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Thread: Faneca Apologists ...

  1. #61
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    [QUOTE=Kentucky Jet;3764899]IMO it was a terrible post! It does not take into consideration that FANECA is a year older and two steps slower. nor does it say he is not worth 6 or 7 million per season. Arizona is a bad team? well it was in a Super Bowl two years ago. Nor does BITONTI takeinto consideration that SLAUSON and POOL are new players. Slauso has played against top nothch talent and has yielded two sacks in 4 games. he calls that bad? POOL has a rookie on one side of him and a guy playing out of position on the other( CRO in for Mevis). He , too, is new to the scheme. Yet in his infinits wisdom he points out RHODES scored a TD so he is better then POOL. IMO it was a bad post espousing the usual nonsense.[/QUOTE]
    Right. But despite its terribleness, it agreed with what Warfish thinks so he called it good posting.

    Now you see what he did there? Pretty slick, huh?

  2. #62
    [QUOTE=crasherino;3764889]If Slauson plays like he did yesterday for the rest of the year, than it was clearly a good move. Freeing up money, developing a new, younger player is obviously important.

    But, JMO, yesterday's game was against the JV of the NFL. Slauson has been inconsistent. If he has more of his multiple holding calls and whiffs as the season goes by, it won't be as clear a picture.

    I was not a fan of letting Faneca go, but I certainly hope I was wrong in that regard. I'm still not convinced just yet - but if next week yields the same or similar results, it will go a long long way to prove he belongs.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed with the Bills not being a varsity NFL team.

    However - if Slauson has trouble with the Williams boys (arguably the best DT tandem in the league), this makes you think that dropping Faneca (he of the 10 QB pressures, 1 QB hit, 1 QB sack BEFORE yesterday's stats are confirmed and compiled) could still be "questionable"????

    :shakehead Wow.....just...wow....the hate for Matt Slauson, because he:

    1.) Isn't getting paid $5 million to not be here
    2.) Got trucked by an All-Pro 350lb DT on ONE play on MNF
    3.) Got a BS holding call negating a QB td run

    Is just BEYOND the pale at this point.

    Fact is - Callahan had faith in Slauson, Rex had faith in Callahan, and Tanny had faith in Rex and the scouting dept to say:

    "Hey, Faneca isn't staying here 5 years - certainly not to be Turnstile #66. And since we were forced to over pay him to replace the immortal Adrien Clarke, the FACT is that he is going to be paid to NOT be a Jet at SOME POINT in the future.

    I suppose we should keep him THIS year, so our 2nd year QB can get pressured, hit, and sacked alot, and THEN dump him next year when there is a salary cap again, so we can take a $5 million cap hit - that way our ability to resign quality young players will be even that much harder!!!! :cool4::thumbup:"

    Fortunately, Tanny then said: "Hmmm....Naaaaahhhh. I'll just cut him this year and take advantage of the un-capped year to avoid all that crap. And who knows? Maybe if Callahan and Rex do not SUCK at their jobs, they might be right that Slauson or someone else can at least suck NO WORSE than Faneca". :P

    -------------------------

    Yet again, I am grateful that we have our management team, and NOT members of JI in charge of the organization.:3stooges::coocoo:

  3. #63
    [QUOTE=C Mart;3764816]Hey Bit, since Revis has missed 2+ games and hasn't done much shouldn't he redo his deal since he is overpaid at $16M this year....[/QUOTE]

    no and I'll explain why

    besides the fact it's a 4 year deal and the jets will have much tougher games than Miami and Buffalo if they want to win a Super Bowl...

    the Revis signing sends a message to the locker room: if you play like a superstar, you will be rewarded. That motivation is priceless.

    to answer the other poster. yes I would take Faneca over Slauson today, if money were not a factor.

    the Jets romped on the Bills yesterday and that's great... but I dont know what this guy's upside is... Faneca is definitely declining. the question for me is where can Slauson ascend?

  4. #64
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764928]no and I'll explain why

    besides the fact it's a 4 year deal and the jets will have much tougher games than Miami and Buffalo if they want to win a Super Bowl...

    the Revis signing sends a message to the locker room: if you play like a superstar, you will be rewarded. That motivation is priceless.

