Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: #29: Who can and can't you live with.

  1. #1
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    the 80s
    Posts
    8,084
    Post Thanks / Like

    #29: Who can and can't you live with.

    I know I know, I trust whatever Tanny and his crew decide. they've proven me wrong before (sanchez)

    But for sake of discussion, gimme your list of ppl you could live with and those you couldn't. You don't have to want everyone on your can list, just those you could tolerate (within reason of being available)


    I could live with...

    Terrence Cody - If MGMT decides he's worth it, then fine.
    Jerry Hughes - We don't need him, but we do. not enough production from that position
    Taylor Mays - he's got flaws, but again, if we take him it's cause FO thinks they know how to use him
    Maurkice Pouncey - Not only could i live with this, i would love it. O-line glory.
    Damian Williams - I would be flabbergasted that we spent #29 on him, but he's USC money, and Sanchez-bondable. I would accept it.
    J. Odrick - If he checks out with Rex, then sign me up. We have the need.
    Sergio Kindle - it's a stretch of course, but i'd be all over it.
    L. Houston - consensus 2nd rounder, but might be seen as the answer to a problem that won't be there 32 picks later.

    I can't stand the thought of..

    Ryan Matthews - just no need. at all.
    Nate Allen - he's underrated, but not that underrated. There's reaching, and then there's stupid.
    Brian Price - just don't like this guy in our system. really don't.
    Everson Griffen - not sold on him being anything more than just "a guy" out there.
    Carlos Dunlop - with so much talent in the draft, why settle for a guy who's lack of committment is legendary
    Demaryius Thomas - Teams will continue to reach on not-NFL ready WRs. i hope my team doesn't
    D. McCourty - too much to spend, not the hugest need. If it was K. Wilson, then sure, but he's not Wilson.
    G. Tate. - Cotchery says hi... and does everything better. thats not the WR we need to spending #1 on.
    Last edited by Paradis; 04-04-2010 at 12:39 PM.

  2. #2
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    the 80s
    Posts
    8,084
    Post Thanks / Like
    oh c'mon. no one wants to list their ya's and no's.. sheesh

  3. #3
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,813
    Post Thanks / Like
    no to mays. yes to tate. tate would make the offense rock. he really would.

  4. #4
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    I don't think there's anyone I would hate to pick, but I'd feel like we were reaching if we grabbed Odrick, Tate, Thomas, Price (doesn't even fit the D), Houston (I keep hearing E. Hood with him, but meh), or Tate.

    I also would see the drafting of Pouncey as the first step in saying bye to Mangold, which kinda sucks.

  5. #5
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    21,176
    Post Thanks / Like
    I would remove Houston from your live with list and I would add Tate and Thomas to the live with list.

  6. #6
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    the 80s
    Posts
    8,084
    Post Thanks / Like
    i don't know about Pouncey signaling hte end of mangold. he's a center but is fine to play RT/RG

  7. #7
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    i don't know about Pouncey signaling hte end of mangold. he's a center but is fine to play RT/RG
    Depends on how he handles RT then...because I doubt he's moving Moore since Mangold's the one with the contract extension coming up.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,489
    Post Thanks / Like
    I can't deal with Mays or any WR for that matter.

    I can deal with pretty much anyone else not named Dunlap, Griffen or Matthews.

  9. #9
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    21,176
    Post Thanks / Like
    Near ZERO chance that Mangold goes anywhere anytime soon. He would have to play guard to take over from Faneca or RT for Woody I would guess.

  10. #10
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,099
    Post Thanks / Like
    While I will live with whoever they pick, obviously, I would be utterly disappointed if they selected the following:

    Cody (I've gone on record many times against him - Sporting News has him rated as a 7th rounder)

    Price (doesn't fit our D - plus Sporting News said he was worse than Cody)

    D. Thomas (don't know too many WRs that were more productive in the pros than they were in college and this guy didn't have a ton of production)

    D. Williams (I understand that he was excellent with Sanchez at USC but all of those USC WRs have been terrible lately).

    Would love it if it were (in no particular order):

    Dan Williams - even though there is absolutely no way he is there.
    McCourty
    Tate
    E. Thomas
    Kindle
    Mathews
    even Patrick Robinson.

    I am completely torn on Mays. His athletism is difficult to ignore but just like Gholston and Maybin (last year), this looks like a pick that a year from now we all will go "It was so obvious that he would be a bust."

