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Thread: Braves get Gonzalez; Escobar to Jays

  1. #1
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    Braves get Gonzalez; Escobar to Jays

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5379421


    The second half hasn't begun yet, but the Atlanta Braves made a trade Wednesday to try to stay atop their NL East perch.

    The Braves acquired shortstop Alex Gonzalez, who has 17 home runs at the All-Star break, on Wednesday in a five-player trade with the Toronto Blue Jays.

    Atlanta sent shortstop Yunel Escobar and left-handed pitcher Jo-Jo Reyes to Toronto and received Gonzalez and two minor leaguers (shortstop Tyler Pastornicky and pitcher Tim Collins).

    "This trade improves our club for the second half of the season," Braves general manager Frank Wren said in a statement. "We have been looking at ways to strengthen our club offensively and Alex Gonzalez is a proven veteran player who gives us added power. He is a winner and a solid offensive presence in the lineup as well as a quality defensive shortstop."

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    hamburglar is in awe

  3. #3
    lol, as much as I've hammered home the point that Escobar's not better then Reyes, that's just an embarrassingly bad trade for the Braves.

    They traded a career .771 OPS SS for a career .696 OPS SS, in a win-now move.

    The odds are better that Yunel Escobar would outproduce Alex Gonzalez over the remainder of the season then vice versa, nevermind that Yunel was cheap and controllable for several more years.

    This is like that fantasy baseball trade where someone buys high on some established mediocre player having a hot start (Like an Alex Gonzalez), and sells low on a far superior player (Like an Yunel Escobar). Except, that just happened in real life.

    And the 17th and 19th best prospects in Toronto's system (Not my opinion, baseball america's opinion) do little to even up the trade.

    Really, they just gave up assets to make their team worse this season.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    lol, as much as I've hammered home the point that Escobar's not better then Reyes, that's just an embarrassingly bad trade for the Braves.

    They traded a career .771 OPS SS for a career .696 OPS SS, in a win-now move.

    The odds are better that Yunel Escobar would outproduce Alex Gonzalez over the remainder of the season then vice versa, nevermind that Yunel was cheap and controllable for several more years.

    This is like that fantasy baseball trade where someone buys high on some established mediocre player having a hot start (Like an Alex Gonzalez), and sells low on a far superior player (Like an Yunel Escobar). Except, that just happened in real life.

    And the 17th and 19th best prospects in Toronto's system (Not my opinion, baseball america's opinion) do little to even up the trade.

    Really, they just gave up assets to make their team worse this season.
    You left out the crux of the issue: The entire Braves clubhouse was completely fed up with Escobar's attitude and lazy mistakes. A couple of weeks ago, he got thrown out at second on an easy double because he was admiring the line drive and didn't leg it. Just the latest example in a long line of brain dead behavior that was disrespectful to the game and his teammates.

    Escobar has elite talent. Never in question. But he's short on motivation, he's sullen, his lack of emotional maturity shows up on the field in the form of bad base running, poor plate discipline, and defensive gaffs. They gave him three years to mature. It didn't happen, and, in fact, he was regressing. I think most who follow the Braves closely anticipated this was coming.

    The Braves clubhouse is as strong as it's been in years. Guys are playing hurt, running hard, playing intense, heads up baseball. Escobar stood out like a sore thumb. If team chemistry counts for anything, the Braves just got MUCH better.

  5. #5
    Watching Escobar in the last series with the Mets, his lackadaisical play was clearly evident. He almost cost Glaus his arm on a lollipop throw to first base. Good move for the Braves.

  6. #6

    RBstern is Dead on

    This had much more to do with the clubhoue than on the field talent. Bobby Cox is in his last season and doesnt want to put up with and lazy ass crap.

    I'm the Atlanta Anti-Brave fan and don't care who wins as long as the Braves lose.

    I'll be wearing my Gator shirt to the Braves game tonight, just to piss off the locals.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by rbstern View Post
    You left out the crux of the issue: The entire Braves clubhouse was completely fed up with Escobar's attitude and lazy mistakes. A couple of weeks ago, he got thrown out at second on an easy double because he was admiring the line drive and didn't leg it. Just the latest example in a long line of brain dead behavior that was disrespectful to the game and his teammates.

