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Thread: What do the Jets NEED. Who do the Jets need to go the next step?

  1. #1
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    What do the Jets NEED. Who do the Jets need to go the next step?

    Lets look at the draft from the inside out. What do the Jets need to do FIRST to get where they want to go? The need to win the division. Period. Thats Goal #1.

    Lets break it down...Can the Jets handle the bills with the team they have as-is? Yes. No problem imo.

    How about the Dolphins? Can the Jets sweep the Fish this year with the team being as constituted? Well, they lost to them on bad clock management and bad STs last year...but that was before the Jets Defense became what it became. As for Specials, coverage was atrocious because of some guys left off the gameday roster. I think with a year of experience for both Rex and the Jet D, as well as leaving STs ALONE, these are easily fixable rookie mistakes. So yeah, I think that as the roster stands today, 4/2/10, the Jets can and would sweep the Fins in '10.

    Patriots are the true test for the Jets. This Jets team AS-IS right now split with the Pats, so yeah, the Jets have the ability to beat the Pats.....but they also have the ability to lose. And HOW did the Jets lose to the Pats in that second game? By being helpless to cover a 5'8 Slot Receiver the entire game. Welker ate the Jets D up all game. Nobody could go with him.

    So the Jets won some games they should have, and lost a bunch they shouldn't have. A LOT of that was lack of experience showing itself from Sanchez and Rex. Not worried about that....going to a Conference Championship gives you a lot more experience than just any first year.

    So then the Playoffs started, lets face it, The Jets, On the road, were able to pretty handily beat Cincy and the Chargers. So what kept the Jets from going all the way?

    The Colts. They hung with them for a bit, but after a couple of early sacks and hits, the protection solidified and Peyton went to work.....working the Jets secondary. The Jets had NO ANSWER for Garcon AT ALL. Austin Collie had a decent day. Wayne and Clark were pretty well bottled up, but it didn't matter. The Colts go 5 Solid deep at WR.

    Lets also take a look at another "Player" in the AFC. The Steelers are no longer your daddys "Pound the rock and play Defense" Team. Roethelesberger and Holmes et al want to THROW the ball all over the field.

    So whats the point of all this? The Jets CAN play DAMNED GOOD Run Defense as is....heck, they did it last year without Jenkins and got better! Think how they will be up front with Jenks added to the mix. Revis is awesome, but how good will cromartie be with the Jets? Will Poole stay healthy?

    As for the pass rush, the Jets last year needed to blitz in order to free guys up to get sacks. Pace is good coming from the edge, but isn't elite. B Thomas is serviceable and a good role player, but not t real threat from the edge......and remember, after hitting Manning twice early, the Jets NEVER got a sniff of his jersey the rest of the game, leaving him to pick the weakspots out and light up the Jets.


    So what do you do? Go "BPA" and snag Demaryus Thomas? Or take the BEST AVAILABLE Edge Rusher or DB, whoever is rated higher on my board. Next round, Same damned thing, or maybe then I move up to grab the BPA at whichever position I didn't grab in the first.

    That way I KNOW I'm potentially adding a possibly elite edge rusher and a solid CB to the defense. That way, the next time I see the Colts I know I'm bringing a UMP .45 to the gunfight instead of a six shooter....

    After that, go BPA. But I shore up that D. I don't want to see Rex on the Sidelines of another AFC Championship yellig, "DO we have ANYONE that can F$&#^&ing Cover!?"....

    I'm not for drafting all and only Defense....I WOULD love to see the Jets grab a WR to compliment Cotch and Braylon....as well as a possible future RT or G. Faneca and Woody, I love the guys, they are bad and play like MEN, but time waits for no man....
    Last edited by Jet_Engine1; 04-03-2010 at 10:49 PM.

  2. #2


    A guy you can build the DL around for the next 5-10 years. Improves every aspect of the D...
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-03-2010 at 10:53 PM.

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    OK Mr. Cat. I'll play your silly Game. DO you think that if Kris Jenkins played at 100% in that Colts game, the Jets win? Was a giant NT the answer? Because I think even best case scenario for Cody would be as a servicable situational NT, but no Jenks...

