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Thread: What if the Pats landed...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by intothegreen View Post
    Except they still wont be able to stop anyone on D.
    Why do Jet fans keep saying that as if it were true. I grant you that the Pats D was not on the Jets level, but they DID finish 6th in scoring D (IIRC) and 11th in total D. That's not a dominant D, but STILL better than most of the rest of the league.

    The fact is that ALL D's are behind the offenses at this point. It used to be that a 4000 yd season for a QB was a once in a decade event.....and in 2009 there were four or five guys with 4000+ seasons, The Polian rules and interpretations have emasculated defenses (IMHO), and its going to take a while, or some new rules/interpretations for the Defenses to catch up.

    So while even Pats fans would admit that their D has has holes, so does EVERY ONE else.....including the Jets Go find a web site of a team that isn't looking to upgrade their pass rush.

    IMHO the Pats are in good position, in the deepest draft in a decade. What they will do, is anyones guess. As a loyal Pats fan, who has followed the Pats draft closely during BB's tenure, I can safely say that the only thing we can predict, is that what we THINK will happen....usually won't happen. I'm thrilled with Sebastian Volmer, but I didn't see his name mentioned once associated with the Pats (or anyone else for that matter) in the run up to last year's draft.

    Common wisdom would have the Pats picking the best OLB pass rusher prospect or the best 3-4 DE available with their first 2 picks. After that the best WR/TE (but not both) and then go with BPA after that.

    1. (22) - Sergio Kindle - OLB - Texas
    2 (44) - Jahvid Best - RB - California
    2 (47) - Rob Gronkowski - TE - Arizona
    2 (53) - Lamarr Houston DT/DE - Texas
    4 (119) - Andre Roberts - WR - The Citadel
    6 (190) - Joe Webb - WR - Alabama-Birmingham
    6 (205) - Mike Kafka - QB - Northwestern
    7 (229) - Kade Weston - DT/NT - Georgia
    7 (231) - Charlie Tanner - OG - Texas
    7 (247) - Aaron Berry - CB - Pittsburgh
    7 (248) - Fendi Onobun - TE - Houston
    7 (250) - Arthur Moats - OLB - James Madision

    This is what Beerfish picked for the Pats in your mock. It has several picks I love and some I wouldn't take, but all in all it was good job.

    I would most disagree with RB and TE picks that high. I just can't see it. Maybe if Mathews was there, but not for Best. Corey Wooten is the 2nd round DE that I was looking at. I'm not familiar with Houston.

    I thought the Andre Roberts,. Mike Kafka, and Arthur Moats picks were excellent value picks, and very typical of the guys BB goes after late. (I'm not familiar with Onobun, Berry, tanner, and Web

    I can see us moving up if Morgan slides a bit. BB still values an elite DE prospect over a good OLB prospect. Kindle is good, and I'll be happy to get him, but he's not an elite prospect. Morgan has a better shot at being "Richard Seymour" than Kindle has of being "Willie McGinest"

    Bottom line: I would hope the Pats come away with 4 guys who can contribute right away in the rotation in 2010 and start in 2011. I'm also hoping that they trade at least 2 of those picks into 2011 or use them to move up to get specific players.

    I DO NOT want to see them trade down to accumulate even more picks in this draft. IMHO there is room on the roster for about 5-6 rookies. I'd hate to see them pick a lot of guys who have no chance of making the Pats, even though they might be good enough to play in the NFL (like in 2007)

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Dez Bryant would be like a dirty bomb showing up at Pats HQ. That would be an extremely risky pick and great news for Jets fans.

    cj spiller scares me.
    I can't see that happening. He's all the risks that Randy was coming out, but not nearly a dominant. He doesn't have top end speed to go along with the big body. He could end being a very good pro, but not another Randy Moss. More like another potential Andre Johnson (not that that's a bad thing)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by patsfanken View Post

    I can see us moving up if Morgan slides a bit. BB still values an elite DE prospect over a good OLB prospect. Kindle is good, and I'll be happy to get him, but he's not an elite prospect. Morgan has a better shot at being "Richard Seymour" than Kindle has of being "Willie McGinest"


    Bottom line: I would hope the Pats come away with 4 guys who can contribute right away in the rotation in 2010 and start in 2011. I'm also hoping that they trade at least 2 of those picks into 2011 or use them to move up to get specific players.

