attempt to screw us over by sending the most difficult opponent on the schedule for our home opener...12-4 Minnesota.

  4. #624
    Just think. We can revisit all this next year when the Jets get the first home game and it's wiped out by the lockout.

  5. #625
    Ok so one man's opinion and I think it is a quite plausable one is that Woody knew the result Friday night and tried to play with the facts and sway the issue with his knowingly false press statement Saturday night.

    Read below:
    [QUOTE]
    Friday – According to Woody’s statement he learned about the actual coin-toss result.
    Saturday – The Jets website subtly publishes a story about an upcoming coin-toss for the game and that fans might be invited to attend!! Goody!
    Sunday – The Giants don’t say anything about the matter, referring it to the league.
    Monday – Word leaks that the coin flip was done and that Woody is “outraged” at the matter. Woody late in the day releases a statement about transparency.

    So Woody, must have OK’ed the weekend story about the coin toss right? Yet he already knew the outcome of it, regardless of his acceptance of it’s validity. Then he forced a story about something that already happened, along with the potential for an event around it, and is chiding the league for their transparency issues? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

    I know this is meta, and might not be all that relevant, but for those who follow this closely, Woody has made the team reporter, Randy Lange (FULL DISCLOSURE who I respect beyond measure) look like a heel. If Randy Lange knew the real story, then he looks irresponsible for propagating a known falsehood, if he didn’t know the real story (which I imagine he didn’t) then he looks like nothing more than a mouthpiece. Ah … nothing quite like willfully throwing your employees under the bus to stroke the ego of a billionaire. What, that’s never happened to you? Oh.
    [/QUOTE]
    [URL="http://www.thejetsblog.com/2010/03/15/woody-messes-with-bull-gets-horns/"]http://www.thejetsblog.com/2010/03/15/woody-messes-with-bull-gets-horns/[/URL]

    If what Basset says it is true, and to me this is the most plausable scenario then Goodell has plenty of reason to be angry at Woody as Woody knowing lied (and used Lange in his lie) in his statement Saturday night.

    Standing up for the injustice to the Jets is perfectly reasable and I believe expected. To do it by lying just makes you look worse and negates whatever you want to accomplish. Woody blew it here.

  6. #626
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    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;3529502]
    If what Basset says it is true, and to me this is the most plausable scenario then Goodell has plenty of reason to be angry at Woody as Woody knowing lied (and used Lange in his lie) in his statement Saturday night.

    Standing up for the injustice to the Jets is perfectly reasable and I believe expected. To do it by lying just makes you look worse and negates whatever you want to accomplish. Woody blew it here.[/QUOTE]

    Wait a minute....

    The Jets Front Office lying? To people who support them and advance their agenda?

    You don't say? Unheard of, I tell ya. Unheard of!

    :rolleyes:

  7. #627
    [QUOTE=OrangeJet;3527257]I'm sure they could...but that doesn't answer the question [B][U]if they should[/U][/B].

    I can afford to have another car in the driveway better than some...should I have one parked in the driveway that I rarely drive because my son cries and begs for it?[/QUOTE]

    You should, if you (the prosceptive owner) feels it's good for business (customers) and for those who may one day partake of your business (future customers).

    In this case, the owner made his decision, and many of his customers do not support that decision. Expressing a belief that ongoing 2nd Tier Status was a poor choice is not "crying" nor "whining", it's expressing a viewpoint. Admittedly, one based primarily on implied perception, emotional attachments and personal idealism as opposed to pure cold bottom-line based logic.

    I think there is a large population of fans who would have preferred a 600 mil Stadium anywhere on Long Island over a shared 1.2 Billion Stadium in the heart of the Jersey Swamp, within which the Jets will be perceived by everyone outside the Tri-State area as tenants and 2nd class residents in someone elses home.

    As I said, a few color changing lights and neutral color seats may be enough to convince Jersey-based Jets fans (who undoubtedly have a location bias related to their own personal convenience), but it does little to convince the rest of the football watching world, nor many of the Jets New York based fanbase.

    Just my opinion, of course. :D

  8. #628
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    Woody =

    [IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8qEYM4p2Oy8/SIP8oyA29WI/AAAAAAAABaA/v7JyfFXoSN4/s400/hollywood%2Bhogan.jpg[/IMG]

  9. #629
    [QUOTE=Warfish;3529708]You should, if you (the prosceptive owner) feels it's good for business (customers) and for those who may one day partake of your business (future customers).

    In this case, the owner made his decision, and many of his customers do not support that decision. Expressing a belief that ongoing 2nd Tier Status was a poor choice is not "crying" nor "whining", it's expressing a viewpoint. Admittedly, one based primarily on implied perception, emotional attachments and personal idealism as opposed to pure cold bottom-line based logic.

