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Thread: Holes??? I'll give you holes.....

  1. #1
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    Holes??? I'll give you holes.....

    ...Ok, so the title is a little inflammatory. But because its sooooo slow, and I don't think I can read another "Revis Christ" thread, I thought I'd get back to some real football talk.

    Assumptions and ground rules:

    1. I fully acknowledge that the Jets look to be one of the favorites in the AFC. No question that they are one of the media's favorites this off season.

    2. I also acknowledge that the Pats have "holes" as well (as does every other team). So don't reply to this thread with "The Pats have holes too." That's a perfectly good topic for a separate thread, and I will reply when it happens.

    Appropriately this thread is about the Jets....and areas of concern they have going into this season. Feel free to rebut them, but please try and use the same logic that I am attempting to use in making my case. I am aware that there is another side and opposing views....and I'm interesting to hear them.

    3. In the interest of brevity I won't go into my usual long winded justifications. (I'll try at least ) I'll just make the statement and explain why in more detail as each point is rebutted.

    4. JMHO

    1. The biggest issue the Jets face is DEPTH. As one brave Jet fan asked recently "Can you name a single quality back up?" Injuries are a fact of life and although the Jets had 2 critical injuries last season (Jenkins and Washington), overall the Jets have suffered RELATIVELY few over the last couple of years.

    2. The DL - if past history is any indication, you can pretty much count on the fact that your best DLman (Jenkins) is NOT going to be a factor in December. Your second best DLman will be 34 when the season starts. After that you have 2 guys who have proven to be decent in back up roles.

    The DL is kind of weak to start and very thin beyond that. It could be that the Jet will be run on this year. Its a bigger problem when you factor in that vs anyone's running game you will only have 10 guys you can count on to defend it.

    3. The LBs - Excellent first group of 4, but absolutely NO known quantities beyond that. ANY injury to an ANY LB will cause problems

    4. The DBs - I think we have established 2 key facts here. Revis is very good, and Cromartie is an exceptional athlete who has vastly UNDERPERFORMED for over 2 years. So while it looks like an upgrade during the underwear olympics of the OTAs, Jet fans can only HOPE that you don't get the CB that took SDs money the last 2 seasons

    At S you have a midget and a ANOTHER guy who has troubles staying on the field. Whether its migraines or concussions, Poole DOES have this issue to overcome. An Lenard, as teams have a full off season to digest the Jets Defensive Schemes will find himself targeted more often by bigger WRs and TEs - I don't think that even Jet fans would consider S a strength of the team....and again there is that nagging issue of who backs them up.

    5. OL - This is seemingly the strength of the offense, but I can see 3 potential problems. a. Whether its Slauson or Ducasse, the Jets will open the season with a LG who has never started an NFL game. b. your RT will be 33 during this season, and has a lot of wear and tear on him. c. and again....who will back up any of these guys if someone, anyone goes down.

    6. RB - Green is a question mark only in wondering if he can stand up to the rigors of being the #1 RB and getting 250-350 carries/season. If he can then the Jets won't have a RB issue. If he can't then the linchpin of the Jets offense will be at serious risk.

    7. QB - I have a problem with Jet fans who think that Sanchez's growth as a QB is a linear progression. That he will keep getting better game to game. I don't think it works that way. Just ask Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, about their 2nd year as a starting QB. It wasn't always pretty. For Example Brady's over all numbers improved in 2002, but he wasn't nearly as efficient or consistent as one would have expected after the success of his 1st year.

    Sometimes I get the feeling that Jet fans expect Sanchez to be able to carry the Jets offense like a mature Brady or Manning, where a better expectation would be to have him get his TD/INT ratio back to .500 this season.

    In 5 of the seven Jet losses in 2009, 5 of them came when Sanchez had to throw more than 25 passes, and after game 3, every time Sanchez threw 30+ passes the Jets lost.

    Again, I'm not sure what kind of career Sanchez will have. He could very well end up being the franchise QB every Jet fan hopes for, but this is about "expectations". I get the feeling that that most Jet fans have already made the leap that Sanchez IS the next Brady or Manning, and nothing but good will come when he has to throw the ball 35-45 times a game. And while he very well may BE the the next Brady, he STILL isn't going to be exempt from the QB learning curve.....which DOESN'T include a "linear progression". And sometimes unreasonable expectations can hurt a players' true progression.

    8. Special Teams - This year the Jets will go into the season with a subpar punter and a kicker who has already kicked himself out of one job. If the Jets want to have great special teams then Jet fans will have to expect some of those high priced starters are going to have to get their hands dirty on STs.... which increases the risk of injuries.

    9. FO Philosophy - Right now the Jets have as much talent among their starters as any team in the league. That is by design. The Jets are built to win NOW, but IMHO their margin of error is very thin, because your salary and roster are very top heavy. You have 2 LBs making top LB money, and another who will demand it. You also have those OTHER nasty resigning issues ahead AFTER this season.

    Your FO has sacrificed volume for shots at greatness in the draft process and has (overall) done well. However while most teams have drafted 14-20 picks over the last 2 years, (the Pats have drafted 24) the Jets have drafted only 7.

    When I first got into football as a HS assistant, one of my coaching mentors who had been in the game many years, explained to me that football is a game of numbers, and the team with deepest rosters will be the teams who consistently win. Nothing in my 15 years of coaching and 40 years of playing and observation has lessened the truth of this seemingly simple observation. So while this issue might not have have an effect on THIS season, it might on future Jet fortunes. But maybe that should be a separate discussion for another thread.

    So much for brevity I await the storm.....with anticipation

  2. #2
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    I don't like to type as much as you, but i don't disagree with much of what you have to say. I will say you have to think of the Jets D as a unit. The whole will work better than some of the parts.

    Sanchez will be the key to the season. We dont know how he will do. But he works harder than anyone

  3. #3
    Ken, nice post. Although I agree with some of your points, not all of them are correct. In fact most of them are incorrect. Remember this is just your opinion.

  4. #4
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    We have been pretty fortunate with injuries the past few years.

    [QUOTE]As one brave Jet fan asked recently "Can you name a single quality back up?" [/QUOTE]

    But this claim is a head-scratcher. We do have quality depth:

    [B]Cornerback[/B]
    Dwight Lowery (starting experience)
    Kyle Wilson

    [B]Safety[/B]
    Eric Smith (starting experience)

    [B]Linebacker[/B]
    Jason Taylor (not a bad 3rd down OLB pass rusher to have eh? ;))
    Jamal Westerman (has some promise, is learning to play all four LB positions)

    [B]Defensive line[/B]
    Sione Pouha (starting experience, really picked his game up a notch last season)

    [B]Wide Receiver[/B]
    As deep as any other receiving corps in the league

    Depth is really only a concern at offensive line, runningback if Greene were to get injured, which he did a few times last season, and maybe defensive line. But overall this years Jets team has solid depth.

  5. #5
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    Pats suck.:)

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3638808]...<snipped all useless qualifying remarks>

    1. The biggest issue the Jets face is DEPTH. As one brave Jet fan asked recently "Can you name a single quality back up?" Injuries are a fact of life and although the Jets had 2 critical injuries last season (Jenkins and Washington), overall the Jets have suffered RELATIVELY few over the last couple of years.[/quote]

    depth is the same issue for almost every NFL team. Jets have poorer depth in some positions (DL, OL) thanother teams and far better (CB than others). Depth concerns does not differentiate the Jets from other teams by any significant margin.

    [quote]2. The DL - if past history is any indication, you can pretty much count on the fact that your best DLman (Jenkins) is NOT going to be a factor in December. Your second best DLman will be 34 when the season starts. After that you have 2 guys who have proven to be decent in back up roles.

