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Thread: A Question for my Conservative Friends

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    Question A Question for my Conservative Friends

    Leading up to the 2008 election there was a great fear by many of my conservative friends that Obama was too far to the extreme in his political idealogy. They feared for the future of our country because he was so far from being moderate. They were also equally worried about his lack of experience. Now fast forward to 2010 and take a look at some of the beliefs, and lack of experience, from the Tea Party candidates running for election. My question is this: If you are concerned about far-Left political candidates shouldn't far-right politicians be worrisome as well? And I am sure that there lack of experience is worrisome as well......

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    I was mainly worried about his lack of experience because, frankly, I had NO idea what his policies were (and, really... I still kind of don't).

    I was worried about his lack of experience as the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. I could care less about experience for a Senator or Congressman in a state I don't live in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    Leading up to the 2008 election there was a great fear by many of my conservative friends that Obama was too far to the extreme in his political idealogy. They feared for the future of our country because he was so far from being moderate. They were also equally worried about his lack of experience. Now fast forward to 2010 and take a look at some of the beliefs, and lack of experience, from the Tea Party candidates running for election. My question is this: If you are concerned about far-Left political candidates shouldn't far-right politicians be worrisome as well? And I am sure that there lack of experience is worrisome as well......
    NAME ONE far right candidate.

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    Presidential candidates for the most part always work the extreme prior to election and come more to center once elected, that's where the majority is for any candidate.

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    Interestingly, I'm reading a book right now called "Battle for America 2008", and it's a pretty good historical recap of the election. In it, Obama expressed to his aides several times that he was a little wary himself of running for President, because of his lack of experience, and because of his "15 minutes of fame" (his words) that came as a result of his speech at the 2004 DNC. It was Axelrod and the rest of his team who pushed him, saying that he had the opportunity to win in 2008 and it may never come again.

    Compare that to the excellent NY Times piece on him last weekend, and it's apparent that he was indeed wholly unprepared to be President -- maybe not on a policy standpoint, but definitely on a mental standpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    Presidential candidates for the most part always work the extreme prior to election and come more to center once elected, that's where the majority is for any candidate.
    That's also a good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    Leading up to the 2008 election there was a great fear by many of my conservative friends that Obama was too far to the extreme in his political idealogy. They feared for the future of our country because he was so far from being moderate. They were also equally worried about his lack of experience. Now fast forward to 2010 and take a look at some of the beliefs, and lack of experience, from the Tea Party candidates running for election. My question is this: If you are concerned about far-Left political candidates shouldn't far-right politicians be worrisome as well? And I am sure that there lack of experience is worrisome as well......
    I was concerned that people were overlooking all the signs that he wouldn't be a Clinton Democrat. Even after he was elected, I thought he would abandon the far left and move toward the center. That clearly hasn't happened.

    As for lack of experience: he seems to do/say a lot of knee-jerk stuff, which comes back to haunt him (closing Gitmo, Iraq withdrawal timetable, etc).

    Are you saying "far -right candidates" = "tea party candidates"? That's an incorrect assumption on your part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    Leading up to the 2008 election there was a great fear by many of my conservative friends that Obama was too far to the extreme in his political idealogy. They feared for the future of our country because he was so far from being moderate. They were also equally worried about his lack of experience. Now fast forward to 2010 and take a look at some of the beliefs, and lack of experience, from the Tea Party candidates running for election. My question is this: If you are concerned about far-Left political candidates shouldn't far-right politicians be worrisome as well? And I am sure that there lack of experience is worrisome as well......
    Conversely, Liberals supported Obama wholeheartedly, despite his lack of experience, and because of their faith in his liberal ideology. They also supported him despite holding a number of similarly controversial personal friends (Rev. Wright and a numeber of others) and holding some views considered extreme by the mainstream (socialist theory/redistribution of wealth).

    My answer then is this:

    These types of potential issues didn't bug you all at all when it was Obama. Other than the fact they lean right, why do they suddenly bug you now?

    To answer your question, the Tea Party members lack of elected office experience (many have plenty of real world experience) is less important as they will be a small part fo a much larger system.

    Obama is one man, in a position of massive power and influence. All the Tea Party members combined will wield not 1/100th of the power of teh President. As such, it is inherantly less risky to try out new ideas/new people in Congress, than it is to try an inexperienced newcomer at the most poerfuls ingle political position on planet Earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    I was concerned that people were overlooking all the signs that he wouldn't be a Clinton Democrat. Even after he was elected, I thought he would abandon the far left and move toward the center. That clearly hasn't happened.