  11. #11
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Iunno about zero chance...Mawae hit FA...Brown from the Ravens hit FA...Bentley hit FA a few years ago and got replaced by guys like Jeff Faine and John Goodwin....

    Pcola - While I'm not fighting your stance on Cody, Sporting News is a very crappy draft source. Also, Williams blows Jarrett and Williams out of the water.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-05-2010 at 12:53 PM.

  12. #12
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    the 80s
    Posts
    8,084
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by pcola View Post
    While I will live with whoever they pick, obviously, I would be utterly disappointed if they selected the following:

    Cody (I've gone on record many times against him - Sporting News has him rated as a 7th rounder)

    Price (doesn't fit our D - plus Sporting News said he was worse than Cody)

    D. Thomas (don't know too many WRs that were more productive in the pros than they were in college and this guy didn't have a ton of production)

    D. Williams (I understand that he was excellent with Sanchez at USC but all of those USC WRs have been terrible lately).

    Would love it if it were (in no particular order):

    Dan Williams - even though there is absolutely no way he is there.
    McCourty
    Tate
    E. Thomas
    Kindle
    Mathews
    even Patrick Robinson.
    so pretty much polar opposite of me

  13. #13
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Would LOVE Demaryius Thomas I think he will be a dominant receiver in the NFL.

    Would hate, and might throw up a little if we select Taylor Mays

  14. #14
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    21,176
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Iunno about zero chance...Mawae hit FA...Brown from the Ravens hit FA...Bentley hit FA a few years ago and got replaced by guys like Jeff Faine and John Goodwin....

    Pcola - While I'm not fighting your stance on Cody, Sporting News is a very crappy draft source. Also, Williams blows Jarrett and Williams out of the water.
    Mawae was past his prime, Bentley was a super high end guy but Mangold is simply the best in the league right now. Let's put it this way, if the Jets did let him walk I'd be very upset indeed.

  15. #15
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Mawae was past his prime, Bentley was a super high end guy but Mangold is simply the best in the league right now. Let's put it this way, if the Jets did let him walk I'd be very upset indeed.
    Everyone would be...Mawae was 27 years old when we signed him in FA...both he and Bentley were considered the best C's in the league at the time they hit FA.

    It would really, really suck if we let Mangold go but star centers have hit FA in their primes before, and have been subsequently been replaced fairly easily by their former teams.

  16. #16
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,713
    Post Thanks / Like
    If SportingNews said that Price was worse than Cody then I really wouldn't pay much attention to that anymore. Cody has zero strength and Price has some, but his quickness is amazing. And if you think that Price wouldn't fit in our system means that you think we are still running the NE/2 gapping 3-4. Which we arent'... Price would fit fine. Very similar to Douglas in terms of just busting his ass trying to get up field.


    Disappointed IF:

    Cody - Awful... Despite size he has zero strength and was tossed around in the Senior Bowl

    Kindle - Just doesn't have the strength or willingness to get his nose dirty enough. I could see a scenario where he becomes an OK NFL player, but I see no pro bowl potential and I don't wnat that with any first round pick.

    Odrick - Just nothing in terms of next level strength. I wouldnt' even draft Odrick in the 2nd round if he fell there. Doesn't shed blocks easily and there isn't much to like outside of the NFL body. Guy is a guaranteed bust.

    Houston - I would throw up to be honest in the first. In the 2nd round I would be annoyed but not horrified. He doesn't have the strength needed, and his excellent mobility is kind of useless because he doesn't have unbelievable quickness in teh short area like someone ala Price.

    Carlos Dunlap - Just doesn't have it.. No willingness to get his nose dirty. He may show up for a game or two, but that's as far as it goes for him.

    Pouncey - May even become a pro bowl center or interior lineman but he's not an unbelievable run blocker and that is what you want out of an interior lineman this high. With our team, I have no interest in Pouncey. he's someone I like, just not for this team.

    McCourty - Doesn't play as fast as his timed speed and I wouldn't like him in the first. Perhaps the 2nd, but certainly not the first. Not as good in coverage as Kyle Wilson or Patrick R.



    Watching some games tonight where I focus completely on Griffen and based on the little I seen so far, I'm a huge fan. Guy has great strength and very good speed. Considering his size, it's that much better. Also kind of a fan of Ricky Sapp although his production is just not there at the college level.