    The DL is kind of weak to start and very thin beyond that. It could be that the Jet will be run on this year. Its a bigger problem when you factor in that vs anyone's running game you will only have 10 guys you can count on to defend it.[/quote]

    no arguments. was disappointed that DL was not touched in the draft. pouha a good backup

    [quote]3. The LBs - Excellent first group of 4, but absolutely NO known quantities beyond that. ANY injury to an ANY LB will cause problems[/quote]

    like NE? LOL. Jets will be fine at LB even with an injury. One of the best units in the NFL. now with Jason Taylor.

    [quote]4. The DBs - I think we have established 2 key facts here. Revis is very good, and Cromartie is an exceptional athlete who has vastly UNDERPERFORMED for over 2 years. So while it looks like an upgrade during the underwear olympics of the OTAs, Jet fans can only HOPE that you don't get the CB that took SDs money the last 2 seasons[/quote]

    Cromartie? Jets v. SD? man-to-man vs. zone! case closed. Cromartie used incorrectly in SD. Not worried one iota. tremendous depth with Wilson and Lowery

    [quote]At S you have a midget and a ANOTHER guy who has troubles staying on the field. Whether its migraines or concussions, Poole DOES have this issue to overcome. An Lenard, as teams have a full off season to digest the Jets Defensive Schemes will find himself targeted more often by bigger WRs and TEs - I don't think that even Jet fans would consider S a strength of the team....and again there is that nagging issue of who backs them up.[/quote]

    Lowery maybe

    [quote]5. OL - This is seemingly the strength of the offense, but I can see 3 potential problems. a. Whether its Slauson or Ducasse, the Jets will open the season with a LG who has never started an NFL game. b. your RT will be 33 during this season, and has a lot of wear and tear on him. c. and again....who will back up any of these guys if someone, anyone goes down.[/quote]

    same depth issue faced by almost every team, so.... yawn. Either Slaussen or Ducasse, for all their inexperience, will be better at pass protection than Faneca. Faneca was an instrumental pulling guard in the run game, but a virtual turnstile at protection. Not worried there.

    [quote]6. RB - Green is a question mark only in wondering if he can stand up to the rigors of being the #1 RB and getting 250-350 carries/season. If he can then the Jets won't have a RB issue. If he can't then the linchpin of the Jets offense will be at serious risk. [/quote]

    LOL... you haven't been paying attention. 300 carries? nope. will be 60/40 or at most 65/35 but perhaps closer to 50/50 Greene/LT.

    [quote]7. QB - I have a problem with Jet fans who think that Sanchez's growth as a QB is a linear progression. That he will keep getting better game to game. I don't think it works that way. Just ask Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, about their 2nd year as a starting QB. It wasn't always pretty. For Example Brady's over all numbers improved in 2002, but he wasn't nearly as efficient or consistent as one would have expected after the success of his 1st year.

    Sometimes I get the feeling that Jet fans expect Sanchez to be able to carry the Jets offense like a mature Brady or Manning, where a better expectation would be to have him get his TD/INT ratio back to .500 this season.

    In 5 of the seven Jet losses in 2009, 5 of them came when Sanchez had to throw more than 25 passes, and after game 3, every time Sanchez threw 30+ passes the Jets lost.

    Again, I'm not sure what kind of career Sanchez will have. He could very well end up being the franchise QB every Jet fan hopes for, but this is about "expectations". I get the feeling that that most Jet fans have already made the leap that Sanchez IS the next Brady or Manning, and nothing but good will come when he has to throw the ball 35-45 times a game. And while he very well may BE the the next Brady, he STILL isn't going to be exempt from the QB learning curve.....which DOESN'T include a "linear progression". And sometimes unreasonable expectations can hurt a players' true progression.[/quote]

    longwinded just to state the obvious. He is a young sophomore QB who had limited college experience. It will be a bumpy ride. We all know that already sparky... We expect him to improve on the whole by a good margin. Of course it will be 2 steps forward, one step back from time-to-time. Anyone who expects otherwise is either a tad ignorant or not being completely honest.

    [quote]8. Special Teams - This year the Jets will go into the season with a subpar punter and a kicker who has already kicked himself out of one job. If the Jets want to have great special teams then Jet fans will have to expect some of those high priced starters are going to have to get their hands dirty on STs.... which increases the risk of injuries.[/quote]

    good points re: kicker and punter. A real question mark for the Jets. But as far as ST's go, I really like the return game options for punts and KOs.

    [quote]9. FO Philosophy - Right now the Jets have as much talent among their starters as any team in the league. That is by design. The Jets are built to win NOW, but IMHO their margin of error is very thin, because your salary and roster are very top heavy. You have 2 LBs making top LB money, and another who will demand it. You also have those OTHER nasty resigning issues ahead AFTER this season.

    Your FO has sacrificed volume for shots at greatness in the draft process and has (overall) done well. However while most teams have drafted 14-20 picks over the last 2 years, (the Pats have drafted 24) the Jets have drafted only 7.

    When I first got into football as a HS assistant, one of my coaching mentors who had been in the game many years, explained to me that football is a game of numbers, and the team with deepest rosters will be the teams who consistently win. Nothing in my 15 years of coaching and 40 years of playing and observation has lessened the truth of this seemingly simple observation. So while this issue might not have have an effect on THIS season, it might on future Jet fortunes. But maybe that should be a separate discussion for another thread.[/quote]

    all good points here. NE has been succesful for two reasons: 1. Tom Brady being a miracle pick in the 6th round and great depth elsewhere, where needed. Relatively few standout superstars otherwise. We'll have to see how it all pans out.

    [quote]So much for brevity I await the storm.....with anticipation[/QUOTE]

    don't be holding yer breath for too long. Your jersey may be blue, but we don't want your face to turn blue too.
    Last edited by Dcat; 07-03-2010 at 12:12 PM.

  7. #7
    They suck and continue to cheat.


    Brady's personal coach discusses injuries that Belichick denied
    Posted by Michael David Smith on July 3, 2010 9:42 AM ET

    At the end of the 2009 season, Charley Casserly of CBS reported that Patriots quarterback Tom Brady was playing with broken ribs, and Patriots coach Bill Belichick responded by lashing out at Casserly and asking, "Who's been wrong more than Charley Casserly?"

    As it turns out, the person who fills out the Patriots' injury report has been wrong more than Charley Casserly.

    Although Brady was listed on the official NFL Week 16 injury report as having only the same right shoulder injury that he's been listed as having on every official NFL injury report for years, Brady's personal throwing coach, Tom Martinez, has confirmed that Brady had broken ribs and a broken finger that were bothering him leading up to the Patriots' Week 16 game against the Jaguars.

    "He had a broken finger and three broken ribs," Martinez told ESPN.com. "He wasn't throwing well."

    Albert Breer of the Boston Globe writes that the news of Brady's broken ribs and broken finger was withheld because Brady didn't want to use his injuries as an excuse for poor play. Whatever the reason, teams aren't supposed to withhold injury information. And Belichick was wrong to attack Casserly with a lie.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3638808]
    1. The biggest issue the Jets face is DEPTH. As one brave Jet fan asked recently "Can you name a single quality back up?" Injuries are a fact of life and although the Jets had 2 critical injuries last season (Jenkins and Washington), overall the Jets have suffered RELATIVELY few over the last couple of years.[/quote]

    Every team has this issue. Every team thinks they have players who won't suck when plugged in. Our team is no different.

    I hate our depth in certain instances but we have a deep secondary, which is most important to the scheme.

