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Thread: Faneca Apologists ...

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=Borgoguy;3764520]As I said, I don't think Slausen beats him out. Make it a training camp competition. Guaranteed Faneca would have accepted those terms to be with a team he loved, and Super Bowl contender, rather than finding himself out in Arizona. Your "out of respect" comment is pure conjecture and, IMO, not the reason the Jets released Faneca. Only Mike T. can give you the real reason.[/QUOTE]

    Then you ought to open your eyes and watch the games. Slauson is growing better and better as he gains experience. further, we had TWO hundred yard rushers yestarday. Not too shabby I'd say. Faneca can not open a tuna fiish can these days and yet his apologists are still anti-Slausonites! Time for them to get over it. Slauson might never be an all-pro but he is a blue collar type of guy that will fight you intil the whistle blows. That s pretty darn good whether you agree or not! The proof is in the pudding! I refuse to doubt Mr.T's intent to make the team better! Faneca and his huge salary were just not worth it. Time for him to leave.

  2. #42
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    its disingenuous to point at the Jets record vs the Cards record and call that the be all and end all of this discussion.

    if the Jets had Derek Anderson, playing like he's playing right now, and the Cards had Mark Sanchez, playing like he's playing right now, the records would be different.

    I've said this before that LG isn't that important to the grand scheme of things, and neither is FS, and if these are our biggest problems, it's a stacked team...

    but let's look closely at the replacements.

    Alan Faneca is one of that team's best players, believe it or not. It's a bad team but still. that coaching staff doesn't wake up monday morning cursing Alan Faneca.

    Brodney Pool whiffed a couple times, while Kerry Rhodes had that team's only TD yesterday.

    Slauson has been exposed but he's getting better. I still believe 2009 OL is better than 2010's OL. But it's been offset by improvement at QB position. And while Slauson is improving... I still don't believe he wins a straight up training camp competition with Faneca.

    my point in all this is a player doesn't suddenly suck cause he's not a Jet. And a player isn't suddenly awesome cause the Jets play him. Pool and Slauson are acceptable but not as good as the players they replaced. That should be clear by now.
    Last edited by bitonti; 10-04-2010 at 12:11 PM.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764782]its disingenuous to point at the Jets record vs the Cards record and call that the be all and end all of this discussion.

    if the Jets had Derek Anderson, playing like he's playing right now, and the Cards had Mark Sanchez, playing like he's playing right now, the records would be different.

    I've said this before that LG isn't that important to the grand scheme of things, but let's look closely at the replacements.

    [B]Alan Faneca is one of that team's best players, believe it or not. It's a bad team but still. [/B]

    Brodney Pool whiffed a couple times, while Kerry Rhodes had that team's only TD yesterday.

    Slauson has been exposed but he's getting better. I still believe 2009 OL is better than 2010's OL. But it's been offset by improvement at QB position. And while Slauson is improving... I still don't believe he wins a straight up training camp competition with Faneca.[/QUOTE]

    No, he is not...

    There is a reason that the rest of the league basically passed on him and he signed for only 2.5 million. If he didn't have the Grimm/Whisenhunt connection, he may have not been signed at all for anything close to 2 mill. They brought him in for the same reason we still have T Rich.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=Borgoguy;3764550]So they "cut costs" by paying Faneca $5 million to walk out the door? And the $2 million they saved will be enough to fund those other contracts? If you just look at it logically, it makes no sense. I just wish Tanny would have come out and given the real reason Faneca is no longer on the team. I could have accepted that. But don't give me the "we're saving money" b.s. when we clearly threw away $5 million.[/QUOTE]

    Borgo, I love your Cyber-Satyr nature, but you're being a bit too obstinate with this Faneca issue.

    The ideas behind the release as I know them:

    1.) Faneca is clearly a player in decline. With the guarantees in salary that he was due in 2011 and 2012 (He was originally signed to a 5year, $40 mill contract), he simply was NOT worth the money long term.

    The Jets tried to get him to take a pay cut (i.e. Tanny and Rex AGREE with you that Faneca on the team would be worthwhile - just not at $7 million), but Faneca and his agent gambled on the $5mil guaranteed out of his 2010 $7 million salary that the Jets wouldn't have the balls to do that, and said no.

    Turns out Tanny/Woody/Rex have more than sufficient balls to do that.

