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Thread: Cam Newton

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    even if we concede "safe" for the sake of argument, if Suh didn't go #1 then no DT is worth that pick.

    the panthers can be "safe" draft a defender and still suck balls next year. They need a franchise QB. last year I thought the Rams should take the safe pick Suh but they didn't and it turns out they were right.
    That's a silly argument though, considering he's not competing against Suh. He's competing against people in the 2011 draft class, and there's no better prospect in this class then Fairley, IMO. I'd still take Suh over him though, but again, they're not competing against each other.

    Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton is not Sam Bradford, reaching on the best available QB simply because you need a QB is what causes teams to end up with Alex Smith.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton is not Sam Bradford
    if i had the Rams decision to make I wouldn't have taken a Qb who missed a whole year with a shoulder injury.

    But i did learn from that cause the Rams were right to try to get better. they won more games with that Bradford pick than if they had taken Suh... even a dominant suh doesnt' change that Rams team on sunday.

    The Panthers have to try to get better and it starts at QB.

    Neither player is perfect if they draft Newton or Gabbert they will win more than 2 games next year. Newton has star potential, whether it happens or not a team has to try to get better.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    if i had the Rams decision to make I wouldn't have taken a Qb who missed a whole year with a shoulder injury.
    If his medicals check out, and he's the best player in the draft, you absolutely should. That was the case with Bradford.

    But i did learn from that cause the Rams were right to try to get better. they won more games with that Bradford pick than if they had taken Suh... even a dominant suh doesnt' change that Rams team on sunday.

    The Panthers have to try to get better and it starts at QB.

    Neither player is perfect if they draft Newton or Gabbert they will win more than 2 games next year. Newton has star potential, whether it happens or not a team has to try to get better.
    The Panthers get better by taking the best player available, that player, at least in my opinion, is not Cam Newton, and it's certaintly not Blaine Gabbert. At least in my own QB evaluations, neither is even worthy of a Top 10 pick.

    Yeah, not having a QB sucks. But what you're talking about is the kind of logic that leads to an Alex Smith selection, someone who obviously isn't the best player in his draft being over drafted because a team needs a QB and he's the best one there (aside from that whole Aaron Rodgers guy), and then predictably not living up to that selection. And there's other methods they could pursue a stopgap QB if they've soured on Clausen that much. McNabb and Palmer should come available at some point, or you could call the Eagles about Kolb, point is, their choices aren't necessarily limited to Newton/Gabbard vs Clausen.

  4. #64
    here's a legit question whens the last time we've seen a QB prospect as athletic and gifted as Newton? He's 6'6" 250 with a rocket arm. No it's not the be all and end all... but the way the draft works, if there's a physical prototype at any position that player goes very high. If it's a prototype at QB he goes #1.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    here's a legit question whens the last time we've seen a QB prospect as athletic and gifted as Newton? He's 6'6" 250 with a rocket arm. No it's not the be all and end all... but the way the draft works, if there's a physical prototype at any position that player goes very high. If it's a prototype at QB he goes #1.
    Bit I agree with your overall points on newton, he has to be considered for Carolina simpley because of the position, the need, and his huge upside.

    Unfortunately the answer to your question about the last time we saw a QB with the arm/size of Newton, the answer would be Jamarcus Russel, and we all know how that turned out....

    Its a very difficult position for Carolina to be in....miss on newton and it could take a couple years to find a real QB. Take him #1 and he winds up being a bad NFL QB and they are also set back for years.

    Hopefully their scouts are good. I read all about his workout the other day, but also read that he rarely has to go through an NFL type progression and read a defense. The key is if he cares enough to put the time in to learn it.

    Fortunately when you are 6'6 and can run, all that other stuff will be a lot easier to execute.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    here's a legit question whens the last time we've seen a QB prospect as athletic and gifted as Newton? He's 6'6" 250 with a rocket arm. No it's not the be all and end all... but the way the draft works, if there's a physical prototype at any position that player goes very high. If it's a prototype at QB he goes #1.
    Vince Young?

    And I'm well aware that QB's get overdrafted, but overdrafting Cam Newton this much just reeks of a major reach. He got away by being the far and away best athlete on the field in college, in the pros he's going to have to learn how to read coverages, make progressions, and play a completely different style game to that which he's used to. I also question his mechanics and accuracy, quite frankly. 1st rounder, sure. 1st overall, hardly. Just my opinion though.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    Vince Young?

    And I'm well aware that QB's get overdrafted, but overdrafting Cam Newton this much just reeks of a major reach. He got away by being the far and away best athlete on the field in college, in the pros he's going to have to learn how to read coverages, make progressions, and play a completely different style game to that which he's used to. I also question his mechanics and accuracy, quite frankly. 1st rounder, sure. 1st overall, hardly. Just my opinion though.
    The only way I think Carolina considers taking Newton is if they think that the rookie salary structure will be radically altered to the point that they won't have to commit $35m+ in guarantees. If they are not beholden to him for that much money, I think they consider it. Missing on that pick though, with that much money involved, will ensure that the Panthers have under 6 wins for the next 5 years.