    I want the Jets to get the elements they need NOW to go one step further. DT is not the reason why the COlts beat the Jets. Inability to cover options 3 & 4 as well as inability to keep getting to Peyton lost that game for the Jets.

    We're just fine at DT (Pouha, Jenks, DeVito). We have no force as a Pass Rusher (Pace is good, not elite), and outside of Revis, we have NOTHING but ?????????? in the secondary right now.

  4. #4
    OK Mr. Cat. I'll play your silly Game. DO you think that if Kris Jenkins played at 100% in that Colts game, the Jets win? Was a giant NT the answer? Because I think even best case scenario for Cody would be as a servicable situational NT, but no Jenks...
    1. No, but that's because the Colts are a better team. It probably would have been closer and/or more exciting to watch.

    2. No, but we're not trying to beat the 2009 Colts over the next 5-10 years.

    3. A giant DL is the key to this whole D Rex runs.

    4. A giant DL improves our pass rush.

    5. A giant DL improves our secondary player.

    6. Try not overvaluing the fact that we lost to the Colts in the AFCCG. That game has nothing to do with anything anymore.

    7. The Ravens best pass rusher (Suggs) has had 17.5 sacks combined over the past 3 years. Pass rush isn't about sacks or one guy in this D....

    8. I can already garaun-f'ing-tee that DeMaryius Thomas isn't the BPA at 29.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-03-2010 at 11:35 PM.

  5. #5
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    Good thread, good points made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    1. No, but that's because the Colts are a better team. It probably would have been closer and/or more exciting to watch.

    2. No, but we're not trying to beat the 2009 Colts over the next 5-10 years.

    3. A giant DL is the key to this whole D Rex runs.

    4. A giant DL improves our pass rush.

    5. A giant DL improves our secondary player.

    6. Try not overvaluing the fact that we lost to the Colts in the AFCCG. That game has nothing to do with anything anymore.

    7. The Ravens best pass rusher (Suggs) has had 17.5 sacks combined over the past 3 years. Pass rush isn't about sacks or one guy in this D....

    8. I can already garaun-f'ing-tee that DeMaryius Thomas isn't the BPA at 29.
    You know Cody is a second round talent right? He shows no motivation on tape, and isn't even strong at the point of attack, hes just a space waster. He will get pushed back in the NFL. No Question. Alan Branch part II just worse.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by raysdaone View Post
    You know Cody is a second round talent right? He shows no motivation on tape, and isn't even strong at the point of attack, hes just a space waster. He will get pushed back in the NFL. No Question. Alan Branch part II just worse.
    So is Thomas but no one here seems to care....Same for Jerry Hughes...

    Also, how does one show motivation on tape besides playing well (which Cody did)? He was a much better college DT than Branch, and with way more character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    So is Thomas but no one here seems to care....Same for Jerry Hughes...

    Also, how does one show motivation on tape besides playing well (which Cody did)? He was a much better college DT than Branch, and with way more character.
    Actually Thomas has first round talent: Reported 4.38 speed. You cant compare the tape of Cody to Thomas'. How can you like someone that looks so flabby? NT's are suppose to be thick, not sloppy with breast. And on tape Cody seems like a slacker with average strength. I'd rather have Tebow on my team than Cody, and I wouldn't touch Tebow not even with a 5th round pick. Jerry Hughes is second round talent you can go back to January when I said that.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by raysdaone View Post
    Actually Thomas has first round talent: Reported 4.38 speed. You cant compare the tape of Cody to Thomas'. How can you like someone that looks so flabby? NT's are suppose to be thick, not sloppy with breast. And on tape Cody seems like a slacker with average strength. I'd rather have Tebow on my team than Cody, and I wouldn't touch Tebow not even with a 5th round pick. Jerry Hughes is second round talent you can go back to January when I said that.
    What's this on tape thing? Are we talking strictly Youtube highlights here? Cody was in a better league, at a more important position, has big time NFL size, has a better work ethic than headlines seem to make people think, was an elite run stopper in that better conference, played DE on Saban's 3 man line at times, sometimes dropped into coverage in Saban's D, and was used as a lead blocker in a goal line offensive formation. Not only that, but he contributed significantly on ST's with the two legendary blocked kicks against Tennessee. Dude was a beast in college, fat or not fat.