    2.) With a declining Faneca on the roster, and with the "Core 4", plus B. Edwards, D.Keller, and several other players that they would like to keep, they decided to cut Faneca in 2010, when all the guaranteed monies he was due would NOT hit a Salary Cap, thereby preventing the Jets from making some of these key resignings in the future.

    Faneca, at SOME POINT, was going to be paid money to NOT be on the Jets. Management decided to take advantage of the un-capped year to do it NOW in 2010, rather than 1 or 2 years from now.

    3.) Faneca on the team = $7 million
    Faneca off the team = $5 million

    Totally savings in cash outlay = $2 million - (cost of replacement O-line: in this case Slauson, who is getting 6th round draft pick money = minimal cost).

    4.) Rumors have swirled around this message board that one of the reasons the Steelers let Faneca go was because he has a little bit of "Mawae/Kendall" disease. I don't know the truth of this, but to me, this is a "nail in the coffin" type deal, where if it is even a little bit true, I get him off my team with young impressionable players (Sanchez, Mangold, D'brick, S.Greene, D.Keller, etc) as fast as possible.


    -------------

    Personally, I had the same initial reaction that you did (We paid a guy $5mil to NOT be on the team? WTF?).

    But after reading about the Salary Cap implications, thinking about his declining play (particularly in regards to pass blocking, where he has turned into a TOTAL turnstile), and considering the other YOUNG guys that I would MUCH rather see resigned long term over giving money to Faneca (D. Harris, Edwards, Cromartie, Holmes, Keller) and I learned to accept it as a good business AND football decision.

    4 weeks into the season, it seems like Tanny and Co. have once again vindicated to the universe why they are in charge, while you and I are NOT in charge. :D

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764782]its disingenuous to point at the Jets record vs the Cards record and call that the be all and end all of this discussion.

    if the Jets had Derek Anderson, playing like he's playing right now, and the Cards had Mark Sanchez, playing like he's playing right now, the records would be different.

    I've said this before that LG isn't that important to the grand scheme of things, and neither is FS, and if these are our biggest problems, it's a stacked team...

    but let's look closely at the replacements.

    Alan Faneca is one of that team's best players, believe it or not. It's a bad team but still. that coaching staff doesn't wake up monday morning cursing Alan Faneca.

    Brodney Pool whiffed a couple times, while Kerry Rhodes had that team's only TD yesterday.

    Slauson has been exposed but he's getting better. I still believe 2009 OL is better than 2010's OL. But it's been offset by improvement at QB position. And while Slauson is improving... I still don't believe he wins a straight up training camp competition with Faneca.

    my point in all this is a player doesn't suddenly suck cause he's not a Jet. And a player isn't suddenly awesome cause the Jets play him. Pool and Slauson are acceptable but not as good as the players they replaced. That should be clear by now.[/QUOTE]

    Hey Bit, since Revis has missed 2+ games and hasn't done much shouldn't he redo his deal since he is overpaid at $16M this year....

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=KRL;3764522]The Jets saved at least $2 million by cutting Faneca and who wants to keep
    a $5 million backup lineman. You have to trust your coaches and Callahan
    believed in what Slauson could become. [B][U]To me the Faneca debate is dead[/U][/B],
    his decline is continuing and Slauson is improving[/QUOTE]

    Really? Then why start this thread?

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Untouchable;3764602]What the hell is this all about?

    We're coming off our third big win in a row, Sanchez is looking like a legit franchise QB, LT looks rejuvenated, our defense is still awesome....yet [B][B]I see threads about Alan Faneca and Kerry Rhodes?[/B][/B]

    F*ck both those guys. Their not on the team anymore, so who cares?

    [B]We still have one of the best OL's in the league without Faneca.[/B][/QUOTE]

    +1...move on...all the way to the Supe.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764782]its disingenuous to point at the Jets record vs the Cards record and call that the be all and end all of this discussion.

    if the Jets had Derek Anderson, playing like he's playing right now, and the Cards had Mark Sanchez, playing like he's playing right now, the records would be different.

    I've said this before that LG isn't that important to the grand scheme of things, and neither is FS, and if these are our biggest problems, it's a stacked team...

    but let's look closely at the replacements.

    Alan Faneca is one of that team's best players, believe it or not. It's a bad team but still. that coaching staff doesn't wake up monday morning cursing Alan Faneca.

