Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 76

Thread: Cam Newton

  1. #41
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,028
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    and let's not forget Jimmy Clausen sucks. As for risk... i don't see why Nick Fairley or Da'Quan Bowers are safer picks than Cam Newton. All 3 players are basically 1 year wonders.

    If we are talking about cameron jordan going #1 ok fair enough that's a safe pick. Fairley is not any safer than Newton.
    I'm not sure if there is any correlation between number of starts in college and success in the Pros for a DT as there is for a QB. If you want to call Sanchez a one year wonder in college, I'll buy that. Fairley's strength and athleticism are what they are - he may have character issues that are concerning, but for the most part, his teams will know what his abilities are. He doesn't the time to develop like a QB with shaky mechanics does.

    But, he's a safer pick than Newton because if you bust with a DT No. 1 overall, you don't set your franchise back 5 years. If you bust with a QB at #1, its Katy Bar the Door. You're Fuked. See, eg JaMarcus Russell and Alex Smith.

  2. #42
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,407
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I'm not sure if there is any correlation between number of starts in college and success in the Pros for a DT as there is for a QB. If you want to call Sanchez a one year wonder in college, I'll buy that. Fairley's strength and athleticism are what they are - he may have character issues that are concerning, but for the most part, his teams will know what his abilities are. He doesn't the time to develop like a QB with shaky mechanics does.

    But, he's a safer pick than Newton because if you bust with a DT No. 1 overall, you don't set your franchise back 5 years. If you bust with a QB at #1, its Katy Bar the Door. You're Fuked. See, eg JaMarcus Russell and Alex Smith.
    1- Sanchez was not a one year wonder in the sense he started several games as a sophomore and played incredibly well...

    2- anyone who claims Bowers is a "one year wonder" does not pay much attention to CFB....

    3- your point about a #1 d-lineman not setting a frachise back compared to that possibility of a #1-QB doing as much is 1000% right and you could expaned that to early picks....people like ryan leaf get coaches and gm's fired while the vernon gholstons of the world are a blip on the screen...

  3. #43
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    even if we concede "safe" for the sake of argument, if Suh didn't go #1 then no DT is worth that pick.

    the panthers can be "safe" draft a defender and still suck balls next year. They need a franchise QB. last year I thought the Rams should take the safe pick Suh but they didn't and it turns out they were right.
    Last edited by bitonti; 02-11-2011 at 11:28 AM.

  4. #44
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,028
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    even if we concede "safe" for the sake of argument, if Suh didn't go #1 then no DT is worth that pick.

    the panthers can be "safe" draft a defender and still suck balls next year. They need a franchise QB. last year I thought the Rams should take the safe pick Suh but they didn't and it turns out they were right.
    Whatever Cam Newton is going to be, we pretty much know that its not going to be rookie All Pro. Whether his ultimate destination is HoF or scrap heap, everyone will concede that he's not NFL ready. He's a physical specimen that few have seen, but he's quite raw. They can still suck with Fairley, but they will undoubtedly suck with Newton. Probably in 2012 as well.

    Going "safe" with Suh (as opposed to Bradford) vs. going safe with Fairley (as opposed to Newton) is two different things entirely. There may have been a legit debate as to whether Bradford was worthy of the #1 pick when a beast like Suh was available. But, I don't think there were questions as to whether Bradford was NFL ready like there are with Newton. Bradford was a polished top QB prospect. Newton is an amazing athlete that plays QB.

    Sure team's look at the upside that a prospect presents, but they also look at the downside. If they take Newton and he doesn't pan out, we may be looking at the LA Panthers (I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.)

  5. #45
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    He's a physical specimen that few have seen, but he's quite raw. They can still suck with Fairley, but they will undoubtedly suck with Newton. Probably in 2012 as well.
    lets get one thing out of the way, Jimmy Clausen is awful. There's no reason why a new coach would look at Clausen and say "this is my QB of the future" - he dropped out of the first for a reason and that reason is he's not good.

