Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: general motors IPO

  1. #1
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782

    general motors IPO

    gonna be a huge success story

    besides that inconvenient _fact_ that the taxpayer will make money off this deal,

    where would the unemployment rate be in the midwest if General Motors went under?

    but yeah i forgot everything would be better if the gov't didn't intervene and we went back to the gold standard.

  2. #2
    All League
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    3,565
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    gonna be a huge success story

    besides that inconvenient _fact_ that the taxpayer will make money off this deal,

    where would the unemployment rate be in the midwest if General Motors went under?

    but yeah i forgot everything would be better if the gov't didn't intervene and we went back to the gold standard.
    Is this a joke? the gubment has been buying their shtty cars and the "payback" has been a shift of OUR money.

  3. #3
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, CT
    Posts
    6,870
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    gonna be a huge success story

    besides that inconvenient _fact_ that the taxpayer will make money off this deal,
    And since the Federal Government is "lending" $40 million a day to the State of California to pay their unemployment benefits, we better hope they make ALOT of money off this deal.

  4. #4
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,400
    Quote Originally Posted by acepepe View Post
    Is this a joke? the gubment has been buying their shtty cars and the "payback" has been a shift of OUR money.
    the stock has to hit $139/share for it to be any kind of a success story- but hey; taxpayors made money off of TARP as well- remeber that one?

    oh, and btw- GM is exempt from paying taxes for a looonnng time:

    GM Could Be Free of Taxes for Years

    General Motors Co. will drive away from its U.S.-government-financed restructuring with a final gift in its trunk: a tax break that could be worth as much as $45 billion.
    View Slideshow

    GM, which plans to begin promoting its relisting on the stock exchange to investors this week, wiped out billions of dollars in debt, laid off thousands of employees and jettisoned money-losing brands during its U.S.-funded reorganization last year.

    Now it turns out, according to documents filed with federal regulators, the revamping left the car maker with another boost as it prepares to return to the stock market. It won't have to pay $45.4 billion in taxes on future profits.

    The tax benefit stems from so-called tax-loss carry-forwards and other provisions, which allow companies to use losses in prior years and costs related to pensions and other expenses to shield profits from U.S. taxes for up to 20 years. In GM's case, the losses stem from years prior to when GM entered bankruptcy.

    Usually, companies that undergo a significant change in ownership risk having major restrictions put on their tax benefits. The U.S. bailout of GM, in which the Treasury took a 61% stake in the company, ordinarily would have resulted in GM having such limits put on its tax benefits, according to tax experts.

    But the federal government, in a little-noticed ruling last year, decided that companies that received U.S. bailout money under the Troubled Asset Relief Program won't fall under that rule.

    "The Internal Revenue Service has decided that the government's involvement with these companies, both its acquisitions plus its disposals of their stock, means they should be exempt" from the rule, said Robert Willens, a New York tax consultant who advises investment banks and hedge funds.

    The government's rationale, said people familiar with the situation, is that the profit-shielding tax credit makes the bailed-out companies more attractive to investors, and that the value of the benefit is greater than the lost tax payments, especially since the tax payments would not exist if the companies fail.

    GM declined to comment.

    The $45.4 billion in future tax savings consist of $18.9 billion in carry-forwards based on past losses, according to GM's pre-IPO public disclosure. The other tax savings are related to costs such as pensions and other post-retirement benefits, and property, plants and equipment.

    The losses were incurred by "Old GM," the company that remained in bankruptcy after the current "New GM" resulted from the reorganization last June.

    Old GM Bonds Hit by IPO Expectations GM's Sticker: $50 Billion Investors typically view tax-loss carry-forwards losses as important assets in bolstering a company's balance sheet.

    GM's chief domestic rival, Ford Motor Co., last year adopted a plan to preserve deferred "tax assets" which stood at $17 billion at the end of 2009. Ford can use the tax attributes in certain circumstances to reduce its federal tax liability. Ford declined to comment on the GM tax ruling.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...149103202.html

    can't wait to hear the outcry from the leftists and obama apostles who constantly whine about evil coporate welfare....

  5. #5
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    77.6 Billion invested so far. Payback to date zip.

  6. #6
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    38,062
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    gonna be a huge success story
    I'm sure many of the old stockholders of GM thougth the same thing.

