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Thread: Jerzy Politics - Christie expected to unveil education reform plans today

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    Jerzy Politics - Christie expected to unveil education reform plans today

    http://www.northjersey.com

    This will be interesting.

    Will it be politics or policy or both?



    Tuesday, September 28, 2010
    The Record
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    TRENTON — Gov. Chris Christie is ready to announce reforms he wants to make to New Jersey's public education system.

    He's expected to do it at a town hall meeting on education reform Tuesday afternoon in Old Bridge.

    New Jersey students are among the best in the nation by such standards as test scores and graduation rates. But the public schools are also among the nation's most expensive to run, and inner city schools have lagged in student achievement.

    Christie has advocated performance pay and eliminating some job protections for teachers.

    Last month, New Jersey missed out on a $400 million grant to do some reforms because of an error on an application. But last week, Newark's schools received a $100 million donation.industrialized countries.

    TRENTON — Gov. Chris Christie is ready to announce reforms he wants to make to New Jersey's public education system.

    He's expected to do it at a town hall meeting on education reform Tuesday afternoon in Old Bridge.

    New Jersey students are among the best in the nation by such standards as test scores and graduation rates. But the public schools are also among the nation's most expensive to run, and inner city schools have lagged in student achievement.

    Christie has advocated performance pay and eliminating some job protections for teachers.

    Last month, New Jersey missed out on a $400 million grant to do some reforms because of an error on an application. But last week, Newark's schools received a $100 million donation.industrialized countries.

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    Gov. Christie pushes for teacher merit pay based on students' performance

    nj.com



    OLD BRIDGE — Student performance should count for at least 50 percent toward whether or not a teacher receives a raise or tenure, Gov. Chris Christie said during a town hall discussion in Old Bridge where he outlined a six-point plan for reforming education in the state.

    Christie billed the reforms as solutions for an education system he described as too costly to fail so many children. Many are similar to proposals made in the state’s failed Race to the Top application for $400 million in federal education funds.

    "I’m a product of the public school system in this state," Christie said, "But I have no patience for a system that says ‘That’s good for me, but depending on your zip code, that doesn’t work for you. You won’t have the same opportunity to be governor that I had."

    The intended reforms include merit pay, changes to tenure, completing a statewide data system that tracks student achievement, forming of a teacher evaluation task force, creating the designation of master teacher and allowing alternate route certification for principals.

    Though the Republican governor can accomplish four of his proposals through regulations and executive orders, the two most contentious — merit pay and tenure reform - require action by a state legislature controlled by the Democrats.

    On tenure reform, Christie said he would propose a bill that affords every child the right to an "effective teacher" and says tenure must be granted and taken away based on teachers’ effectiveness evaluations.

    "Tenure has become a job guarantee regardless of performance or success," Christie said. "Tenure has become the sclerosis that coats the veins of our school system."

    On merit pay, Christie said he wants to prohibit seniority or graduate degree attainment in fields other than math and science from influencing salary increases for teachers. The large pool of funding needed to start a merit pay program would come from the savings of firing bad teachers through tenure reform, Christie said.

    "Any type of compensation that allows for anything but merit - gone," Christie said.

    Just before the town hall began, Christie signed an executive order backstage creating a task force on teacher effectiveness. In the next seven to 10 days, Christie said he will name education experts to the task force, and in six months, he expects those members to design a "fair, thorough, data-driven teacher evaluation system" that will serve as the foundation for Christie’s merit pay and tenure reforms.

    NJEA President Barbara Keshishian said Christie’s suggested reliance on student test scores to determine a teacher’s worth has been proven scientifically ineffective. Keshishian cited the findings of a recent Vanderbilt University study, which shows merit pay has no influence on student achievement.

    "He is proposing reforms that are not based on good educational research or practice," Keshishian said. "What he proposes - an over-reliance on student test scores to make critical decisions from compensation to employment - is fatally flawed."


    Though Keshishian seemed skeptical of Democrats’ willingness to work with Christie on merit pay or tenure reform legislation, a spokesman for the Senate Democrats said, "Student achievement must be the most important factor for any educational system, and we look forward to working with officials and stakeholders in this effort."