    Brodney Pool whiffed a couple times, while Kerry Rhodes had that team's only TD yesterday.

    Slauson has been exposed but he's getting better. I still believe 2009 OL is better than 2010's OL. But it's been offset by improvement at QB position. And while Slauson is improving... I still don't believe he wins a straight up training camp competition with Faneca.

    my point in all this is a player doesn't suddenly suck cause he's not a Jet. And a player isn't suddenly awesome cause the Jets play him. Pool and Slauson are acceptable but not as good as the players they replaced. That should be clear by now.[/QUOTE]

    Wow.

    Bit, with a good good post?

    Who would'a thunk it?:D

  9. #49
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    From an Arizona Cardianls blog:


    [QUOTE]
    It is amazing how the following issues add up to equal our current situation. Let’s be objective and honest….talent evlauation and personell planning and coaching is hurting this team.

    I have been a fan since 1988, but we have to be objective about the real issues if they are going to be fixed. Especially the issues that no one wants to really say or be truthful about.

    [B]Issue #1: Taking care of old Steeler players that are past their prime.[/B]

    Issue #2: Brandon Keith is not a legitimate starting right tackle.

    Issue #3: Not getting a legitimate NFL QB is Graves fault. The organization should have made the Leinart decision back in March. They knew back then that the players did not support Leinart…..they know the truth…whether they will admit it or not. Whisenhunt woul have gotten rid of him long ago, but the Bidwells wanted to see their investment play. Derek Anderson and two rookies = losing season. This is a monumnetal organizational failure that could cause the AZ Cards to lose all of its positive momentum.

    Issue #4: OLB Speed – No pash rush due to two old steeler OLB’s that have no speed. Technique and discipline for outside containment is horrible. Joey Porter is getting beat and not tackling… and Haggans is overpursuing. No depth behind them to help…..player personnel failure. And I thought Bertrand and Chike were old.

    Issue #5: Billy Davis failed in SF. Now he is failing here. Norv Turner exposed him. The safties should have never been up on the LOS against Gates. Countless Bad defensive schematic decisions. Run defense is an attitude…Davis is not getting his guys ready to play…the defense looks sad.

    Issue #6: Punt Returns….Andre roberts looks scared.

    Issue #7: Penalties: we are the most heavily penalized team since 2007. That is squarely on Whisenhunt. Penalties = no discipline.

    Issue #8: We have no identity with our offensive philosophy. The running game has been decent….they need to continue to run the ball out of every formation possible.

    Issue #9: Kurt Warner covered for a lot of our team’s weaknesses.
    [B]
    Issue #10: Alan Faneca needs to be replaced with Rex Hadnot. Watch the film he is getting repeatedly beat on passing plays.[/B]

    Issue #11: Free agency was weak this year. So that hurt us.

    Issue #12: No Pass rush….non-existent. If campbell & docket are so great…then where is the production. Porter is at best a situational pash rusher now. Parcells knew this..which is why he let him go. We need young LB’s. Cody Brown is an example of talent evaluation failure at a position of need. obrien Schofield has potential, but the knee is a major risk.

    Issue #13: WR injuries…Fitz, Breaston, Doucet.

    Issue #14: Season ticket sales are going to drop off next year…either due to a work stoppage or because the team has digressed. Maybe playing in the NFC West will help.

    Just my thoughts…[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE]Ok, this was just ugly! What the hell was Whiz thinking when he made DA our starting QB. Why didn’t we try and get the other veterans that were out there? [B]FIRE Bill Davis, Cut Brandon Keith, DA, and Faneca. We all have seen that Faneca’s pro bowl days are over and seriously why is Keith still in the line up? We have a horrible O Line and MAAAAANNNN our Defense SUCKS.[/B] I’m so disappointed in our team and Whiz. We really have to thank KURT and T. HALEY because without those two we would have never won back to back division titles. One think I’m tired of is Whiz always saying we’re improving!!!!!!! REALLY!!! This is twice we have been blown out in the first four games. I can’t wait to see what the Saints have in store for us……[/QUOTE]

    There were other comments, and a Cardinals' message board had more. Not one Cardinal fan whose comments I read had anything positive to say about Faneca.