    My Fantasy land pick is hoping that NT Dan Williams falls to us... There is an outside chance at it happening, but doubtful. He's great and would be perfect towards us stopping the run.


    Picks I would be happy with:

    Jerry Hughes - GREAT athleticism. Active player and finds ways to get around the ball. Would be a very good player in this league and I could see Pro bowls in his future.

    Golden Tate - Nothing like Percy Harvin as some people try to suggest(other than body type) but he is very much like Steve Smith in style. Extremely strong hands and physical body. Doesn't operate in a phone booth like Harvin and is better suited to be on the outside like Steve Smith. If you are looking for a slot guy strictly, Golden Tate is not your man.

    Taylor Mays - I know he's a liability in pass coverage, but the guy just hits like a freight train and that is important in this sport...

    Earl Thomas - Don't think he falls, but the guy gets pass coverage. He's also a very willing tackler although he misses BADLY at times on some tackles. He loves getting his nose dirty though and he'll be a good pro player. Generally I just don't like taking safeties... They just don't impact the game as much as someone else in the front 7 on defense or the front 5 on offense. Just try watching a game with the intent on getting a read on a safety and you realize how little impact safeties have on a game. Thomas kind of breaks that mold, but generally that is the case and the reason safeties don't get paid a ton.

    Geno Atkins - Don't care where we take him (may be available in the 2nd) but the dude is going to be a player in this league. Touch undersized but he has GREAT strength at the point of attack

    Brian Price - Great first step and knows how to get on the shoulder of an offensive lineman. Can penetrate with the best of them. Good body and good enough strength to hold up vs doubles.

    Kyle Wilson - Not great hips ala Revis (nobody is like him) but he is physical and would work very well on the inside in our defense.

    Patrick Robinson - Guy can cover and is probably the best in that regard in terms of this draft.

    Bey Bey Thomas - Basically like a combo between Brandon Marshall, TO and Fitz. Excellent body control and was screwed by GT running that garbage misdirection option offense. Don't think he falls becuase the guy is just that damn good. Has far more upside than Bryant and I would guess that he becomes a better player than Bryant.

  17. #17
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    And if you think that Price wouldn't fit in our system means that you think we are still running the NE/2 gapping 3-4
    We were never running that...Ellis is not your traditional NE/2 gap DE...if you look at our DL before Rex we had a DL that modeld the Ravens more than the Pats...Ellis -> Pryce...Jenkins -> Ngata...Coleman/Douglas -> Gregg.

    I realize I should have Gregg with Jenkins because they both play NT, but the comparison I was hoping to make runs deeper than that. Jenkins, like Ngata, is the big man the DL revolves around. Gregg/Coleman/Douglas are the solid, does-their-job types the D likes.

    So...myth.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-05-2010 at 01:58 PM.

  18. #18
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,713
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    We were never running that...Ellis is not your traditional NE/2 gap DE...if you look at our DL before Rex we had a DL that modeld the Ravens more than the Pats...Ellis -> Pryce...Jenkins -> Ngata...Coleman/Douglas -> Gregg.

    I realize I should have Gregg with Jenkins because they both play NT, but the comparison I was hoping to make runs deeper than that. Jenkins, like Ngata, is the big man the DL revolves around. Gregg/Coleman/Douglas are the solid, does-their-job types the D likes.

    So...myth.
    We were absolutely running the NE, two gapping 3-4 under Mangini. For each year we did that. And now Cleveland is running the same thing. Download games if you want to see it again. It was Kenyon Coleman and Ellis as the 5s, Jenkins at the 0. The job is to stack and build the wall on the line of scrimmage with the linebackers and then to shed the block and make a play. We were horribly miscast in that system early on because Robertson couldn't hold the point of attack and neither could Vilma, in any way.

    We even played a good amount of two gapping during Herm/Cottrell years.

    Ellis doesn't necessarily fit that perfectly (personally I've alwasy liked him most in the 4-3 as a strong side end)


    Absolutely agree that Jenkins is very similar to Ngata in how Rex views them. It's been my feeling that we need someone ala Kelly Gregg in that we need an active, nose tackle type who can get off blocks and get around the ball. That's the reason I think Dan Williams would be perfect although he's not going to fall.

