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Thread: Nickel Back!

  1. #1

    Nickel Back!

    There is IMO one need the Jets have that if we do not address it, we will never beat Peyton Manning and the Colts, and we will continue to have trouble with any teams with high octane passing attacks that feature 3 strong WRs including a potent slot guy.

    Maybe we don't remember because we were so proud that we even got to the AFCCG, and thought that what we saw was unstoppable -- Vintage Manning giving a HOF-worthy clinic. But what I saw was a team trying to hang on by the seat of our pants because our most vulnerable area was getting exposed over and over.

    So here it is, remember: Our starting NB Strickland, who is pretty good when healthy, which he never is, goes down early, leaving us to go Dwight Lowery at NB. Already, Sheppard has been getting torched and called for penalties on the Colts #2 and #3 Wrs. Rhodes is just always a little off on his coverage - and the WRS are just pulling em down from everywhere.

    We lose, and here we are now, the team has done a self-scout.

    Sheppard: gone
    Rhodes: see ya
    Strickland: nice knowing ya

    All of the guys responsible are gone. Except for Lowery, who may be the worst, who couldn't cover jack that day, and who may not belong on a NFL football field.

    We retool.

    For Sheppard: Cromartie.
    For Rhodes: Brodney Pool.

    But for Strickland, we have no replacement. And Lowery is still the team's #3 CB, the starting NB, which is basically a starting position in today's passing league.

    It's true a pass rush helps. But no one ever gets to Manning.

    Dwight Lowery is our starting NB, and while I feel bad he sucks, he just sucks.

    For this team to improve against the 3 WR sets (rememeber Welker's record game?)- we need an upgrade immediately.

    I don't know how we are going to do it, but it has to happen. No OLB, no DE will help if we have to face Peyton Manning again.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsvQOKFMxik

  2. #2
    I like Dwight Lowery, but Dominique Franks ftw.

    Donovan Warren or Myron Lewis in the 4th wouldn't hurt/kill either.

  3. #3
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    Good thread. It was obvious after the AFCCG that we just weren't good enough at CB2 and the secondary wasn't deep enough. We were forced into nickel and dime packages almost the entire second half of the game and when we attempted to blitz Manning was able to beat them way too easily.

    I definitely think we go CB with one of our first two picks in the draft, hopefully with #29 if the right player is there.

    This would look pretty good:

    CB1 Darrelle Revis
    CB2 Antonio Cromartie
    CB3/Nickel Devin McCourty (would love to see Kyle Wilson here, but he's not going to make it to #29)
    Reserve Dwight Lowery

    And JMO but I think Drew Coleman got torched much worse that game than Lowery, who I think has some value to the team.

  4. #4
    If we had a pass rush to pressure the QB, we wouldn't "need" a solid nickelback.

    With no pass rush, QBs like Manning can sit in the pocket comfortably and make any throw.

    If you can pressure the QB you can let them make the mistake instead of the secondary.

    I wouldn't draft a CB in the first round just for the nickel position.

    DE/OLB should be out number one priority with OL in mind with our aging LG and RT in Faneca and Woody.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyjets212 View Post
    If we had a pass rush to pressure the QB, we wouldn't "need" a solid nickelback.

    With no pass rush, QBs like Manning can sit in the pocket comfortably and make any throw.

    If you can pressure the QB you can let them make the mistake instead of the secondary.

    I wouldn't draft a CB in the first round just for the nickel position.

    ... + 1 ...





    l_j_r

  6. #6
    ... i do want to see db & ol depth addressed after the 1st pick as well ...





    l_j_r

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    I like Dwight Lowery, but Dominique Franks ftw.

    Donovan Warren or Myron Lewis in the 4th wouldn't hurt/kill either.
    Can Warren play CB? I'm looking at him as a S.

    I'm looking at Josh Moore or Kevin Thomas as the Jets CB options in the 4th.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyjets212 View Post
    If we had a pass rush to pressure the QB, we wouldn't "need" a solid nickelback.

    With no pass rush, QBs like Manning can sit in the pocket comfortably and make any throw.

    If you can pressure the QB you can let them make the mistake instead of the secondary.

    I wouldn't draft a CB in the first round just for the nickel position.

    DE/OLB should be out number one priority with OL in mind with our aging LG and RT in Faneca and Woody.
    Agreed.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Can Warren play CB? I'm looking at him as a S.

    I'm looking at Josh Moore or Kevin Thomas as the Jets CB options in the 4th.
    the question should be if Warren can play in the NFL period- not can he play CB....he's slow, sluggish and is strictly a zone DB who can only cover in a limited area...