    Shame how that worked out. Alot of good folks lost alot of money.

    where would the unemployment rate be in the midwest if General Motors went under?
    Would have been the same. Bankruptcy does not mean "shutetr the doors, stop all operations" you know. It's an established process for reorganization and debt management.

    but yeah i forgot everything would be better if the gov't didn't intervene and we went back to the gold standard.
    GM failed, it should have been permitted (like any failed company) to go into the bankrupcy process.

    And from what I've read, there is some very loltastic accounting behind the claim that "the taxpayer will mae money" of of GM, accounting that ignores ALOT of things in order to reach that conclusion. But obviously thats a political argument made to bolster support for the bailout, so what would one expect.

  7. #7
    All League
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    3,565
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    77.6 Billion invested so far. Payback to date zip.
    they paid back trap with the bailout money that we borrowed from the Chicoms
    my azz hurts

  8. #8
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    77.6 Billion invested so far. Payback to date zip.
    untrue. it's less than 77 b and they've paid back about 10 of it

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...?docId=4963435

  9. #9
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,400
    Breakeven Point

    The Treasury said yesterday in a statement it will retain the right to determine how much of the government’s holding will be included in the initial sale. The U.S. has about $42.2 billion invested in the automaker’s common equity, according to a senior official in President Barack Obama’s administration.

    For the government to break even, GM’s shares must be worth at least $69.4 billion, and even more if the bondholders and United Auto Workers union exercise warrants for 106 million shares at strike prices from $30 to $126.92 apiece, according to the company’s filing and data compiled by Bloomberg.

    That’s more than three times GM’s stock-market value at the end of the last bull market in U.S. stocks and 65 percent higher than Ford Motor Co.’s current capitalization of $42 billion.


    At current bond prices, GM’s implied equity value is about $50 billion, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

    On a per-share basis, the government would fully recover its investment by selling its 304 million shares at an average price of about $139 each, the data show.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...y-s-stake.html

    party time!!

  10. #10
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    untrue. it's less than 77 b and they've paid back about 10 of it

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...?docId=4963435
    You're not including Chyrsler or GMAC. On top of the 77B another 5B was lent to parts dealers. GM wasn't the only car dealer that was bailed out and GMAC which is GM's credit division was given another 13.4B.

    So far to date GM and GMAC where guaranteed over 60B.

    Auto industry's TARP expenses
    Company Allocated Spent
    GM $49.5 $35.8
    Chrysler $12.5 $10.5
    GMAC $13.4 $13.4
    Chrysler Financial $1.5 $0
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 11-15-2010 at 02:31 PM.

  11. #11
    All League
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,924
    Ford didn't take one cent and they are doing great!

  12. #12
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Quote Originally Posted by MnJetFan View Post
    Ford didn't take one cent and they are doing great!
    True but the reality is without the Auto bailout that included 5B for parts suppliers Ford and Toyota USA and many of our defense contractors would be at the mercy of the bankruptcy court for parts.

    You can argue we should have let them go through a bankruptcy proceeding rather than the way the bail out happened but GM and the auto parts suppliers survival is good for the country and key to our national defense.

    While we probably won't be fully paid back for the Auto Tarp we will get enough back to make this well worth while.

    Personally I thought it should have gone through the court but I do believe national interest was involved and at the end of the day the result is better than some other alternatives.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 11-17-2010 at 11:08 AM.

  13. #13
    Hall Of Fame
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from)
    Posts
    13,472
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    gonna be a huge success story

    besides that inconvenient _fact_ that the taxpayer will make money off this deal,

    where would the unemployment rate be in the midwest if General Motors went under?

    but yeah i forgot everything would be better if the gov't didn't intervene and we went back to the gold standard.
    Your grasp on practical economics is frightening but helps to explain why the Obama's and Pelosi's of the world have such a large following.

  14. #14
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Piper View Post
    Your grasp on practical economics is frightening but helps to explain why the Obama's and Pelosi's of the world have such a large following.
    if general motors goes out of business, those jobs go away and probably don't come back

    ask Warren Buffett, the bailouts (started under Bush and continued under Obama) pretty much saved the day.

    When the crisis struck, I felt you would understand the role you had to play. But you’ve never been known for speed, and in a meltdown minutes matter. I worried whether the barrage of shattering surprises would disorient you. You would have to improvise solutions on the run, stretch legal boundaries and avoid slowdowns, like Congressional hearings and studies. You would also need to get turf-conscious departments to work together in mounting your counterattack. The challenge was huge, and many people thought you were not up to it.

