Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 110

Thread: idle thoughts - be careful what you wish for....

  1. #81
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LEt it go, LET IT GO: The cold never bothered me anyway
    Posts
    9,229
    [QUOTE=FF2;3529169][B]In March[/B]? :confused:

    (What, not a Robbie Agnone fan?)[/QUOTE]

    Kinda.

  2. #82
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Big Apple, USA
    Posts
    22,219
    It's kind of humorous to read patttycake fans comparing running backs

    the Jets have Shonn Greene, a young stud, LT and Leon Washington and TRich at FB


    the Pattycakes have Maroney, a total bust, the AARP boys - Morris and Taylor and Faulk who is only a receiver


    like comparing a Ferrari with a Yugo

  3. #83
    ken,

    ... thank you for your answer ...

    [QUOTE]
    Originally Posted by patsfanken
    They also seem to have bought into the MYTH that ACromartie is a pro bowl level CB that will somehow elevate the Jets defense,

    How about these for impressive stats- for 16 games the latest Jets "Beast" managed 30 tackles, 3 picks, no forced fumbles, and a whopping 9 passes defended. Are you telling me that Lito Shepard didn't put up better stats than this?????????? .

    [/QUOTE]


    [QUOTE]
    Originally Posted by l_j_r
    ... ken, do you really not believe cromartie to be an upgrade over sheppard? ...

    ... in addition to us green-colored glasses wearing fans ... it also has seemed that most prognosticators, talking heads, ex-jocks, and so-callled experts believe this to be an upgrade for us ...

    ... the results one way or the other will certainly not be known until training camp/preseason/regular season/post-season 2010 ... but it wouldn't seem to be that lofty of a goal to show improvement at the #2 cb spot ...

    ... it would be more like upgrading otis smith than in his heyday ty law ...

    ... the venomous objection to cromartie > sheppard seems a bit misplaced ...
    [/QUOTE]


    [QUOTE]
    Originally Posted by patsfanken

    Sorry, let me do it now.

    I actually looked up Lito's stats and somewhat surprisingly found that they were JUST AS BAD as Cromartie's. 28 tackles, 1 pick, and 9 passes defended. But didn't Lito miss several games (I don't know how many). IIRC Cromartie needed all 16 games to amass his horrid numbers (30, 3 and 10)

    Remember when Shepard came to the Jets, he also had a great (all Pro) Year previously. He also played in an aggressive D in Philly. He also never came close to playing at that all pro level.
    [/QUOTE]



    ... i will take your answer to mean you still believe sheppard > cromartie but are open to the possibility that they may be equal players ...



    [QUOTE]
    Originally Posted by patsfanken

    BTW- do you think he would be back with the Jets if he didn't have that big bonus coming?
    [/QUOTE]

    ... i think mikey t, like all gm's, had plans a,b,c,d,etc. as far as ways to improve his team ...

    ... our most glaring weakness (tied in to lack of pass rush, as that would have helped mask this) was the #2 cb spot against top qb's ...

    ... if he had a team friendly salary i certainly believe he'd have been on the roster through the draft ... while improving his roster spot would still be the front office's priority #1 ... if something like the cromartie move wasn't worked out the intent would probably been draft cb round 1 ... then let them battle it out in training camp ... lito would be lip serviced as the incumbent but the coaching staff would be ready to pull the move to the rookie if he showed promise ...

    ... long story short, with no bonus i believe we'd have kept him as an insurance policy ... while still having the intent to upgrade his position ... possibly cutting him early in the season if a draft pick was showing promise ...




    l_j_r

    (now let me move on to your post)

  4. #84
    [QUOTE=OCCH]
    Not much to add that hasn't already been said, so I'll focus on the title "Be careful what you wish for" . . .

    1) All Jet fans knew we needed a better option opposite Revis. I don't know what REALISTIC alternative would have been better than Cromartie. You can quote stats all you want, but the fact is he's never played opposite a stud like Revis, and his best year of production came when he was in an attacking style of defense like the Jets employ. He may not be "shutdown", but you'd be hard-pressed to say he's not a legit #1 CB. Will he pan out? Time will tell. But we DEFINITELY got "what we wished for" and don't see how the Jets could have played that one any better.

