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Thread: And then we wonder why Detroit is a mess

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    And then we wonder why Detroit is a mess

    Every single car on this list is American.

    [URL="http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/109278/worst-made-cars-on-the-road?mod=family-home"]http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/109278/worst-made-cars-on-the-road?mod=family-home[/URL]

    [QUOTE][B]Worst-Made Cars on the Road[/B]
    by Hannah Elliott
    Friday, April 9, 2010
    provided by


    If you want to drive something dependable and long-lasting, steer clear of these vehicles.

    With a 22% improvement in sales last month, and despite the six-month, $4.3 billion loss it announced Wednesday, General Motors is likely to have its strongest spring and summer in years. Plus, the automaker had critically acclaimed new products at the recent New York Auto Show and the much-anticipated Chevrolet Volt is due out this fall.

    Year-over-year sales of GM's Cadillac division alone are up almost 76%; sales in the Buick, Chevrolet and GMC divisions were each up more than 40% for March. The industry as a whole was up 24.3%.

    Unfortunately just because GM's cars are selling well now doesn't mean they're the best bet for durability or value -- yet. It'll take awhile before GM's new direction shows up in tangible new products at the dealership.

    Four of the seven vehicles on our list of the worst-made cars on the road come from GM brands. And all of the cars on the list -- including Chrysler's Dodge Nitro and Jeep Wrangler -- are made by Detroit's Big Three. Only one car on the list is made by Ford Motor (NYSE: F).

    [B]Cadillac Escalade[/B]
    Segment: Luxury SUV
    CR Predicted Reliability Score: Fair
    CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in value
    CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in safety.
    CR Overall Score: 61 out of 100
    J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
    MSRP: $62,495

    [B]Chevrolet Aveo [/B]
    Segment: Compact Car
    CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
    CR Value Score: Not rated among the worst in overall value
    CR Safety Score: Not rated among the worst in overall safety.
    CR Overall Score: 36 out of 100
    J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
    MSRP: $11,965

    [B]Chevrolet Colorado [/B]
    Segment: Pickup Truck
    CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
    CR Value Score: Not rated among the worst in value
    CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in overall safety.
    CR Overall Score: 41 out of 100
    J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
    MSRP: $16,985

    [B]Dodge Nitro [/B]
    Segment: SUV
    CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
    CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value
    CR Safety Score: Not rated among the worst in safety.
    CR Overall Score: 33 out of 100
    J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
    MSRP: $22,335

    [B]Ford F-250 [/B]
    Segment: Pickup Truck
    CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
    CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value
    CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in overall safety.
    CR Overall Score: 37 out of 100
    J.D. Power Dependability Score: 3 out of 5 Power Circles
    MSRP: $28,020

    [B]Behind the Numbers[/B]

    To determine our list of the worst-made cars on the road, we started with the lowest-rated vehicles from four reliability and performance studies conducted this year. Those studies are all from Consumer Reports: The Most Reliable Cars Report; Best and Worst Values Report; Best and Worst Safety Performance Survey; and the CR overall scores for 2010 vehicles.

    We then added to the list any vehicles that received fewer than three out of five power circles in this year's Vehicle Dependability Study from J.D. Power and Associates. Any car, truck or SUV named among the worst in at least three of those five total studies made the final cut to be on the "Worst-Made" list.

    The biggest surprise on the list, given recent automotive news: It includes no Toyota (NYSE: TM) made vehicles. In fact, Toyota reported a 40.7% gain in sales last month over March 2009; its Lexus division was up 42%. (Generous buyer incentives greatly contributed to those numbers.) And although Consumer Reports has removed its "recommended pick" distinction from Toyota vehicles involved in the current recall, many analysts are standing by their previous assessments of Toyota's well-made products.

    "Toyota and Lexus both were fairly steady on their quality" in the dependability report released last month, says Dave Sargent, J.D. Power's vice president of global vehicle research. "Toyota has both good quality and a high consumer perception of their quality -- so Toyota is very much in line."

    GM's Chevrolet hasn't fared as well. Overall sales at Chevrolet are up, but sales of the $16,985 Chevrolet Colorado were down 21.9% year-over-year. Sales of the truck are down 32.2% for the year to date.

    The $11,965 Chevrolet Aveo made our list too -- but probably won't in the very near future. When the 2012 Aveo comes out next year, it'll feature styling improvements (large vents in the front, 19" wheels, circular headlights) and performance upgrades (likely a 1.4-liter, four-cylinder turbo-boosted engine with 138 horsepower and a six-speed manual transmission). Early photos and speculation from experts like Jake Fisher, the senior automotive engineer at Consumer Reports, indicate it'll hold its own against Nissan's Versa and Honda's Fit -- two reliable, affordable, strong sellers.