    Assembly Republican Leader Alex DeCroce (R-Morris) applauded Christie’s plan as recognition of the drastic need for improvement in New Jersey’s educational system.

    "We must acknowledge that longevity should not be the sole factor in determining a salary increase and that performance counts," DeCroe said in a statement.

    Bruce Baker, an associate professor at Rutgers University’s Graduate School of Education, shares the NJEA’s concerns about linking teacher evaluations to student achievement data. Baker said research shows student test scores can be unreliable and severely biased based on who teaches whom.

    When asked specifically which in-class student assessment or standardized test Christie wants to use to evaluate teachers, spokesman Michael Drewniak would not comment.

    Statehouse Bureau writer Lisa Fleisher contributed to this report.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    Translation...

    We teachers want our money, benefits and summers off. Testing and accountablity is not relevant. If property taxes drive out the young and businesses.... who cares. We got ours.

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    Student performance should count for at least 50 percent toward whether or not a teacher receives a raise or tenure
    Makes sense. But I think it should apply to other professions as well.

    For example, if your broker recommends a stock that ends up tanking....he should pay you back. Or if a real estate agent sells you a property that loses value, they should give their commission back. Or of a plumber installs a water heater that fails, he should have to replace it.

    ALL jobs should be performance based, shouldn't they?








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    Imagine a doctor who tells his patient what to do, explains why it's the right thing to do, offers to answer ANY question the patient might have, and is even willing to give up some of his own time to help the patient get what he needs.

    The patient decides he doesn't want ANY of what the doctor has to offer, and chooses to do things his own way. He then gets sick, or hurt, or whatever the consequence of his inaction may be.

    Would any SANE person hold the doctor accountable? Of course not.

    Yet this is EXACTLY what is being asked of public school teachers.

    I'm a high school Math teacher, and actually believe teachers should be held to a higher standard than they currently are -- there are WAY too many people who don't belong in this profession.

    But to base it on student performance puts all the chips in the STUDENTS' lap, not the teacher's, which is why I can't agree with the premise.

    (Truth be told, my students "love" me, and I'd likely benefit from a merit pay scenario, so my argument is NOT selfishly-based).

    While it will NEVER happen, the best thing to do is privatize education. Make it something someone has a PERSONAL stake in. There's a reason private school isn't the jungle public school is -- they can be KICKED OUT. It's a "privilege" to be there. The parents have to SACRIFICE to have the child there, so they take more of an active role in their child's education.

    Since that won't happen, we'll keep hearing all these "plan B"s, and complain about all the problems with them . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Translation...

    We teachers want our money, benefits and summers off. Testing and accountablity is not relevant. If property taxes drive out the young and businesses.... who cares. We got ours.
    So once again, my Governor who is against big gov't now wants to control Atlantic City and the teachers of NJ? How well did "No Child Left Behind" work out?

    Teachers will be forced to "teach the tests" again. Awesome.

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    "Controlling" a corrupt AC gaming establishment is a separate issue from reforming a corrupt education system but they have something in common in that they are both rackets. Last time I checked they were both under the state's/governor's purview.

    It's awesome that needed reforms can be skirted with the media's help, all they have to do is mention "the state’s failed Race to the Top application for $400 million in federal education funds" in every story and the status quo can be mantained indefinitely.

    NCLB, a bipartisan federal measure was passed due to the notion that educational standards impact results positively, however standards are left up to the state-if NJ standards are crap and turn out crappy stoonts then its incumbent on the state's leadership to improve them.
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 09-30-2010 at 07:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Makes sense. But I think it should apply to other professions as well.

    For example, if your broker recommends a stock that ends up tanking....he should pay you back. Or if a real estate agent sells you a property that loses value, they should give their commission back. Or of a plumber installs a water heater that fails, he should have to replace it.

    ALL jobs should be performance based, shouldn't they?
    Not quite right, though your heart was in the wrong place...always looking for reparations

    Buying stock, property, or a water heater are choices with different degrees of risk (e.g. warrantees/guarantees) in the outcome and competition under normal circumstances. When markets or product quality are manipulated egregiously, redress is possible under class action suits and the like. NJ is trying to reform the manipulation of its education system as well.