    Now that is not Price at all, but Price would be used in our system as Marques Douglas was used this past year. Douglas has been and always will be a one gapping type of player who wants to make tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Price does an excellent job at getting through blocks and behind the LOS. He's especially good at pass rushing.

  19. #19
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan1983 View Post
    We were absolutely running the NE, two gapping 3-4 under Mangini. For each year we did that. And now Cleveland is running the same thing. Download games if you want to see it again. It was Kenyon Coleman and Ellis as the 5s, Jenkins at the 0. The job is to stack and build the wall on the line of scrimmage with the linebackers and then to shed the block and make a play. We were horribly miscast in that system early on because Robertson couldn't hold the point of attack and neither could Vilma, in any way.

    We even played a good amount of two gapping during Herm/Cottrell years.

    Ellis doesn't necessarily fit that perfectly (personally I've alwasy liked him most in the 4-3 as a strong side end)


    Absolutely agree that Jenkins is very similar to Ngata in how Rex views them. It's been my feeling that we need someone ala Kelly Gregg in that we need an active, nose tackle type who can get off blocks and get around the ball. That's the reason I think Dan Williams would be perfect although he's not going to fall.

    Now that is not Price at all, but Price would be used in our system as Marques Douglas was used this past year. Douglas has been and always will be a one gapping type of player who wants to make tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Price does an excellent job at getting through blocks and behind the LOS. He's especially good at pass rushing.
    No seriously...we really weren't.

    1. Because generally speaking this board tends to exaggerate what the NE/2-gap 3-4 is and does because the coach who tried to implement the 3-4 is now extremely unpopular.

    and

    2. The influences from the Steelers and Ravens Ds were obvious. The one down DL stuff...the Jenkins dropping into a zone we'd do...the flex from 3 down linemen to 4 down linemen...

    Mangini's D was extremely varied here...it just went unnoticed because we didn't win a Super Bowl under him leaving him to be the current most hated coach in Jets history.

    Also, you're fooling yourself if you think this current D isn't built around the DL's ability to occupy and beat blockers....we 2 gap to this day...it's come to have some kind of weird stigma on this board but it's common for 3-4 teams to both 2 gap and 1 gap (in certain packages)....the whole point of the 3-4 is the D's flexibility.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-05-2010 at 02:15 PM.

  20. #20
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,099
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Iunno about zero chance...Mawae hit FA...Brown from the Ravens hit FA...Bentley hit FA a few years ago and got replaced by guys like Jeff Faine and John Goodwin....

    Pcola - While I'm not fighting your stance on Cody, Sporting News is a very crappy draft source. Also, Williams blows Jarrett and Williams out of the water.
    You are right about that. But its almost like there is a bad aftertaste in your mouth. I could see us moving up in the second maybe for him and I would like it because he wouldn't be the guy everyone would be focusing on as the first pick. I guess I'm as bad as everyone else who seems to think regardless of our spot at #29, we will come away with an elite talent. Maybe a bit delusional.

    My whole thing with Cody is he is a young man. Unless he gets on the biggest loser, as he ages, he is going to get much bigger. He has already shown a knack for disobeying his coaches when it comes to working out and getting fit.

    I have a ton of confidence in Rex, but if Nick Saben couldn't get this guy motivated, how is anybody else going to after he gets paid. If it was my signature on the check, I would be holding somebody personally accountable for his success or failure. Not too sure if any scout worth his salary would be willing to put their job on the line for him.

    That said, I can see many other players coming in and contributing right away despite the Jets being at or at least very close to Elite.

    Mathews is one. Look at Greene last year. We had TJ and Leon and many thought it was a wasted pick. Looking back, that pick won us two playoff games.

    I am not completely sold on LT getting a large handful of carries, and it remains to be seen what role Leon will have. Mathews gives us a great workhorse taht we could pound along with Greene (and in the case anyone gets injured, the guy can take an increased workload).

    Iupati and Pouncey could spell Faneca and Woody and also give the Jets a little bit of leverage when negotiating with Mangold and D'Brick. Not saying they will or even could replace them, but it would reduce the Jets desperation. Then the Jets have a replacement for Faneca next year.

    I tend to agree with your assessment of Odrick. He probably isn't the sexiest pick, but he just may be the replacement for Ellis.

    Either way, since Tanny has assumed the responsibilites for the draft, it has become more and more difficult to even narrow down the list of possibilities.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us