  10. #50
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    OK, some more:


    [QUOTE]2) The offensive line: [B]Faneca needs to be a back-up. There are reasons the Jets let him go and he is a liability at pass blocking. Rex Hadnot is better/meaner and appears to be very mobile based on his play in the preseason.[/B] Now Brandon Keith also seems overwhelmed and maybe Jermey Bridges can replace him. It is not a great fix but what choice do the cards have.[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE]BTW, Faneca sux…another bad coaching decision![/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE]Fortunately, Faneca’s contract is for only one year.[/QUOTE]

  11. #51
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    Last thing, Faneca DID get beat for at least 1 sack yesterday and could be credited with another. But even prior to yesterday's game where he gave up another sack (or multiple), Manish Mehta wrote this earlier last week:

    [QUOTE]Slauson said he has a long way to go to fill Alan Faneca's shoes. But the numbers suggest that he hasn't been a downgrade in pass protection.

    [B]According to ProFootballFocus.com, Faneca allowed six sacks, two hits and 15 pressures in 2009. In three games with the Cardinals this year, Faneca has given up one sack, one hit and an eye-opening 10 pressures on the quarterback. He gave up four pressures in Week 1, a sack, a hit and four pressures in Week 2 and a pair of pressures last week. His only penalty this season was declined.[/B]

    By comparison, Slauson has allowed two sacks, no hits and one pressure on Sanchez, according to ProFootballFocus.com. Last week, he committed three penalties, including a pair of critical holding calls that wiped out a completion that would have given the Jets the ball at the Miami 5, and Sanchez's touchdown scramble.


    Read more: [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2010/10/analysis-matt-slauson-isnt-a-d.html#ixzz11PQ28idG[/url][/QUOTE]

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764782]its disingenuous to point at the Jets record vs the Cards record and call that the be all and end all of this discussion.

    if the Jets had Derek Anderson, playing like he's playing right now, and the Cards had Mark Sanchez, playing like he's playing right now, the records would be different.

    I've said this before that LG isn't that important to the grand scheme of things, and neither is FS, and if these are our biggest problems, it's a stacked team...

    but let's look closely at the replacements.

    Alan Faneca is one of that team's best players, believe it or not. It's a bad team but still. that coaching staff doesn't wake up monday morning cursing Alan Faneca.

    Brodney Pool whiffed a couple times, while Kerry Rhodes had that team's only TD yesterday.

    Slauson has been exposed but he's getting better. I still believe 2009 OL is better than 2010's OL. But it's been offset by improvement at QB position. And while Slauson is improving... I still don't believe he wins a straight up training camp competition with Faneca.

    my point in all this is a player doesn't suddenly suck cause he's not a Jet. And a player isn't suddenly awesome cause the Jets play him. Pool and [B]Slauson are acceptable but not as good as the players they replaced. That should be clear by now[/B].[/QUOTE]

    Bit, you're wrong here....

    Let me propose this to you, with money [B]not[/B] a factor, [U]would you trade Slauson for Faneca straight up right now?[/U]

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=JMJ;3764829]From an [B][U][COLOR="Red"]Arizona Cardianls blog[/COLOR][/U][/B]:

    There were other comments, and a [B][U][COLOR="red"]Cardinals' message board[/COLOR][/U][/B] had more. Not one Cardinal fan whose comments I read had anything positive to say about Faneca.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, because we all know the things said in Blogs and Message Boards are always right?

    Lord knows, I am looking forward to seeing Patrck Ramsey lead our Jets to a Super Bowl.....

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3764782]its disingenuous to point at the Jets record vs the Cards record and call that the be all and end all of this discussion.

    if the Jets had Derek Anderson, playing like he's playing right now, and the Cards had Mark Sanchez, playing like he's playing right now, the records would be different.

    I've said this before that LG isn't that important to the grand scheme of things, and neither is FS, and if these are our biggest problems, it's a stacked team...

    but let's look closely at the replacements.

    Alan Faneca is one of that team's best players, believe it or not. It's a bad team but still. that coaching staff doesn't wake up monday morning cursing Alan Faneca.

    Brodney Pool whiffed a couple times, while Kerry Rhodes had that team's only TD yesterday.

    Slauson has been exposed but he's getting better. I still believe 2009 OL is better than 2010's OL. But it's been offset by improvement at QB position. And while Slauson is improving... I still don't believe he wins a straight up training camp competition with Faneca.

    my point in all this is a player doesn't suddenly suck cause he's not a Jet. And a player isn't suddenly awesome cause the Jets play him. Pool and Slauson are acceptable but not as good as the players they replaced. That should be clear by now.[/QUOTE]

    Just more of the usual::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz:

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=Yankeejet22;3764860]Bit, you're wrong here....

