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Thread: Keeping all this talent...

  1. #1
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    Keeping all this talent...

    Much has been made of DR's contract. But I was wondering if one of our resident capologists can shed some light on whether it is possible to keep our core plus a cromartie and/or braylon? Obviously the players can't all want max money, but even if they were willing to take team friendly deals is there a way to structure the contracts to make the situation more manageable?

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    gonna be pretty impossible. i think that cromartie and either holmes or edwards are gone next year.

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    [QUOTE=Woody56;3626016]gonna be pretty impossible. i think that cromartie and either holmes or edwards are gone next year.[/QUOTE]


    Lets see what Mr. T can do, hopefully he can perform some magic. A lot depends on the new CBA.

    We need to build on the core four and then go from there. Unfortunately the CBA situation is our worst enemy right now.

  4. #4
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    After today, and based on what has been reported, Edwards is the player to keep out of Edwards and Holmes, if it has to come to that.

  5. #5
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    A while back I posted players that I think will be gone next year (or who I think should go and should be retained realistically). I seemed like a pretty decent purge of guys but here it is:

    Damien Woody
    Bryan Thomas
    Vernon Gholston
    Shaun Ellis
    Jason Taylor
    Kellen Clemmens
    Tony Richardson
    Ladanian Tomlinson

    Those are some big names I realistically expect gone (make no mistake that a ton of salary relief will come with their departure). Now here is where my fantasy/speculation comes in:

    I take the Jets at face value that they will sign revis, harris, d'brick and mangold. If we had to lose one of those 4 guys, I would let Harris go as decent ILB are somewhat easier to find than lockdown cbs, all-world centers and top 5 LTs. If Harris is gone, it would be a move in order to keep Cromartie assuming he lives up to his potential. Everyone is assuming either santonio or edwards will be gone next season however an alternative would be to attempt to trade Cotchery and try to sign both guys as they are young studs. If Kris Jenkins has another difficult season and gets injured or worn down, I can see the Jets either try to trade him as well or just let him go (that's tough for me to swallow be Kris is loved by fans).

    In summary, if it came down to making the difficult decisions to try to keep as many of the super-talented players together, I wouldn't be totally pissed if the Jets got rid of Harris, Cotch, and Jenkins in order to keep Santonio, Braylon and Cromartie.

    You may now kill me for my assessment...

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=JetsMakeMeCry;3626046]A while back I posted players that I think will be gone next year (or who I think should go and should be retained realistically). I seemed like a pretty decent purge of guys but here it is:

    Damien Woody
    Bryan Thomas
    Vernon Gholston
    Shaun Ellis
    Jason Taylor
    Kellen Clemmens
    Tony Richardson
    Ladanian Tomlinson

    Those are some big names I realistically expect gone (make no mistake that a ton of salary relief will come with their departure). Now here is where my fantasy/speculation comes in:

    I take the Jets at face value that they will sign revis, harris, d'brick and mangold. If we had to lose one of those 4 guys,[B] I would let Harris go [/B]as decent ILB are somewhat easier to find than lockdown cbs, all-world centers and top 5 LTs. If Harris is gone, it would be a move in order to keep Cromartie assuming he lives up to his potential. Everyone is assuming either santonio or edwards will be gone next season however an alternative would be to attempt to trade Cotchery and try to sign both guys as they are young studs. If Kris Jenkins has another difficult season and gets injured or worn down, I can see the Jets either try to trade him as well or just let him go (that's tough for me to swallow be Kris is loved by fans).

    In summary, if it came down to making the difficult decisions to try to keep as many of the super-talented players together, I wouldn't be totally pissed if the Jets got rid of Harris, Cotch, and Jenkins in order to keep Santonio, Braylon and Cromartie.

    You may now kill me for my assessment...[/QUOTE]

    "how about no way"
    Rex Ryan

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    Its hard to say without knowing the new cap rules and such, but it certainly will not be easy. Assuming everyone got redone next year the Jets would be looking at having 7 guys rank in the top 10 in their respective positions in terms of contract value. Those 7 would be Revis, Mangold, Ferguson, Harris, Holmes, Edwards, and Scott. I guess there is a very outside chance they could add Sanchez or Cromartie to this list to make it 8.