    I think there is a large population of fans who would have preferred a 600 mil Stadium anywhere on Long Island over a shared 1.2 Billion Stadium in the heart of the Jersey Swamp, within which the Jets will be perceived by everyone outside the Tri-State area as tenants and 2nd class residents in someone elses home.

    As I said, a few color changing lights and neutral color seats may be enough to convince Jersey-based Jets fans (who undoubtedly have a location bias related to their own personal convenience), but it does little to convince the rest of the football watching world, nor many of the Jets New York based fanbase.

    Just my opinion, of course. :D[/QUOTE]
    Very eloquently stated Warfish. The only parts I would correct is that the NMS is $1.6 Bil and the perception that you talk about is not just from those outside the Tri-State area but from inside as well (with the probable exception of most NJites)

  10. #630
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    other than the fact that NO new stadium seating 70,000 plus could be built for 600K anywhere in the NY Metro area and certainly not anywhere on Long Island. The new Red Bulls stadium cost more than that and seats about 25K fans

    BTW, how are the Islanders coming along with getting a simple hockey arena built on Long Island since it is apparently the place to go for major sports teams seeking new stadiums and arenas?

    It's nice of you to feed QueensJetFan's fantastical pipe dream of a mythical stadium in Queens or Long Island approved by Cablevision, Sheldon Silver and all the rest of the crooked cabal in Albany



    but it is essentially as realistic as Alice in Wonderland
    Last edited by sg3; 03-17-2010 at 08:05 PM.

  11. #631
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    In no way would/should the jets ever build a stadium on L.I. I could see Queen, or somewhere else in NYC, but L.I.? Why because they had camp there? Where is the cry for the Giants to build in Albany?

    No one believes they should, of course other than those from L.I.

  12. #632
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;3530298]Woody was not lying, he simply DOES NOT recognize a [COLOR="Red"]"secret coin toss"[/COLOR] as [B][U]LEGITIMATE[/U][/B] (and neither do I), therefore he rejects the premise that a coin toss had even taken place

    I wholeheartedly support that position and completely reject that premise as well

    IMO (and Woody's) an illegitimate coin toss is no coin toss at all ... period

    If you're tossing a coin on something that pertains to me, and I don't see it, and in fact you don't even invite me to see it, so far as I'm concerned [B]IT DIDN'T HAPPEN[/B]

    If that makes you feel insulted, too friggin bad, you should have invited me then!

    I'M INSULTED TOO, so that makes two of us[/QUOTE]
    Ham everything you say about the coin toss being a sham is true, but that doesn't mean that Woody didn't lie. When you had Lange post the article on the Jet's website he knew the coin toss had already taken place and he lost. He lied and made up a story about another coin toss that was to take place.

    What was the point of that? Was just plain dumb! What he should have done was put out a press release then like what he did on Monday. Then he would have had more credibility.

    Now he has none and has lost the high ground in the argument with his blantant lie. The was to question someone's credibility is not to lie yourself.

  13. #633
    It's nice to finally have an owner with a pulse and a pair of balls. If this were the Hess/Gutman regime, we wouldn't hear a word.

    BTW, I still maintain, we got the better deal.

  14. #634
    [QUOTE=JetsFanatic;3530370]It's nice to finally have an owner with a pulse and a pair of balls. If this were the Hess/Gutman regime, we wouldn't hear a word.

    BTW, I still maintain, we got the better deal.[/QUOTE]

    In terms of national exposure, we definitely did.

    Being 21 and not married, night games are awesome for me. For the married fans with kids that they'd like to bring to games, this kind of sucks, depending on the kids age, so I feel for them.

    BTW, Sec229, Row 4? I'll be seeing you next year as I'm in 230 (obv), Row 2.

  15. #635
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    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;3530401]QJF, you clearly missed the whole point of my post, so let me try again ....

    You are assuming Woody accepts the premise that a coin toss had actually taken place, but since Woody wasn't there and wasn't even invited to be there to witness this mystery coin toss, [B]he rejects the very premise that a coin toss had taken place[/B], therefore he is under no obligation to mention a coin toss that [B]NEVER HAPPENED[/B] so far as he's concerned, because he has no [B]evidence[/B] that it did other than Roger Goodell's word, and obviously that wasn't good enough for Woody or we would not even be having this discussion

    So let me break it down for you ...

    If Goodell wants to suggest a coin toss had already taken place he can, there's nothing to stop him and he did, but Woody in essence is saying ....