    Let me propose this to you, with money [B]not[/B] a factor, [U]would you trade Slauson for Faneca straight up right now?[/U][/QUOTE]

    Faneca is playing so bad in ARZ right now that he probably won't make it through the full season as a starter.

    He allowed 10 QB pressures in 3 games leading up to yesterday, and then gave up at minimum 1 sack yesterday and possible more.

    Faneca is a trainwreck right now at this point in his career.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=C Mart;3764816]Hey Bit, since Revis has missed 2+ games and hasn't done much shouldn't he redo his deal since he is overpaid at $16M this year....[/QUOTE]

    Don't expect a response on that - this is Bit you are talking about.

    The top notch quality poster, who

    1.) Talking out of one side of his face, says "Lets closely examine the replacements"

    2.) And then talking out of the other side of his face he cherry-picks one good play and says "Rhodes was responsible for his team's only TD", without bothering to mention the other 59 mins of game time where Carrie Ann was getting beaten like a red-headed step child.

    And doesn't even mention Faneca other than "coaches aren't waking up on Monday worrying about Faneca" - so apparently they aren't worrying about the ludicrous 10 pressures, 1 QB hit, and 1 sack he's given up already either BEFORE taking into account yesterday's 9 sack atrocity, of which I am sure Faneca has at least his fair share of suckage to contribute. :shakehead
    Last edited by Oldtime Jets fan; 10-04-2010 at 12:52 PM.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3764862]Yes, because we all know the things said in Blogs and Message Boards are always right?

    Lord knows, I am looking forward to seeing Patrck Ramsey lead our Jets to a Super Bowl.....[/QUOTE]

    What do you have to say about the stats Mehta posted last week?

    Faneca is done! DONE! Just accept it.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=JMJ;3764857]Last thing, Faneca DID get beat for at least 1 sack yesterday and could be credited with another. But even prior to yesterday's game where he gave up another sack (or multiple), Manish Mehta wrote this earlier last week:[/QUOTE]

    Please don't try to reason with the leading ANTI-SLAUSONITE. His mind is set and in his mind, he is always right. Slauson sucks and thats it! If Slauson happens to get voted into a pro bowl it will be a conspiracy of sorts! LOL:rolleyes:

  19. #59
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    If Slauson plays like he did yesterday for the rest of the year, than it was clearly a good move. Freeing up money, developing a new, younger player is obviously important.

    But, JMO, yesterday's game was against the JV of the NFL. Slauson has been inconsistent. If he has more of his multiple holding calls and whiffs as the season goes by, it won't be as clear a picture.

    I was not a fan of letting Faneca go, but I certainly hope I was wrong in that regard. I'm still not convinced just yet - but if next week yields the same or similar results, it will go a long long way to prove he belongs.

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3764827]Wow.

    Bit, with a good good post?

    Who would'a thunk it?:D[/QUOTE]

    IMO it was a terrible post! It does not take into consideration that FANECA is a year older and two steps slower. nor does it say he is not worth 6 or 7 million per season. Arizona is a bad team? well it was in a Super Bowl two years ago. Nor does BITONTI take into consideration that SLAUSON and POOL are new players. Slauson has played against top notch talent and has yielded two sacks in 4 games. He calls that bad and makes excuses for Faneca? He conveniently forgot to say that MANGOLD chose to help MOORE against GREGG rather then helping an inexperienced OG playing against Ngata. I know he thinks Ngata is nothing but he did get a sack yesterday vs Pittsburgh. POOL has a rookie on one side of him and a guy playing out of position on the other( CRO in for Mevis on the left side). He , too, is new to the scheme. Yet in his infinite wisdom he points out RHODES scored a TD so he is better then POOL. Gee POOL whiffed on two tackles yesterday. What about Rhodes? IMO it was a bad post espousing the usual nonsense and selectively dissing newer Jets that he does not like for his own reasons. With him the grass is always greener with players he likes and mud when he doesn't like a player. It would be refreshing to hear him say that he was wrong for a change rather then argue in the manner that he does.:eek:
    Last edited by Kentucky Jet; 10-04-2010 at 01:02 PM.

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