    [B]to answer the other poster. yes I would take Faneca over Slauson today, if money were not a factor.

    the Jets romped on the Bills yesterday and that's great... but I dont know what this guy's upside is... Faneca is definitely declining. the question for me is where can Slauson ascend?[/B][/QUOTE]

    In this particular matter (Slauson vs. Faneca), it really doesn't matter where Slauson can ascend to because he is CURRENTLY outplaying Faneca!

    Yes, we all want to know where Slauson can ascend to as Jets' fans, but on this one issue it is a moot point because he is alreaday playing better.

  5. #65
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764928]no and I'll explain why

    besides the fact it's a 4 year deal and the jets will have much tougher games than Miami and Buffalo if they want to win a Super Bowl...

    the Revis signing sends a message to the locker room: if you play like a superstar, you will be rewarded. That motivation is priceless.

    [B]to answer the other poster. yes I would take Faneca over Slauson today, if money were not a factor. [/B]
    the Jets romped on the Bills yesterday and that's great... but I dont know what this guy's upside is... Faneca is definitely declining. the question for me is where can Slauson ascend?[/QUOTE]

    just call me "no name", and I'll call you nuts...

  6. #66
    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764928]no and I'll explain why

    besides the fact it's a 4 year deal and the jets will have much tougher games than Miami and Buffalo if they want to win a Super Bowl...

    [B]the Revis signing sends a message to the locker room: if you play like a superstar, you will be rewarded. That motivation is priceless. [/B]

    to answer the other poster. yes I would take Faneca over Slauson today, if money were not a factor.

    [B]the Jets romped on the Bills yesterday and that's great... but I dont know what this guy's upside is... Faneca is definitely declining. the question for me is where can Slauson ascend[/B]?[/QUOTE]

    I actually agree with the message on the Revis signing - nothing wrong with rewarding your top players and giving the other up-and-comers something to shoot for.

    But on the Faneca / Slauson thing - how can you ever know where a player can ascend if they sit the bench behind a declining vet? Keeping Faneca this year would have been like keeping Thomas Jones - look where they would have been had they not moved on LT over TJ. At some point you have to move on from the veteran and trust that going in a new direction is better for the long and short term.

  7. #67
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    [QUOTE=Oldtime Jets fan;3764920]Agreed with the Bills not being a varsity NFL team.

    However - if Slauson has trouble with the Williams boys (arguably the best DT tandem in the league), this makes you think that dropping Faneca (he of the 10 QB pressures, 1 QB hit, 1 QB sack BEFORE yesterday's stats are confirmed and compiled) could still be "questionable"????

    :shakehead Wow.....just...wow....the hate for Matt Slauson, because he:

    1.) Isn't getting paid $5 million to not be here
    2.) Got trucked by an All-Pro 350lb DT on ONE play on MNF
    3.) Got a BS holding call negating a QB td run

    Is just BEYOND the pale at this point.

    Fact is - Callahan had faith in Slauson, Rex had faith in Callahan, and Tanny had faith in Rex and the scouting dept to say:

    "Hey, Faneca isn't staying here 5 years - certainly not to be Turnstile #66. And since we were forced to over pay him to replace the immortal Adrien Clarke, the FACT is that he is going to be paid to NOT be a Jet at SOME POINT in the future.

    I suppose we should keep him THIS year, so our 2nd year QB can get pressured, hit, and sacked alot, and THEN dump him next year when there is a salary cap again, so we can take a $5 million cap hit - that way our ability to resign quality young players will be even that much harder!!!! :cool4::thumbup:"

    Fortunately, Tanny then said: "Hmmm....Naaaaahhhh. I'll just cut him this year and take advantage of the un-capped year to avoid all that crap. And who knows? Maybe if Callahan and Rex do not SUCK at their jobs, they might be right that Slauson or someone else can at least suck NO WORSE than Faneca". :P

    -------------------------

    Yet again, I am grateful that we have our management team, and NOT members of JI in charge of the organization.:3stooges::coocoo:[/QUOTE]

    Hmmm....me not fellating the guy after 4 games like you apparently are is "Hate" and "Beyond the Pale"? I think you need to settle down a bit. I've never had any particularly harsh words for Slauson....I merely think his (and the line in general's) performance this past week is not an indication that everything is completely hunky dory. The line up til Sunday was very average. Slauson has had some very solid play, and he's also been beat and penalized. 4 uneven games does not prove anything. He's certainly shown some ability and also shown some greenness - to be expected. If that's hate, then you are Slauson brother (or sister by the nature of your hissy fit).