    Now he's down to 348. He's got 3 months until camp. He can be down to a pretty decent rookie (still flabby) 335-340. Dude's going to be a really good player in this league if he gets into shape, and I buy that he wants to do it by what he's done.

    Thomas isn't a first round WR. Maybe someone makes a reach, but if there's a 3rd and 4th WR drafted in the first it's Tate and Benn (given Bryant and Williams). His resume isn't as good as Cody's, he's not from a pro style offense, he doesn't run crisp routes, his routes aren't varied, he's not all that quick like Bryant, Tate, Williams, and Benn are "on tape," and he just broke his foot. Yes, he has strengths and the strengths are very valuable. He's got a good frame, he finds the ball in the air and goes up and gets it, he's a high character guy, and he learned alot from Calvin Johnson. Sure, guy can definitely be eased into our offense, but I'd rather "ease in" a DL with elite potential over WR with the same anyday.

    Also, there are tons of fat NT at one point or another. They're naturally very large men, that will happen if they don't watch their weight. Cody didn't even know how to watch his weight until recently in life. Every single big DT in this league has been fat at one point or another. Cody happens to be fat right now. Our current NT was a "fat DT who'd always be fat" when we got him. That's a great mentor, this is a great environment, and this is the perfect D for his size and athleticism.

    All that's moot because it's more likely he doesn't make it to 29 than he actually makes it to the 2nd round. Thomas still wouldn't be BPA at 29, but he'd be alot closer. Carlos Dunlap would be nice if he was there at 29, but I'd take Cody over him probably.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-04-2010 at 03:08 AM.

  10. #10
    to get the jets to the next level within the next 2-3 years:

    1) sanchez must improve, which we all know is obvious;

    2) the jets need a better pass rush. whether that comes from the linebackers or defensive ends, that's rex's/tanny's decision on draft day.

    3) the jets need another weapon in the passing game.

    in terms of last year, the guy on the jets roster who would have helped against the dolphins, colts and patriots was leon. the first answer many will give is that the jets need another cb to cover the welkers, and i don't disagree.

    however, sometimes the other team's offense is going to score no matter what. that's what can happen when you play against hall of fame qbs. and in those games the best way to counter that is to have an equally explosive offense. a guy like tate or damien williams would really open up the offense, as well as having leon back (or someone like him, should he get traded).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by raysdaone View Post
    Actually Thomas has first round talent: Reported 4.38 speed. You cant compare the tape of Cody to Thomas'. How can you like someone that looks so flabby? NT's are suppose to be thick, not sloppy with breast. And on tape Cody seems like a slacker with average strength. I'd rather have Tebow on my team than Cody, and I wouldn't touch Tebow not even with a 5th round pick. Jerry Hughes is second round talent you can go back to January when I said that.
    I dont think you want to compare the tape between Cody and Thomas. Cody's tape is actualy his strenghth right now. Thomas is a WR who played in a triple option offense....pretty sure his tape is not going to be too telling. Cody has made a lot of plays in the SEC...against a lot of good teams. You can make the point that you may think Thomas is a better prospect or has more upside....but to say that based on tape is a flawed argument.

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    Cody is a good prospect for a 3-4 team and his size just doesn't come around often. Thomas is very similar in this regard at WR. 6'3" 225, runs sub 4.4 and has tremendous hands and leaping ability. He'll be a #1 WR in 2 years.

    On my big board for the Jets, Cody and Thomas are very close and both are top 25 on that board.