    As for lack of experience: he seems to do/say a lot of knee-jerk stuff, which comes back to haunt him (closing Gitmo, Iraq withdrawal timetable, etc).

    Are you saying "far -right candidates" = "tea party candidates"? That's an incorrect assumption on your part.
    As a member of the so called "far-left" , i do not consider his policies left at all. In fact this has been part of why im dissapointed in him. People on the Right keep saying he "rammed his health care policy down Americas throats" they even call it "Obamacare". The truth is, "obamacare" was based on the public option. He caved in to the Right and moderate Dems and took out the public option. He COMPROMISED. Something a member of the "far left" or any Republican would not have done.

    His lack of experience has shown through. I think that has been disappointing as well. Still, I shudder to think of what would happen under the alternative McCain/Palin administration.

    BTW Iraq withdrawal is not a knee jerk reaction. Its the smart well thought out plan to counteract a disasterous, mindless, expensive, needless war started by the previous administration. I only wish he treated Afghanistan the same way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Conversely, Liberals supported Obama wholeheartedly, despite his lack of experience, and because of their faith in his liberal ideology. They also supported him despite holding a number of similarly controversial personal friends (Rev. Wright and a numeber of others) and holding some views considered extreme by the mainstream (socialist theory/redistribution of wealth).

    My answer then is this:

    These types of potential issues didn't bug you all at all when it was Obama. Other than the fact they lean right, why do they suddenly bug you now?

    To answer your question, the Tea Party members lack of elected office experience (many have plenty of real world experience) is less important as they will be a small part fo a much larger system.

    Obama is one man, in a position of massive power and influence. All the Tea Party members combined will wield not 1/100th of the power of teh President. As such, it is inherantly less risky to try out new ideas/new people in Congress, than it is to try an inexperienced newcomer at the most poerfuls ingle political position on planet Earth.
    Of course his inexperience bothered me. I couldnt care less about his friendships with Rev Wright and i dont consider his stances as extreme in any way. LOL! Extreme, please fish, give me a break. Having the alternativ viewpoint to what you believe in is not extreme.

    But the reason i supported him is because I found the alternative , a McCain/Palin administration nightmarishly frightening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    Of course his inexperience bothered me. I couldnt care less about his friendships with Rev Wright and i dont consider his stances as extreme in any way. LOL! Extreme, please fish, give me a break. Having the alternativ viewpoint to what you believe in is not extreme.
    We can agree to disagree. I find support for Socialism/Communism fiscal policy, Massive Govt. Spending and Entitlement Programs, support for Amnesty, Cap & Trade energy policy, and his focus on "Green Jobs" and his horrible (IMO) handling of Race Relation and Islamic Threat issues all to be "extreme" to some degree or another.

    But the reason i supported him is because I found the alternative , a McCain/Palin administration nightmarishly frightening.

    I shudder to think of what would happen under the alternative McCain/Palin administration.
    I wonder what you think would be so different under a McCain Administration? Honestly, end of the day I think the two would have been VERY similar in real-world-results terms.
    Last edited by Warfish; 10-20-2010 at 03:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post

    I wonder what you think would be so different under a McCain Administration? Honestly, end of the day I think the two would have been VERY similar in real-world-results terms.
    I agree. People keep saying "McCain/Palin", like Palin would be in the Oval Office everyday dictating policy. There is NO WAY McCain would have stood for that -- he's been in Washington long enough to know what her place would have been: on the road every day saying goofy things, just like the current VP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post



    I wonder what you think would be so different under a McCain Administration? Honestly, end of the day I think the two would have been VERY similar in real-world-results terms.
    For starters, we would continue to be pouring American dollars and blood down that black hole known as Iraq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    For starters, we would continue to be pouring American dollars and blood down that black hole known as Iraq.
    Exactly my point, thank you.

    We still have Soldiers in Iraq today, and are still spending buckets of money in Iraq today. McCain may have called it something else, or used different terminology, but the real-world result would have (IMO) been VERY similar. And end to active combat operations, trasfer to Iraqis of more responsabillity, and a continued U.S. millitary and fiscal presence. And of course there would be almost no differences in our "other black hole", Afganistan/Pakistan.