    2) Will Rhodes be a mistake? Possibly. I don't know too many Jet fans who are HAPPY to see him go, but if the CS doesn't feel he's the "right guy", at least we got an above-average replacement (IF he stays healthy), additional draft picks, and some cap-room for the players we DO want to build around. If you're honest, you'd agree Jet fans aren't doing cartwheels over this one, but rather trusting the FO to turn it into a positive move.

    3) LT is a bad pickup if Greene goes down, but a better COMPLIMENT to Greene if he stays healthy. I don't think the FO can go in EXPECTING things to go wrong. They signed the player who brings an added dimension to the offense, and if things don't go according to plan, they'll have to improvise -- like EVERY FO. But the attention people are giving a BACKUP RB is really getting ridiculous.

    4) Unlike the Pats, who are mostly entrenched in their system, the Jets had a rookie QB, a rookie coach, MAJOR players injured (Jenks/Leon) . . . the argument could be made that they will be better BY DEFAULT, nevermind the additions that have been/will be made in the offseason.

    Tried to give a legitimate response to a (hopefully) legitimate thread. This upcoming season should be a fun one. You guys have the experience (which can't be understated) . . . hopefully we have the hunger to get there.
    [/QUOTE]

    ... :clapper: ... very well said, i agree with this ... :clapper: ...





    ... let me see if there is anything else i feel the need to add ...

    ... i guess i'll just reiterate the points above in general ...

    ... the role of the 3 players in question is #2 cb, #2/#3 rb, & s ... we are not expecting probowl performances here or these players to lead our team ... what we are expecting is improvement at #2 cb, similar production at #2/#3 rb, & i believe we weakened s with the hope of more aggessive run support will outweigh loss of range & athleticism ... and roll the dice that past concussions do not become an issue ...

    ... we have also positioned ourselves nicely going into the draft to pick BAP ... although i personally feel they will limit that to DE,DT,OLB,CB with the 1st pick & the same with the additions of WR & S with the 2nd pick ...

    ... all in all we will have to wait to see if the changes work out for us or if they don't ... but trying something different at #2 cb (the main reason we lost the afc cg) is a smart move by the front office ...

    ... nicely stated OCCH ...














    l_j_r
    Last edited by ljr@work; 03-17-2010 at 08:34 AM.

  5. #85
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    N.Attleboro, MA
    Posts
    3,868
    [QUOTE=Ray Ray19;3529334]LOL, it's so funny watching you spin![/QUOTE]
    Why is what I write spin, while what you write is objective????????

    First you are counting on Greene to be your bellweather RB, when, althoiugh he's shown he's a talented RB (there are a lot in the league), he has also shown the propensity to get hurt (THREE times just last season). You ASSUME that LW is coming back 100%, while at the same time assuming that Welker ISN'T. Finally you ASSUME that while everyone else in the league understands that LT is done. Somehow because he suddenly dons a green jersey he will miraculously become an effective performer...or even a decent back up.

    And Moroney is a "total" bust, even though he's averaged over 4ypc throughout his career, and what has made him a disappoint to some Pats fans is the fact he CAN'T stay healthy.....Kind of like Greene's problem eh? :rolleyes:

  6. #86
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Cedar Grove, New Jersey
    Posts
    6,759
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3529801]Why is what I write spin, while what you write is objective????????

    First you are counting on Greene to be your bellweather RB, when, althoiugh he's shown he's a talented RB (there are a lot in the league), he has also shown the propensity to get hurt (THREE times just last season). You ASSUME that LW is coming back 100%, while at the same time assuming that Welker ISN'T. Finally you ASSUME that while everyone else in the league understands that LT is done. Somehow because he suddenly dons a green jersey he will miraculously become an effective performer...or even a decent back up.

    And Moroney is a "total" bust, even though he's averaged over 4ypc throughout his career, and what has made him a disappoint to some Pats fans is the fact he CAN'T stay healthy.....Kind of like Greene's problem eh? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    Moroney has certainly been a dissapointment, not just injuries; I feel he failed to insert himself into the gameplan, or maybe he wasn't ever included. He's slow, has got heavy feet and for a man running behind the pats oline (06-08 it was pretty damn good) with all that starpower around him (Brady, Welker, Moss) it seemed like running the ball for the pats became a hinderence and that ultimately falls on Moroney. Not a terrible pick but he's been dissapointing.

  7. #87
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3529801]Why is what I write spin, while what you write is objective????????