    JMO They win way more games with Newton (or Gabbert) than with Fairley. Remember this team was 2-14 and QB play was a huge reason why. It wasn't the DT play that held this team to 2 wins. Heck they win more games with Locker than Fairley. This team needs a QB very badly.

    I also think people are underrating Newton's ability. He's better as a passer than Vince Young, who went 3. He's probably comparable (if not better) than Russell who went 1. Why is he at 10 and 13 in all these mock drafts? I don't get it.

  6. #46
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    7,078
    Post Thanks / Like
    I agree with Bit's logic on this one.

    If the guy is widely considered a top 10-15 prospect (I don't know if this is actually true) then he is absolutely in consideration for #1 overall because Carolina is desperate for a QB.

  7. #47
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    21,152
    Post Thanks / Like
    A lot depends on how good this Gabbert guy is though. Take the QB at #1? Sure just make sure you take the right one. (Alex Smith vs Aaron Rogers)

  8. #48
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,028
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I agree with Bit's logic on this one.

    If the guy is widely considered a top 10-15 prospect (I don't know if this is actually true) then he is absolutely in consideration for #1 overall because Carolina is desperate for a QB.
    There are other ways to find a QB besides gambling the whole franchise on a guy like Newton.

    How about Newton 1.0, in the form of Vince Young?

    Honestly, if I'm Carolina and I'm debating Newton vs. Fairley, I'd rather go through 2011 with Clausen and set the franchise up for Andrew Luck. If you take a QB with the #1 overall pick, you have to figure that you're stuck with him for the next 5 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    A lot depends on how good this Gabbert guy is though. Take the QB at #1? Sure just make sure you take the right one. (Alex Smith vs Aaron Rogers)
    That's assuming that Rogers would be the QB that we see today if he went to the 49ers and started in his first or even second year.
    Last edited by crasherino; 02-11-2011 at 04:14 PM.

  9. #49
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    7,078
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    There are other ways to find a QB besides gambling the whole franchise on a guy like Newton.

    How about Newton 1.0, in the form of Vince Young?

    Honestly, if I'm Carolina and I'm debating Newton vs. Fairley, I'd rather go through 2011 with Clausen and set the franchise up for Andrew Luck. If you take a QB with the #1 overall pick, you have to figure that you're stuck with him for the next 5 years..
    Honestly, the statement in bold is just flat out moronic. They either believe in Claussen or they don't. They have Newton ranked higly or they don't. But they are 100% not drafting a guy this year and thinking about Andrew Luck in 2012.

    If Newton is the 8th overall on their board, ahead of Gabbert, I don't see how they could pass him up.

    Vince Young is another option and would probably be a pretty good fit there.

  10. #50
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,028
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Honestly, the statement in bold is just flat out moronic. They either believe in Claussen or they don't. They have Newton ranked higly or they don't. But they are 100% not drafting a guy this year and thinking about Andrew Luck in 2012.

    If Newton is the 8th overall on their board, ahead of Gabbert, I don't see how they could pass him up.

    Vince Young is another option and would probably be a pretty good fit there.
    I'm not suggesting the literal choice of going for Luck next year by selecting Fairley (and either go with Clausen or find another QB - VY or otherwise). But, thats in a sense what would be a possibility by taking Fairley. Do you really think that Newton is #1 on their board? They obviously have a need, but taking Newton first to sell tickets (in Bit's opinion) will potentially cripple the franchise.

    Its one thing to be a project as a mid/late first rounder. Its another thing to be a project as a 1st overall pick getting $35+ million guaranteed. Factor in that the lockout will probably kill most OTAs and its safe to say that no rookie QB is starting in 2011.

    If they have Newton in the 10-15 range on their board, I highly doubt they are taking him first, whether its a need or not.