    And Benn has no business anywhere near the 1st round. I'll be pretty unhappy if they take Benn at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post

    And Benn has no business anywhere near the 1st round. I'll be pretty unhappy if they take Benn at all.
    Really? I'm a Benn fan. When I see him, I see a lot of Boldin. Physical guys with speed who can make a play. Wouldn't mind him at all at 29.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Cody is a good prospect for a 3-4 team and his size just doesn't come around often. Thomas is very similar in this regard at WR. 6'3" 225, runs sub 4.4 and has tremendous hands and leaping ability. He'll be a #1 WR in 2 years.

    On my big board for the Jets, Cody and Thomas are very close and both are top 25 on that board.

    And Benn has no business anywhere near the 1st round. I'll be pretty unhappy if they take Benn at all.
    WRs that aren't polished don't go in the first round. It's a position where alot more than size and speed come into play. It's why I can't buy Thomas as a first round pick. Sure, he can be a #1 WR in two years...just like Marshall, Colston, and Ward (amongst many others, I picked them because they're also awesome run blockers)...guys who became top WRs outside of the first round. There are many, many talented WRs...the difference between the top ones and everyone else is a matter of polish at the position. He doesn't even get separation against ACC corners to a first round level...

    I personally don't want Benn on this team, but he's more likely to be a first round prospect at WR than Thomas is just because he's closer to being a finished product. He's quicker than Thomas, he runs more routes, and all those little things.

    Thomas is basically a frame, some straight line speed, awesome run blocking, and a sh*tload of potential. After that, his flaws are large and obvious. The fact that he broke his foot doesn't help him right now, even if there is this video of a 4.38 40 out there somewhere.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-04-2010 at 11:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    WRs that aren't polished don't go in the first round. It's a position where alot more than size and speed come into play. It's why I can't buy Thomas as a first round pick. Sure, he can be a #1 WR in two years...just like Marshall, Colston, and Ward (amongst many others, I picked them because they're also awesome run blockers)...guys who became top WRs outside of the first round. There are many, many talented WRs...the difference between the top ones and everyone else is a matter of polish at the position. He doesn't even get separation against ACC corners to a first round level...

    I personally don't want Benn on this, but he's more likely to be a first round prospect at WR than Thomas is just because he's closer to being a finished product. He's quicker than Thomas, he runs more routes, and all those little things.

    Thomas is basically a frame, some straight line speed, awesome run blocking, and a sh*tload of potential. After that, his flaws are large and obvious. The fact that he broke his foot doesn't help him right now, even if there is this video of a 4.38 40 out there somewhere.
    I guess I just don't see eye-to-eye with you on Thomas.

    I think he'll take to coaching very well and will be running routes in no time with an NFL staff. Reading coverages will be a different, more drawn out process with him. But I don't think it will take very long for them to show him how to properly run a slant or a dig or an out.

    One thing that he does, and does very well, is find the endzone.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I guess I just don't see eye-to-eye with you on Thomas.

    I think he'll take to coaching very well and will be running routes in no time with an NFL staff. Reading coverages will be a different, more drawn out process with him. But I don't think it will take very long for them to show him how to properly run a slant or a dig or an out.

    One thing that he does, and does very well, is find the endzone.
    Oh I have little doubts he'll take coaching well and do all those things. But the fact that he's so far behind those other guys in development will keep him out of the first. I just believe that WRs get drafted in the first round for their polish rather than their size and potential.

    There's tons of non-1st round WRs who are top WRs...it's not an insult on Thomas...it's that guys with his profile coming out of college rarely actually go in the first, even if they get the talk. I think where Thomas went in our big mock is right where he'll go in real life...very early 2nd to a WR starved offense like TB. Hell, TB is probably the team that would pick him there if they didn't grab Bryant at 3 (which they might not).
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-04-2010 at 11:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Oh I have little doubts he'll take coaching well and do all those things. But the fact that he's so far behind those other guys in development will keep him out of the first. I just believe that WRs get drafted in the first round for their polish rather than their size and potential.

    There's tons of non-1st round WRs who are top WRs...it's not an insult on Thomas...it's that guys with his profile coming out of college rarely actually go in the first, even if they get the talk. I think where Thomas went in our big mock is right where he'll go in real life...very early 2nd to a WR starved offense like TB. Hell, TB is probably the team that would pick him there if they didn't grab Bryant at 3 (which they might not).
    The truth is, there's a good deal of projecting involved with any player that's drafted. He's the type of rare athlete that teams will take a chance on in the 1st round because they believe they can mold him into an all-pro.

