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Thread: Trading up for Cameron Heyward...

  1. #1
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    Trading up for Cameron Heyward...

    considering the things that could be done to fix this D, how much do you like the idea in November?

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    won't help the pass rush much but a good future replacement for Ellis...considering the potential cost and factoring in the number of good d-linemen that will be available in april i'd pass on trading up...

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    i dont think this player will go that high. Cameron Jordan appears to have stolen the momentum.

    And all of these players together hurt their value. its obviously way early but i think he gets picked closer to 32 overall than 1 overall.

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    Yea he seems like and excellent run stuffing DE, but Id rather someone like Allen Bailey who is a much better pash rusher yet also has some experience playing inside at DT.

    I do think this is a year we could see a trade up. If we cant keep braylon, holmes and Cormartie then we should wind up with a decent compensatory pick in the 3rd round that we could use to move up.

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    If you are interested in watching Heyward, try to see if you can access the game vs. Wisconsin. He was badly outplayed, albeit by one of the best offensive lines in the game with 2 potential first round picks in Moffitt and Carimi. I know everyone is entitled to a bad game, but this guy provides zero pass rush, and he was flat out bullied by the badgers. I dont see the hype.

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    I would trade up for Fairley as he could give us both run stuffing and pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. He could push the pocket on the inside which we miss. We got one dimensional run stuffers, we need athletic guys who can penetrate and beat their opponent. Allen Bailey would be nice and I also think that Pitoiutua will provide us with some good inside presence as he pushes the pocket nicely and can get into a QBs face with his freakish size and long arms.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    I would trade up for Fairley as he could give us both run stuffing and pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. He could push the pocket on the inside which we miss. We got one dimensional run stuffers, we need athletic guys who can penetrate and beat their opponent. Allen Bailey would be nice and I also think that Pitoiutua will provide us with some good inside presence as he pushes the pocket nicely and can get into a QBs face with his freakish size and long arms.
    Agreed with this...Fairley is the winner in the bunch as far as talent goes, but we're going to be hearing about character concerns soon enough. I haven't heard much good on that front. As a player he's the most naturally talented of the bunch this year...

    I am not a fan of Bailey. He's Gholston all over again...from a bumblef town...a "town" in a swamp with less than 100 people...More athlete than football player at this point....Sick talent but I'm meh on the football player part.

    I'm extremely high on Heyward for a few reasons:

    - Lots of college experience. Started his whole time at OSU, and played all over the line.

    - Size. He's got the prototype size and build at 6'5 or 6'6 315. Long torso, long arms, big legs, big butt, wide shoulders. He's got the best NFL build of all the DL IMO, even over Fairley.

    - NFL bloodlines. Huge plus to me. Genetics...conditioning...technique..."football IQ"...all get a little bump by this.

    - His pass rushing numbers aren't that good, but he's been a DT for much of his time at OSU. He plays with extremely good leverage and technique when he's on, and that made the difference for someone like Richard Seymour as a pro. Consistently eats double teams, and consistently gets push.

    I'm not a fan of OSU guys, but I make an exception for Heyward.
    I like the DL guys in this draft, especially Fairley, but I feel like the Jets would almost be settling by drafting someone else (except Fairley). Ballard and Guy are really good talents themselves, but Heyward's got some qualities that separates him even from Fairley. He's one of those guys that's almost a lock to be a 10 year starter in the NFL to me.
    Last edited by Much ado about Nothing; 11-16-2010 at 04:42 PM.

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    That long post said...I do understand his knocks. In the end scouting comes down to weight the negatives against the positives, and his lack of pass rushing ability just doesn't outweight the positives to me. I also think it's possible that in this D his ability to rush the passer would be improved by 1. not playing DT and 2. the system in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing View Post
    - NFL bloodlines. Huge plus to me. Genetics...conditioning...technique..."football IQ"...all get a little bump by this.
    cameron jordan also shares this "plus" - his dad was a pro bowl tight end for the Vikings, Steve Jordan.

    not relevant to Jets fans but Andrew Luck's dad was also in the league for a cup of coffee. Oliver Luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    cameron jordan also shares this "plus" - his dad was a pro bowl tight end for the Vikings, Steve Jordan.

    not relevant to Jets fans but Andrew Luck's dad was also in the league for a cup of coffee. Oliver Luck.
    Jordan's a damn good player himself...I just like Heyward more because he's got something like 20-30 pounds on Jordan.

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    Trading up for a 34 DE wouldn't be the best idea IMO. Those players aren't difference makers in this system. Guys like DeVito just need to stuff the run. A stud edge rusher who can get 12-15 sacks on his own is REALLY needed here.

    Trade up for one of those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Trading up for a 34 DE wouldn't be the best idea IMO. Those players aren't difference makers in this system. Guys like DeVito just need to stuff the run. A stud edge rusher who can get 12-15 sacks on his own is REALLY needed here.