  11. #51
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    7,078
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I'm not suggesting the literal choice of going for Luck next year by selecting Fairley (and either go with Clausen or find another QB - VY or otherwise). But, thats in a sense what would be a possibility by taking Fairley. Do you really think that Newton is #1 on their board? They obviously have a need, but taking Newton first to sell tickets (in Bit's opinion) will potentially cripple the franchise.

    Its one thing to be a project as a mid/late first rounder. Its another thing to be a project as a 1st overall pick getting $35+ million guaranteed. Factor in that the lockout will probably kill most OTAs and its safe to say that no rookie QB is starting in 2011.

    If they have Newton in the 10-15 range on their board, I highly doubt they are taking him first, whether its a need or not.
    I honestly have no idea where Newton is on their board, but this is a posting from CBNY's website...

    Last week in San Antonio at least six different teams said they rank Auburn quarterback Cam Newton as the number one prospect in the draft. The opinions were comprised from scouts, personnel directors and a few coaches. All had Newton rated clearly higher than Da’Quan Bowers, Nick Fairley, Marcel Dareus and competing signal caller Blaine Gabbert.
    To me, this means Newton is much better than many draftnicks are giving him credit for, and considering the facts here... Carolina needs a QB more than any other position and they also have a new HC (new HCs draft QBs in the 1st) all signs are pointing to Newton going 1st overall.

  12. #52
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,348
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Honestly, the statement in bold is just flat out moronic. They either believe in Claussen or they don't. They have Newton ranked higly or they don't. But they are 100% not drafting a guy this year and thinking about Andrew Luck in 2012.

    If Newton is the 8th overall on their board, ahead of Gabbert, I don't see how they could pass him up.

    Vince Young is another option and would probably be a pretty good fit there.
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if Newton went #1 overall to the Panthers. Young is definitely an option for Carolina but they won't be the only team going after him this off-season. The Niners and Cardinals are also teams that could and should also be trying to trade for him.

  13. #53
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    745
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Honestly, the statement in bold is just flat out moronic. They either believe in Claussen or they don't. They have Newton ranked higly or they don't. But they are 100% not drafting a guy this year and thinking about Andrew Luck in 2012.

    If Newton is the 8th overall on their board, ahead of Gabbert, I don't see how they could pass him up.

    Vince Young is another option and would probably be a pretty good fit there.
    Especially when the world is going to end in 2012 Teams have to play for the NOW!

  14. #54
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    21,152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    There are other ways to find a QB besides gambling the whole franchise on a guy like Newton.

    How about Newton 1.0, in the form of Vince Young?

    Honestly, if I'm Carolina and I'm debating Newton vs. Fairley, I'd rather go through 2011 with Clausen and set the franchise up for Andrew Luck. If you take a QB with the #1 overall pick, you have to figure that you're stuck with him for the next 5 years.



    That's assuming that Rogers would be the QB that we see today if he went to the 49ers and started in his first or even second year.
    Rogers and Smith were very close, neck and neck up until close to the draft when Smith wowed them with his total athletic package and Rogers fell way lower than expected. My point is that the panthers need as qb but the more desperate a team is the more attractive the number one guy looks at times. They best be careful.

  15. #55
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    21,152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Honestly, the statement in bold is just flat out moronic. They either believe in Claussen or they don't. They have Newton ranked higly or they don't. But they are 100% not drafting a guy this year and thinking about Andrew Luck in 2012.

    If Newton is the 8th overall on their board, ahead of Gabbert, I don't see how they could pass him up.

    Vince Young is another option and would probably be a pretty good fit there.
    I disagree, you do what the jets have done and what teams like houston did not do. Build the rest of the team then add the QB. There are nfl worthy qb's in almost every year. It's a huge mistake to lunge too quick for a qb just because you need one and there is a top ranked one out there.

    It starts to get pretty easy to up the value of a player because of need but that is a mistake. Also don't get too seduced by the recent success of one QB style. Vick succeeds this past year so now the running do it all qb is back in vogue.

