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Thread: Why are the 2010 Jets a better team than the 2009 Ravens?

  1. #1
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    Why are the 2010 Jets a better team than the 2009 Ravens?

    Serious question, not trying to bait or anything like that. Now that the season is getting close and the excitement of the off-season additions (which I loved) has worn off, I'm looking at the team more objectively and I'm trying to convince myself that the roster is really better than the squad that would have gone no better than 8-8 last year if the Colts had something to play for.

    The Ravens in '08 had an almost identical season as the Jets of last year. AFC championship game with a rookie HC and rookie QB. Two teams that win games through hard running and good defense. The Ravens in '09 should have been favorites, but they weren't, and they slipped from 11-5 to 9-7 despite decent development from Flacco and an even stronger running game than the previous year. So why are we all so convinced that this Jets team will be improved from last year's campaign?

    Why do we think Sanchez will play as well as or better than Flacco did last year, knowing that Flacco played the same amount of games as a rookie but had many more collegiate starts?
    Is the tandem of Greene / Tomlinson better than Rice / McGahee?
    Do the Jets really have a better coaching staff than the Ravens?

    In fact, if you look at the rosters, the only place where the 2010 Jets are undoubtedly more talented than the '09 Ravens is at CB, but then the Ravens counter with Reed at safety. The Ravens touted more natural pass rushers, and have a beast on the line in Ngata that is in Jenkins' class. The Jets look to be more talented at the WR position, but who knows which Braylon Edwards will show or whether Sanchez and Santonio will be a solid combination.

    If the answer to the questions is that Rex will have these guys more ready to play than their opponents, then I'm cool with that. But what has Rex done to eliminate whatever it was that caused the late-game collapses against the Dolphins, Jags & Falcons? Will it take until Week 12 for the staff to find the right gameplan for Sanchez, as it did last year?

    All offseason I've been excited about this team, and the first few games will tell us what they're working with, but I guess I'm curious why so many believe the Jets are an 11-12 win team this year. Or in other words, what sets them apart from last year's AFCCG runner up.

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    I dont think the Jets are better than the Ravens, if so, only marginally. The Ravens have a real prototypical QV with Flacco. Sanchez is a diff type of QB, who can be equally effective, but, maybe not immediately. The defenses are almost even. I'll give a slight edge right now to the Jets. But, the Ravens DL is by far better than ours. I think our running games are comparable. Both teams have a "swagger" - which is great.

    It really just comes down to the QB postition where I give a slight edge (for the moment) to Flacco PS - I wanted the Jets to draft Flacco, but, we all know that Chad was going to use his brains to give us a SB - so why bother? ;)

    Jets 9 to 12 wins in 2010
    Ravens 9 to 11 wins in 2010

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    I am a little surprised Baltimore hasnt been rated a little higher in the pre-season polls (for what they are worth) but I think what seperates us is that our defense is better at this point especially when it comes to defending the pass which is where this league is currently geared toward with so many quality QB's and the rediculous amount of interference calls.

    Reed and Lewis are good but not close to what they were a couple years ago.

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    Why are we comparing the 2010 Jets to the 2009 Ravens?

    And Sanchez to Flacco?

    By the end of the 09 season Flacco was still a hindrance to the Ravens offense. In his 2nd season. Was still the second option.

    By the end of the 09 season, his 1st season, Sanchez wasn't limiting the Jet offense in any way. Was leading the unit.

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    Flacco is way better than you seem to give him credit for.

    His rookie season was still much better than Sanchez's and last year he started the season as one of the best QBs in the league nevermind for a 2nd year player.

    Sanchez was also a large hinderance to the offense for pretty much the entire season.

    So yeah I think you're way off base.

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    I think the teams are about neck-and-neck for this season.

    But going to back to the 2009 Baltimore team, Flacco didn't even throw a touchdown pass in the 2009 playoffs (and only has one in his five career post-season games).