    And falling back on the "Well the CS and scouting Dept decided it, so it must be right" argument is pretty weak. Why do you post on a message board if you don't have your own opinion?

  8. #68
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    Slauson's gotten better every game, Sanchez has had good protection, the line is opening big holes. There's really nothing to debate here IMO.

  9. #69
    it's tough for me to accept Slauson because I remember his mistakes.

    I remember him looking mediocre (undraftable) as a prospect at Nebraska.

    I remember him getting housed by Derek Landri in preseason. I remember him getting housed by Haloti Ngata game 1. I've seen him false start, hold and get bull rushed. I don't trust him in pass protection. He's a great run blocker and bully for that.

    does all this mean I think Alan Faneca is mistake free? NO. But while Faneca is a former first rounder, 9x pro bowl with declining skills, Slauson i don't know if he ever had the skills (footspeed) to be an NFL pass protector, and the jury is still out.

    Beating the Bills doesn't bring the jury in on this issue. We might be in the playoffs and Slauson suffers a breakdown... that could be a disaster. The fact he was ok in week 4 won't help us when the real elite teams face the Jets.

    there is a body of work here on this player, and not all of it's great. the best we can hope for is "acceptable'" or "fine" i doubt he will ever be great.
    Last edited by bitonti; 10-04-2010 at 01:52 PM.

  10. #70

    Faneca not doin so well, ? ...eh... Mr.Francessa ??

    [QUOTE=C Mart;3764517]Once the Jets FO and CS made the decision to move on without Faneca the Jets weren't going to keep a $6M backup OL on the roster, let alone a 8 time Pro Bowler (or how ever many) out of respect to Faneca.[/QUOTE]

    Yep, I think thats about it. Fanaca was very expensive to keep; and would have been embarrased to be a backup. Slauson is making progress every week and BTW -- SOMEONE SHOULD TELL FATCESSA--- WHO HAS badmouthed Slauson and been critical of Mr.T for the move with Faneca. Take that with your Diet Cola, Mr. Mike.:yes::yes:

  11. #71
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    we can debate this all we want, but the point is for the money they saved cutting Faneca they could have easily kept him on the roster. But that would have just kept the pressure from fans, the locker room, and the management writing Fancea's checks to play him. This way he's gone and they can try to give a youngster some playing time. Sooner or later it will be Woody's turn, but I think they just wanted to start infusing some new blood into that offensive line before it was too late (read: old). Better to be a year early on these things than 1 year too late.

    Maybe Slausson plays well, maybe he's a disaster in some big spots down the road, but sometimes you just have to make a decision, move on, and dont look back. Thats what the Jets are trying to do.

    Note: San Diego tried a similar strategy with LT, and thank god that didn't work out for them.

  12. #72
    [QUOTE=crasherino;3764989]Hmmm....me not fellating the guy after 4 games like you apparently are is "Hate" and "Beyond the Pale"? I think you need to settle down a bit. I've never had any particularly harsh words for Slauson....I merely think his (and the line in general's) performance this past week is not an indication that everything is completely hunky dory. The line up til Sunday was very average. Slauson has had some very solid play, and he's also been beat and penalized. 4 uneven games does not prove anything. He's certainly shown some ability and also shown some greenness - to be expected. If that's hate, then you are Slauson brother (or sister by the nature of your hissy fit).[/quote]

    Sorry - I was replying to the "general sentiment" that the JI board has been displaying and not just you in particular.

    Didn't occur to me that you would take everything I said as being personally directed at you - guess I should have quoted more than just your post when I replied.

    That said - you did bring up the (paraphrase) "If he stinks up the joint against the Williams boys, you can go right back to questioning the CS/Mgmt about dumping Faneca".

    And the simple fact that JMJ, myself, and several other people have been trying to tell Bit (and I guess you by extension) is this:

    Simply by virtue of Slauson's play AND Faneca's play, in 2010, to this point in time, this is a DEAD topic. And not because a bunch of us want to "fellate" Matt Slauson.