    First you are counting on Greene to be your bellweather RB, when, althoiugh he's shown he's a talented RB (there are a lot in the league), he has also shown the propensity to get hurt (THREE times just last season). You ASSUME that LW is coming back 100%, while at the same time assuming that Welker ISN'T. Finally you ASSUME that while everyone else in the league understands that LT is done. Somehow because he suddenly dons a green jersey he will miraculously become an effective performer...or even a decent back up.

    And Moroney is a "total" bust, even though he's averaged over 4ypc throughout his career, and what has made him a disappoint to some Pats fans is the fact he CAN'T stay healthy.....Kind of like Greene's problem eh? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


    Sounds more like LT will be similar to TJ was last year - keep Greene fresh, I doubt you will see Greene get the milage we put on TJ last year - the whole idea is to keep him fresh, he will get more carries this year for sure - but I don't think he's the bellweather that many think he will be.

    Everyone who thinks LT is done is totally blowing smoke out of their ass. TJ was done 2 years ago, and look at his stats from the last 2 years - this O line is night and day from sandiego's schmuck of an oline. The people who are saying LT is done are the same ones that had the Jets 0-5 to start last year.

    Maroney is not bad - but forget about injuries - his problem is fumbalitus, and he seems to drop it at the worst possible times - you can just tell BB can't stand him because of that.

  8. #88
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,362
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3529801]Why is what I write spin, while what you write is objective????????

    First you are counting on Greene to be your bellweather RB, when, althoiugh he's shown he's a talented RB (there are a lot in the league), he has also shown the propensity to get hurt (THREE times just last season). You ASSUME that LW is coming back 100%, while at the same time assuming that Welker ISN'T. Finally you ASSUME that while everyone else in the league understands that LT is done. Somehow because he suddenly dons a green jersey he will miraculously become an effective performer...or even a decent back up.

    And Moroney is a "total" bust, even though he's averaged over 4ypc throughout his career, and what has made him a disappoint to some Pats fans is the fact he CAN'T stay healthy.....Kind of like Greene's problem eh? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    I'll only address the point I take issue with (albeit slightly).....Leon's recovery schedule has him coming back before the start of training camp - I don't think Welker's is on the same pace. From what I understand (and I'm no doctor), the biggest issue of the magnitude of his injury would have presented itself right away - i.e. a bone breaking the skin is subject to infection. By all accounts, his healing is ahead of schedule. Welker's injury often takes up to a year to heal. If I had to bet on one of them contributing at the beginning of the year, it would be Leon. Both have a 6-12 month recovery time. Leon's surgery was in October, Welker's was in February.

    But, I think the acquisition of LDT makes it pretty clear that no one is putting all the eggs in Leon's basket, even for the complementary role of receiver out of the backfield. If you think he's completely done (not just as a bellcow back), I guess we'll find out in September. I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. Granted, he's not getting the ball 20+ times week in, week out, but I will not be surprised to see him get the majority of carries in a game on one or more occasions this year.

    Bottom line, Leon, LDT and Greene is better than TJ, Greene and Woodhead, and that gave us the best running game in the league.
    Last edited by crasherino; 03-17-2010 at 02:10 PM.

  9. #89
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    N.Attleboro, MA
    Posts
    3,868
    [QUOTE=jetsfan_toronto_canada;3529834]Sounds more like LT will be similar to TJ was last year - keep Greene fresh, I doubt you will see Greene get the milage we put on TJ last year - the whole idea is to keep him fresh, he will get more carries this year for sure - but I don't think he's the bellweather that many think he will be.

    Everyone who thinks LT is done is totally blowing smoke out of their ass. TJ was done 2 years ago, and look at his stats from the last 2 years - this O line is night and day from sandiego's schmuck of an oline. The people who are saying LT is done are the same ones that had the Jets 0-5 to start last year.

    Maroney is not bad - but forget about injuries - his problem is fumbalitus, and he seems to drop it at the worst possible times - you can just tell BB can't stand him because of that.[/QUOTE]

    First I realized I screwed up. The term I was going for was Bell Cow, not Bell weather. Bell cow meaning lead cow....or lead back. Bell weather meaning....I don't know what I was thinking ;)

    First if you think about LT playing behind a bad OL, you then have to consider the fact that he couldn't put up yardage against some of the worst D's in the league, in the worst division.