    Tough Trucks?

    Aside from the Aveo, though, most of the worst-made cars on our list aren't cars at all -- they're trucks and SUVs. Besides the Colorado, GMC's $16,985 Canyon and Ford's $28,020 F-250 received some of the lowest scores of any vehicles we considered. The Canyon SLE, for instance, was listed by Consumer Reports as one of the worst values of any 2010 vehicle and as one of the least reliable new vehicles on the market this year. It received just two out of five power circles on J.D. Power's overall dependability rating.

    The F-250 Lariat earned both the "worst value" and "worst safety performance" distinctions from Consumer Reports this year. It received an overall score of just 37 out of 100 points for predicted reliability, fuel economy, depreciation, ride, owner costs, accident avoidance, front-seat comfort, acceleration and owner satisfaction.[/QUOTE]

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    Really sad on so many levels. How many times since the 60s have the various auto company "brain trusts" allowed foreign manufacturers to beat them at their own game? Greedy, inept, fools.

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    [QUOTE=Borgoguy;3555053]Really sad on so many levels. How many times since the 60s have the various auto company "brain trusts" allowed foreign manufacturers to beat them at their own game? Greedy, inept, fools.[/QUOTE]

    You'd think with the Japanese eating their lunch, and the Koreans really coming on strong, that these idiots would get their act together. Unbelieveable.

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    I've put over 20k miles on my '09 Trailblazer SS since I bought it in May, and aside from lousy gas mileage (due to bigass V8) it has been great.

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    [QUOTE=jetswin;3555179]I've put over 20k miles on my '09 Trailblazer SS since I bought it in May, and aside from lousy gas mileage (due to bigass V8) it has been great.[/QUOTE]

    My friend has a 2009 Wrangler (also on that list) and it seems as if that POS is in the shop at least once a month. I'd love to get a Jeep (always loved them) but after seeing all the headache this one has been, I won't go near one of them.

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    This past weekend went to an Auto fair, where people were trying to sell there old cars, ranging from 30's up to early 70's muscle cars, man we used to build some cars to be proud of! Now i cringe when I see some of these new GM's on the road, just plain ugly engineering.

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    From the article: "The F-250 Lariat earned both the "worst value" and "worst safety performance" distinctions from Consumer Reports this year. It received an overall score of just 37 out of 100 points for predicted reliability, fuel economy, depreciation, ride, owner costs, accident avoidance, front-seat comfort, acceleration and owner satisfaction."

    Accident avoidance? Sure, try to avoid an accident with a 7000+ lbs truck. Don't even try - just hit the a**hole that just made a left turn right in front of you. You won't feel it, and it's better than flipping the darn thing trying to avoid the accident.

    Accleration? What part of that 7000+ lbs plus truck, with the $28K sticker 5.4L V8 did you not understand?

    Ride? 7000+ lbs truck? Get it? Put 2000lbs in the bed - the ride gets much better. But then, the acceleration thing comes up again

    Fuel economy? See above.

    Owner costs? Gee, it's a TRUCK - what do you expect?

    Depreciation? Where the heck did THAT come from?

    Predicted reliability? Predicted by whom? What engine? The 5.4 is generally a very reliable platform, so in keeping with that $28K sticker it's gotta be a V8 not a diesel. Or is it?

    And so on, and so on, and so on.

    Sometimes I wonder what people use, their brains or their ass...

    Typical "Forbes" article written by a Prius driving p*ssy...;)

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    O-Motors needs to pay their union employees more, plus increase their pension and medical. 75 bucks an hour IS NOT enough to produce an inferior product.

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    I thought this thread was about Matt Millen and the front office.

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    [QUOTE=acepepe;3555259]O-Motors needs to pay their union employees more, plus increase their pension and medical. 75 bucks an hour IS NOT enough to produce an inferior product.[/QUOTE]

    <sigh>

    It's the engineers, bro. Do you think the factory workers were the ones to decide to put fancy body panels on a Tahoe frame and call it a Cadillac?

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    [QUOTE=BURGERMIKE;3555260]I thought this thread was about Matt Millen and the front office.[/QUOTE]

    Doesn't Ford own the Lions now? The irony should escape no one. :D

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    [QUOTE=acepepe;3555259]O-Motors needs to pay their union employees more, plus increase their pension and medical. 75 bucks an hour IS NOT enough to produce an inferior product.[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3555276]<sigh>

    It's the engineers, bro. Do you think the factory workers were the ones to decide to put fancy body panels on a Tahoe frame and call it a Cadillac?[/QUOTE]

    Plumber is right. The flaws that most of these cars suffer from are engineering ones. If the design sucks, then the car will be a POS regardlesss of how well it's bolted together.