    Thomas is moving up boards- solid developmental guy but I doubt he gets out of round three...

    Love Moore though his forty time at the combine is gonna hurt him...he looked incredible on film and some said had he returned for his senior season he would've been a top 4 CB moving towards 2011....

    Darian Stewart/S/South Carolina is a guy to consider in 4, AJ Jefferson/CB-RS/Fresno in the same frame- needs a lot of work on his DB skills but will bring immediate impact in the return game...

    Walter McFadden/CB/Auburn in the later rounds, ditto for Rafael Priest/CB/TCU- a guy i really like...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    the question should be if Warren can play in the NFL period- not can he play CB....he's slow, sluggish and is strictly a zone DB who can only cover in a limited area...

    Thomas is moving up boards- solid developmental guy but I doubt he gets out of round three...

    Love Moore though his forty time at the combine is gonna hurt him...he looked incredible on film and some said had he returned for his senior season he would've been a top 4 CB moving towards 2011....

    Darian Stewart/S/South Carolina is a guy to consider in 4, AJ Jefferson/CB-RS/Fresno in the same frame- needs a lot of work on his DB skills but will bring immediate impact in the return game...

    Walter McFadden/CB/Auburn in the later rounds, ditto for Rafael Priest/CB/TCU- a guy i really like...
    More (no pun) of a reason to take him in the 4th....Great value!

    Thanks for the info on the other CBs to consider.

    What do you think of S Jeromy Miles UMass?

    I was looking at him as a possible S option for Jets in the 6th.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    There is IMO one need the Jets have that if we do not address it, we will never beat Peyton Manning and the Colts, and we will continue to have trouble with any teams with high octane passing attacks that feature 3 strong WRs including a potent slot guy.

    Maybe we don't remember because we were so proud that we even got to the AFCCG, and thought that what we saw was unstoppable -- Vintage Manning giving a HOF-worthy clinic. But what I saw was a team trying to hang on by the seat of our pants because our most vulnerable area was getting exposed over and over.

    So here it is, remember: Our starting NB Strickland, who is pretty good when healthy, which he never is, goes down early, leaving us to go Dwight Lowery at NB. Already, Sheppard has been getting torched and called for penalties on the Colts #2 and #3 Wrs. Rhodes is just always a little off on his coverage - and the WRS are just pulling em down from everywhere.

    We lose, and here we are now, the team has done a self-scout.

    Sheppard: gone
    Rhodes: see ya
    Strickland: nice knowing ya

    All of the guys responsible are gone. Except for Lowery, who may be the worst, who couldn't cover jack that day, and who may not belong on a NFL football field.

    We retool.

    For Sheppard: Cromartie.
    For Rhodes: Brodney Pool.

    But for Strickland, we have no replacement. And Lowery is still the team's #3 CB, the starting NB, which is basically a starting position in today's passing league.

    It's true a pass rush helps. But no one ever gets to Manning.

    Dwight Lowery is our starting NB, and while I feel bad he sucks, he just sucks.

    For this team to improve against the 3 WR sets (rememeber Welker's record game?)- we need an upgrade immediately.

    I don't know how we are going to do it, but it has to happen. No OLB, no DE will help if we have to face Peyton Manning again.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsvQOKFMxik
    How about getting an OLB that could actually rush the passer, so we dont have to send 7 or 8 man blitzes?

    We can leave another 2-3 guys in coverage then. That games alot different having a second impact OLB, and having Jenkins in there.

    I do agree with your point, but I think Manning will cut up just about any CB we can get in this draft at our spot.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Can Warren play CB? I'm looking at him as a S.

    I'm looking at Josh Moore or Kevin Thomas as the Jets CB options in the 4th.
    Thomas is Eric Wright without the character problems (oh look, someone who's character issues haven't been an issue and were probably exaggerated...my minds been blown)...he's not getting out of the 3rd.

    Moore wouldn't be bad.

    Warren is probably more safety than CB...and definitely more of a zone type pass defender...but Michigan guys are Michigan guys and even their supposed busts (Watson and Branch) from the recent years are solid players. I think the only guy hasn't shown up from Michigan that was considered a half decent prospect is Crable, and he's not out of the league yet. If Michigan was any good he'd be seen in a different light...He's basically Marlin Jackson as a prospect with less love. Another way to put it in cliche form is that Warren is a "football player" or "student of the game."