    His 2009 stat line was really ugly:

    24 for 45, 223 yards, 0 TD's/3 INT

    2008 playoffs:

    33 for 75, 437 yards, 1 TD/3 INT

    Flacco was good as a rookie, much better in his second year, but basically **** the bed once he got into the playoffs both seasons.

    We all saw Sanchez show a lot of poise and play his best games in the playoffs: 41 for 68, 539 yards, 4 TD/2INT

    Sanchez is a big-game player, he was last year for the Jets, and was Rose Bowl MVP for USC just the year before that, when he scored five touchdowns against Penn State's defense.

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    To me, the big difference is that the 2009 Ravens rested on their laurels in spite of glaring weaknesses (WR among others), they just thought if they sent out pretty much the same team the results would be the same. It wasn't. The 2010 Jets have done their best to address all their weaknesses, they brought in another WR, they revamped the secondary, they brought in Jason Taylor to provide some added pass rush, Greene seems poised to step up into the RB position, ect.

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    First of all, our WR corp is WAAAAYYY better than the 2009 Ravens, so Sanchez gets an automatic "bump" right there.

    Also, the real question is what upgrades did the 2009 Ravens make in regards to their previous season?

    We've bolstered our WR corp and our secondary, so both sides of the ball have positive upside.

    For all Sanchez's heroics in the playoffs, the truth is he didn't have the best rookie season, so to expect at least SOME improvement is not beyond the realm of possibility.

    We also had some special teams upheaval during the year, which likely cost us AT LEAST one game (Miami)

    Add to that the fact that we're in the 2nd year of our system and I believe we have PLENTY of reasons to think we'll be as good as advertised -- reasons I'm not sure the 2009 Ravens shared. . .
    Last edited by OCCH; 07-19-2010 at 03:06 PM.

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    Football Outsiders' Pythagorean Wins for 2009.
    Ravens - 11.6
    Jets - 11.4

    They were essentially the same team.

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    [QUOTE=Buzzsaw;3649920]I think the teams are about neck-and-neck for this season.

    But going to back to the 2009 Baltimore team, Flacco didn't even throw a touchdown pass in the 2009 playoffs (and only has one in his five career post-season games).

    His 2009 stat line was really ugly:

    24 for 45, 223 yards, 0 TD's/3 INT

    2008 playoffs:

    33 for 75, 437 yards, 1 TD/3 INT

    Flacco was good as a rookie, much better in his second year, but basically **** the bed once he got into the playoffs both seasons.

    We all saw Sanchez show a lot of poise and play his best games in the playoffs: 41 for 68, 539 yards, 4 TD/2INT

    [B]Sanchez is a big-game player, he was last year for the Jets, and was Rose Bowl MVP for USC just the year before that, when he scored five touchdowns against Penn State's defense[/B].[/QUOTE]

    Will be great if this is true. Just one of those guys who plays well in the games that really matter. I still think Sanchez's best regular-season performance was in Week 1, where he looked like he couldn't miss on 3rd down (when it mattered). If that's the guy we have, then it's a good reason to be confident in him.

    I still wonder if we're overrating the rest of the roster though. I bring up the '09 Ravens only because of the strong similarities between the philosophies and the makeup of the two teams (young HCs/QBs, strong running games, tough defenses) and the fact that despite the improvement (large or small) of their young QB, the Ravens' record slipped by a couple of games in '09.

    We are now expecting the Jets to be a 10-12 win team...but did they make enough improvement to counter what is clearly a tougher schedule (at least on paper) than they faced last season? I know there's no answer and everything goes back to how well Sanchez plays, but I still wonder if this team is as good as the playoff run said it is.

  11. #11
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    The 2008 Ravens lost Rex Ryan for 2009.

    The 2009 Jets will still have Rex Ryan in 2010.

    Everything else is just details.