    There were only 4 teams in the NFL last season that had 7 or more guys rank in the top 10 in total contract value- Dallas, Minnesota, St Louis (!), and Philadelphia. Three made the playoffs, but they all have had the advantage of having been able to stagger those deals which allows them to not destroy their cap. The average in the NFL was slightly over 4 top 10 guys. Eight of the playoff teams had four or less, with the Patriots coming in with only two, tied for lowest in the NFL and clearly the team getting the most bang for their buck.

    The Jets have already started clearing room. They got rid of two of their three guys that ranked in the top 10 (Faneca and Rhodes) which gives them two spots to play with, but my guess is that they will be careful here. The other teams to have more than 4 in the top 10 were Oakland (5 wins), Washington (4 wins), Carolina (8 wins), Tennessee (8 wins), Giants (8 wins), Indianapolis (15 wins), and Seattle (5 wins). Its pretty clear that the teams that are able to handle the big cap charges that likely diminish depth are the ones with the big QBs- Indy, Philly, Dall, and Minn all had excellent QB play last season. If Sanchez is not going to be at that level the Jet would be foolish to invest in all those costly players. They are more likely to be an 8 win team than a 13 win team in that scenario.

    I think if the Jets are going to get it done capwise they are going to have to convince some of the players to take shorter term deals where the Jets can control the cap hits a bit better. That would be for Edwards and Holmes in particular. They will also probably have to get some of the guys to defer payments, such as Brick likely not getting a big bonus and/or salary until 2012. That is probably the reason why the Jets dont want Revis' new money to kick in until 2012. They need him in at low cap numbers these next three years.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=JetsMakeMeCry;3626046]A while back I posted players that I think will be gone next year (or who I think should go and should be retained realistically). I seemed like a pretty decent purge of guys but here it is:

    Damien Woody
    Bryan Thomas
    Vernon Gholston
    Shaun Ellis
    Jason Taylor
    Kellen Clemmens
    Tony Richardson
    Ladanian Tomlinson

    Those are some big names I realistically expect gone (make no mistake that a ton of salary relief will come with their departure). Now here is where my fantasy/speculation comes in:

    I take the Jets at face value that they will sign revis, harris, d'brick and mangold. If we had to lose one of those 4 guys, I would let Harris go as decent ILB are somewhat easier to find than lockdown cbs, all-world centers and top 5 LTs. If Harris is gone, it would be a move in order to keep Cromartie assuming he lives up to his potential. Everyone is assuming either santonio or edwards will be gone next season however an alternative would be to attempt to trade Cotchery and try to sign both guys as they are young studs. If Kris Jenkins has another difficult season and gets injured or worn down, I can see the Jets either try to trade him as well or just let him go (that's tough for me to swallow be Kris is loved by fans).

    In summary, if it came down to making the difficult decisions to try to keep as many of the super-talented players together, I wouldn't be totally pissed if the Jets got rid of Harris, Cotch, and Jenkins in order to keep Santonio, Braylon and Cromartie.

    You may now kill me for my assessment...[/QUOTE]

    Trade Cot..... trade Cot...... TRADE COTCHERY!!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=JetsMakeMeCry;3626046]In summary, if it came down to making the difficult decisions to try to keep as many of the super-talented players together, [B]I wouldn't be totally pissed if the Jets got rid of Harris, Cotch, and Jenkins in order to keep Santonio, Braylon and Cromartie[/B].

    You may now kill me for my assessment...[/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't get rid of Jenkins or Harris, and I didn't want to be the first to bring up the possibility of letting go of Cotchery so thanks for mentioning it. Most would agree that Braylon and Holmes have legitimate #1 talent and while JCo was our #1 to start last season, he's been more of a #2/#1A throughout his career. So if you knew you could keep two out of three from Braylon, Holmes, and JCo wouldn't you pick Braylon & Santonio?

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    Unless Tanny can work some magic, I really think that Braylon and Holmes are competing this year for a spot next year. And if they both do well, they both get great new contracts, just one of them won't be with us. Hopefully we can get great trade value from one of them.