    I DO NOT want to see them trade down to accumulate even more picks in this draft. IMHO there is room on the roster for about 5-6 rookies. I'd hate to see them pick a lot of guys who have no chance of making the Pats, even though they might be good enough to play in the NFL (like in 2007)
    I don't think Morgan is a fit for 3-4DE at all... no? If anything he can be a 3-4OLB, but I don't think he is a good fit at all there either. On my draft board he is strictly a 4-3 DE. Unless you guys are switching to a 4-3 or you view the situation differently. Just my two cents, of course I hope I am right but you guys still draft him lol

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by patsfanken View Post

    I would most disagree with RB and TE picks that high. I just can't see it. Maybe if Mathews was there, but not for Best. Corey Wooten is the 2nd round DE that I was looking at. I'm not familiar with Houston.

    I thought the Andre Roberts,. Mike Kafka, and Arthur Moats picks were excellent value picks, and very typical of the guys BB goes after late. (I'm not familiar with Onobun, Berry, tanner, and Web

    I can see us moving up if Morgan slides a bit. BB still values an elite DE prospect over a good OLB prospect. Kindle is good, and I'll be happy to get him, but he's not an elite prospect. Morgan has a better shot at being "Richard Seymour" than Kindle has of being "Willie McGinest"
    Morgan went 12 in our draft so they would have to move up a fair bit to get him in this sample draft.

    Re a few other of your comments. I thought Best was pretty good value at 44. The one area the Pats have gone cheap on (not money but talent wise) in my mind is RB. I know they are a pass 1st team and a guy like Faulk has been good over the years but their RB's are not to be feared at all. Add a back that can be a big play guy and the Pats get much scarier looking at them from a Jets point of view.

    A bit of back ground on some of the other guys you asked about.

    Lamarr Houston: 6'3" - 305 Had a massive combine and looks like a good DE prospect in a 3/4

    Onobun is a TE project. Former basketball player. Fantastic measureables but raw.

    Charlie Tanner: 6'4" - 305 Has a great pro day, pretty good value for a 7th rounder.

    Aaron Berry - Had a knee injury that pushed him down but ran 4.3-4.4 at his pro day.

    Joe Webb - former QB converting to a WR supposedly rising up the boards fast. Looked great at the senior bowl they say.

    One thing is for sure. The Pats are going to get some damn good players with their 1st four picks. This is the ideal year to have those 2nd rounders and they will get 3 really good players in the 2nd round.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Extremely risky? For the Pats? In what way?
    Dez Bryant has to share a locker room with Randy Moss, it would be fireworks in that place.

    Moss at least ran a 4.3 coming out, Bryant doesn't have that speed. Bryant had a very similar workout to Mike Williams, Syracuse. Would the Pats be scared if Mike Williams showed up to the Jets?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by patsfanken View Post
    More like another potential Andre Johnson (not that that's a bad thing)
    maybe im remembering it wrong but Andre Johnson also ran like a 4.3 at the combine... Dez Bryant had an ok workout... not great. And it's the only thing he's done since September.

  7. #27
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    Spiller wouldn't bother me... He only has good upside. His best case scenario is a good back who maybe makes a pro bowl. He doesn't have the physicality at contact that is needed to be a great back in the NFL for a serious amount of time.


    Bryant would bother me. I like him a lot as a prospect (see him very much as a Keyshawn type) but think he has serious maturity issues. Watching his actions during that Georgia game this year with those Georgia players will mean him getting called for a lot of personal fouls.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Morgan went 12 in our draft so they would have to move up a fair bit to get him in this sample draft.

    Re a few other of your comments. I thought Best was pretty good value at 44. The one area the Pats have gone cheap on (not money but talent wise) in my mind is RB. I know they are a pass 1st team and a guy like Faulk has been good over the years but their RB's are not to be feared at all. Add a back that can be a big play guy and the Pats get much scarier looking at them from a Jets point of view.

    A bit of back ground on some of the other guys you asked about.

    Lamarr Houston: 6'3" - 305 Had a massive combine and looks like a good DE prospect in a 3/4

    Onobun is a TE project. Former basketball player. Fantastic measureables but raw.

    Charlie Tanner: 6'4" - 305 Has a great pro day, pretty good value for a 7th rounder.

