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Thread: It seems that negotiating with Revis is history

  1. #41

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=Ray Ray19;3715424]Jesus H will you please shut up. You've become a babbling brook of hyperbole

    WE ALL FRIGGIN' know the value Revis has on this team, his talent, and NONE of us think he doesn't deserve a payday, the question, is, and has ALWAYS been, that the payday needs to be reflective of the market, and good for the team for the long term.

    NO WAY should the Jets give in and pay Revis an obscene amount of money just because the roster may be set up for a championship run, if they break the bank for one player, they will have a bigger mess on their plates at the end of the season when other players start lining up to do the same thing.

    Should Revis get paid? Yes

    Should he be paid amongst the top 3 at his position? Yes

    Are there CBA rules in place that create constraints in what the Jets can offer Revis? Yes

    Have other teams as well as the Jets in the Ferguson and Mangold deals given extensions to comply with those constraints? Yes

    Is Revis' team being unreasonable with all of this considered? From all indications, Yes

    Does Revis deserve a big pay day that is within the structure of the team's long term plans? Yes

    Should the team cave and just give in? Hell no

    Will it suck not to have Revis? Hell yes

    Should we all want what is best for the TEAM? Yes!!!!

    /THREAD and all discussions on this topic!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

    +1000

    Good post!

  3. #43
    So if this was just a matter of the Jets losing face and "losing" the negotiation, I would have no problem with that.

    But there are long term consequences.
    1. Cap. Wasting money on Revis doesn't just mean Woody loses money. It means we can't sign other people. Essentially, the less we pay Revis, the better our team will be in the future.
    2. Precedent. This is a whole game theory thing. Letting Revis rot screws both Revis and the team. Players are willing to do this if they think the team is less tolerant of pain than they are. So, the fact that everyone knows that AJ Smith is a prick can help San Diego. He will do whatever he can to screw the other guy, no matter what the consequences are for the team. VJ *is* going to rot, to reinforce AJ's reputation. Players are pretty stupid to go down this path against him. There's a benefit if we / Tanny have a similar reputation.

    But I'm starting to think this is not going to be resolved. I though that early August date (losing a year of eligibility) was a key date, and he would be back by then. Then I thought the 3rd preseason game. But if he's not back for the 1st game, i.e. if he doesn't sign in a day or two, I think he's out for the season... :(

  4. #44
    "Essentially, the less we pay Revis, the better our team will be in the future."

    this assumes that the people you are paying are actually elite players. Revis is a known quantity he's an elite player.

    53 good players doesn't beat a team with 40 good players 10 decent players and 3 superstars. I'll take the superstars every single time.

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;3715246]Look at Sean Gilbert..... after he got the money he totally sucked.

    REVIS, if paid this type of money, will play not be the REVIS we know.

    WHY??? Becauise anyone who does this is not a "heart" player and he will remain bitter.

    Let him sit..I'd rather be 10 and 6 and he not get paid.[/QUOTE]


    Every once in a while you are correct. :D

    Give this man a cookie.

  6. #46
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    trade him.


    seriously :cool:

  7. #47
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    The Jets also need money for a new WR next season - Holmes and Edwards need to be either resigned or replaced. The truth is, there is no money for Revis 16 mio Dollar Deal.
    And I think the Jets should guarantee Revis money for injury but not for ability. If he does not produce, he should not get millions of dollars, because his holdouts show that he only cares about the money, not the game. They need to force him to play his A-Game every day.

  8. #48
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    Mike T., is on record as having said we want what is best for both the Jets And Darrelle Revis. He is well aware that screwing over DR (even if it were possible) is not the best way forward for everybody.

    It is clear that they still have hopes of signing him, otherwise we would have heard of trade rumors. Right now it's a waiting game to see if any party decides to compromise. At some point it will be no longer worth waiting for and they will look to trade him either during the season or more likely in the off season.

    Making Darrelle sit rather than trade him right now is the only leverage the Jets have. This is the only card they have right now, they can't be seen as willing to trade him now or else Darrelle and his agents have all the power.

    We could have resolution next week or it could be seven months from now.

    The Jets will not make him sit three years, if Darelle does not sign with the Jets before the end of the season, Darrelle is moving - it's business for everyone involved.
    Last edited by Gangrene; 09-04-2010 at 11:54 AM.

  9. #49
    [QUOTE=bitonti;3715468]"Essentially, the less we pay Revis, the better our team will be in the future."

    this assumes that the people you are paying are actually elite players. Revis is a known quantity he's an elite player.