    I SAW NO COIN TOSS

    WAS NOT EVEN INVITED TO WITNESS SAID COIN TOSS

    THEREFORE IN MY VIEW THERE WAS NO LEGITIMATE COIN TOSS IF THERE WAS ONE AT ALL

    AND AS SUCH I REJECT THE VERY PREMISE THAT A COIN TOSS HAS TAKEN PLACE

    Now if Goodell wants to say there was he can, but Woody is under no obligation to accept that premise on his website or even allude to it, because he [B]REJECTS THE PREMISE[/B] outright ... he didn't see it, wasn't even invited to see it, therefore so far as Woody is concerned [B]IT DIDN'T HAPPEN[/B]

    That's not lying, that's just offering his position on this so-called mystery coin toss, which is to reject it entirely, therefore he is under no obligation to aknowledge something that didn't happen from his perspective ... and that's all he has to go by is a perspective since GOODELL decided to do this in secret if he even did it at all

    Is that essentially calling Goodell a liar?

    YOU BETCHA, but why shouldn't you call a man a liar after he has the balls to tell you ... "OBTW, that dispute we were dealing with, I flipped a coin (unbeknownst to you) and you lost"

    If someone told me that, about an issue that pertained to me, a liar would be the nicest thing I called him

    As for why Woody would suggest a coin toss still has to take place, once again its because he rejects the premise that one had already taken place ... Just because Goodell says it did that doesn't mean that it did or that Woody has to accept that it did ... if Goodell wanted Woody to accept that it did, he should have invited him to ACTUALLY SEE IT

    This is not JMO BTW, read Woody's press release and he states very clearly "WE REJECT" this so-called mystery coin toss, or something to that effect ... his P.R. makes it very clear that he REJECTS the premise that a legitimate coin toss has already taken place, and that's why he still rejects the idea that a legitimate coin toss has taken place[/QUOTE]

    You don't have to accept the premise that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. But that doesn't stop it from being fact.

  16. #636
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;3530401]QJF, you clearly missed the whole point of my post, so let me try again ....

    You are assuming Woody accepts the premise that a coin toss had actually taken place, but since Woody wasn't there and wasn't even invited to be there to witness this mystery coin toss, [B]he rejects the very premise that a coin toss had taken place[/B], therefore he is under no obligation to mention a coin toss that [B]NEVER HAPPENED[/B] so far as he's concerned, because he has no [B]evidence[/B] that it did other than Roger Goodell's word, and obviously that wasn't good enough for Woody or we would not even be having this discussion

    So let me break it down for you ...

    If Goodell wants to suggest a coin toss had already taken place he can, there's nothing to stop him and he did, but Woody in essence is saying ....

    I SAW NO COIN TOSS

    WAS NOT EVEN INVITED TO WITNESS SAID COIN TOSS

    THEREFORE IN MY VIEW THERE WAS NO LEGITIMATE COIN TOSS IF THERE WAS ONE AT ALL

    AND AS SUCH I REJECT THE VERY PREMISE THAT A COIN TOSS HAS TAKEN PLACE

    Now if Goodell wants to say there was he can, but Woody is under no obligation to accept that premise on his website or even allude to it, because he [B]REJECTS THE PREMISE[/B] outright ... he didn't see it, wasn't even invited to see it, therefore so far as Woody is concerned [B]IT DIDN'T HAPPEN[/B]

    That's not lying, that's just offering his position on this so-called mystery coin toss, which is to reject it entirely, therefore he is under no obligation to aknowledge something that didn't happen from his perspective ... and that's all he has to go by is a perspective since GOODELL decided to do this in secret if he even did it at all

    Is that essentially calling Goodell a liar?

    YOU BETCHA, but why shouldn't you call a man a liar after he has the balls to tell you ... "OBTW, that dispute we were dealing with, I flipped a coin (unbeknownst to you) and you lost"

    If someone told me that, about an issue that pertained to me, a liar would be the nicest thing I called him

    As for why Woody would suggest a coin toss still has to take place, once again its because he rejects the premise that one had already taken place ... Just because Goodell says it did that doesn't mean that it did or that Woody has to accept that it did ... if Goodell wanted Woody to accept that it did, he should have invited him to ACTUALLY SEE IT

    This is not JMO BTW, read Woody's press release and he states very clearly "WE REJECT" this so-called mystery coin toss, or something to that effect ... his P.R. makes it very clear that he REJECTS the premise that a legitimate coin toss has already taken place, and that's why he still rejects the idea that a legitimate coin toss has taken place[/QUOTE]
    Ham you are not making sense. He didn't say the "we reject" Saturday night, he said that on MONDAY. Yes, we agree that Woody feels that a valid coin toss did not take place. SO THAT IS WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE SAID SATURDAY NIGHT! Why make a lie of a press release and fabricate some kind of story about a future coin toss that would never take place?