    This might come down to Cro and Wilson too, unless Cro proves too invaluable or Wilson doesn't progress as we hope him too.

    I don't even want to think about our linebackers. Harris is going to want something better than Scott soon. Pace is already making off like a bandit. Gholston's restructuring does help us a lot.

    tl,dr: Either Edwards or Holmes won't be with us next year. Cromartie? Maybe.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=teng;3626102]I wouldn't get rid of Jenkins or Harris, and I didn't want to be the first to bring up the possibility of letting go of Cotchery so thanks for mentioning it. Most would agree that Braylon and Holmes have legitimate #1 talent and while JCo was our #1 to start last season, he's been more of a #2/#1A throughout his career. So if you knew you could keep two out of three from Braylon, Holmes, and JCo wouldn't you pick Braylon & Santonio?[/QUOTE]

    i know trading cotch obviously is not a popular sentiment but you have to take your heart out of it. if you can keep 2 legit #1's, why wouldn't you? As far as Jenks and Harris, I think the point i'm trying to make is that if it came down to making that tough decision I feel like they would be the first 2 to go in order to keep the talent together. I obviously would never want them to leave the Jets.

  12. #12
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    1. Revis
    2. Holmes
    3. Edwards
    4. Fergeson
    5. Harris
    6. Mangold
    7. Cromartie

    These are your 7 immediate contract issues after this season. I'm assuming that Revis will get done and so will Fergeson. BUT if Revis gets even close to ASO money and Fergeson gets top 5 LT money, then I think the best the Jet FO will be able to do is sign 2 more of the 7. Its just a matter of WHICH 2? (IMHO It should be Mangold and Harris, but I think the Jets will go with Mangold and one of the WRs because if you pay Harris, the Jets would have 3 of the highest paid LBs in the league, plus the Jets will want to give Sanchez at least one legit #1 WR.)

    In other words, if I were a Jet fan, I'd just enjoy this year and not worry about this until the 2010 season is over. Because, while the Jets can be concidered a legitimate Superbowl contender in 2010 (one of about 8 teams), your "window" might close as rapidly as it opened. ;)
    Last edited by patsfanken; 06-17-2010 at 09:08 PM.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3627029]1. Revis
    2. Holmes
    3. Edwards
    4. Fergeson
    5. Harris
    6. Mangold
    7. Cromartie

    These are your 7 immediate contract issues after this season. I'm assuming that Revis will get done and so will Fergeson. BUT if Revis gets even close to ASO money and Fergeson gets top 5 LT money, then I think the best the Jet FO will be able to do is sign 2 more of the 7. Its just a matter of WHICH 2? (IMHO It should be Mangold and Harris, but I think the Jets will go with Mangold and one of the WRs)

    In other words, if I were a Jet fan, I'd just enjoy this year and not worry about this until the 2010 season is over. Because, while the Jets can be concidered a legitimate Superbowl contender in 2010 (one of about 8 teams), your "window" might close as rapidly as it opened. ;)[/QUOTE]

    You say this as a blanket statement.

    You have zero visibility to the Jets cap next year (other than through Jason) and you have absolutely ZERO visibility into the CBA next season.

    Just stop Ken.

    STOP.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=JetsMakeMeCry;3626046]A while back I posted players that I think will be gone next year (or who I think should go and should be retained realistically). I seemed like a pretty decent purge of guys but here it is:

    Damien Woody
    Bryan Thomas
    Vernon Gholston
    Shaun Ellis
    Jason Taylor
    Kellen Clemmens
    Tony Richardson
    Ladanian Tomlinson

    [/QUOTE]

    If the details on Revis are true, Cromartie is a goner. The Jets won't spend that kind of $$$ on Revis and draft a CB #1 in Wilson to give Cromartie a big contract -no matter how much Rex loves CBs

    I think Ellis stays - he's old enough that he's not going to command a big deal. LT also stays - he's signed for relatively cheap. I can see the rest of the guys on your list being let go, along with Holmes. I just don't see them resigning him and Edwards - unless Edwards goes off for a monster year, and the Jets can no longer afford him