    Aaron Berry - Had a knee injury that pushed him down but ran 4.3-4.4 at his pro day.

    Joe Webb - former QB converting to a WR supposedly rising up the boards fast. Looked great at the senior bowl they say.

    One thing is for sure. The Pats are going to get some damn good players with their 1st four picks. This is the ideal year to have those 2nd rounders and they will get 3 really good players in the 2nd round.
    Thanks for the info. Based on what you've written, those guys sound like great late round value. Traditionally the Pats have done pretty well at the bottom of the draft and with UDFA's

    Here is a list of Pats players who were acquired in the 6th or 7th rounds or were UDFAs. (BTW I finished this list I was surprised by its length and wonder if other teams have this many low picks and UDFA's or if this is unique?)

    *Brady (6th) *Pryor (6th) Ingram (6th)*TBC (7th) *Edelman (7th) Hoyer (UDFA) *Neal (UDFA) *Woods (UDFA) *Guyton (UDFA) *Bodden (UDFA) *Welker (UDFA) *McGowen (UDFA) Alexander (UDFA) LaVoir (UDFA) Connolly (UDFA) BJGE (UDFA) Arrington (UDFA)

    *Starter or has started multiple games and is in the regular rotation

    With the exception of Welker, Bodden, McGowen, and LaVoir, all the UDFA's were home grown. I also didn't add the PS Guys who haven't played or camp fodder FA's (though a lot of the guys on this list were guys I thought were camp fodder )

    Having those 3 extra 7th round comp picks means they won't have to compete with other teams for the high end UDFA's, making it more likely they'll find a gem.

    BOTTOM LINE - My expectations are that the Pats find in this draft 4 guys who can immediately make an impact (start or get into the regular rotation) in 2010, and who will start in 2011. That mean we have to hit on 3 of the 4 top picks and find one gem at the bottom

    Thanks again for the info.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    maybe im remembering it wrong but Andre Johnson also ran like a 4.3 at the combine... Dez Bryant had an ok workout... not great. And it's the only thing he's done since September.
    Dez Bryant is not like Andre Johnson. And you are correct, Andre ran in the 4.3s.

    Even watch Bryant on film, the guy very often has to make great catches with Db's around him. He's not necessarily running by anyone he wants. He's physical and he has great hands. He has horrible character and does incredibly stupid **** on the field.

    Bryant's upside is moreso Keyshawn. And that is a good thing. Could catch a hundred balls, and play a physical possession style of game. his character may hold him back though.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Moss at least ran a 4.3 coming out, Bryant doesn't have that speed. Bryant had a very similar workout to Mike Williams, Syracuse. Would the Pats be scared if Mike Williams showed up to the Jets?
    Your major flaw in this is equating a WORKOUT to performance on the field.....Larry Fitzgerald sure as hell did not run a 4.3 but is probably the scariest WR in the NFL...hell Anquan Boldin ran a damn 4.8 and he is a beast in the NFL

    Mike Williams= Dez Bryant??? GTFO

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Dez Bryant would be like a dirty bomb showing up at Pats HQ. That would be an extremely risky pick and great news for Jets fans.

    cj spiller scares me.
    The Pats gambled on Moss and it paid off big-time I could definitely see them taking Bryant especially with Welks tearing up his knee and Moss being gone after next year.

    Regardless of whether or not one likes Bryant as a prospect if he plays to his potential he will certainly be helped by having Tom Brady throw him the ball.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    maybe im remembering it wrong but Andre Johnson also ran like a 4.3 at the combine... Dez Bryant had an ok workout... not great. And it's the only thing he's done since September.
    ...And as we all know, that 40 time difference becomes very obvious on the football field. Johnson ran a 4.41. Bryant ran a 4.52. That difference of .11 is HUGE, and on the field 4.52 is pretty much a snail.

    The WR that Bryant reminds me of the most is Johnson. Johnson's a "better" guy off the field, but I really don't think Bryant is the evil being he's painted as.

    I can see us moving up if Morgan slides a bit. BB still values an elite DE prospect over a good OLB prospect. Kindle is good, and I'll be happy to get him, but he's not an elite prospect. Morgan has a better shot at being "Richard Seymour" than Kindle has of being "Willie McGinest"
    Morgan isn't a 3-4 DE prospect.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 04-11-2010 at 01:13 PM.

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