    The result is that Woody gives himself a credibilty problem when he should be putting that right at Goodell's doorstep. All he created was a sideshow that distracts from Goodell's bs.

    Honesty is clearly the best policy and Woody should have told it like it was as a straight shooter and everybody would be singing his praises. Instead he comes off as a buffoon in an instance when he should have been completely in the right.
    Last edited by Queens Jet Fan; 03-17-2010 at 11:11 PM.

  17. #637
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    [QUOTE=JetsFanatic;3530370]It's nice to finally have an owner with a pulse and a pair of balls. If this were the Hess/Gutman regime, we wouldn't hear a word.

    [/QUOTE]

    [SIZE="5"]+1.[/SIZE]

    Woody's reaction and calculated statements make this week one of his most shrewd moments:

    1. Finds out about Giants getting Game 1, quickly releases information about a "public coin flip" to force the NFL's hand into doing the right thing.

    2. Goodell announces Giants get Game 1 due to his own personal coin flip, Jets get lame MNF game instead.

    3. Woody becomes the first NFL owner to speak out against the newly re-elected Commissioner, accuses him of impropriety, calls the league's integrity into question.

    4. The end result of #3 is being awarded the Thanksgiving night game and...

    5. Showing the commissioner that he's not to be treated like sh't again and...

    6. Screwing the Giants bigtime by deep-sixing their Super Bowl hosting strategy.

    Now, was Woody shown respect and did he act maturely? Nope.

    But did he retaliate in a Corleone fashion, letting it be known he wasn't going to sit by like a p*ssy and be f*cked with by the NFL and in the process figure out a way to stick it to the Giants? Yup.

    I love our owner.

    SAR I

  18. #638
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    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;3530508]Great Post and dead on the money, SAR

    Some people won't understand what you're saying here, but you couldn't be more right.

    Reminds me of Al Davis signing one of the NFL's best players the day before a meeting was to take place between Lamar Hunt and Pete Rozelle regarding a merger. Hunt and a few other AFL owners had a panic attack and told Al Davis, what are you doing, this is going to sabotoge everything! :(

    To which Davis replied .. [B]"trust me, because I did what I did you guys will be dealing from a position of much greater strength in that meeting tomorrow than you would have been otherwise"[/B] .. and he was exactly right!![/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://upload.moldova.org/movie/movies/g/godfather_part_II/thumbnails/tn2_godfather_the_II_1.jpg[/IMG]

    The news here isn't whether or not we were treated fairly, whether we got screwed out of a sunny Sunday home opener.

    The news here is that our owner continues to grow on the job, continues to fight for the team and fight for us. Woody Johnson has done more for the fans and the players than any other NFL owner in the past 3 or 4 years, refusing to accept mediocrity and striving for excellence.

    Oh, and this entire episode is going to play right into Rex Ryan's "they don't respect us!" mantra all offseason, keeping big heads small coming off of the AFC Championship Game. Perversely, the Commissioner has done the franchise and its fans a favor.

    As such, I'll be there with bells on on opening day and on Thanksgiving because I know that that's what the players expect and it's a way to show Woody our support. The NFL put us in this spot, not Mr. Johnson. Like the Jets, he's an underdog too. Time for us to stick together. Make this season a very memorable one.

    SAR I

  19. #639
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    Woody made his bed when he agreed to binding arbitration and let the NFL decide on any disputed issues between himself and the Giants regarding the new stadium. Why would he agree to something like that knowing the Jets have always been treated like *hit by the NFL since the merger. Anybody who's followed the Jets always knew the Giants were a flagship franchise of the old NFL, and they would always do whatever they could for the Mara's, so the Giants have always gotten their way. The Giants didn't own the old stadium, they were tenants,and then co-tenants with the Jets when we moved there in 84. Yet the Giants almost always opened the season at home, not the Jets. You really must not have been paying attention all these years if you ever thought the NFL would ever rule against the Giants in a situation like this. The NFL to this day still looks down upon the old AFL teams, especially the Jets.

    Woody could have ended all that by building his own stadium, but he caved.

    I agree with you about the coin toss being a sham. But legally There is nothing Woody can do about this decision, and he knows it. His flipping out act with the media really makes himself and the Jets look bad.


    [url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9905E0D71230F93AA1575AC0A9639C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2[/url]


    "Hours later, on Tuesday evening, the Jets and Giants neared an agreement to form a partnership and submit to [B]binding arbitration[/B]"
    Last edited by 2009fatman; 03-18-2010 at 12:39 AM.

  20. #640
    Listen grandmas, the sunday afternoon opener is an afterthought. Opening the stadium on national TV is the real christening.

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