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Thread: Duke Vs Butler - National Championship Game thread

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    LOL. Not sure what you are basing this on other than your love for UNC and your dislike for Duke. John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins and Wesley Johnson would have been among the best players in the nation last year, just as they are this year. What you are conveniently forgetting is that many college players improve from year-to-year, so you can't just say that subtracting player X from a 2009 team means that the 2010 team is necessarily worse. Nolan Smith and Brian Zoubek are totally different players this year. In the course of a year (or, in Zoubek's case, a year-and-a-half) they developed from total scrubs to difference-makers. Their development alone makes this year's Duke team significantly better than last years. That '09 Nova team you like so much basically replaced their front court with Yarou, King and an improved Pena and brought back all of their backcourt stars (including their most important '09 player, Reynolds) and added Wayans. Those teams are very comparable, yet one made it to the final four and the other got shellacked by a team that got shellacked by Baylor, which in turn lost to 2010 Duke.

    You could just as easily make the case that the '09 field was weaker (e.g. Kentucky '10 and UNC '09 are very comparable in terms of overall talent, but the former couldn't even make it to the final 4 in this year's "strong" field and UNC '09 coasted to the title against last year's "weak" field). I'm not willing to take the argument that far, but suffice it to say that both the '09 and '10 fields were pretty weak. That's what happens when the talent pool gets watered down by so many early NBA departures.
    UK had a supremely talent team, a team that would be supremely talented in any era BUT they were freshman dominated. If that was a team of mostly sophs or juniors they could have competed w/ UNC '09 but they were freshman teetering all year playing close games against bad teams like Carolina.

    Sure those guys would be good players in any year but did that mean they were on great teams? This was the weakest field ever, it's not even close. Compare the 2 title teams to title game teams of the past decade and let me know what you find.

    Carolina '10 almost beat UK '10, Carolina '09 would have smoked UK by at least 15-20 pts. They had talent but they also had a new coach and almost a completely new team.

    LSU '09, who Carolina faced in the SECOND ROUND, could have competed w/ duke or Butler this year. After that Carolina smoked a GOOD gonzaga team in the Sweet 16 and crushed an OU team that was top 5 for most of the year and only lost games when Blake Griffin was hurt.

    The '09 'Nova team was MUCH better than '10 and in '09 Nova was a 3 seed vs. being a 2 seed this year. The talent level isn't close, there wasn't a tam in the FF as good as any of the 4 teams in the FF last year- I would say as good as any of the elite 8 teams from last year. '09 pitt, '09 OU, '09 UL would have thrashed this years FF teams.


    Baylor "lost" to duke thanks to that blown call.

    Weakest field ever and it's not even close.

    I agree the '09 field wasn't the strongest either but it was much stronger than '10. What we saw the other night was mediocrity, we saw greatness a year ago.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    UK had a supremely talent team, a team that would be supremely talented in any era BUT they were freshman dominated. If that was a team of mostly sophs or juniors they could have competed w/ UNC '09 but they were freshman teetering all year playing close games against bad teams like Carolina.

    Sure those guys would be good players in any year but did that mean they were on great teams? This was the weakest field ever, it's not even close. Compare the 2 title teams to title game teams of the past decade and let me know what you find.

    Carolina '10 almost beat UK '10, Carolina '09 would have smoked UK by at least 15-20 pts. They had talent but they also had a new coach and almost a completely new team.

    LSU '09, who Carolina faced in the SECOND ROUND, could have competed w/ duke or Butler this year. After that Carolina smoked a GOOD gonzaga team in the Sweet 16 and crushed an OU team that was top 5 for most of the year and only lost games when Blake Griffin was hurt.

    The '09 'Nova team was MUCH better than '10 and in '09 Nova was a 3 seed vs. being a 2 seed this year. The talent level isn't close, there wasn't a tam in the FF as good as any of the 4 teams in the FF last year- I would say as good as any of the elite 8 teams from last year. '09 pitt, '09 OU, '09 UL would have thrashed this years FF teams.


    Baylor "lost" to duke thanks to that blown call.

    Weakest field ever and it's not even close.

    I agree the '09 field wasn't the strongest either but it was much stronger than '10. What we saw the other night was mediocrity, we saw greatness a year ago.
    Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this because I think, for example, that Final 4 blowout victim WVU '10 is at least the equal of title game participant MSU '09 and that your views on this appear to be part of an exercise to soften the blow of a Duke title right on the heels (no pun intended) of a UNC one. I remember being pretty irked myself when UNC won in 1993 after Duke won in 1992.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this because I think, for example, that Final 4 blowout victim WVU '10 is at least the equal of title game participant MSU '09 and that your views on this appear to be part of an exercise to soften the blow of a Duke title right on the heels (no pun intended) of a UNC one. I remember being pretty irked myself when UNC won in 1993 after Duke won in 1992.
    WVU '10 is nowhere bear MSU '09 especially w/o their starting PG.