    53 good players doesn't beat a team with 40 good players 10 decent players and 3 superstars. I'll take the superstars every single time.[/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://blog.sironaconsulting.com/.a/6a00d8341c761a53ef0120a4e52bcc970b-320wi[/IMG]

  10. #50
    I don't think Revis is coming in anytime soon.

    Now i'm not in favor of trading him let him sit out for 3 years,but if your the Jets do you float his name out there for a trade?Maybe some team will make some crazy too good to be true offer. teams like The Redskins and Cowboys come to mind

    What do you guys think?

    Again I only trade him if a team makes a crazy offer.Something like 2 number 1's or a whole draft.Like the Ricky Williams trade

  11. #51
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    The real test is when Darrelle sits at home and watches the Jets on television. Will the experience strengthen his resolve to hold out, infuriating him that the Jets could not see his worth or will he pick up his phone and says "I should be playing ball, get a deal done today"

    I'm thinking it just hardens his resolve to sit . . .

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=Gangrene;3715485]
    It is clear that they still have hopes of signing him, otherwise we would have heard of trade rumors. Right now it's a waiting game to see if any party decides to compromise. At some point it will be no longer worth waiting for and they will look to trade him either during the season or more likely in the off season. [/QUOTE]

    I genuinely think he is and will be untradeable. No team will give him the money he wants AND at least one first round pick and a second to the Jets. See Aso

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=Raug;3715499]I genuinely think he is and will be untradeable. No team will give him the money he wants AND at least one first round pick and a second to the Jets. See Aso[/QUOTE]

    Yup. All of the people talking trade have to realize this...

    He's untradable unless someone is willing to give him 16mm plus a year - I'm not sure any team in the league is willing to do this...

    And even if they find a team to do it the only way it's in the Jets interest is if they get something reasonable in return.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=bitonti;3715468]"Essentially, the less we pay Revis, the better our team will be in the future."

    this assumes that the people you are paying are actually elite players. Revis is a known quantity he's an elite player.

    53 good players doesn't beat a team with 40 good players 10 decent players and 3 superstars. I'll take the superstars every single time.[/QUOTE]

    Parcells basically killed our cap with a couple of players including a posion pill deal for Martin. Didn't work, our hands were tied and the furthest the team got was exactly where the Jets were last year and we went into a slow decline.

  15. #55
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    Here's where reality disappoints me sometimes...

    If both Revis and VJ end up sitting out this season, and at the end of the day, not getting enough of a contract to make up for that loss, why would ANY player in the future ever sign with these guys. They are the kings of contentious holdouts. Would you, as a young player, want to align yourself with agents who are more likely than not going to have you sitting out a year...agents that you know are not known for getting fair deals done quickly?

    If my kid were looking for an agent, this would be a HUGE red flag to me.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=nycdan;3715512]Here's where reality disappoints me sometimes...

    If both Revis and VJ end up sitting out this season, and at the end of the day, not getting enough of a contract to make up for that loss, why would ANY player in the future ever sign with these guys. They are the kings of contentious holdouts. Would you, as a young player, want to align yourself with agents who are more likely than not going to have you sitting out a year...agents that you know are not known for getting fair deals done quickly?

    If my kid were looking for an agent, this would be a HUGE red flag to me.[/QUOTE]

    If you are a potential first rounder and only care about the money.. hell yeah. They will get it for you. But if you are not.... I probably would not because teams might pass on me cause of my agents.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Gangrene;3715485]

    It is clear that they still have hopes of signing him, otherwise we would have heard of trade rumors. [b]Right now it's a waiting game to see if any party decides to compromise.[/b] At some point it will be no longer worth waiting for and they will look to trade him either during the season or more likely in the off season.

    Making Darrelle sit rather than trade him right now is the only leverage the Jets have. This is the only card they have right now, they can't be seen as willing to trade him now or else Darrelle and his agents have all the power.

    [/QUOTE]

    The NYJ have already compromised...by entering into new contract negotiations that they were under NO obligation to do. Revis still has a valid contract with 3 years remaining on it. I've been waiting for some measure of compromise from the Revis camp, and haven't seen it yet...the man is not even in camp in violation of his contract whereas the NYJ have upheld every tenet of his existing deal.

    And, the NYJ aren't making Darelle sit....he is doing that to himself. I really don't understand why people cannot understand this basic fact. Revis has a valid contract that had a 99% chance of guaranteeing himself $20 mill + over the next three years if he had just shown up in camp.

    The Jets may only have 'one card', but it is the trump card...they have a 'nut flush' here. If they are willing to hold onto it and use it, Revis has no where to go...and I hope the Jets stand firm.