    Well, Uncle Sam, you delivered. People will second-guess your specific decisions; you can always count on that. But just as there is a fog of war, there is a fog of panic — and, overall, your actions were remarkably effective.

  15. #15
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    19,179
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    if general motors goes out of business, those jobs go away and probably don't come back

    ask Warren Buffett, the bailouts (started under Bush and continued under Obama) pretty much saved the day.
    If GM can't get it's excessive people costs in line the IPO won't matter.

    It may take 5 years but costs matter.

    Remember...everyone applauded the rescue of Chrysler in the 80's. Reality check...the government simply kept alive a dying company to help save jobs.

    Chrysler should have been allowed to die so Ford and GM members would see the results of a poor product.
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 11-17-2010 at 01:32 PM.

  16. #16
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    38,062
    So how many shares are you planning to purchase Bit?

    Or are you just waiting till the Govt. gets around to redistributing some to you?

  17. #17
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    So how many shares are you planning to purchase Bit?

    Or are you just waiting till the Govt. gets around to redistributing some to you?
    I would but all my cash is tied up in sports bets on the Jets.

  18. #18
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,400
    Former car czar settles with SEC, fights AG
    (AP) – 2 hours ago


    NEW YORK (AP) — Former Obama car czar Steven Rattner has agreed to pay $6.2 million to settle federal charges over his role in a "pay-to-play" scandal, but says he won't be "bullied" into accepting a harsher penalty from New York's attorney general.

    The Securities and Exchange Commission announced Thursday that Rattner had accepted the fine and a two year ban from the securities industry to resolve allegations that he paid illegal kickbacks to help his private equity firm land a lucrative investment from a state pension fund.

    Similar settlement talks with state officials collapsed, however, and on Thursday New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo filed two lawsuits seeking a much tougher punishment: at least $26 million and a lifetime ban from the securities business.

    Rattner expressed outrage over that demand in a statement e-mailed to reporters.

    "While settling with the SEC begins the process of putting this matter behind me, I will not be bullied simply because the Attorney General's office prefers political considerations instead of a reasoned assessment of the facts," he said.

    He said he did not violate the state securities law that gave Cuomo the authority to intervene in the case.

    "This episode is the first time during 35 years in business that anyone has questioned my ethics or integrity — and I certainly did not violate the Martin Act," he said. "That's why I intend to clear my name by defending myself vigorously against this politically motivated lawsuit."

    Both federal and state investigators have accused Rattner of greasing the palms of state officials and their associates in order to help his private equity firm, the Quadrangle Group, land about $150 million in pension fund investments.

    In its complaint, the SEC said Rattner arranged for a film distribution company owned by Quadrangle to distribute a low-budget movie produced by the pension fund's chief investment officer and his brothers.

    He also hired the top political consultant to then-state Comptroller Alan Hevesi as a "placement agent" on the investment deal. The SEC said the arrangement resulted in the consultant, Henry Morris, being paid more than $1 million in "sham fees."

    Rattner also arranged to have an associate make $50,000 in contributions to Hevesi's re-election campaign, according to the SEC.

    Hevesi has pleaded guilty to criminal charges in connection with the case, and a number of securities executives and firms, including Quadrangle, have paid many millions of dollars in penalties.

    Rattner, a major political fundraiser for Democrats and influential policy figure, left the firm last year to become co-leader of the White House task force that restructured General Motors and Chrysler. He left the government in July and has been promoting his new book on the auto industry since.

    The money Rattner is paying to settle the charges represents a fraction of his wealth. He reported net worth last year of between $188 million and $608 million. But banning him from the industry, even a temporarily, could greatly limit his earning potential.

    AP Business Writer Marcy Gordon contributed to this report from Washington.
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...d065babdb35eb6

    interesting that this influential dim policymaker and fund raiser settled on pay-to-play charges brought against him...the same guy who was making policy as the car czar where allegations still remain as to why certain profitable chevy/gm dealerships, who donated heavily to the McCain campaign in 2008, were closed in favor of money losing dealerships that backed ayatollah obama's campaign....

    Congressman Issa- please deliver the subpoena....

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us