    [quote]2. The DL - if past history is any indication, you can pretty much count on the fact that your best DLman (Jenkins) is NOT going to be a factor in December. Your second best DLman will be 34 when the season starts. After that you have 2 guys who have proven to be decent in back up roles. [/quote]

    Everyone swore up and down if Jenkins went down last season we wouldn't overcome it. It's proven. It's Rex's area of absolute expertise. He could put a walk in on the DL and I'd trust him with it.

    [quote]3. The LBs - Excellent first group of 4, but absolutely NO known quantities beyond that. ANY injury to an ANY LB will cause problems[/quote]

    LB's aren't often injured. Our LB group is among the top of the league.

    Can't concern yourself with injuries. They happen.

    [quote]4. The DBs - I think we have established 2 key facts here. Revis is very good, and Cromartie is an exceptional athlete who has vastly UNDERPERFORMED for over 2 years. So while it looks like an upgrade during the underwear olympics of the OTAs, Jet fans can only HOPE that you don't get the CB that took SDs money the last 2 seasons[/quote]

    Cromartie's fluid movement and speed impressed everybody at camp. Let's see if he can do it during game time.

    [quote]At S you have a midget and a ANOTHER guy who has troubles staying on the field. Whether its migraines or concussions, Poole DOES have this issue to overcome. An Lenard, as teams have a full off season to digest the Jets Defensive Schemes will find himself targeted more often by bigger WRs and TEs - I don't think that even Jet fans would consider S a strength of the team....and again there is that nagging issue of who backs them up.[/quote]

    You started off horrible. Calling Leonhard a midget. Pool's injuries have been misdiagnosed according to our team doctors, whom I'll trust far more than the Brown's organization.

    Keep in mind, Rex has been running this system for a long time. They haven't figured it out yet. This year is no different.

    [quote]5. OL - This is seemingly the strength of the offense, but I can see 3 potential problems. a. Whether its Slauson or Ducasse, the Jets will open the season with a LG who has never started an NFL game. b. your RT will be 33 during this season, and has a lot of wear and tear on him. c. and again....who will back up any of these guys if someone, anyone goes down.[/quote]

    Not many teams carry capable backups on their OL, especially when that line has three YOUNG and capable pro bowl talents on it.

    Did Woody look to be slowing down last year? I'm not worried. I said before I started that I wouldn't do this but your line is ancient in comparison to ours. As is your entire offense.

    [quote]6. RB - Green is a question mark only in wondering if he can stand up to the rigors of being the #1 RB and getting 250-350 carries/season. If he can then the Jets won't have a RB issue. If he can't then the linchpin of the Jets offense will be at serious risk.[/quote]

    Everything we have to go on ON THE FIELD tells us that Greene is the real deal. We'll see what happens as far as carries go. I trust Callahan and Schotty will get it done.

    [quote]7. QB - I have a problem with Jet fans who think that Sanchez's growth as a QB is a linear progression. That he will keep getting better game to game. I don't think it works that way. Just ask Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, about their 2nd year as a starting QB. It wasn't always pretty. For Example Brady's over all numbers improved in 2002, but he wasn't nearly as efficient or consistent as one would have expected after the success of his 1st year.

    Sometimes I get the feeling that Jet fans expect Sanchez to be able to carry the Jets offense like a mature Brady or Manning, where a better expectation would be to have him get his TD/INT ratio back to .500 this season.

    In 5 of the seven Jet losses in 2009, 5 of them came when Sanchez had to throw more than 25 passes, and after game 3, every time Sanchez threw 30+ passes the Jets lost.

    Again, I'm not sure what kind of career Sanchez will have. He could very well end up being the franchise QB every Jet fan hopes for, but this is about "expectations". I get the feeling that that most Jet fans have already made the leap that Sanchez IS the next Brady or Manning, and nothing but good will come when he has to throw the ball 35-45 times a game. And while he very well may BE the the next Brady, he STILL isn't going to be exempt from the QB learning curve.....which DOESN'T include a "linear progression". And sometimes unreasonable expectations can hurt a players' true progression.[/quote]

    Every player is different and there is no benchmark for a 2nd year QB as far as what to expect in terms from production.

    Not many of them get deep playoff experience in their first season.

    You can go on and on about the few horrid games he had but the fact of the matter is, he had a 2:1 ratio in the playoffs.

    [quote]8. Special Teams - This year the Jets will go into the season with a subpar punter and a kicker who has already kicked himself out of one job. If the Jets want to have great special teams then Jet fans will have to expect some of those high priced starters are going to have to get their hands dirty on STs.... which increases the risk of injuries.[/quote]

    Best ST coach in football. Brad Smith was injured the day Ted Ginn ran wild.

    Izzo is gone, thankfully......... But so is Wallace Wright. We'll see what happens.

    [quote]9. FO Philosophy - Right now the Jets have as much talent among their starters as any team in the league. That is by design. The Jets are built to win NOW, but IMHO their margin of error is very thin, because your salary and roster are very top heavy. You have 2 LBs making top LB money, and another who will demand it. You also have those OTHER nasty resigning issues ahead AFTER this season.[/quote]

    We understand what the front office as done but now they get to pick and choose what areas of the team they keep intact and what areas of the team they toy with and bring in new personnel on.

    They're in a great position, no matter which way you slice it.

    [quote]Your FO has sacrificed volume for shots at greatness in the draft process and has (overall) done well. However while most teams have drafted 14-20 picks over the last 2 years, (the Pats have drafted 24) the Jets have drafted only 7. [/QUOTE]


    How many of those 24 players are currently on the roster and how many of them actually have a legitimate chance of staying there?
    Last edited by Revi$_I$l@nd; 07-03-2010 at 12:15 PM.

  9. #9
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    1. In this NFL all teams have depth issues, its a undisputed fact and impossible to avoid. This is not the 49er's of the mid to late 80's or the Steel Curtain of the 70's. Depth, as a whole, is a major concern....agree.

    2. This notion that Jenkins is a non-factor in the late season is straight up wrong. He was injuried last season and is 34, those are facts. The DL is the least important position for this style of defense. You can have JAG's and succeed, if fact, with the salary cap in place, you can't afford pro-bowlers everywhere. You need size and bulk upfront in this defense and the Jets have both. They have a play-maker at the nose and even without that for mst of season last year, they were BY FAR the best defense.....disagree

    3. Harris and Scott injuries will be bad, Westerman/Taylor combo can account for a injury to Pace or Thomas and they can survive. Harris is the 2nd most important guy to this defense behind Revis and he will only get better since he is young and now has a year under his belt in this scheme....mostly disagree

    4. Revis takes the # 1, that leaves the #2 for Cro. A freakish athlete who played great when in a M2M scheme now comes back to M2M to gaurd #2 WR's? I'll take my chances that with that and Wilson being the Nickel and Pool/Lowery upgrade over the malcontent, the Jets secondary is top 3 of ANY unit (exp. LB's, RB's, ect...) in the NFL (QB is not a unit)....strongly disagree

    5. Slauson/DuCasse will have ProBowlers on both sides and maybe the best OL coach in the game, will there be growing pains? Probably, but not enough IMO to even be a discussion. Turner has prven to be able to be a viable step-in in case of injury really anywhere on the line, thats an advantage over most teams. Again, you can't be 2 deep, this is not 'Bama or USC here....disagree

    6. The Jets will be a more pass-happy offense, especially as the season progresses, but yes, Greene needs to stay healthy. LT is here to be a threat out of the backfield and spot Greene some carries, not start and carry the load, we all know that. MsKnight is raw and hopefully will be able to contribute to the offense but is a wildcard...agree

    7. Sanchez is young, and will continue to make mistakes and throw a pick here and there, but the fact remains he has continued to progress throughout the season and had 3 of his better games when it counted most. IMO, I see a guy who has the makeup mentally, physically, and the intangibles to be a leader of a SB winner. If someone doesn't see that right now, thats fine, I'll take my chances with what I've read and seen. The guy gets it and has the talent to back it up and will only get better....draw for now ;)

    7a. He doesn'y have to carry the load for the Jets, the defense and running game will be able to travel quite well and provide him with plenty of support from week to week.