    The problem is the Americans got complacent in the 70s. They developed a mentality that people would buy any POS they slapped their logo onto. That worked for a while when the Japanese had crappy cars. But while the Japanese (and now the Koreans as well) learned that consumers want a quality product, the Americans have maintained that same complacency.

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    [QUOTE=sourceworx;3555304]Plumber is right. The flaws that most of these cars suffer from are engineering ones. If the design sucks, then the car will be a POS regardlesss of how well it's bolted together.

    The problem is the Americans got complacent in the 70s. They developed a mentality that people would buy any POS they slapped their logo onto. That worked for a while when the Japanese had crappy cars. But while the Japanese (and now the Koreans as well) learned that consumers want a quality product, the Americans have maintained that same complacency.[/QUOTE]


    Actually, they're both right. The Big 3 always counted on the "Buy American!" to keep them afloat, not watching costs and designing reliable, good-looking cars people really want to buy. And the costs go from bloated union contracts to bloated executive salaries. Enough blame for everyone...

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    [QUOTE=sourceworx;3555304]Plumber is right. The flaws that most of these cars suffer from are engineering ones. If the design sucks, then the car will be a POS regardlesss of how well it's bolted together.[/QUOTE]

    I have a 2006 Equinox. Car has been perfect...no issues.

    But the other day I had to change the bulb in the headlight. In order to do it, I had to take 8 bolts off of the front grille, take the grille off, unbolt the headlamp assembly from the body panels, wriggle the whole thing out of place (not easy) and disassemble wiring from harness hidden behind the battery before I could unscrew the bulb.

    A factory worker wouldn't have thought of a way to overcomplicated something so easy a "changing a lightbulb". Only a Kolluge edumikated fool suffering from a bad case of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect"]Dunning-Kruger Effect[/URL] could be capable of this insanity.


    Besides. The $75/hour thing is just a myth. If that was true, Buffalo/Detroit would be one of the most affluent communities in the country...since all dem damn factory workers would be making enough money to put them in the top 5% of all wage earners in the US. Truth is that the $75 figure comes from averaging out all the "legacy" costs paid by GM to it's retired workers...which they have a lot more since we've been manufacturing cars in the US since the early 1900's...and Toyota has been manufacturing cars in the US since the mid 80's.

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    its fine and dandy to blame the engineers... try to change a lightbulb on a volkswagen or honda it's alot easier. USA has bad engineers.

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3555276]<sigh>

    It's the engineers, bro. Do you think the factory workers were the ones to decide to put fancy body panels on a Tahoe frame and call it a Cadillac?[/QUOTE]

    You young-uns probably don't remember this, but back in the late seventy's and early eighty's I vividly remember a GM employee on tv stating that "they were intentionally doing inferior work because they didn't like their contract"
    It's a systemic problem at GM and has been for 30 years. PS the union TELLS them what kind of cars THEY are going to build.
    No myth pk pay and beni's are about 75

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    [QUOTE=quantum;3555313]Actually, they're both right. The Big 3 always counted on the "Buy American!" to keep them afloat, not watching costs and designing reliable, good-looking cars people really want to buy. And the costs go from bloated union contracts to bloated executive salaries. Enough blame for everyone...[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. I totally agree.

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    Currently on 8 years of Hyundai. Not a single problem. Oil changes at around 7500 miles and that's it.

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    [QUOTE=acepepe;3555394]You young-uns probably don't remember this, but back in the late seventy's and early eighty's I vividly remember a GM employee on tv stating that "they were intentionally doing inferior work because they didn't like their contract"
    It's a systemic problem at GM and has been for 30 years. PS the union TELLS them what kind of cars THEY are going to build.
    No myth pk pay and beni's are about 75[/QUOTE]

    Back then they could get away with that. At the time their competitors were considered by most people to be inferior.

    The problem is while the competition has improved their quality and designs by leaps and bounds, the Big 3 not only didn't improve on theirs, they let it get much worse. Look at the cars they've put out in the last 15-20 years. Other than maybe a handful, their cars have been unexciting and unreliable. Union contracts or not, a company in a competitive marketplace is guaranteed to fail if they make inferior products.

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    While we're on the subject:

    What do you guys think of the new Challenger, Camaro, and Mustang? The updated but retro styling is kind of cool....

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