    Same goes for Gitmo. It's being phased out (in theory), it isn't closed yet. And the vast majority held there are still held, with no sign they won't continue to be held, trials or not. Only difference is where they'll be held down the road, Obama likes Illinois, McCain probably would have kept it outside teh continental U.S., but under similar policies of treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post

    I wonder what you think would be so different under a McCain Administration? Honestly, end of the day I think the two would have been VERY similar in real-world-results terms.
    not on the economic front...

    even in the debates when McCain called for a spending freeze obama responded that "john is calling for a hatchet when a scapel is needed", letting on he had no interest in cutting spending...

    most of obama's supporters from '08 would love to have that scapel now to slit their wrists....

    as far as the question is concerned, sorry- see no parrallels....there's a big difference in the POTUS and a congresswoman from NY19 or a senator from Nevada...b

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    Leading up to the 2008 election there was a great fear by many of my conservative friends that Obama was too far to the extreme in his political idealogy. They feared for the future of our country because he was so far from being moderate. They were also equally worried about his lack of experience. Now fast forward to 2010 and take a look at some of the beliefs, and lack of experience, from the Tea Party candidates running for election. My question is this: If you are concerned about far-Left political candidates shouldn't far-right politicians be worrisome as well? And I am sure that there lack of experience is worrisome as well......
    I believed that Obama, being in his short political career the most liberal senator in Washington and a "community organizer" (whatever the f that is) before that, was totally inexperienced.

    I also knew, however, that great men rise to the occasion; I couldn't deny that Obama's rise was meteoric, so deep down I kind of expected him to eventually display political chops.

    Holy moly, I couldn't have been more wrong about that. Praise him to be the smartest President all you want, but he's governed like a total idiot. You can tell me how wrong I am on Nov 5th.

    Now, for far-right politicians ... would probably be best if you named one, instead of brushing them all with the same stroke.

    I don't fear Rand Paul at all, if that helps. To think a guy like that as a member of the Senate as something to fear is silly.

    Don't forget - we've been through the worst.

    President Obama and his transformative policy of health care is more than disaster enough to create a sea change in American politics - and he won't be in a position to do so ever again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Only difference is where they'll be held down the road, Obama likes Illinois, McCain probably would have kept it outside teh continental U.S., but under similar policies of treatment.
    How about 500 feet under the Gulf of Mexico?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sackdance View Post
    I believed that Obama, being in his short political career the most liberal senator in Washington and a "community organizer" (whatever the f that is) before that, was totally inexperienced.

    I also knew, however, that great men rise to the occasion; I couldn't deny that Obama's rise was meteoric, so deep down I kind of expected him to eventually display political chops.

    Holy moly, I couldn't have been more wrong about that. Praise him to be the smartest President all you want, but he's governed like a total idiot. You can tell me how wrong I am on Nov 5th.

    Now, for far-right politicians ... would probably be best if you named one, instead of brushing them all with the same stroke.

    I don't fear Rand Paul at all, if that helps. To think a guy like that as a member of the Senate as something to fear is silly.

    Don't forget - we've been through the worst.

    President Obama and his transformative policy of health care is more than disaster enough to create a sea change in American politics - and he won't be in a position to do so ever again.

    Obama the most liberal senator??? Ha Ha Ha!! Russ Feingold says hi!!

    Just out of curiosity? What is it about "Obamacare" that you dislike so much?Specifically, what is it that you find so "transformative" and what would you have liked to seen in a new health care bill or do you like the status quo??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    not on the economic front...

    even in the debates when McCain called for a spending freeze
    I don't believe McCain would have frozen, or cut, total Government spending in any form whatsoever.

    I do believe, however, that he WOULD have passed some form of "Comprehensive Immigration Reform", something akin to all-but-amnesty.

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    Just out of curiosity? What is it about "Obamacare" that you dislike so much?Specifically, what is it that you find so "transformative" and what would you have liked to seen in a new health care bill or do you like the status quo??
    The State mandating the Citizens purchase a private product (insurance) or else. See VA vs. USA lawsuit.
    Last edited by Warfish; 10-20-2010 at 05:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    Leading up to the 2008 election there was a great fear by many of my conservative friends that Obama was too far to the extreme in his political idealogy. They feared for the future of our country because he was so far from being moderate. They were also equally worried about his lack of experience. Now fast forward to 2010 and take a look at some of the beliefs, and lack of experience, from the Tea Party candidates running for election. My question is this: If you are concerned about far-Left political candidates shouldn't far-right politicians be worrisome as well? And I am sure that there lack of experience is worrisome as well......
    Are you actually comparing an inexperienced President to a Congressman or Senator? At best there will be a change in leadership in the House to a very experienced Republican Congressman. The Senate will be locked up.

    None of these "extremists" inexperienced first timers will be in position of leadership.

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