    8. The Jets need to have a good special teams, sub-par teams need to have a great special teams, you know that Ken. Folk is a concern because of consistancy, he could flop....but if K is your biggest concern entering a season, you are loaded for bear. I don't get the hate for Weatherford, he is above-average in this league and hopefully his heart issues are a thing of the past.....disagree

    9. The FO is actuallu a strength of the organization. I have no worries that Tanny will find a way to put guys around the core that will give the Jets a shot at the SB for years to come. Rex was a great hire and guys want to come here and will do whatever it takes to win for him IMO. The draft has been amazing for the Jets, I'll take top rate quality over mediocre quanity anyday....strongly disagree

    The Jets have things that could derail their season, but other than K, most are health related, which are out of their control. I'll take the Jets roster over any other in the league right now, thats for this season and the future with the young stars they have. I'm not a homer, I have proven to anyone who reads my post to be a level-headed fan, so take it for whatever you will :)

  10. #10
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    Our biggest problem is the same problem that we had last year. We have nobody who commands a double team coming off the edge.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE][QUOTE=Buzzsaw;3638819]We have been pretty fortunate with injuries the past few years. [/QUOTE]

    Yes

    [QUOTE]But this claim is a head-scratcher. We do have quality depth:

    [B]Cornerback[/B]
    Dwight Lowery (starting experience)
    Kyle Wilson[/QUOTE]

    Lowery is like me citing Wilhite as a quality CB (though he may be better as a inside defender) just because he started several games. And for the last few years I have considered the 5th DB as a starter.

    Sirius had Pepper Johnson on the other day and they started talking about how complex personel packages are now. He stated he thought the with all those packages the Pats had 17 defensive starters, and it depended on THAT weeks game plan who would get the most snaps.

    The fact is that in this era of specialization very few players on D play more than 70% of the snaps anymore. One of the big questions of the Wilfork resigning was paying top money to a guy who is only on the field 50-60% of the defensive snaps,

    I would consider Wilson as a starter, even if he ends up being the nickel back, just as I think McCourty will end up being one. Though most Pats fans think he will end up, like Wilson, as the nickelback, I think he will eventually wind up as one of the outside CBs. Those 2 guys are going to spend the next 6 years being compared. It will be interesting

    [QUOTE][B]Safety[/B]
    Eric Smith (starting experience)
    [/QUOTE]

    Now, I'm only going by what I hear here, but the term quality back up and Eric Smith have rarely found their way into the same sentence, even if he has started several games.
    [B]Linebacker[/B]

    [QUOTE]Jason Taylor (not a bad 3rd down OLB pass rusher to have eh? ;))
    Jamal Westerman (has some promise, is learning to play all four LB positions)[/QUOTE]

    Westerman is like me citing Sean Crabel as being a quality back up, and he's been on IR for the last to seasons. Taylor IS a quality back/situational rusher up at LB. I just forgot about him

    [B]Defensive line[/B]
    Sione Pouha (starting experience, really picked his game up a notch last season)

    [B]Wide Receiver[/B]
    As deep as any other receiving corps in the league

    DEEP? I'm afraid not. Holmes, Edwards and Cotch are 3 starters (and again, the way the game is played your slot guy has to be considered a starter, since most teams go 3 wide so often) who can be considered as good as anyone's, but beyond that ....Clowney and Smith are at best Jags. Personally I'd rather have Holt and Patten, and only one of those guys I'd consider a quality WR back up. (Holt)

    [QUOTE]Depth is really only a concern at offensive line, runningback if Greene were to get injured, which he did a few times last season, and maybe defensive line. But overall this years Jets team has solid depth.[/QUOTE]

    Your Depth problems are serious on BOTH the OL and DL and tell me Buzz how are the good teams usually built.....from the trenches out. Lots of front line skill players on the Jets, but as for the 'big guys' doing the heavy lifting..... not so much.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3638808]...Ok, so the title is a little inflammatory. But because its sooooo slow, and I don't think I can read another "Revis Christ" thread, I thought I'd get back to some real football talk.

    Assumptions and ground rules:

    1. I fully acknowledge that the Jets look to be one of the favorites in the AFC. No question that they are one of the media's favorites this off season.

    2. I also acknowledge that the Pats have "holes" as well (as does every other team). So don't reply to this thread with "The Pats have holes too." That's a perfectly good topic for a separate thread, and I will reply when it happens.

    Appropriately this thread is about the Jets....and areas of concern they have going into this season. Feel free to rebut them, but please try and use the same logic that I am attempting to use in making my case. I am aware that there is another side and opposing views....and I'm interesting to hear them.

    3. In the interest of brevity I won't go into my usual long winded justifications. (I'll try at least ) I'll just make the statement and explain why in more detail as each point is rebutted.

    4. JMHO

    1. The biggest issue the Jets face is DEPTH. As one brave Jet fan asked recently "Can you name a single quality back up?" Injuries are a fact of life and although the Jets had 2 critical injuries last season (Jenkins and Washington), overall the Jets have suffered RELATIVELY few over the last couple of years.

    2. The DL - if past history is any indication, you can pretty much count on the fact that your best DLman (Jenkins) is NOT going to be a factor in December. Your second best DLman will be 34 when the season starts. After that you have 2 guys who have proven to be decent in back up roles.

    The DL is kind of weak to start and very thin beyond that. It could be that the Jet will be run on this year. Its a bigger problem when you factor in that vs anyone's running game you will only have 10 guys you can count on to defend it.

    3. The LBs - Excellent first group of 4, but absolutely NO known quantities beyond that. ANY injury to an ANY LB will cause problems

    4. The DBs - I think we have established 2 key facts here. Revis is very good, and Cromartie is an exceptional athlete who has vastly UNDERPERFORMED for over 2 years. So while it looks like an upgrade during the underwear olympics of the OTAs, Jet fans can only HOPE that you don't get the CB that took SDs money the last 2 seasons

    At S you have a midget and a ANOTHER guy who has troubles staying on the field. Whether its migraines or concussions, Poole DOES have this issue to overcome. An Lenard, as teams have a full off season to digest the Jets Defensive Schemes will find himself targeted more often by bigger WRs and TEs - I don't think that even Jet fans would consider S a strength of the team....and again there is that nagging issue of who backs them up.

    5. OL - This is seemingly the strength of the offense, but I can see 3 potential problems. a. Whether its Slauson or Ducasse, the Jets will open the season with a LG who has never started an NFL game. b. your RT will be 33 during this season, and has a lot of wear and tear on him. c. and again....who will back up any of these guys if someone, anyone goes down.

    6. RB - Green is a question mark only in wondering if he can stand up to the rigors of being the #1 RB and getting 250-350 carries/season. If he can then the Jets won't have a RB issue. If he can't then the linchpin of the Jets offense will be at serious risk.

    7. QB - I have a problem with Jet fans who think that Sanchez's growth as a QB is a linear progression. That he will keep getting better game to game. I don't think it works that way. Just ask Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, about their 2nd year as a starting QB. It wasn't always pretty. For Example Brady's over all numbers improved in 2002, but he wasn't nearly as efficient or consistent as one would have expected after the success of his 1st year.

    Sometimes I get the feeling that Jet fans expect Sanchez to be able to carry the Jets offense like a mature Brady or Manning, where a better expectation would be to have him get his TD/INT ratio back to .500 this season.