    (Redress has only happened w/ the housing market screwed up by (D) for the people who happily joined in the screwing with mortgage modifications, but I digress. )

    Education is different-it's not supposed to be like buying a scratch-off lottery ticket where 1 in 10 win their money back. Education is supposed to have higher standards (e. g. NCLB) like you'd expect in the airline industry - as you expect planes to be "seaworthy" and have a very high degree of probablilty you'll come out of the rocket-powered metal tube alive when it lands, you should also expect every kid even with differing interests and intellects to be literate and have a minimum of skillz when exiting the system.

    Instead, teachers are worried more about putting condoms on bananas for pre-K tots' sex ed, having them sing songs to B. Hussein about B. Hussein, revising American history and achieving tenure in that order.

    And like those stock buyers who assumed risk but wanted more recompense than writing off losses there have been patients who completely ignored dr./health warnings got sick and sued/demanded insurance coverage anyway
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 09-30-2010 at 09:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Makes sense. But I think it should apply to other professions as well.

    For example, if your broker recommends a stock that ends up tanking....he should pay you back. Or if a real estate agent sells you a property that loses value, they should give their commission back. Or of a plumber installs a water heater that fails, he should have to replace it.

    ALL jobs should be performance based, shouldn't they?







    Real estate agents and stock brockers are paid primarily based on performance. You also aren't required by government mandate to buy either houses or stocks and you have a multitude of choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    So once again, my Governor who is against big gov't now wants to control Atlantic City and the teachers of NJ? How well did "No Child Left Behind" work out?

    Teachers will be forced to "teach the tests" again. Awesome.
    Is the system working now? NO
    How about PFP, Pay For Performance. The educational system sucks in this country!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MnJetFan View Post
    Is the system working now? NO
    How about PFP, Pay For Performance. The educational system sucks in this country!
    Generalizing makes the Right feel better. I moved into my town because of the school district and am very happy with it.

    Not every child is smart.

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    New Jersey students are among the best in the nation by such standards as test scores and graduation rates. But the public schools are also among the nation's most expensive to run, and inner city schools have lagged in student achievement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Instead, teachers are worried more about putting condoms on bananas for pre-K tots' sex ed
    Yes. That's exactly what they are worried about. It keeps them up at night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Generalizing makes the Right feel better. I moved into my town because of the school district and am very happy with it.

    Not every child is smart.
    This is a bulletin board...it is meant for generalizations.

    BTW...1,000 parents polled over 90 percent said that education system in this country is in need of reform.

    Those same parents when polled over 80 percent said the school in thier district was above average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    This is a bulletin board...it is meant for generalizations.

    BTW...1,000 parents polled over 90 percent said that education system in this country is in need of reform.

    Those same parents when polled over 80 percent said the school in thier district was above average.
    I was always told on here polls don't matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    I was always told on here polls don't matter.
    My point is the irony I found provoking...no person will admit that the school their kid attends is below average but in general, most people think schools are below average. That's all.


    Why worry about education anyway??? Most kids will get government jobs where brain power is not really that important anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    My point is the irony I found provoking...no person will admit that the school their kid attends is below average but in general, most people think schools are below average. That's all.


    Why worry about education anyway??? Most kids will get government jobs where brain power is not really that important anyway.
    What do people base their opinion on? It's like every guy who hits 50 and now they think the world is going to end because things are soooo much different. Technology scares them too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post

    Teachers will be forced to "teach the tests" again.
    I agree with this. I don't agree with merit pay because there is only so much a teacher can do. Learning starts and ends at home, not in the classroom.

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    But our school system has a hole is bringing up the rear as compared to other countries. Maybe thats why High School Grads are taking remedial math in college!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    What do people base their opinion on? It's like every guy who hits 50 and now they think the world is going to end because things are soooo much different. Technology scares them too.
    Facts..... For example, I taught at a LARGE university here NC for 4 years while building my business. I was somewhat amazed at the "average student". he/She could barely spell (grew up on WORD), wrote poorly and speaks poorly. These kids in general are good kids, have moved on to become decent people. They simply had lower remedial skills than I believe a college kid should have on average.

    On that note, the top 10 percent of my classes..I would put up against any kids in the country.

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