    Trade up for one of those.
    Haloti Ngata and Richard Seymour...While generally speaking you can get good production from lesser talent at 3-4 DE, the same could be said of all positions. The point is to get the talent on the field and let the players, not their positions, make the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Trading up for a 34 DE wouldn't be the best idea IMO. Those players aren't difference makers in this system. Guys like DeVito just need to stuff the run. A stud edge rusher who can get 12-15 sacks on his own is REALLY needed here.

    Trade up for one of those.
    Absolutely agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Trading up for a 34 DE wouldn't be the best idea IMO. Those players aren't difference makers in this system. Guys like DeVito just need to stuff the run. A stud edge rusher who can get 12-15 sacks on his own is REALLY needed here.

    Trade up for one of those.
    Ready for the list of "those" in the league right now?

    DeMarcus Ware
    LeMarr Woodley
    James Harrison
    Elvis Demervil
    Clay Matthews (I feel safe putting him on the list)

    All the other guys that put up huge sack numbers are 4-3 DEs. So, we have X number of years of drafts, and there are 5 guys in the league that fit that description, 2 of them happen to play on the same team. Don't hold your breath waiting for this team to acquire such a player. It's hard enough to find guys that will give you the 7 or so sacks that Calvin Pace does.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1089 View Post
    Ready for the list of "those" in the league right now?

    DeMarcus Ware
    LeMarr Woodley
    James Harrison
    Elvis Demervil
    Clay Matthews (I feel safe putting him on the list)

    All the other guys that put up huge sack numbers are 4-3 DEs. So, we have X number of years of drafts, and there are 5 guys in the league that fit that description, 2 of them happen to play on the same team. Don't hold your breath waiting for this team to acquire such a player. It's hard enough to find guys that will give you the 7 or so sacks that Calvin Pace does.
    Terrell Suggs used to be a numbers pass rusher, but with Rex the last few years he got less sacks and still had what his coaches called his best seasons to that point. This D is praised for it's aggressiveness and difference from the Patriots D, but it's very much like the Patriots D. It's still a very much based on having a dominant 2 gap DL-man, or two, or three. Having monster sized front 7 with top of the line athleticism is the whole point of running a 3-4.

    If the D is stopping the run and getting pressure up front now, imagine what bigger, faster, stronger, younger players can do over the course of a decade. I'm not big on Ohio State players, I admit I fell for the Gholston trick and even still think he'll be good, but Gholston wasn't a sure thing. I just thought he'd be work out better than this. Heyward is a guy I'm pretty sure will go in the top 15-20 picks in the draft if no one does the dreaded "reach" before that. 6'5" 6'6" guys who can play DE in a 3-4 and DT in a 4-3 often turn out to be good players, and they don't come around too often. Throw in the whole profile...NFL bloodlines, good student, 4 year starter, and all that bs and he's as solid a pick as there is in the draft. Heyward is probably the most sure thing big DL-man in the bunch or maybe second to Dareus, who only has the disadvantage of being shorter.










    I guess I'm on this guy's bandwagon now. I just wrote that whole speech up there.

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    the more i watch Ballard/Iowa & Watt/Wisconsin the more they impress me- point being the Jets will have a shot at a good DL in late one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    the more i watch Ballard/Iowa & Watt/Wisconsin the more they impress me- point being the Jets will have a shot at a good DL in late one...
    Ballard is the man. Much better 3 man DL prospect than Clayborne, who isn't bad either.

    I just want someone with that kind of size and athleticism...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1089 View Post
    Ready for the list of "those" in the league right now?

    DeMarcus Ware
    LeMarr Woodley
    James Harrison
    Elvis Demervil
    Clay Matthews (I feel safe putting him on the list)

    All the other guys that put up huge sack numbers are 4-3 DEs. So, we have X number of years of drafts, and there are 5 guys in the league that fit that description, 2 of them happen to play on the same team. Don't hold your breath waiting for this team to acquire such a player. It's hard enough to find guys that will give you the 7 or so sacks that Calvin Pace does.
    I guess you have to put Cameron Wake, Brian Orakpo, Terrell Suggs, Shaun Phillips and maybe even Tamba Hali up there who would all be an upgrade over Pace. Dont get me wrong, Pace is a very good, well rounded player but not an outstanding pass rusher. He doesnt have to be accounted for like other players.

    Of course it isnt easy to find a stud rusher but in the end, when we want to form the best defense possible, a truly dominant one, then we have to upgrade our edge rushers.

  19. #19
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    heyward had a beastly sack to end the iowa game

    clayborn also had a great game

    i'd be happy with either of these big 10 DL.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    I guess you have to put Cameron Wake, Brian Orakpo, Terrell Suggs, Shaun Phillips and maybe even Tamba Hali up there who would all be an upgrade over Pace. Dont get me wrong, Pace is a very good, well rounded player but not an outstanding pass rusher. He doesnt have to be accounted for like other players.

    Of course it isnt easy to find a stud rusher but in the end, when we want to form the best defense possible, a truly dominant one, then we have to upgrade our edge rushers.
    Whoa whoa whoa...Pace is the man. He's not the problem here. It's the nature of the position...Best way to improve the pass rush is to improve the front 3.

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