    In 5 of the seven Jet losses in 2009, 5 of them came when Sanchez had to throw more than 25 passes, and after game 3, every time Sanchez threw 30+ passes the Jets lost.

    Again, I'm not sure what kind of career Sanchez will have. He could very well end up being the franchise QB every Jet fan hopes for, but this is about "expectations". I get the feeling that that most Jet fans have already made the leap that Sanchez IS the next Brady or Manning, and nothing but good will come when he has to throw the ball 35-45 times a game. And while he very well may BE the the next Brady, he STILL isn't going to be exempt from the QB learning curve.....which DOESN'T include a "linear progression". And sometimes unreasonable expectations can hurt a players' true progression.

    8. Special Teams - This year the Jets will go into the season with a subpar punter and a kicker who has already kicked himself out of one job. If the Jets want to have great special teams then Jet fans will have to expect some of those high priced starters are going to have to get their hands dirty on STs.... which increases the risk of injuries.

    9. FO Philosophy - Right now the Jets have as much talent among their starters as any team in the league. That is by design. The Jets are built to win NOW, but IMHO their margin of error is very thin, because your salary and roster are very top heavy. You have 2 LBs making top LB money, and another who will demand it. You also have those OTHER nasty resigning issues ahead AFTER this season.

    Your FO has sacrificed volume for shots at greatness in the draft process and has (overall) done well. However while most teams have drafted 14-20 picks over the last 2 years, (the Pats have drafted 24) the Jets have drafted only 7.

    When I first got into football as a HS assistant, one of my coaching mentors who had been in the game many years, explained to me that football is a game of numbers, and the team with deepest rosters will be the teams who consistently win. Nothing in my 15 years of coaching and 40 years of playing and observation has lessened the truth of this seemingly simple observation. So while this issue might not have have an effect on THIS season, it might on future Jet fortunes. But maybe that should be a separate discussion for another thread.

    So much for brevity I await the storm.....with anticipation[/QUOTE]

    Confronting all of your points, I'll take one by one in order:

    (1) The Jets DO have issues with depth. That has been their mantra for many years now. They have gotten very lucky when it come to injuries, but this team IS NOT built to win a war of attrition. The season may outlast the Jets before any team outlasts the Jets.

    (2) The Jets got run last season also after Jenk went down. It took a great coaching effort by Rex to get UDFA Mike Devito and Sione Pouha to plug the hole. And, yes, I'm not sure the Jets have ANY method down pat that will keep Jenkins healthy for the stretch run. All indication would tell you, he's just a brittle player. When he's in there, he's the very best in the league hands down. Wilfork is a very distant second.

    All told, yes, this group isn't all that talented as starters go, but they have GREAT depth as evidenced by what Mike Devito and Sione Pouha were able to do just last season after big Jenk went down.

    (3) You obviously don't know much about the Jets linebackers, do you?:rolleyes:

    They have decent depth and can alternate different LB's for different given situations. Jason Taylor can play more than just passing situations, so there's quality depth without even looking that hard.

    (4) You're grasping at straws about the secondary. This is undoubtedly the strongest unit the Jets have and probably the strongest in the league. When are you going to get it through thick skull, Ken, that Cro sucked in SD because they had him playing ZONE and not man, which is where Cro's strength lies? I'm a little concerned about what Poole brings to the table, but he was still a better option than Kerry Rhodes. Getting rid of Kerry was addition by subtraction. Eric Smith provides provides quality depth with starting experience in the past.

    (5) OL is lacking in the depth department. That been a known and constant for years. However, EVERY team goes into a season with a rookie starting along the OL. It's a constant in the NFL. The Jets also have the very best OL coach in the league today. So my belief is although he (Ducasse) may trip up early in the season, he'll be rock solid by seasons end. Although Woody is 33 now, he's shown NO indication of slowing down. I'll only believe he's slowing down when I see it for myself.

    (6) You have every reason to question if Greene can handle a number 1 RB role. However, the Jets still have a HOF RB backing him up. That's about the best insurance policy any team can have.

    (7) Mark Sanchez's development IS a linear equation and it also is in the case of all of the QB's you mention. Tom Brady had a separated shoulder in his second season, so you can't use him in this argument. Drew Brees's light never really turned on until season 3 for him. He was god awful BOTH in year 1 and year 2. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and Ben Roethlisberger ALL became better QB's in year 2, it's just that the numbers do not show it. Defenses learned how to maximize their defense against those QB's and the QB's learned how to do something different that the defense wasn't counting on. Thereby making them better QB's in the long term.

    Also, for all of the bad decisions Sanchez made throwing the ball last season, he's STILL the best QB the Jets have. If the Jets lost Sanchez, I believe the Jets would be lost without him. I sh$T on Sanchez all the time. I think his play stinks, but how much WORSE would we get with Kellen Clemens? I shutter to think. But you're right, if Sanchez could just get his TD/INT ratio back to .500 he would be a MUCH better QB even when the numbers wouldn't show it. Sometimes it's about reading between the lines.

    (8) Kicker and Punter are legitimate concerns. I do believe the Jets will get an experienced veteran in TC after the final 4 sanctions are lifted.

    (9) NONSENSE. Mike Tannenbaum is the best capologist in the league. He's also proven to be a GREAT GM. The Jets will need to be top heavy for a while to resign the core 4, but they will make it through it fine. The margin of error for any team is always very thin. Would the Patsies have won 3 SB's if they didn't keep Tom Brady healthy and had everyone's playbook?:rolleyes: The Jets approach to drafting players has proven to be very sound. Quality over quantity WORKS. Quantity clearly DOESN'T work as evidenced by BB's very bad drafting the last 4 or so years. If you're draft is a little lacking due to trading up too much, you can always use FA to get some needed depth.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE]1. The biggest issue the Jets face is DEPTH. As one brave Jet fan asked recently "Can you name a single quality back up?" Injuries are a fact of life and although the Jets had 2 critical injuries last season (Jenkins and Washington), overall the Jets have suffered RELATIVELY few over the last couple of years.[/QUOTE]

    Depth MAY be a problem. I dont say may as in there may be an injury, but rather our backups may or may not step up when needed. I believe that the Jets coaching staff does a great enough job coaching that the backups will be just as prepared as the starters (see Greene and Pouha).

    If depth i our greatest concern I am happy. If there are no injuries we are air tight. If there are some injuries then the best prepared team will win, us or not.

    [QUOTE]2. The DL - if past history is any indication, you can pretty much count on the fact that your best DLman (Jenkins) is NOT going to be a factor in December. Your second best DLman will be 34 when the season starts. After that you have 2 guys who have proven to be decent in back up roles.

    The DL is kind of weak to start and very thin beyond that. It could be that the Jet will be run on this year. Its a bigger problem when you factor in that vs anyone's running game you will only have 10 guys you can count on to defend it.[/QUOTE]

    This is a really the same point as number one above, depth, and should not have its own "point" as you claim. However, to suggest the DL as it is is kind of weak to start is garbage. Our DL is just fine, combine that with the rest of the D package and they are well above just fine.

    [QUOTE]3. The LBs - Excellent first group of 4, but absolutely NO known quantities beyond that. ANY injury to an ANY LB will cause problems[/QUOTE]

    Once again this is the same point as number 1, so yeah already addressed.

    [QUOTE]4. The DBs - I think we have established 2 key facts here. Revis is very good, and Cromartie is an exceptional athlete who has vastly UNDERPERFORMED for over 2 years. So while it looks like an upgrade during the underwear olympics of the OTAs, Jet fans can only HOPE that you don't get the CB that took SDs money the last 2 seasons[/QUOTE]

    Kind of a loaded pint right? You say the two DB's are basically exceptional athletes, then you say we better hope they play as expected. That's like saying the steak I am going to have for dinner tonight looks fricken amazing, but I better hope it tastes that good...