  18. #58

    I don't see it

    [QUOTE=marvinpowell;3715227]It is time to come to the inevitable conclusion, which is that there will not be any negotiating with Darrelle Revis. And the quicker that the NY Jets come to this conclusion, the better off the Jets will be.

    Darrelle Revis wants 16 million per year or goodbye! I have taken a seminar on the "Artof Negotiating" and I negotiate every day as part of my job. I believe that I am very good at it, although I do not want to give the impression that this is what I do for a living; it is not. The most important thing I took away from this one day seminar is this, "In negotiating, you are always looking for a win win senario". You are never looking to "beat" the other side, you should always want both sides to win. Now, if both sides have this attitude, then I believe that the great majority of the time, both sides will be successful. It is time that Mike Tannenbaum and the owner come to this conclusion, so that this situation can finally be resolved. Yes, resolved!

    Once the Jets finally wake up, these are the options"
    1. Give Revis what he wants, and move forward as an organization. There is a legal phrase that I often think about in these situations, it is "res ipsa loquitor" and the literal translation is "the event speaks for itself". In this case, I believe that the situation speaks for itself; give in, or don't give in, but whatever you do, stop wasting time trying to negotiate, because it just is not happening; not now, not ever.

    2. Trade Revis for the best value that you can. Of course, to an NFC team, definitely not an AFC team, and definitely to the worst team I can find, so that if it is for draft picks, the picks will be high and not low.

    3. Let Revis rot for the next 3 years and never trade him. I find this scenario the most repugnant; the goal here is to inflict the most damage on Revis, but it does the most damage to the organization, not getting any value for a valuable commodity.

    In my opinion, I as a negotiator would give Revis generally what he wants, make the best deal that I can, knowing that the other side will win on this one, and yes, the Jets will lose except for something very obvious; although the Jets will have lost the negotiations, they will have gained one of the possibly the 50 greatest players who ever played the game of football; someone who we as Jets fans can add to the "ring of honor" which now only stands at (5) five, a pathetically small number considering the Jets have been in existance for almost 50 years now. Revis gives us a better chance of fielding a winning team, and that is the bottom line.

    The biggest crime here is in thinking that the negotiations are not over, because if you keep that attitude, everyone loses, and that is not smart. Please don't get me wrong, I consider Mike Tannenbaum to be an excellent negotiator; I believe he is always looking for the win win goal that I have discussed here; it just is that it is time for Mike and Woody Johnson to come to the same conclusion that I have, and by coming to this conclusion, allow a resolution to this situation.[/QUOTE]

    Give Revis a blank check? At what number would you say no? $160M? 260? 360? What if Revis asks Woody to give him both the Jets and the Stadium? You have to agree, at some point you say no. From what I hear, $120M is where Woddy says no, which is more than reasonable to me.

    Plus you have to consider the consequences in terms of both precedent for other contracts, plus the salary cap. There are 52 other guys this will impact.

    If we trade him for draft pics, we don't see that benefit until 2011. So I would not trade Revis until 2011. Make him miss the money for 2010. Revis held out to get this contract and now he wont honor it. What makes us think he will honor a new one? I'd sue Revis for breach and look to get some signing bonus $ back from him.

  19. #59
    [QUOTE=IHATEDOLPHINS;3715491]I don't think Revis is coming in anytime soon.

    Now i'm not in favor of trading him let him sit out for 3 years,but if your the Jets do you float his name out there for a trade?Maybe some team will make some crazy too good to be true offer. teams like The Redskins and Cowboys come to mind

    What do you guys think?

    Again I only trade him if a team makes a crazy offer.Something like 2 number 1's or a whole draft.Like the Ricky Williams trade[/QUOTE]


    Revis at this current time is not worth a second rounder. Revis wants $16 million from the next guy before he signs. Name me an NFL team that would give him 16 million/year and give you 2 1st rounders. Not gonna happen.

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE]I genuinely think he is and will be untradeable. No team will give him the money he wants AND at least one first round pick and a second to the Jets. See Aso
    [/QUOTE]

    I agree no one will give him his current demands but he will accept less from another team (than from the Jets) seven months from now. To save face the contract will be record breaking but the guaranteed front end of the contract, I'd imagine will not be much different from what the Jets offered ten months earlier.



    [QUOTE]
    Parcells basically killed our cap with a couple of players including a posion pill deal for Martin. Didn't work, our hands were tied and the furthest the team got was exactly where the Jets were last year and we went into a slow decline. [/QUOTE]

    Well said, this experience perfectly articulates why I do not want 11% of our likely salary cap going to one football player not named Sanchez. Parcells did not care about the future years, I am a fan(atic) . . . I do.

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