    It's all about finding hard working guys with top tier ability. And it's not like he doesn't have any of this polish you speak of. He makes plays on the ball better than anyone not named Bryant. What players that came out in recent memory have a similar profile to Thomas?

    I'll stand by my position of if he was able to work out, he would be going top15, polish or not. Players that big, fast and athletic with ball skills don't last very long.

    You act like teams only take WRs from a Pro-Style system with 3 years of playing time and unquestioned route running in the 1st round. That just isn't the case. I mean, Matt Jones was a QB convert and taken in the 1st round. The 1st round is where athletic freaks go. Does JPP have any business being a top 15 pick? Probably not. But it's where he's going because teams fall in love with size and speed.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    The truth is, there's a good deal of projecting involved with any player that's drafted. He's the type of rare athlete that teams will take a chance on in the 1st round because they believe they can mold him into an all-pro.

    It's all about finding hard working guys with top tier ability. And it's not like he doesn't have any of this polish you speak of. He makes plays on the ball better than anyone not named Bryant. What players that came out in recent memory have a similar profile to Thomas?

    I'll stand by my position of if he was able to work out, he would be going top15, polish or not. Players that big, fast and athletic with ball skills don't last very long.

    You act like teams only take WRs from a Pro-Style system with 3 years of playing time and unquestioned route running in the 1st round. That just isn't the case. I mean, Matt Jones was a QB convert and taken in the 1st round. The 1st round is where athletic freaks go. Does JPP have any business being a top 15 pick? Probably not. But it's where he's going because teams fall in love with size and speed.
    Devin Thomas just two years ago lasted alllll the way to 34...and he played in a more pro offense. This is with him blowing up workouts all offseason after a very good season at MSU. Malcolm Kelly too went in the 2nd...It's really not that rare for a WR who isn't a finished product to not go in the first.

    The fact is, the position has a ton of athletes at it...it's WR it's a position made for athletes. The minor things separate guys, and Thomas doesn't have that full package of little things that add up into big things. Sure, he CAN be there in two years, but alot of guys at alot of positions can have that said about him in this draft.

    Also, Matt Jones is not a pick any team would make twice, and Jones didn't have a broken foot at the time. JPP...well at least he has positional value on his side, even if I don't think that means anything for a guy with what...6 Big East starts?

    Maybe if Thomas comes back and has a workout that shows off better agility than he showed in college then sure, but there's alot in his way of going in the first round. Teams don't exactly fall over themselves for WRs in the first either...Bryant and Crabtree are two ridiculously talented WRs and 10 might be the highest spot either goes in their drafts.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    What's this on tape thing? Are we talking strictly Youtube highlights here? Cody was in a better league, at a more important position, has big time NFL size, has a better work ethic than headlines seem to make people think, was an elite run stopper in that better conference, played DE on Saban's 3 man line at times, sometimes dropped into coverage in Saban's D, and was used as a lead blocker in a goal line offensive formation. Not only that, but he contributed significantly on ST's with the two legendary blocked kicks against Tennessee. Dude was a beast in college, fat or not fat.

    Now he's down to 348. He's got 3 months until camp. He can be down to a pretty decent rookie (still flabby) 335-340. Dude's going to be a really good player in this league if he gets into shape, and I buy that he wants to do it by what he's done.

    Thomas isn't a first round WR. Maybe someone makes a reach, but if there's a 3rd and 4th WR drafted in the first it's Tate and Benn (given Bryant and Williams). His resume isn't as good as Cody's, he's not from a pro style offense, he doesn't run crisp routes, his routes aren't varied, he's not all that quick like Bryant, Tate, Williams, and Benn are "on tape," and he just broke his foot. Yes, he has strengths and the strengths are very valuable. He's got a good frame, he finds the ball in the air and goes up and gets it, he's a high character guy, and he learned alot from Calvin Johnson. Sure, guy can definitely be eased into our offense, but I'd rather "ease in" a DL with elite potential over WR with the same anyday.