    Is it more because Faneca has been THAT bad than Slauson has been that good?

    Sure, I can live with that - but the fact that there is [B]possibly[/B] some upside to Slauson is light years ahead of the definitely declining Faneca.

    Couple that with the fact that playing Slauson has NOT gotten Sanchez killed NOR destroyed the running game, and I'd say that making cracks like (paraphrase) "well we should totally question authority if the Williams boys punk Slauson" seems pretty darn hateful/not reasonable to me.

    Because the Williams boys can make LOTS of OGs look like cr*p, not just Matt Slauson.

    [QUOTE=crasherino;3764989]And falling back on the "Well the CS and scouting Dept decided it, so it must be right" argument is pretty weak. Why do you post on a message board if you don't have your own opinion?[/QUOTE]

    Wow....that's pretty feeb Crash. You are usually a better poster than this. I'm going to chalk this up to you not feeling well or something, because usually you are one of the posters I pay more attention to.

    WHERE ,precisely, in my post did I profess that "it must be right because Tanny/Rex/Callahan said so" ??

    What I DID say (or at least meant to) is:

    Boy, am I glad the guys on JI are NOT the guys who are getting paid to make these decisions, because then:

    - We'd still have Faneca and Thomas Jones on this team.
    - LT would have been boldly declared done and never signed.
    - Revis would be getting paid WAY more than $1million per game to rest his boo-boos.
    - Schotty would have been gone and Mike Martz would be here getting our young 2nd year QB killed. (For the record - I don't like Schotty, but watching Cutler get murdered on national TV was just wince-inducing on every level)
    - Leon Washington would still be here and getting paid #1 RB money to be a kick off returner
    - Joe McKnight would have been cut in TC.
    - and most likely we would be in Cap hell.

    ====

    Now, that doesn't mean the masses are always wrong - avoiding drafting Gholston at #6 is one of those things that just about everyone thought was a good idea, just as an example. So the Jets definitely get a Ding on that one.

    I just feel like you and some of the other posters are the opposite of what you claim me to be:

    - You say I always think "CS/Tanny said so, therefore it must be good"

    - And I say that you guys come across as "CS/Tanny are a bunch of bone heads who should be totally questioned on everything, all the time, until the proof is so irrefutable that to continue questioning it gets me labelled a Moron(tm)."

    I prefer to think of myself as:

    "Well, the CS/Mgmt made a decision. Not sure how I feel good about it at the moment, but the Jets organization has been heading in a mostly Positive direction for the past few years, that I'm going to give them time to let the consequences of their decision pan out BEFORE I question/deride/ridicule what they did."

    I would hope that many of the other posters would adopt a similar attitude - because it's the fair thing to do, not the "Jet CS/Mgmt Homer" thing to do. :rolleyes:

  13. #73
    So the Jets saved $2M this year by cutting Faneca (But still pay in $5M). The question is... and if Jason is around, maybe he can answer. How much would the Jets have owed Faneca in 2011?

  14. #74
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    [QUOTE=Oldtime Jets fan;3765126]
    That said - you did bring up the (paraphrase) "If he stinks up the joint against the Williams boys, you can go right back to questioning the CS/Mgmt about dumping Faneca".
    [/QUOTE]

    Incorrect. I said that if he played well, that would solidify my opinion of him. That's not the same as what you're saying. Not by a long shot.

    There are varying degrees of "having trouble". I wouldn't presume to make a decision now on his performance on Monday without seeing it. But, if I thought he played well against that competition, that's as tough as it gets and would be satisfied that the kid is a player.

    [QUOTE]I just feel like you and some of the other posters are the opposite of what you claim me to be:

    - You say I always think "CS/Tanny said so, therefore it must be good"

    - And I say that you guys come across as "CS/Tanny are a bunch of bone heads who should be totally questioned on everything, all the time, until the proof is so irrefutable that to continue questioning it gets me labelled a Moron(tm)."[/QUOTE]

    Maybe you have me confused with someone else....I have no idea what your position is on anything other than the situation at hand. I love the front office and coaching staff. I happened to think this move was a questionable one. I didn't think that involved "hating". Nor did I call you anything close to a moron. You are doing a lot of over generalizing here.
    Last edited by crasherino; 10-04-2010 at 03:19 PM.

