View Poll Results: Who's career would you rather have?

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  • Ron Guidry

    19 82.61%
  • Jamie Moyer

    4 17.39%
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Thread: Who's career would you rather have? Ron Guidry or Jamie Moyer

  1. #1
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    Who's career would you rather have? Ron Guidry or Jamie Moyer

    Would you rather have a Ron Guidry type career, short with multiple Cy Young caliber years, or Jamie Moyer, okay to good for a long, long time?

  2. #2
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    Guidry had one of the single greatest seasons of all time. Moyer will be known as a guy who was decent and pitched until he was 80. I'll take the dominance in a short span, please.

  3. #3
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    Since the bottom line with just about EVERYTHING is moo-lah-dee, gimme the multi-millions that Moyer has made.
    Now, if we can bump 1970s-80s dollars to today...I take Gator, even with the much shorter career!!!

  4. #4
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    We talking today, or when Guidry pitched?

    Today, Moyer without a doubt. Think about how much money you could rack in pitching above average baseball starting, say, in 2000, around when I would have been. He's been above to well above average more than he's been below, and heck, look at what a dead league average pitcher can make in baseball.

    Guys like Kaat, Tommy John, Sutton, Jack Morris, all had long, productive, league-averageish careers. Moyer, Wakefield, Millwood, and to a greater degree Pettitte (his #s are better than that group, but he'll retire a similar type guy, solid career based mostly on counting #s), have all made their careers on being solid, dependable, not great players. And have made lots of $ doing so. And have won championships doing so, or at least come close. Those guys are always in demand and always overpaid.

    Now, if the question were say, Sandy Kofax vs. Warren Spahn, short term historic dominance vs longterm continued excellence, that would be a tough one.

    But if I'm gonna be talked about either way and not make the HOF, then Moyer all the way.

  5. #5
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    I'd much rather be remembered for being great, albeit a short period of time, than remembered for just sticking around forever and never considered of the best in my profession.

    But Moyer has a healthy bank account now because of his longevity. But he was never even close to one of the best pitchers in the league... he wasn't even the best pitcher on his own team most of the time. He's the definition of mediocre.

  6. #6
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    Moyer. I've always had a lot of respect for the guys who were able to hang around forever and be effective regardless of the sport.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham View Post
    GUIDRY

    I would much rather have a shorter career and have tasted greatness than be "Joe Average" for a long long time
    Agreed. Plus Moyers career includes giving up more HRs than anyone else in the history of the game. Who wants that?

    Also, how many people when they think of Jamie Moyer think of him as a 20 and 21 game winner in 2001 and 2003? He had some pretty damn good years, and many people probably don't even know that. When I think of his career, I think of the last several years of his career where he was average, and pretty much automatically assume, in my head, that he's been average his entire career, but his longevity allowed him to compile the stats he has. I don't even think of him as a guy that was top 6 in Cy Young voting 3 times in his career.

  8. #8
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    Would you rather have the nickname Louisiana Lightning or Pennsylvania Prehistoric?

  9. #9
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    But seriously, Guidry's "greatness" was so short lived. You're talking about one truly "great" season and two other "very good" seasons and then maybe 3 more good seasons. That's about it. Guidry had one year season that was absolutely historically mind blowing, and you can never take that away, but its not like we are talking a five year run of unheard of dominance a la Kofax or Smokey Joe Wood.

    Would any of you take the career of Doc Gooden over Moyer?

  10. #10
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    I would take the career of Moyer. He will earn 10s of millions more dollars than Guidry ever dreamed of.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    But seriously, Guidry's "greatness" was so short lived. You're talking about one truly "great" season and two other "very good" seasons and then maybe 3 more good seasons. That's about it. Guidry had one year season that was absolutely historically mind blowing, and you can never take that away, but its not like we are talking a five year run of unheard of dominance a la Kofax or Smokey Joe Wood.
    I don't know what your definitions of "short-lived" and "good" and "very good" are...so I suppose all this is subjective.

    Guidry got to the Majors late in his BB life, but from 1977-1983 (7 seasons), he was clearly one of the best pitchers in the game...
    6 of those seasons were very good..one was historic.

    1984 was a poor season but that was followed up with 22 wins and a second-place Cy Young finish in 1985.

    That's a nice run by anyone's definition.

    No one ever said he was Sandy Koufax great..so not sure why you even bothered to bring that name up (twice) in this thread.
    Last edited by Phoenixx; 06-30-2010 at 11:57 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx View Post
    I don't know what your definitions of "short-lived" and "good" and "very good" are...so I suppose all this is subjective.

    Guidry got to the Majors late in his BB life, but from 1977-1983 (7 seasons), he was clearly one of the best pitchers in the game...
    6 of those seasons were very good..one was historic.

    1984 was a poor season but that was followed up with 22 wins and a second-place Cy Young finish in 1985.