    Moroney's fumble issues aren't about the amount of time he fumbles (he actually fumbles quite rarely (only 4 times last season and 5 times in his entire career (545 attempts). UNFORTUNATELY, at least 2 of those fumbles occurred while he was going into the endzone. VERY BAD timing

    As to Crash's last post - I would disagree strongly but with a caveat with his last opinion. Greene, LT and LW is NOT as good as group as Green TJ and LW. THrowing Danny Woodhead in there was not a realistic or fair option.

    BTW- my main point about Greene is that Jet fans are just naturally ASSUMING that Greene can be counted on to be a 1400+yd runner, based on his fine efforts at the end of the year. And he might very well be one, EXCEPT for the fact he hasn't shown that he can hold up under the stress of 16 games.

    I don't make this a concern blindly. Ask any Pats fans if they thought that Moroney WOULDN'T be a "Bell Cow" running back after watching him run HIS first year averaging 4.5ypc....and then the injuries starting to happen. And just when we all thought he turned the corner with a great playoff run in 2007, he's been injured for the better part of the last 3 years again.

    That may NEVER happen to Green, but it DOES happen quite often to RBs in this league, even the best of them. So to give up on a guy who has just rushed 1400+ yds to pick up another guy for the same price who offers less, just makes no sense ESPECIALLY since your other 2 RBs is a 3rd down back coming off a serious injury, and a Rookie who was hurt 3 times, never carrying the ball more than 20 times before the playoffs....and when he did....he got...hurt. :eek:

  10. #90
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Big Apple, USA
    Posts
    22,219
    it sure would be terrific if you confined your detailed analyses (more complex than those of DWC if such can be imagined) to your beloved Pattycakes who are far more in need of help at this time than are the Jets and posted them at Patfans.com where they would be appreciated

  11. #91
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    N.Attleboro, MA
    Posts
    3,868
    [QUOTE=sg3;3530292]it sure would be terrific if you confined your detailed analyses (more complex than those of DWC if such can be imagined) to your beloved Pattycakes who are far more in need of help at this time than are the Jets and posted them at Patfans.com where they would be appreciated[/QUOTE]

    You're just annoyed because this a civil football discussion amongst knowledgeable football fans from 2 different teams, and YOU haven't got the chops to participate....or, apparently, the attention span. :D

    You'll just have to go back in your basement and sulk until you can find a more appropriate thread for your bitter screed. ;)

  12. #92
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LEt it go, LET IT GO: The cold never bothered me anyway
    Posts
    9,229
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3530283]

    [B]BTW- my main point about Greene is that Jet fans are just naturally ASSUMING that Greene can be counted on to be a 1400+yd runner, based on his fine efforts at the end of the year.[/B] And he might very well be one, EXCEPT for the fact he hasn't shown that he can hold up under the stress of 16 games.

    [/QUOTE]

    Wrong again Kenneth.

    79% of Jets fans DONT think Greene will rush for 1500 yards. I know u said 1400, but u get where im headed.

    [URL="http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210444"]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210444[/URL]

    In all fairness, you should probably just stick to posting about Patriots non-moves this offseason.

    While its far LESS exciting than a Jets offseason, its probably an agenda better suited for you.

  13. #93
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Section 8
    Posts
    1,037
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3530300]You're just annoyed because this a civil football discussion amongst knowledgeable football fans from 2 different teams, and YOU haven't got the chops to participate....or, apparently, the attention span. :D

    You'll just have to go back in your basement and sulk until you can find a more appropriate thread for your bitter screed. ;)[/QUOTE]

    heh....BINGO ! :yes:

  14. #94
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Section 8
    Posts
    1,037
    [QUOTE=sdJETSetter;3530305]Wrong again Kenneth.

    79% of Jets fans DONT think Greene will rush for 1500 yards. I know u said 1400, but u get where im headed.

    [URL="http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210444"]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210444[/URL]

    In all fairness, you should probably just stick to posting about Patriots non-moves this offseason.

    While its far LESS exciting than a Jets offseason, its probably an agenda better suited for you.[/QUOTE]

    Pats best moves so far were signing a few of their own...Wilfork..Bodden and Banta-Cain.

    Pats early off season signings aren't usually too exciting.

    Jets off season signings always have them headed in the right direction. Tell me again when they finished ahead of the Pats in the AFC East ?

    I'm from Missouri

  15. #95
    [QUOTE=FauxJet07;3530314]Pats best moves so far were signing a few of their own...Wilfork..Bodden and Banta-Cain.

    Pats early off season signings aren't usually too exciting.