    Escobar has elite talent. Never in question. But he's short on motivation, he's sullen, his lack of emotional maturity shows up on the field in the form of bad base running, poor plate discipline, and defensive gaffs. They gave him three years to mature. It didn't happen, and, in fact, he was regressing. I think most who follow the Braves closely anticipated this was coming.

    The Braves clubhouse is as strong as it's been in years. Guys are playing hurt, running hard, playing intense, heads up baseball. Escobar stood out like a sore thumb. If team chemistry counts for anything, the Braves just got MUCH better.
    Except he was doing all the same things for the last 3 years and nobody gave a **** then because he was producing. This doesn't have to do him being lazy, it has to do with him hitting .240.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    Except he was doing all the same things for the last 3 years and nobody gave a **** then because he was producing. This doesn't have to do him being lazy, it has to do with him hitting .240.
    It was an issue then, too. The thinking was that with coaching and veteran leadership, he'd lose the bad habits over time and learn to play the game the right way. His plate discipline had been improving, and that's why he had a good year last year, but he completely back slid on plate discipline this year, and the spill-over effect shows up in defense and baserunning.

    After three years, he still needs to get his head on straight, and the Braves don't have time for that during a penant run.

    You called this trade "embarrasingly bad." The fact is, the Braves are in great shape to make a solid playoff push and perhaps contend for the World Series title. Escobar has completely **** the bed as a run producer this year. He doesn't move runners over, and his dazzling skills at SS are easily offset by the boneheaded stuff he does defensively and on the base paths. In the meantime, the Braves got a solid SS who is producing with the bat, and upgrades the power and RBI potential in their lineup substantially. Gonzalez will also reliably do the little things that win games that Escobar can't seem to do. Hitting to the opposite field to move runners, not getting caught out of position on the basepaths.

    Bye bye, Yunel. Hope you enjoy Toronto.
    Last edited by rbstern; 07-16-2010 at 01:45 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rbstern View Post
    You called this trade "embarrasingly bad." The fact is, the Braves are in great shape to make a solid playoff push and perhaps contend for the World Series title. Escobar has completely **** the bed as a run producer this year. He doesn't move runners over, and his dazzling skills at SS are easily offset by the boneheaded stuff he does defensively and on the base paths. In the meantime, the Braves got a solid SS who is producing with the bat, and upgrades the power and RBI potential in their lineup substantially. Gonzalez will also reliably do the little things that win games that Escobar can't seem to do. Hitting to the opposite field to move runners, not getting caught out of position on the basepaths.
    It's embarrassingly bad because they traded for a worse offensive, and only similar caliber defensive shortstop in a win now move. Yeah, he was in a slump this year, so what? Alex Gonzalez is still a career .248/.294/.403 hitter. He sucks, hot start to the year aside, he has a 10 year career that suggests that won't last. The odds are better that Yunel Escobar outproduces Alex Gonzalez down the stretch then vice versa.

    You don't improve your team by trading better players for worse ones, no matter if Yunel Escobar was lazy or not. This move likely cost their team a game or two down the stretch, not improved them.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    It's embarrassingly bad because they traded for a worse offensive, and only similar caliber defensive shortstop in a win now move. Yeah, he was in a slump this year, so what? Alex Gonzalez is still a career .248/.294/.403 hitter. He sucks, hot start to the year aside, he has a 10 year career that suggests that won't last. The odds are better that Yunel Escobar outproduces Alex Gonzalez down the stretch then vice versa.

    You don't improve your team by trading better players for worse ones, no matter if Yunel Escobar was lazy or not. This move likely cost their team a game or two down the stretch, not improved them.
    One guy is driving in runs. The other guy isn't even making productive outs.

    One guy is a clubhouse positive, the other is a clubhouse negative.

    I don't have a problem with the win now quotient of this trade. Wagner is gone after this year. Chipper may be gone. Glaus, Diaz and Hinske all have one year deals. Hudson and Lowe aren't going to be around long term.

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