    Also, there are tons of fat NT at one point or another. They're naturally very large men, that will happen if they don't watch their weight. Cody didn't even know how to watch his weight until recently in life. Every single big DT in this league has been fat at one point or another. Cody happens to be fat right now. Our current NT was a "fat DT who'd always be fat" when we got him. That's a great mentor, this is a great environment, and this is the perfect D for his size and athleticism.

    All that's moot because it's more likely he doesn't make it to 29 than he actually makes it to the 2nd round. Thomas still wouldn't be BPA at 29, but he'd be alot closer. Carlos Dunlap would be nice if he was there at 29, but I'd take Cody over him probably.
    I still don't see the need for a NT to play behind Jenkins and Pouha. Especially since hes not strong enough to play the nose in the NFL, I've also heard rumors hes wouldn't even be smart enough to learn complex defensive schemes like the one Rex has. We can address other positions at that point. Cody is just not a good fit for the Jets, hes not going to play at DE and would be fifth on the depth chart if we bring back Douglas. In many games we've only dressed 4 DL. Our D-Line as of now are Pouha/Devito at RDE Jenkins/Pouha at NT and Ellis at LDE. If we go DL I think its going to be on the 3rd day of the draft. The first two days were probably going to go CB and WR. We still haven't replaced Strickland and Stuckey.
    Last edited by raysdaone; 04-04-2010 at 02:41 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by raysdaone View Post
    I still don't see the need for a NT to play behind Jenkins and Pouha. Especially since hes not strong enough to play the nose in the NFL, I've also heard rumors hes wouldn't even be smart enough to learn complex defensive schemes like the one Rex has. We can address other positions at that point. Cody is just not a good fit for the Jets, hes not going to play at DE and would be fifth on the depth chart if we bring back Douglas. In many games we've only dressed 4 DL. Our D-Line as of now are Pouha/Devito at RDE Jenkins/Pouha at NT and Ellis at LDE. If we go DL I think its going to be on the 3rd day of the draft. The first two days were probably going to go CB and WR. We still haven't replaced Strickland and Stuckey.
    Who's Pouha in the grand scheme of things? He's not replacing Jenkins in the future. He's spent more time injured in his career than not injured.

    And why isn't Cody strong enough to play NT in the pros again? Game tape? On top of that, he's dumb too? Where'd this one come from? Are you just making things up at this point? Saban isn't an easy or simple coach to play for here...and the fact that he felt comfortable using Cody like he did says the exact opposite about Cody than what you're telling me.

    Also, Thomas and Hughes would be in the exact situation...Thomas isn't seeing the ball over Edwards, Cotchery, Keller, Leon, LT, and Greene on offense...Hughes isn't seeing the field over the 4 starting LBers, Gholston, and Westerman unless he absolutely blows people away. Same for DBs, where we have quite a few.

    We can do whatever we want on draft day...getting a guy we can build the post-Jenkins/Ellis DL around would be huge. Iunno why you wouldn't go to the source when fixing a problem...a defense and an offense is built on their lines and improving the lines improves every facet of it. I'd much rather have Cody at 29 than pretty much any other player we can get at 29, if we can actually get him at 29. His resume certainly sh*ts on most of the other options.

    Also, Strickland and Stuckey weren't such major pieces that they had to be replaced immediately...Not that we didn't trade Stuckey for a bigger, better WR or anything...or replace our mediocre, old #2 corner with a much higher upside, younger CB (allowing Lowery to be moved to the slot WR in his 3rd year)...It's not as if we didn't upgrade the depth at both of those guys positions in some way. WR and CB are just as much wants as they are needs...same for my DL want, but at least DL is DL.

    Also, considering that we have guys like DeVito, Pito, and Pouha, why would I want another future backup/late round pick type DL? If I'm not going to take one early I barely have the urge to take one at all.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-04-2010 at 03:06 PM.

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