    [QUOTE]At S you have a midget and a ANOTHER guy who has troubles staying on the field. Whether its migraines or concussions, Poole DOES have this issue to overcome. An Lenard, as teams have a full off season to digest the Jets Defensive Schemes will find himself targeted more often by bigger WRs and TEs - I don't think that even Jet fans would consider S a strength of the team....and again there is that nagging issue of who backs them up.[/QUOTE]

    Other than the depth concern (again see #1) I agree with you here. The safety position is absolutely our week point for the D. I am not too concerned though, we have, at least on paper talent there. Its just a matter of trusting Rex will prepare them appropriately, which I do trust.

    [QUOTE]5. OL - This is seemingly the strength of the offense, but I can see 3 potential problems. a. Whether its Slauson or Ducasse, the Jets will open the season with a LG who has never started an NFL game. b. your RT will be 33 during this season, and has a lot of wear and tear on him. c. and again....who will back up any of these guys if someone, anyone goes down.[/QUOTE]

    Is it just me or is there a theme here? Depth again huh? ow many points are you going to make about our "backups" not being as worthy as the starters? OL is not a concern here to me at all. To complain that one of the 5 positions is too young and fresh, but then in the same breath complain that "33" is too old is kind of like complaining that there is too much steak sauce on my big juicy cut of steak. And RT is not RB 33 is not too old.

    [QUOTE]6. RB - Green is a question mark only in wondering if he can stand up to the rigors of being the #1 RB and getting 250-350 carries/season. If he can then the Jets won't have a RB issue. If he can't then the linchpin of the Jets offense will be at serious risk.[/QUOTE]

    As has been speculated and reported regularly Green will likely not get that number of carries. Yes he is going to be the starter, but we have several very capable backs with him to share the load. The only way I see Green getting that number of carries is if his average and strength is so outstanding that the coaches would be foolish not to give him more carries.

    [QUOTE]7. QB - I have a problem with Jet fans who think that Sanchez's growth as a QB is a linear progression. That he will keep getting better game to game. I don't think it works that way. Just ask Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, about their 2nd year as a starting QB. It wasn't always pretty. For Example Brady's over all numbers improved in 2002, but he wasn't nearly as efficient or consistent as one would have expected after the success of his 1st year.

    Sometimes I get the feeling that Jet fans expect Sanchez to be able to carry the Jets offense like a mature Brady or Manning, where a better expectation would be to have him get his TD/INT ratio back to .500 this season.

    In 5 of the seven Jet losses in 2009, 5 of them came when Sanchez had to throw more than 25 passes, and after game 3, every time Sanchez threw 30+ passes the Jets lost.

    Again, I'm not sure what kind of career Sanchez will have. He could very well end up being the franchise QB every Jet fan hopes for, but this is about "expectations". I get the feeling that that most Jet fans have already made the leap that Sanchez IS the next Brady or Manning, and nothing but good will come when he has to throw the ball 35-45 times a game. And while he very well may BE the the next Brady, he STILL isn't going to be exempt from the QB learning curve.....which DOESN'T include a "linear progression". And sometimes unreasonable expectations can hurt a players' true progression.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with your points here to a large extent. No one can predict how a second year QB will perform. Everyone knows about the sophomore slump. BUT we all also know that QB's do indeed get better as their career matures. There is not one great QB in the history of NFL that had their greatest season as their first season. SO looking with that logic we have a coin toss here. Either Sanchez gets better (as most would assume) or doesn't... Regarding the sophomore issue, I am not concerned. See Sanchez really doesn't have a lot of pressure. He doesn't need to win us the games, he just needs to perform. Remove tat knd of pressure from a young QB and I don't see why one would predict a worse season than last.

    [QUOTE]8. Special Teams - This year the Jets will go into the season with a subpar punter and a kicker who has already kicked himself out of one job. If the Jets want to have great special teams then Jet fans will have to expect some of those high priced starters are going to have to get their hands dirty on STs.... which increases the risk of injuries.[/QUOTE]

    ST is a tricky issue, but one that is most easily correct during Training camp or through wavers. Not too worried here, especially with our coaching staff.

    [QUOTE]9. FO Philosophy - Right now the Jets have as much talent among their starters as any team in the league. That is by design. The Jets are built to win NOW, but IMHO their margin of error is very thin, because your salary and roster are very top heavy. You have 2 LBs making top LB money, and another who will demand it. You also have those OTHER nasty resigning issues ahead AFTER this season.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah your right, I am not looking forward to next off season. We certainly have lofted up several loaded guns, but hey thats not new information either and should not affect this season. You never know, with the high flying energy and preperation the coaching staff purs out, the youngsters on this team may mature enough to make this a non issue.

    [QUOTE]Your FO has sacrificed volume for shots at greatness in the draft process and has (overall) done well. However while most teams have drafted 14-20 picks over the last 2 years, (the Pats have drafted 24) the Jets have drafted only 7.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah so the Jets are big fans of loading up barrel of crap. They go for quality versus quantity. Personally I think our FO has done a great job at mixing veteran talent and leadership with athletic newbies. With the exception of a few potential misses, our FO has done a fantastic job at drafts in the past.

    [QUOTE]When I first got into football as a HS assistant, one of my coaching mentors who had been in the game many years, explained to me that football is a game of numbers, and the team with deepest rosters will be the teams who consistently win. Nothing in my 15 years of coaching and 40 years of playing and observation has lessened the truth of this seemingly simple observation. So while this issue might not have have an effect on THIS season, it might on future Jet fortunes. But maybe that should be a separate discussion for another thread.

    So much for brevity I await the storm.....with anticipation [/QUOTE]

    Once again you bring us back to your general them DEPTH. I dont know where you coached, but I doubt anyone in this world expects a professional football team to have the same talent of backups as they have starters. Its a silly argument really. Yeah so what there is a gamble going on with depth. Win with who we have or hope the backups step up of the starters cant. I dont see a flaw in this philosophy.

  14. #14
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    l[QUOTE]ike NE? LOL. Jets will be fine at LB even with an injury. One of the best units in the NFL. now with Jason Taylor.[/QUOTE]

    I wish, but as I said to Buzz, I missed Taylor. He is a quality, proven 3rd guy at OLB


    [QUOTE]
    Cromartie? Jets v. SD? man-to-man vs. zone! case closed. Cromartie used incorrectly in SD. Not worried one iota. tremendous depth with Wilson and Lowery[/QUOTE]

    Can't agree. The case is very much OPEN. ;) Do you really think that coaches at that level are THAT stupid or stubborn. That they'd (assuming you are right) take a guy you contend would be an all pro playing man to man and then MAKE him play zone where he's proven to be a JAG. I can't believe that they'd do it. bottom line, there is a lot more to it than simply he was miscast in SD.......IMHO

    [QUOTE]same depth issue faced by almost every team, so.... yawn. Either Slaussen or Ducasse, for all their inexperience, will be better at pass protection than Faneca. Faneca was an instrumental pulling guard in the run game, but a virtual turnstile at protection. Not worried there.[/QUOTE]

    I don't know how you can say that. Faneca was surely on the downside, but to ASSUME that either Ducasse or Slausen will be "better at pass protection than Faneca" is ludicrous....even for a Jet fan.