  15. #75
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    [QUOTE=Kentucky Jet;3764899]IMO it was a terrible post! It does not take into consideration that FANECA is a year older and two steps slower. nor does it say he is not worth 6 or 7 million per season. Arizona is a bad team? well it was in a Super Bowl two years ago. [/QUOTE]

    Two years ago, with Warner, Larry Fitz, Bolden, and a third WR(who's name escapes me). A huge difference then Derek Anderson throwing to Larry Fitz with nothing else.

    Slight difference:eek:

  16. #76
    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764928]no and I'll explain why

    besides the fact it's a 4 year deal and the jets will have much tougher games than Miami and Buffalo if they want to win a Super Bowl...

    the Revis signing sends a message to the locker room: if you play like a superstar, you will be rewarded. That motivation is priceless.

    to answer the other poster. yes I would take Faneca over Slauson today, if money were not a factor.

    the Jets romped on the Bills yesterday and that's great... but I dont know what this guy's upside is... Faneca is definitely declining. the question for me is where can Slauson ascend?[/QUOTE]

    You can't have it both ways, Bit.

    I know this is an exaggeration since it's only 4 games into the season but you were saying all summer Revis deserved a new contract because he outperformed his rookie deal.

    Well, 4 games in he is underperforming his $16M a yr deal. Again, it's only an exaggeration on my part since it's only 4 games..But good to see you change the parameters of things to meet your objective.

  17. #77
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    Just watch the 18 second mark and see why Faneca is gone...
    [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VKYZOez1aw&feature=related[/URL]

  18. #78
    [QUOTE=Borgoguy;3764545]How do you save $2 million by paying him $5 million and then releasing him? In my book, that's a $5 million dollar loss. Plus, you get no value from the player. No one will convince me that having Faneca on the team--even just as an insurance policy--was not worth an additional $2 million.[/QUOTE]

    You assume that he would have willingly accepted a back-up role, which is not likely true. I think the stone cold truth is Faneca's skills had diminished to the point that the money wasn't the issue...

  19. #79
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    [QUOTE=sourceworx;3764548]You don't make a guy of Faneca's stature compete with a guy who was a 5th rounder a year ago. We've had enough distractions so far this season. Forcing Faneca to compete for his job would have created another one (You seriously think he would have quietly sat on the bench?). The team needed to move on, and did. They ate his salary and allowed the younger player to take over the spot so he can be there long term.

    They made the only move they could without creating another problem.[/QUOTE]



    ... exactly right! ...


    ... :clapper: ... :clapper: ... :clapper: ... :clapper: ... :clapper: ...





    l_j_r

  20. #80
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    [QUOTE=Oldtime Jets fan;3764920]
    Faneca isn't staying here 5 years. we were forced to over pay him to replace the immortal Adrien Clarke, the FACT is that he is going to be paid to NOT be a Jet at SOME POINT in the future.

    I suppose we should keep him THIS year, so our 2nd year QB can get pressured, hit, and sacked alot, and THEN dump him next year when there is a salary cap again, so we can take a $5 million cap hit - that way our ability to resign quality young players will be even that much harder!!!! :cool4::thumbup:"

    [B][U][SIZE="4"][COLOR="Red"]Fortunately, Tanny then said: "Hmmm....Naaaaahhhh. I'll just cut him this year and take advantage of the un-capped year to avoid all that crap.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B] And who knows? Maybe if Callahan and Rex do not SUCK at their jobs, they might be right that Slauson or someone else can at least suck NO WORSE than Faneca". [/QUOTE]

    ... this also is very well said and accurate ...

    ... you can't just look at this season in a vaccuum ... in the salary-cap era nfl we were going to get dinged with the albatross of faneca's declining skills and exhorbitant salary at some point ...

    ... mikey t took the opportunity to do so this year where we have the get out of jail free card with their not being a cap this season ... they rolled the dice on what they had seen out of faneca as well as slausen regarding performance this season ...

    ... faneca's salary not impacting next years cap is directly related to our ability to keep the core four ...




    l_j_r

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