  16. #56
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    7,078
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    I disagree, you do what the jets have done and what teams like houston did not do. Build the rest of the team then add the QB. There are nfl worthy qb's in almost every year. It's a huge mistake to lunge too quick for a qb just because you need one and there is a top ranked one out there.

    It starts to get pretty easy to up the value of a player because of need but that is a mistake. Also don't get too seduced by the recent success of one QB style. Vick succeeds this past year so now the running do it all qb is back in vogue.
    First of all, I'm not thinking about QB styles or Vick's success at all, and I don't think many others are either.

    Secondly, teams like Miami are kicking themselves right now for passing on Matt Ryan. Alex Smith and JaMarcus Russell didn't work out as #1 picks. Josh Freeman are guys who were passed up and turned out to be very good players. It works both ways.

    The truth is, there is no right or wrong way to build a team. What it comes down to is this: is Newton a The Guy? If Carolina thinks so, they won't pass him up. Apparently, several other teams think he is, so take that for what it's worth.

  17. #57
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    21,152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    First of all, I'm not thinking about QB styles or Vick's success at all, and I don't think many others are either.

    Secondly, teams like Miami are kicking themselves right now for passing on Matt Ryan. Alex Smith and JaMarcus Russell didn't work out as #1 picks. Josh Freeman are guys who were passed up and turned out to be very good players. It works both ways.

    The truth is, there is no right or wrong way to build a team. What it comes down to is this: is Newton a The Guy? If Carolina thinks so, they won't pass him up. Apparently, several other teams think he is, so take that for what it's worth.
    Oh I know you weren't referring to QB styles but that does come into who or what type of player is in vogue. If vick was terrible this year and Tebow was so so to go along with vince young, more people would be saying that newton was just another athlete. Also just because Miami didn't draft a Qb who ended up being good doesn't mean the panthers should draft a Qb no matter what. Like I said there are QB's worthy of being drafed high pretty well every year. Don't get trapped into drafting guys who really don't belong there. I'm not saying Newton is worthy or not at this point but as stated by others if you screw up at QB you are doomed for a number of years.

  18. #58
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    I'm not saying Newton is worthy or not at this point but as stated by others if you screw up at QB you are doomed for a number of years.
    the panthers are already doomed thats why they are picking #1. like the rams last year they have to try to turn it around. unless you are drafting Lawrence Taylor there's no defenders that can turn it around.

  19. #59
    All League
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,042
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    First you have to see how the Qb situation around the league shakes out. Lets see what veteran Qb becomes available. Im watching the Bengal Qb situation closely. Carson Palmer has looked very shaky this year but I defintely roll the dice on him- he looks like he needs a serious change of scenery. Dolphins go Qb with their first pick and what future does chad Henne have there.

    With that said, IF Cam Newton is still on board when raiders pick in the second, you would have to take him. Raiders are really just a Center away from completing their oline. They are incredible young at all the skill positions on offense. Let the qb grow with these young players.
    Dude gimme a break And I just laughed at ur previous PM to me now run along little girl

  20. #60
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    21,152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    the panthers are already doomed thats why they are picking #1. like the rams last year they have to try to turn it around. unless you are drafting Lawrence Taylor there's no defenders that can turn it around.
    Back in 2006 or so the NY Jets should have drafted Jay Cutler or Matt Leinart, because they were doomed and should have gone for the best QB out there......wait no, it was far better to get a franchise LT and then take a franchise Center at the end of the round.

    If a team is a long way from being good build up the lines, build up other areas and then get your QB of which there are a few in pretty well every draft. Hey if they think Cam Newton is a 100% franchise guy then by all means go after him but if you miss with him you can't draft Luck next year if you end up lassst again, you can't draft the best qb, the next year or the year after.

    If you fail with another position ala gholston it hurts bad but not as bad as a QB.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us