    Jets off season signings always have them headed in the right direction. Tell me again when they finished ahead of the Pats in the AFC East ?

    I'm from Missouri[/QUOTE]

    WOW..what insight.

    AFter your done with the clean up on aisle 9, the NFL wants you.

  16. #96
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LEt it go, LET IT GO: The cold never bothered me anyway
    Posts
    9,229
    [QUOTE=FauxJet07;3530314]Pats best moves so far were signing a few of their own...Wilfork..Bodden and Banta-Cain.

    [B]Pats early off season signings aren't usually too exciting.[/B]

    Jets off season signings always have them headed in the right direction. Tell me again when they finished ahead of the Pats in the AFC East ?

    I'm from Missouri[/QUOTE]

    Neither was their playoff game last year.

    Look skippy, I never said the Jets were better than the Pats. They are the cream of the crop in the AFCEAST until they get dethroned.

    Now you tell me, would you rather have a better record, or go 2 games further in the postseason.:yes:

  17. #97
    IMO Patsfanken brings up some very valid points.

    I'm inclined to believe Cromartie will play much better with the Jets because he will now be playing the kind of coverage he prefers, but once again who knows?

    Brodney Poole IMO is most certainly a downgrade from Kerry Rhodes, however, I don't believe the Jets are done picking up safeties for the team. If they don't, then we find out very quickly in 2010 that losing Kerry Rhodes hurt our team.

    The LT signing makes NO sense to me whatsoever. We could have easily drafted a guy and paid him on the cheap in comparison to LT that would have served the same purpose as LT and had much younger legs and perhaps become Shonn Greene's successor.

    At the end of the day, and realize it is only the end of the day March 17, there is still much more to happen before we are looking at the Jets final 2010 roster. At the end of the day, I do not believe we have gotten better in the least bit. I would think we are NO better than last year and more likely worse than 2009.

    I cannot understate the importance of this offseason. We are in a perfect position to do great things in 2010, but ONLY if we have a good offseason. Right now it does not appear as though we have...

  18. #98
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    great midwest -well not so great
    Posts
    9,447
    [QUOTE=el_dub80;3528947]Well, I don't think they'll be a 'tuck rule' or a 'Brady beggin' for a flag' away from advancing out of the first round :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    ya forgot something
    [URL="http://www.homespy.com/"]http://www.homespy.com/[/URL]

  19. #99
    [QUOTE=Mainejet;3530323]IMO Patsfanken brings up some very valid points.

    I'm inclined to believe Cromartie will play much better with the Jets because he will now be playing the kind of coverage he prefers, but once again who knows?

    Brodney Poole IMO is most certainly a downgrade from Kerry Rhodes, however, I don't believe the Jets are done picking up safeties for the team. If they don't, then we find out very quickly in 2010 that losing Kerry Rhodes hurt our team.

    The LT signing makes NO sense to me whatsoever. We could have easily drafted a guy and paid him on the cheap in comparison to LT that would have served the same purpose as LT and had much younger legs and perhaps become Shonn Greene's successor.

    At the end of the day, and realize it is only the end of the day March 17, there is still much more to happen before we are looking at the Jets final 2010 roster. At the end of the day, I do not believe we have gotten better in the least bit. I would think we are NO better than last year and [B]more likely worse than 2009.[/B]
    I cannot understate the importance of this offseason. We are in a perfect position to do great things in 2010, but ONLY if we have a good offseason. Right now it does not appear as though we have...[/QUOTE]

    I could not disagree more.

    Sure nothing is guaranteed, but odds are:

    1) Cromartie > Sheppard (by A LOT)
    2) Pool < Rhodes as a PLAYER, but could very well be > Rhodes in our SYSTEM (especially with the improvement at CB)
    3) LT > TJ in regards to the different dimension he adds to the team
    4) Both sides of the ball have a year of experience under their belt, so we should expect some level of improvement BEFORE all these changes are taken into consideration

    IMO TJ was not a difference-maker, and Rhodes chose not to be one either.

    We made the changes we felt needed to be made (admittedly not done yet) . . . now we just have to see if those changes work . . .

  20. #100
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In The Cone of Doom
    Posts
    7,090
    2000+ views, almost 100 responses. Nice trolling Ken! I can only hope to some
    day ascend to that level! You and PFT are DaMen! :D

    [IMG]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/BP_2006/FishChum-1.jpg[/IMG]

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us