    [QUOTE]LOL... you haven't been paying attention. 300 carries? nope. will be 60/40 or at most 65/35 but perhaps closer to 50/50 Greene/LT.
    [/QUOTE]

    You better hope not. LT is TOAST. You can rationalize it all you want, but when a RB has taken THAT much abuse (and he goes into the season with more carries than ANYONE....BY FAR) his productivity goes down. All the "want to" isn't going to change that.


    l[QUOTE]ongwinded just to state the obvious. He is a young sophomore QB who had limited college experience. It will be a bumpy ride. We all know that already sparky... We expect him to improve on the whole by a good margin. Of course it will be 2 steps forward, one step back from time-to-time. Anyone who expects otherwise is either a tad ignorant or not being completely honest.
    [/QUOTE]

    Fair enough, and pretty much on the money, but that's NOT what I am reading most of the time here. You view SHOULD be the prevailing view....but I don't think it is.

    [QUOTE]all good points here. NE has been succesful for two reasons: 1. Tom Brady being a miracle pick in the 6th round and great depth elsewhere, where needed. Relatively few standout superstars otherwise. We'll have to see how it all pans out.[/QUOTE]

    No questioning Brady's impact, but in the great "is it Brady or BB" debate the Pats HAVE had a year without Brady and it STILL managed an 11 win season with a QB who hadn't started a football game since HS. Do you know how many 11 win regular season the jets have had in their ENTIRE history, IIRC.... 2. So its more than Brady that has made the Pats successful. Its how they have built their teams from top to bottom. It has allowed them to win 2 superbowls in years when they LED the league in starters lost to injuries (2003-4)

  15. #15
    This is so cute but you can just go to cheatriotfans.com and read Ken's homeric musings.

  16. #16
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    Do you post like this on Julia Childs or Rachel Ray's web site too????

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3638844]
    Your Depth problems are serious on BOTH the OL and DL and tell me Buzz how are the good teams usually built.....from the trenches out. Lots of front line skill players on the Jets, but as for the 'big guys' doing the heavy lifting..... not so much.[/QUOTE]

    Yes on the offensive line, no on defensive line.

    An injury to Mangold or D'Brick would be devastating. Losing Moore or Woody would suck, but could be overcome. We still have the best blocking FB in the league with Tony Richardson and Tomlinson is a very good pass blocker.

    As far as defensive line, we did have the #1 defense last season with a 3 man front of Marques Douglas, Sione Pouha and Shaun Ellis. I'm not concerned about depth here. And Rex's scheme doesn't rely on the defensive line like other defenses do, he puts his defensive backs in man coverage and uses crazy alignments and blitzes to pressure the QB.

  18. #18
    i know you said not to but i'll do it anyway. what about the patsie holes? the point is that every team just about has the same amount of talent due to the quest for parity and it's all about finding the way the players can fit in to make it all work. sure a guy like revis can cover his side extremely well so the opposition need only throw to the other side.

    but what you are calling depth or lack thereof is a bit misleading. the jets do have depth at all positions it's just that the guys who are being replaced are very good players. no team can have all pros 2 or 3 deep.

    so while i think your analysis is sound it is very general and can be applied to just about any other team in the league.

    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3638808]...Ok, so the title is a little inflammatory. But because its sooooo slow, and I don't think I can read another "Revis Christ" thread, I thought I'd get back to some real football talk.

    Assumptions and ground rules:

    1. I fully acknowledge that the Jets look to be one of the favorites in the AFC. No question that they are one of the media's favorites this off season.

    2. I also acknowledge that the Pats have "holes" as well (as does every other team). So don't reply to this thread with "The Pats have holes too." That's a perfectly good topic for a separate thread, and I will reply when it happens.

    Appropriately this thread is about the Jets....and areas of concern they have going into this season. Feel free to rebut them, but please try and use the same logic that I am attempting to use in making my case. I am aware that there is another side and opposing views....and I'm interesting to hear them.

    3. In the interest of brevity I won't go into my usual long winded justifications. (I'll try at least ) I'll just make the statement and explain why in more detail as each point is rebutted.

    4. JMHO

    1. The biggest issue the Jets face is DEPTH. As one brave Jet fan asked recently "Can you name a single quality back up?" Injuries are a fact of life and although the Jets had 2 critical injuries last season (Jenkins and Washington), overall the Jets have suffered RELATIVELY few over the last couple of years.

    2. The DL - if past history is any indication, you can pretty much count on the fact that your best DLman (Jenkins) is NOT going to be a factor in December. Your second best DLman will be 34 when the season starts. After that you have 2 guys who have proven to be decent in back up roles.

    The DL is kind of weak to start and very thin beyond that. It could be that the Jet will be run on this year. Its a bigger problem when you factor in that vs anyone's running game you will only have 10 guys you can count on to defend it.

    3. The LBs - Excellent first group of 4, but absolutely NO known quantities beyond that. ANY injury to an ANY LB will cause problems

    4. The DBs - I think we have established 2 key facts here. Revis is very good, and Cromartie is an exceptional athlete who has vastly UNDERPERFORMED for over 2 years. So while it looks like an upgrade during the underwear olympics of the OTAs, Jet fans can only HOPE that you don't get the CB that took SDs money the last 2 seasons

    At S you have a midget and a ANOTHER guy who has troubles staying on the field. Whether its migraines or concussions, Poole DOES have this issue to overcome. An Lenard, as teams have a full off season to digest the Jets Defensive Schemes will find himself targeted more often by bigger WRs and TEs - I don't think that even Jet fans would consider S a strength of the team....and again there is that nagging issue of who backs them up.

    5. OL - This is seemingly the strength of the offense, but I can see 3 potential problems. a. Whether its Slauson or Ducasse, the Jets will open the season with a LG who has never started an NFL game. b. your RT will be 33 during this season, and has a lot of wear and tear on him. c. and again....who will back up any of these guys if someone, anyone goes down.

    6. RB - Green is a question mark only in wondering if he can stand up to the rigors of being the #1 RB and getting 250-350 carries/season. If he can then the Jets won't have a RB issue. If he can't then the linchpin of the Jets offense will be at serious risk.

    7. QB - I have a problem with Jet fans who think that Sanchez's growth as a QB is a linear progression. That he will keep getting better game to game. I don't think it works that way. Just ask Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, about their 2nd year as a starting QB. It wasn't always pretty. For Example Brady's over all numbers improved in 2002, but he wasn't nearly as efficient or consistent as one would have expected after the success of his 1st year.

    Sometimes I get the feeling that Jet fans expect Sanchez to be able to carry the Jets offense like a mature Brady or Manning, where a better expectation would be to have him get his TD/INT ratio back to .500 this season.

    In 5 of the seven Jet losses in 2009, 5 of them came when Sanchez had to throw more than 25 passes, and after game 3, every time Sanchez threw 30+ passes the Jets lost.

    Again, I'm not sure what kind of career Sanchez will have. He could very well end up being the franchise QB every Jet fan hopes for, but this is about "expectations". I get the feeling that that most Jet fans have already made the leap that Sanchez IS the next Brady or Manning, and nothing but good will come when he has to throw the ball 35-45 times a game. And while he very well may BE the the next Brady, he STILL isn't going to be exempt from the QB learning curve.....which DOESN'T include a "linear progression". And sometimes unreasonable expectations can hurt a players' true progression.

    8. Special Teams - This year the Jets will go into the season with a subpar punter and a kicker who has already kicked himself out of one job. If the Jets want to have great special teams then Jet fans will have to expect some of those high priced starters are going to have to get their hands dirty on STs.... which increases the risk of injuries.

    9. FO Philosophy - Right now the Jets have as much talent among their starters as any team in the league. That is by design. The Jets are built to win NOW, but IMHO their margin of error is very thin, because your salary and roster are very top heavy. You have 2 LBs making top LB money, and another who will demand it. You also have those OTHER nasty resigning issues ahead AFTER this season.