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    [QUOTE=OCCH;3649946]First of all, our WR corp is WAAAAYYY better than the 2009 Ravens, so Sanchez gets an automatic "bump" right there.

    Also, the real question is what upgrades did the 2009 Ravens make in regards to their previous season?

    We've bolstered our WR corp and our secondary, so both sides of the ball have positive upside.

    For all Sanchez's heroics in the playoffs, the truth is he didn't have the best rookie season, so to expect at least SOME improvement is not beyond the realm of possibility.

    [B]We also had some special teams upheaval during the year, which likely cost us AT LEAST one game (Miami) [/B]

    Add to that the fact that we're in the 2nd year of our system and I believe we have PLENTY of reasons to think we'll be as good as advertised -- reasons I'm not sure the 2009 Ravens shared. . .[/QUOTE]

    Good responses from you and Venom - while I don't think the Jets addressed the special teams concerns (I think they're really weak in that department this year), they did do more to improve the team than that previous year's Ravens team.

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    I think thats a pretty valid question. I would think these were the main differences in terms of expectations for the Ravens in 2009 vs our expectations in 2010:

    1. The Rex Ryan factor. Baltimore was expected to take a step back defensively because they lost their defensive coordinator who was basically given most of the credit for what happened in 2008.

    2. Skill position talent. Edwards, Holmes, Cotchery, and Keller far outrank Mason, Clayton, Williams, and Heap. I dont think its even close. This should make the transition from run attack to a balanced one go much smoother for the Jets.

    3. Identity. This goes back to point 1. When Ryan left the Ravens I think most people felt that they would attempt to open up the game and become more passing oriented, which they were early on. It took the Ravens some time to go back to being a run oriented team. I think the feeling is the Jets will quickly revert back to "ground and pound" if Sanchez falters.

    Here is the other thing to look at. By my own rating system the Jets and Ravens actually graded out as number 1 and number 2 in the NFL last season. Neither team was the prototypical 9-7 type that usually plays above their head and has a few surprise wins along the way. The Ravens lost 3 or 4 last minute stunners that had no business of occurring and I dont recall them having similar wins that "balanced it all out". Even if they split those games they are an 11 win team.

    Our team was even more extreme. We had 4 games lost on the last possession of the game and another basically lost on the final drive. Again it never balanced out in any manner. So the talent level was higher than 9 wins. The Jets justhave to show a better ability to close it out this year and you hope they learned from 2009.

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    The 2009 Baltimore Ravens came off an offseason where they lost their best coach, an under-rated safety, and a pretty good ILB who ate up a lot of blockers for an aging Ray Lewis. The 2009 Baltimore Ravens also have nothing close to what the 2010 Jets have at the WR position.

    Derrick Mason & a bunch of nobodies with an aging Todd Heap.

    vs

    Jerricho Cotchery, Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards & an emerging young Dustin Keller.

    Not to mention, the 2009 Baltimore Ravens do not have the 2010 Jets CB depth either.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Jason423;3649964]I think thats a pretty valid question. I would think these were the main differences in terms of expectations for the Ravens in 2009 vs our expectations in 2010:

    1. The Rex Ryan factor. Baltimore was expected to take a step back defensively because they lost their defensive coordinator who was basically given most of the credit for what happened in 2008.

    2. Skill position talent. Edwards, Holmes, Cotchery, and Keller far outrank Mason, Clayton, Williams, and Heap. I dont think its even close. This should make the transition from run attack to a balanced one go much smoother for the Jets.

    3. Identity. This goes back to point 1. When Ryan left the Ravens I think most people felt that they would attempt to open up the game and become more passing oriented, which they were early on. It took the Ravens some time to go back to being a run oriented team. I think the feeling is the Jets will quickly revert back to "ground and pound" if Sanchez falters.