    At least in 1993 the Heels were a clear 1 seed and beat some great teams en route to the title- duke didn't do that this year. '93 UNC was not as good as '92 duke but alot closer to '92 duke than '10 duke is to '09 UNC.

    Obviously I am biased and frustrated duke won, congrats on the win and enjoy it.

  4. #104
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    Butler Coach Brad Stevens Agrees To New 12-Year Contract

    INDIANAPOLIS, IND. -- Butler University, coming off the most successful men’s basketball season in school history, has rewarded head basketball coach Brad Stevens with a new contract. The 12-year deal signed by Stevens extends the coach’s contract through the 2021-22 season.

    “We are extremely pleased and excited to announce that we’ve reached a new long-term agreement with Brad, and that he will continue to lead the Butler University men’s basketball program,” stated Butler Director of Athletics Barry Collier.
    “Brad has demonstrated that he’s the right fit for Butler University, and that he embraces and teaches The Butler Way. Our program has grown under his leadership, and we’re excited about our future under his direction.”

    Stevens, 33, completed his third season at Butler in the championship game of 2010 NCAA Tournament on Monday (April 5). The national runner-up Bulldogs finished the season with a school-record 33 wins, against just five setbacks, and became the first school in Horizon League history to reach the NCAA Final Four. Butler’s march to the West Regional championship in the NCAA Tournament included victories over top-seeded Syracuse, 63-59, and second-seeded Kansas State, 63-56. Butler defeated Michigan State, 52-50, in the national semifinals.

    “(My wife) Tracy and I are thrilled and very thankful for the opportunity to continue to play a role for Butler University,” stated Stevens. “We are already looking forward to the 2010-11 season.”

    The Bulldogs, who won Horizon League regular season and tournament championships, were the only unbeaten (18-0) conference champion in the nation this season. Stevens guided Butler to a 25-game winning streak, the nation’s longest, and to an unbeaten record in 2010 prior to the national championship game. Butler was ranked in the “Top 25” of the ESPN/USA Today national poll every week during the season and finished No. 2 in the final coaches’ poll.

    Stevens was named Horizon League Coach of the Year for the second straight year, and he was named NABC All-District 12 Coach. He’s won more games (89) in three seasons than any other coach in NCAA Division I history, and he owns the No. 1 (33 in 2009-10) and No. 2 (30 in 2007-08) single season win totals in Butler men’s basketball history. He’s the only coach in the history of the Horizon League to record 30 wins in a season, and he’s done it twice! Only four coaches in NCAA history own a better winning percentage after three seasons than Stevens’ 89-15 (.856) mark.

    http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m...ases/040810aaa

    Stevie Wonder saw this coming. Great for Butler!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    WVU '10 is nowhere bear MSU '09 especially w/o their starting PG.


    At least in 1993 the Heels were a clear 1 seed and beat some great teams en route to the title- duke didn't do that this year. '93 UNC was not as good as '92 duke but alot closer to '92 duke than '10 duke is to '09 UNC.

    Obviously I am biased and frustrated duke won, congrats on the win and enjoy it.
    Thanks. No doubt both UNC '93 and '09 were better teams than '10 Duke. I think there's even a chance that both UNC and Duke next year will be better than '10 Duke. Should be an interesting season.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    Thanks. No doubt both UNC '93 and '09 were better teams than '10 Duke. I think there's even a chance that both UNC and Duke next year will be better than '10 Duke. Should be an interesting season.
    Theirs definitely that possibility. Depends on if Singler returns, UNC has the #1 recruit in the Nation coming along with a top class, as does Duke. They will both start the season ranked in the top 10, the ACC will definitely be more competitive.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
    Theirs definitely that possibility. Depends on if Singler returns, UNC has the #1 recruit in the Nation coming along with a top class, as does Duke. They will both start the season ranked in the top 10, the ACC will definitely be more competitive.
    Agreed. UNC will never stay down long because of their excellent recruiting. However, now that Duke has finally realized that they can't compete with UNC's ability to recruit multiple McDonald's all-Americans and have started to think outside the box, e.g. by bringing in a top transfer in Curry and a top Juco player in Felix (the first ever Duke juco recruit), my hope is that the ACC generally, and UNC and Duke in particular, will be competitive for years to come.

  8. #108
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    If Singler returns duke will likely be preseason #1. They bring in Kyrie irving and Seth Curry is eligible after transferring last year so the backcourt looks to be in good shape. Up front they lost size and fouls w/ Thomas and Zoubek graduating.

    Carolina can definitely rebound and be a title contender. people forget Carolina did beat MSU and OSU and played UK tough at UK before all the injuries started hitting. They still should have been better even w/ the injuries but there is talent there. The biggest weakness was turning it over and outside shooting, they get shooters in Branes and Bullock and a great distributor in Marshall. Drew grew up in the NIT, is he transferring and if not can he build upon that run? Is Ed Davis returning? He was basically a lock to leave but the wrist hasn't healed as quickly as they thought and that could help him go back to Carolina if he isn't expected to go as high as was once thought.