    The Panthers, when healthy, aren't terrible. They got decimated with injuries and they had a rookie QB who was ill prepared for the NFL. I don't know that they've 100% given up on Clausen, but assuming they have, there are other options for the QB spot. If they get a vet to come in, steady the team, hand the ball off to Jonathan Stewart a whole bunch, they can start building the team back up and bide their time for a QB in the future.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    Vince Young?

    And I'm well aware that QB's get overdrafted, but overdrafting Cam Newton this much just reeks of a major reach.
    yeah and vince Young went 3 and won OROY. many people loathed that player but he still went very high.

    Newton is a better prospect than Young... i don't see how he fits in the draft at 10 or 12 overall.

    as a side note I think it's a lazy comparison to compare Newton to young or even Russell. He's closer to Big Ben. Newton ran alot but he's not a runner (designed QB draws). in fact college recruiters had a knock on him they wondered if he was "just" a pocket passer and whether he'd be willing to run. Now 4 years later nfl scouts wonder if he's only a runner. I think he's not easy to characterize and that's the sign of a special athlete.

  9. #69
    Bit I do find myself agreeing with you in that Newton is slightly underrated...that said as long as he goes before 30 I don't really give a damn about him.

  10. #70
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    Cam says he's going to fully participate at the combine...

    Is he going to kill it or blow it?

  11. #71
    for sure he has the tools.the only doubt I have.does he have the head for pro football headwise.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jets rooter View Post
    for sure he has the tools.the only doubt I have.does he have the head for pro football headwise.
    i think he does....had a lot of sh!t swirling around him and did not crack under the pressure last year...

    here's the thing- does he have the ability to break down his mechanics and consistently throw with proper fundamentals???

    when you really break him down he'll make amazing passes that 3% of the QB's in the league can- powering the ball through a tight window, between three defenders where only his guy can make the catch....

    the he'll toss of the next five throws in which the security guard on the sidelines looked like he was the intended target...

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    i think he does....had a lot of sh!t swirling around him and did not crack under the pressure last year...

    here's the thing- does he have the ability to break down his mechanics and consistently throw with proper fundamentals???

    when you really break him down he'll make amazing passes that 3% of the QB's in the league can- powering the ball through a tight window, between three defenders where only his guy can make the catch....

    the he'll toss of the next five throws in which the security guard on the sidelines looked like he was the intended target...
    How bad are his mechanics, when you really break him down? Correctable? Everyone concedes that he's a freak athlete, but being a freak athlete is somewhat wasted at QB.

    (although a buddy of mine who's hung out with Doug Flutie a bunch has regaled me with tales of his athletic awesomeness, so maybe I'm off base on that....).

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    How bad are his mechanics, when you really break him down? Correctable? Everyone concedes that he's a freak athlete, but being a freak athlete is somewhat wasted at QB.
    his mechanics are downright awesome compared to Tebow and Vince Young. He throws off his back foot occasionally but that's what Qbs have to do sometimes.

    People are conflating the personal issues with the athletic issues. He might be a laptop stealing money taker but he's a hell of a quarterback, and dare I say it UNDER-RATED. no way this dude goes 12 or 15. he's an elite athlete and an elite pick.

  15. #75

    Cam

    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    People are conflating the personal issues with the athletic issues. He might be a laptop stealing money taker but he's a hell of a quarterback, and dare I say it UNDER-RATED. no way this dude goes 12 or 15. he's an elite athlete and an elite pick.

    I see this as part of the problem. He may be a laptop stealing money taker, Who is he going to have around him. Normally you'd think a strong father figure would help the situation, here it is a big question mark.

    Having lived through the Michael Vick thing here in Atlanta, having personal issues at the quarterback position can kill you. I know the argument that his team can't stop raving about him, trust me when Vick was smoking weed, killing dogs, and getting enamoured with himself on Playstation all the players and coaches here were singing the party line.

    Now Cam has been convicted of nothing. His father has shown himself as to being a dirtbag who valued his own problems above the opportunity of his son.

    This is about the team leader. This guy should be the hardest worker in the locker room, the weight room and the film room. Combine that with a screwed up offseason, due to the lockout and year one for this guy is going to be wasted anyway.

    I'm taking a pass, if I'm at the top of the draft, sure he's an athletic freak, but that doesn't guarantee anything as far as wins. I have nothing against the guy, but I wouldn't touch him.

    just my .02

    tj

  16. #76
    Cameron Newton isn't the ideal franchise QB prospect, but he's got the most athletic ability at the position since Vick. If he doesn't go 1 there's no way he falls past 10.
    Last edited by Much ado about Nothing; 02-23-2011 at 08:41 PM.

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