    Your FO has sacrificed volume for shots at greatness in the draft process and has (overall) done well. However while most teams have drafted 14-20 picks over the last 2 years, (the Pats have drafted 24) the Jets have drafted only 7.

    When I first got into football as a HS assistant, one of my coaching mentors who had been in the game many years, explained to me that football is a game of numbers, and the team with deepest rosters will be the teams who consistently win. Nothing in my 15 years of coaching and 40 years of playing and observation has lessened the truth of this seemingly simple observation. So while this issue might not have have an effect on THIS season, it might on future Jet fortunes. But maybe that should be a separate discussion for another thread.

    So much for brevity I await the storm.....with anticipation[/QUOTE]

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE]Everyone swore up and down if Jenkins went down last season we wouldn't overcome it. It's proven. It's Rex's area of absolute expertise. He could put a walk in on the DL and I'd trust him with it. [/QUOTE]

    But things are different now. Every team (especially within the division) has seen the schemes now (twice within the division) and in the Pats case, for example the 2nd time around produced a radically different result.

    In some respects, playing a system for the 2nd year will improve certain areas (especially communications), but it also allows your opponents to break down its nuances and find its weaknesses or great match ups.

    IMHO the greatest defense in NFL history was the 85 Bears, but within 2 years of having the best Defense in NFL history, they were out of the playoffs. Over the years teams deciphered Ryan's "code" and by 1995 only the Titans ran it as a basic D. Now being one of the few teams (I think the Titans and Ravens use it too) using some of those 4-6 principals within a 3-4 alignment is a great advantage when you play a team you see only once every few years, but a lot less so for teams within the divisions who get to see it on a regular basis.

    [QUOTE]
    LB's aren't often injured. Our LB group is among the top of the league.
    [/QUOTE]

    Tell that to the rest of the league. or in 2008 when the Pats lost AThomas and JSeau and Jerard Mayo to injuries
    [QUOTE]Can't concern yourself with injuries. They happen. [/QUOTE]

    You can't "concern" yourself with injuries, because like you say, they do happen, but you do have to plan for them, and that means having bodies ready

    [QUOTE]Cromartie's fluid movement and speed impressed everybody at camp. Let's see if he can do it during game time. [/QUOTE]

    AWWWW CMON RI, don't tell me you are one of those guys who are impressed by the underwear olympics of the OTAs. If that were the case then Chad Jackson is going to the HOF, because he was the most impressive guy at the OTAs HIS rookie year, and within 3 years he was gone. Cromartie has been avoiding contact for the last 2 years. THAT's on the record, and how smooth he looking in his underwear isn't a factor.

    [QUOTE]You started off horrible. Calling Leonhard a midget. Pool's injuries have been misdiagnosed according to our team doctors, whom I'll trust far more than the Brown's organization.
    [/QUOTE]

    Well only time will tell on that score, but the fact Leonard is short is a reality, and so is the fact that teams will take advantage of it.

    [QUOTE]Keep in mind, Rex has been running this system for a long time. They haven't figured it out yet. This year is no different. [/QUOTE]

    Really, how'd that work out in games like the 2nd Pats game or the 2nd half of the AFCCG - Once again the Jets catch a break and get the pats early in the season, because, as last year proved, the more BB has a chance to look at a team, the better his offense becomes the 2nd time around

    [QUOTE]
    Not many teams carry capable backups on their OL, especially when that line has three YOUNG and capable pro bowl talents on it. [/QUOTE]

    THREE?????? is Ducasse already a probowler :rolleyes: Well maybe the Pats are different or circumstances have forced them to be different. The Pats (who have 3 probowl OLmen already on the roster...not that that means much) Have SEVERAL backups who have not only started games, but played well. For example if Logan Mankins is traded or doesn't play, then, as of now, the Pats will move last year's former starting RT Nick Kazcur to LG. So in comparison to the Jets, the Pats can start a PROVEN NFL OLman in that position, while the Jets will be starting someone entirely NEW.

    [QUOTE]Did Woody look to be slowing down last year? I'm not worried. I said before I started that I wouldn't do this but your line is ancient in comparison to ours. As is your entire offense.[/QUOTE]

    Actually yes, at least according to some of the things I read here. And again our OL isn't in question....and your facts are again wrong. NONE of the Pats OLmen have been in the league as long as Woody. In fact Woody has 2 years on the oldest pat player.

    [QUOTE]Everything we have to go on ON THE FIELD tells us that Greene is the real deal. We'll see what happens as far as carries go. I trust Callahan and Schotty will get it done.[/QUOTE]

    Well faith is a good thing.....ask any Catholic. But all I have stated is that until he actually carries that load, you DON'T know.....and it IS, at that point, all about faith. ;)

    [QUOTE]You can go on and on about the few horrid games he had but the fact of the matter is, he had a 2:1 ratio in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

    Nice manipulation of stats, RI, but what is going to happen when he's asked to throw the ball more than 30 times to win a game and NOT like in the playoffs when he was asked to throw the ball ONLY 18, 23 time respectively in the first 2 games, and btw- what happened to the Jets when he had to throw the ball 30 times.....THEY LOST.

    [QUOTE]I understand what the front office as done but now they get to pick and choose what areas of the team they keep intact and what areas of the team they toy with and bring in new personnel on.

    They're in a great position, no matter which way you slice it. [/QUOTE]

    That makes no sense. The Pats have 24 chances to find productive players, and the Jets have 7. Which team is likely to have more depth :rolleyes: Unless the Jets are going to lead the league in adding FAs, every year. they are going to be at a distinct disadvantage to teams that have more than the normal 7 picks per year.

    [QUOTE]How many of those 24 players are currently on the roster and how many of them actually have a legitimate chance of staying there?[/QUOTE]

    Good question but I can only answer part of it, since this year's rookies haven't been to a training camp but this is how last year's picks did.

    Chung - S great on special teams, showed flashes at S, and looks to be the starter this season

    Volmer OT - Looked like the best OT the Pats have had in this era in a few spot starts last season, and looks like he will start at RT this season

    Butler CB - A few starts last season and got a lot of playing time in packages. Seems like he will start at LCB - (though personally I would rather have him in the slot)

    Brace DT - Very little playing time and now a question mark

    Tate - proported first round talent, dropped to 3rd because of injury. Showed brief flashes when he came off of PUP, but quickly went back on IR - This season my hopes are to have him shine as a returner and back up WR

    McKenzie - ILB - really impressed at the OTAs (lol) then got IRed when he got hurt at the last practices - In the mix in the ILB rotation

    Orenburger OG - saw some play as an injury replacement - back up G

    Bussey OL - Went on the IR early

    Ingram LS - Starting Long snapper

    Pryor - Started several games and was in the DL rotation last season - but will have a tougher time getting reps this season because of better competition.

    Edelman - WR - IMHO did an amazing job given that he never played WR before and played most of the season with a broken arm. He will be one of the top 3 WRs at least until Welker comes back

    Richard DT - Made the PS, who knows

    That is a much better result that I expect with all those picks. Fully 6 them found themselves starting or in the regular rotation and all of them either made the roster, PS or were put on IR
    Last edited by patsfanken; 07-03-2010 at 01:58 PM.

  20. #20
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    There is nothing more cliche than using the depth card.

    You say this every year. We get it, you don't know who these players are, by definition most haven't gotten a chance to prove to you that they can play.

    Again, every year Pats fans cry that the Jets have been injury free. And lack the depth to deal with it. As if they're not in the same boat as every other NFL team in 2010. Praying that this is the year the Jet roster is depleted by injury and they stumble. I bet you thought your theory would play out when Jenkins, Leon, Strickland and Sheppard went down.

    Somehow, unknowns stepped in and they managed. Quite well. :yes:

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