    That's a nice run by anyone's definition.

    No one ever said he was Sandy Koufax great..so not sure why you even bothered to bring that name up (twice) in this thread.
    Don't use wins as a judge of a player's season, use the stats.

    Guidry was a very good pitcher for 4 seasons 77, 78, 79, and 85 (one of which was truly great). He was a good pitcher for two other seasons 80 and 83. HE was either league average or didn't pitch a full season for the other 8.

    By truly great, I mean that he was the top pitcher in the game and had one of the top seasons ever for a pitcher. Thus, Sandy Kofax, who was also truly great for a short amount of time but enough time to merit HOF entry.

    By very good, I mean that he was one of the top 10 pitchers in the league (go by WAR, whatever you want).

    By good, I mean that he was above league average but not by a lot (think Freddy Garcia/Kevin Millwood).

    And by league average, I mean, well, league average.



    All I am saying is that Guidry's dominance and career is often inflated by nostalgic Yankee fans, myself included, who remember him as the pitcher of those 4 seasons.

    There's nothing wrong with that, but I think its important, when arguing whether that's the career you would want and calling it great but short, to have all the cards on the table.

    In fact, Moyer had three "very good" seasons to Guidry's 4, which is to say, 3 seasons where he was one of the top ten pitchers in the league.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    Don't use wins as a judge of a player's season, use the stats.

    Guidry was a very good pitcher for 4 seasons 77, 78, 79, and 85 (one of which was truly great). He was a good pitcher for two other seasons 80 and 83. HE was either league average or didn't pitch a full season for the other 8.

    By truly great, I mean that he was the top pitcher in the game and had one of the top seasons ever for a pitcher. Thus, Sandy Kofax, who was also truly great for a short amount of time but enough time to merit HOF entry.

    By very good, I mean that he was one of the top 10 pitchers in the league (go by WAR, whatever you want).

    By good, I mean that he was above league average but not by a lot (think Freddy Garcia/Kevin Millwood).

    And by league average, I mean, well, league average.



    All I am saying is that Guidry's dominance and career is often inflated by nostalgic Yankee fans, myself included, who remember him as the pitcher of those 4 seasons.

    There's nothing wrong with that, but I think its important, when arguing whether that's the career you would want and calling it great but short, to have all the cards on the table.

    In fact, Moyer had three "very good" seasons to Guidry's 4, which is to say, 3 seasons where he was one of the top ten pitchers in the league.
    Like I said..its all subjective.
    You see things differently than I do.

    I look upon Guidry then as I do CC today.

    Tough as nails pitcher that battled even when not having best stuff..always kept his team in the game...a winner.

    Voluntarily left the rotation to become closer when Goose broke his hand.

    Put another way,..I was confident the Yankees would win every one of his starts...and I don't say that about alot of pitchers.

    For the totality of his career, Guidry was a very good pitcher..not great and not average.

    I am saying that not from stats, but from having seen him pitch basically every game of his career.


    And leave Sandy Koufax out of this discussion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    But seriously, Guidry's "greatness" was so short lived. You're talking about one truly "great" season and two other "very good" seasons and then maybe 3 more good seasons. That's about it. Guidry had one year season that was absolutely historically mind blowing, and you can never take that away, but its not like we are talking a five year run of unheard of dominance a la Kofax or Smokey Joe Wood.

    Would any of you take the career of Doc Gooden over Moyer?
    As long as I don't also have to take Gooden's off-field life too, I'd definitely take his career. One of the greatest pitching seasons ever, 3 World Series rings, a no-hitter vs. a bunch of good or average years.

    I'd also take Guidry's.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpoppy7 View Post
    As long as I don't also have to take Gooden's off-field life too, I'd definitely take his career. One of the greatest pitching seasons ever, 3 World Series rings, a no-hitter vs. a bunch of good or average years.

    I'd also take Guidry's.
    +1. Gooden was a mess of a human being, but I'd be able to enjoy that kind of success on the field for the rest of my life.

    Maybe it's just me, but all that extra money you'd make as a long term guy couldn't buy me any where near the satisfaction or enjoyment of my own personal physical and mental accomplishments. I'm as happy as a clam now and I'm not what they call rolling in the dough.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rep View Post
    Agreed. Plus Moyers career includes giving up more HRs than anyone else in the history of the game. Who wants that?

    Also, how many people when they think of Jamie Moyer think of him as a 20 and 21 game winner in 2001 and 2003? He had some pretty damn good years, and many people probably don't even know that. When I think of his career, I think of the last several years of his career where he was average, and pretty much automatically assume, in my head, that he's been average his entire career, but his longevity allowed him to compile the stats he has. I don't even think of him as a guy that was top 6 in Cy Young voting 3 times in his career.
    That fact helped me make my decision. I would choose Guidry's career.

  17. #17
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    Pretty easy choice, Guidry.

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