    Here is the other thing to look at. By my own rating system the Jets and Ravens actually graded out as number 1 and number 2 in the NFL last season. Neither team was the prototypical 9-7 type that usually plays above their head and has a few surprise wins along the way. The Ravens lost 3 or 4 last minute stunners that had no business of occurring and I dont recall them having similar wins that "balanced it all out". Even if they split those games they are an 11 win team.

    Our team was even more extreme. We had 4 games lost on the last possession of the game and another basically lost on the final drive. [B]Again it never balanced out in any manner.[/B] So the talent level was higher than 9 wins. The Jets justhave to show a better ability to close it out this year and you hope they learned from 2009.[/QUOTE]

    While I'm on your side of the fence in this discussion, you DO have to account for those last two games of the season.

    It doesn't balance out FIVE "last-minute" losses (that hopefully we'll put away this year), but they did help get us where we needed to be.

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    [QUOTE=OCCH;3650113]While I'm on your side of the fence in this discussion, you DO have to account for those last two games of the season.

    It doesn't balance out FIVE "last-minute" losses (that hopefully we'll put away this year), but they did help get us where we needed to be.[/QUOTE]

    I think you only have to account for the Colts game. The Bengals came out looking to play a football game that Sunday night and got slaughtered. The fact that the Jets went on the road and did the same thing the following week pretty much discounts the whole "they got a gift" angle.

    As for the Colts game? Who knows. I think we would have lost the game, but its not like they were way ahead of our team, though Manning was certainly trying his best to do it. But the team certainly caught a huge break.

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    [QUOTE=JETSJetsJetsJets;3649957]The 2008 Ravens lost Rex Ryan for 2009.

    The 2009 Jets will still have Rex Ryan in 2010.

    Everything else is just details.[/QUOTE]

    AMEN plus without REX the ravens did not look as fearsome on defense. I like our OL better too. I like our linebacking and CBs better too. All that plus REX imo makes the Jets a better team then the Ravens! I also think that sanchez might not be quite as advanced as Flacco but I think he could be more talented the way he reacts to big games.

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    Our rookie QB nearly went throw for throw for the most part against an all time great in his house, coming within 30 minutes of taking us to Miami in the process. They're 2nd year QB mustered 1 field goal. I'm in no way declaring Sanchez to be great already, but I will say that it looks like he has what it takes to step up in big time games, and what he did in that championship game compared to what Flacco did the week prior, is why I think the 2010 Jets are already better than the 2009 Ravens.

    Both teams have their advantages........Jets superior in the WR & secondary depts, Ravens have a stronger d-line/kicking game (SO not comfortable w/Folk), but even with a leg up in experience, Flacco has yet to step up in the big game. Sanchez has done in 1 January what Flacco hasn't done in 2, and IMO that's the difference. That being said, CAN'T WAIT FOR MONDAY NIGHT!!!
    Last edited by Bleed Green 2423; 07-19-2010 at 07:42 PM.

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    I think the Ravens are a very talented team and could well meet us in the divisional round or championship game, but on paper, all the positions are pretty close, except for CB, where we have a ridiculous advantage.

    We are virtually equal at WR, OL, and QB.

    Raves have the edge at S, RB, and DL.

    We are more talented at TE, LB, and CB.

    The ravens will be able to stop the run, no doubt, but they will have a hard time defending the pass this season. Fortunately for them, they should be able to really put points on the board.

    Should be a very exciting week one game....

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    why the jets are better:
    sanchez has more ability than flacco. they both pass pretty well but sanchez moves in the pocket better and can make plays by himself. flacco needs his oline to be good every play.

    the jet wr's are better than the ravens. the ravens te is better than the jet's.

    the running backs are about the same. edge to the ravens because rice played more games.

    the olines are about the same though the jet's group has upgraded by launching faneca.

    the jets dline is about the same as the ravens.

    the jet lb's are better. lewis will slow down. can't cheat father time.

    the jet's db's are better. revis and cromartie are better than the raven corners. ed reed is getting old.

    finally, the jets have rex ryan and he is a better coach than harbaugh.

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