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    You don't need to be a cap genius to see through this, its just common sense. Just look at what it would probably take to sign all seven hypothetically. And feel free to let me know if I'm off in my estimates

    Revis with take $15MM/. A top 5 (so I'm being told) LT is easily $10MM/. The top C will be around $8MM/, the same is likely for a top ILB, so its another $8MM/ for Harris. If Revis is getting $15 and Cromartie is half as good a everyone here thinks he is (and I believe you will all be very disappointed) he's going to want at least $8MM, and now we get to the WRs. A number #1 WR gets $10MM/, and low and behold everyone here thinks they have 2 #1s. :rolleyes:, but lets make the assumption the Jets decide to keep only one.

    So if the Jets want to keep the bulk of their top contract issues, its going to cost amost $60MM/yr for just 6 players, not counting your so called franchise QB. (a guy who will want to redo his contract after 3 years if he's just close to as good as you hope).

    So in this scenerio 13% of your roster (7 guys) will be eating up around 50% of your cap space (assuming a $150MM cap) This IS NOT a formula for success in the NFL. But it IS a formula for success in Fantasy Football ;)

    Get over it. Enjoy this season because you just can't keep everyone...and you won't

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    [QUOTE=Ray Ray19;3626043]After today, and based on what has been reported, Edwards is the player to keep out of Edwards and Holmes, if it has to come to that.[/QUOTE]

    I totally agree. It is June and were months away from the season. So lets already declare Edwards over Holmes.. good call

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3627106]You don't need to be a cap genius to see through this, its just common sense. Just look at what it would probably take to sign all seven hypothetically. And feel free to let me know if I'm off in my estimates

    Revis with take $15MM/. A top 5 (so I'm being told) LT is easily $10MM/. The top C will be around $8MM/, the same is likely for a top ILB, so its another $8MM/ for Harris. If Revis is getting $15 and Cromartie is half as good a everyone here thinks he is (and I believe you will all be very disappointed) he's going to want at least $8MM, and now we get to the WRs. A number #1 WR gets $10MM/, and low and behold everyone here thinks they have 2 #1s. :rolleyes:, but lets make the assumption the Jets decide to keep only one.

    So if the Jets want to keep the bulk of their top contract issues, its going to cost amost $60MM/yr for just 6 players, not counting your so called franchise QB. (a guy who will want to redo his contract after 3 years if he's just close to as good as you hope).

    So in this scenerio 13% of your roster (7 guys) will be eating up around 50% of your cap space (assuming a $150MM cap) This IS NOT a formula for success in the NFL. But it IS a formula for success in Fantasy Football ;)

    Get over it. Enjoy this season because you just can't keep everyone...and you won't[/QUOTE]

    It doesnt work that way. The cap numbers can be spread out to be more cap friendly.

  18. #18
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    My guess is that

    The jets will not sign Cromartie long term he is a one year player. as they drafted Wilson

    Edwards & Holmes both walk,

    Harris walks, They have too much tied up with Scott and Pace.

    And no way in hell the cap will be going to 150m, if anything it may decrease.

    Mangold and Dbrick and Revis stays. The jets lose one star and keep 3 stars

    Holmes may stay if he takes a lot of team protective language. BUT IMO some team will take him and run that risk.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=patman;3627219]My guess is that

    The jets will not sign Cromartie long term he is a one year player. as they drafted Wilson

    Edwards & Holmes both walk,

    Harris walks, They have too much tied up with Scott and Pace.

    And no way in hell the cap will be going to 150m, if anything it may decrease.

    Mangold and Dbrick and Revis stays. The jets lose one star and keep 3 stars

    Holmes may stay if he takes a lot of team protective language. BUT IMO some team will take him and run that risk.[/QUOTE]

    Your guess..... well don't we feel enlightened.


    GFY!

  20. #20
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    The Jets will get them all signed

    Tanny is not Belichick who can't figure these things out, gets psychotically angry and trades away his best defensive player for a draft pick he doesn't even see for 19 months

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