    We'll see, it should be really fun and now w/ duke back to being a title contender this rivalry should be turned up another notch or two. Post Dean duke owend Carolina, since the 2nd game of '05 through '09 Carolina owned duke and this year duke owend the heels again, it should be fun seeing both as big time teams in the same year again for probably the first time since 2005.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    Agreed. UNC will never stay down long because of their excellent recruiting. However, now that Duke has finally realized that they can't compete with UNC's ability to recruit multiple McDonald's all-Americans and have started to think outside the box, e.g. by bringing in a top transfer in Curry and a top Juco player in Felix (the first ever Duke juco recruit), my hope is that the ACC generally, and UNC and Duke in particular, will be competitive for years to come.
    The ACC has not been good since expansion, I would love to see it get back to where it always was before expansion and that was by far the best conf in the Nation.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    If Singler returns duke will likely be preseason #1. They bring in Kyrie irving and Seth Curry is eligible after transferring last year so the backcourt looks to be in good shape. Up front they lost size and fouls w/ Thomas and Zoubek graduating.

    Carolina can definitely rebound and be a title contender. people forget Carolina did beat MSU and OSU and played UK tough at UK before all the injuries started hitting. They still should have been better even w/ the injuries but there is talent there. The biggest weakness was turning it over and outside shooting, they get shooters in Branes and Bullock and a great distributor in Marshall. Drew grew up in the NIT, is he transferring and if not can he build upon that run? Is Ed Davis returning? He was basically a lock to leave but the wrist hasn't healed as quickly as they thought and that could help him go back to Carolina if he isn't expected to go as high as was once thought.

    We'll see, it should be really fun and now w/ duke back to being a title contender this rivalry should be turned up another notch or two. Post Dean duke owend Carolina, since the 2nd game of '05 through '09 Carolina owned duke and this year duke owend the heels again, it should be fun seeing both as big time teams in the same year again for probably the first time since 2005.
    Yes, I'm looking forward to a renewed Duke/UNC rivalry as well. As much as I "love to hate" UNC, things are so much more fun when Duke and UNC both have strong teams.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    If Singler returns duke will likely be preseason #1. They bring in Kyrie irving and Seth Curry is eligible after transferring last year so the backcourt looks to be in good shape. Up front they lost size and fouls w/ Thomas and Zoubek graduating.
    I'm hoping that Kelly and Hairston will help pick up some of the frontcourt slack, but maybe that's just wishful thinking. I don't know much about Hairston and Kelly has looked like a soft finesse player even on his best days (of which there weren't many this year).

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Butler Coach Brad Stevens Agrees To New 12-Year Contract

    INDIANAPOLIS, IND. -- Butler University, coming off the most successful men’s basketball season in school history, has rewarded head basketball coach Brad Stevens with a new contract. The 12-year deal signed by Stevens extends the coach’s contract through the 2021-22 season.

    “We are extremely pleased and excited to announce that we’ve reached a new long-term agreement with Brad, and that he will continue to lead the Butler University men’s basketball program,” stated Butler Director of Athletics Barry Collier.
    “Brad has demonstrated that he’s the right fit for Butler University, and that he embraces and teaches The Butler Way. Our program has grown under his leadership, and we’re excited about our future under his direction.”

    Stevens, 33, completed his third season at Butler in the championship game of 2010 NCAA Tournament on Monday (April 5). The national runner-up Bulldogs finished the season with a school-record 33 wins, against just five setbacks, and became the first school in Horizon League history to reach the NCAA Final Four. Butler’s march to the West Regional championship in the NCAA Tournament included victories over top-seeded Syracuse, 63-59, and second-seeded Kansas State, 63-56. Butler defeated Michigan State, 52-50, in the national semifinals.

    “(My wife) Tracy and I are thrilled and very thankful for the opportunity to continue to play a role for Butler University,” stated Stevens. “We are already looking forward to the 2010-11 season.”

    The Bulldogs, who won Horizon League regular season and tournament championships, were the only unbeaten (18-0) conference champion in the nation this season. Stevens guided Butler to a 25-game winning streak, the nation’s longest, and to an unbeaten record in 2010 prior to the national championship game. Butler was ranked in the “Top 25” of the ESPN/USA Today national poll every week during the season and finished No. 2 in the final coaches’ poll.

    Stevens was named Horizon League Coach of the Year for the second straight year, and he was named NABC All-District 12 Coach. He’s won more games (89) in three seasons than any other coach in NCAA Division I history, and he owns the No. 1 (33 in 2009-10) and No. 2 (30 in 2007-08) single season win totals in Butler men’s basketball history. He’s the only coach in the history of the Horizon League to record 30 wins in a season, and he’s done it twice! Only four coaches in NCAA history own a better winning percentage after three seasons than Stevens’ 89-15 (.856) mark.

    http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m...ases/040810aaa

    Stevie Wonder saw this coming. Great for Butler!

    I'd be shocked if he's with Butler in 3 years

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