    Still...my dream draft looks something like:

    Cody
    Franks
    Hardy/Witten (doesn't really matter which one)
    Lewis (Kendrick)
    Peek
    Mesko

  13. #13
    For this draft class there is one DB who i think will fit perfectly as a nickel DB and that is Javier Arenas, because of his quick twitch ability. I feel that he could give us someone who can cover slot WRs and be another efficent tackler. Every time at Alabama it felt like Arenas was in on almost every play on defense. His production shows that he is in on a lot of plays, and the film shows he can handle slant routes and provide a blitzing DB.

  14. #14
    Peyton manning has been sacked about the same amount of times as Ben Roethlisberger.

    In over 100 more games.

    Manning gets rid of the rock so fast a pass rush doesn't help that much.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    More (no pun) of a reason to take him in the 4th....Great value!

    Thanks for the info on the other CBs to consider.

    What do you think of S Jeromy Miles UMass?

    I was looking at him as a possible S option for Jets in the 6th.
    I'm not real big on Myles- just a guy who never really stood out to me when I watched him the past two years....I think he'll be an UDFA....

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinkingJet View Post
    For this draft class there is one DB who i think will fit perfectly as a nickel DB and that is Javier Arenas, because of his quick twitch ability. I feel that he could give us someone who can cover slot WRs and be another efficent tackler. Every time at Alabama it felt like Arenas was in on almost every play on defense. His production shows that he is in on a lot of plays, and the film shows he can handle slant routes and provide a blitzing DB.
    Another reason to love Arenas is that he's an awesome punt returner...+1 on him being a major sleeper for a team like us.

    If we draft a 'Bama player I'm just tagging him with "Saban coached, Ryan approved" and walking away. That guy will probably be fine in the long run.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Another reason to love Arenas is that he's an awesome punt returner...+1 on him being a major sleeper for a team like us.

    If we draft a 'Bama player I'm just tagging him with "Saban coached, Ryan approved" and walking away. That guy will probably be fine in the long run.
    Sleeper for a predominantly cover-2 team...definitely not us. He's a bad man CB...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by gangGREENinsider View Post
    Sleeper for a predominantly cover-2 team...definitely not us. He's a bad man CB...
    I'm thinking nickel back...I doubt he's an outside corner at all. Plus, every team plays Cover 2.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    I'm not real big on Myles- just a guy who never really stood out to me when I watched him the past two years....I think he'll be an UDFA....
    Thanks. NFLDraftscout.com had a good review of him..But they seem to be the only one so far that I have seen...Guess that should tell me something...LOL...Just looking for a 6th-7th round S prospect with upside.

    Analysis
    Read & React: Recognizes run or pass quickly, and keeps an eye on the quarterback while understanding routes coming in his area. Jumps screen passes, fighting through blocks to do so. Could chase down plays across the field more regularly.
    Man Coverage: Lines up against slot receivers regularly, and has the length and strength to press. Needs to tighten up his backpedal as he tends to get high and choppy, but transitions well to run with receivers down the field. Adequate change of direction skills to stay with larger receivers but does not have elite agility to stay with quicker NFL slot men. Breaks on the ball, however, and uses his recognition skills to jump routes or be in the right place for a tipped-ball interception. Good concentration and hands to make the play and can outrun would-be tacklers, run through them, or make them miss after the catch to flip field position.

    Zone Coverage: Good range to cover the deep half, and quick enough to get to the sideline or the seam to help out his corner. Explosive tackler on plays in front of him. Can be a step late to see open receivers on seam routes.

    Closing/Recovery: Good acceleration to the ball when it is in the air; can knock away passes as the ball arrives or as the receiver make the catch. Lacks great recovery speed if beaten by a double move or if late recognizing receiver coming into his area.

    Run Support: Very willing and physical in run support, attacking the line of scrimmage. Will duck his head but usually gets into the thigh of the running back and wraps up a leg to bring him down. Seven career forced fumbles shows ability to get his helmet on the ball. Maintains gap responsibility. Will get redirected by receiver blocks or try to run around them, but is strong enough to shed.

    Tackling: Secure wrap-up tackler in the box or in space. Likes to lower the shoulder as well on receivers on crossing routes. Comfortable in the box or playing deep. Angles to the ball could be improved, but usually has the length and agility to still make the play.

    Intangibles: Team captain as a senior who understood his role as a motivator and leader by example for the team's younger players. Academic all-conference in 2008, 2009. Navy transfer could be a red flag, but Miles and his coaches say he learned discipline and respect during his time in Annapolis. Special teams contributor. Durable four-year starter.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...;pageContainer

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    Peyton manning has been sacked about the same amount of times as Ben Roethlisberger.

    In over 100 more games.

    Manning gets rid of the rock so fast a pass rush doesn't help that much.
    NO never sacked him once in the Super Bowl.

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