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Thread: Defense is Good. Not Great

  1. #1

    Defense is Good. Not Great

    Hear a lot of talk about how better the JETS Defense was last year. I think in ways yes and way no. I believe they play run better this year. Still think they are very good with 1st & 2nd down defense. Seem to force a lot of 3rd and long. but tend to allow teams to convert on 3rd down (penalties included).

    No doubt they have best CB's tandem in league (nickel / Dime pretty good as well). Thought their safeties would play much better this year though. LB play has been steady and DL has done very well against the run. They seem to get lots of turnovers from stripping the ball, but very few interceptions.

    Just don't think you can confuse them with the word DOMINATING.

    Hoping that PACE, TAYLOR, PRYCE & ELLIS pick things up from a Pass Rush standpoint.


    1. Lack of a Pass Rush
    2. Interceptions?
    3. Safeties (lack of big plays)

    No doubt we are good enough to compete with anyone, but hopefully they can improve and peak at right time

  2. #2
    #3 Scoring defense less than 1 point from #1. Best Scoring defense in the NFL.

    I guess the forced fumble in OT wasn't a big play.

  3. #3
    agree. I keep waiting for a breakout game, where we get a few INTs (or maybe 1 at least) and maybe take one to the house. It's getting a little frustrating. I had visions of this defense being legendary, not I am just hoping they can get hot in time for the playoffs.

    Revis and Cromartie seemed to have a lot of chances to make some Picks earlier on in the season, but now it seems as though teams don't even throw their way more than 1 or 2 times a game. TEs and slot WRs are catching all the passes.

    Eventually we need to get some tipped balls that fall into someone's hands. The closest to an INT we have come in recent weeks was Sione Pouha against Detroit!

  4. #4
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    They are really inconsistent right now not only in every game itself but from game to game. First Hillis ran wild, then we stopped him. Then we have times where we cant get off the field, then we lock everything down for a quarter. Green Bay game was almost perfect from a defensive standpoint considering the high powered offense we faced.

    I think what we lack right now is a true fear factor. This will only occur this year when we got out and hit people in the mouth from the very beginning. In the first game, Flacco got hammered on the first couple of drives and you could see it in his eyes the entire game. Dont fool yourself, the 3rd down conversions were mostly lucky and helped by the refs, it werent plays that were made with much confidence. Against Green Bay it was the same thing.

    Now think about it, against Detroit and Cleveland we didnt come out strong early and so the opposing offense didnt really think of us as any special. We gotta make a more consistent effort and be punishing all game long.
    Last edited by Flaming Mo; 11-16-2010 at 04:13 PM.

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=Gastineau99;3821924]agree. I keep waiting for a breakout game, where we get a few INTs (or maybe 1 at least) and maybe take one to the house. It's getting a little frustrating. I had visions of this defense being legendary, not I am just hoping they can get hot in time for the playoffs.

    Revis and Cromartie seemed to have a lot of chances to make some Picks earlier on in the season, but now it seems as though teams don't even throw their way more than 1 or 2 times a game. TEs and slot WRs are catching all the passes.

    Eventually we need to get some tipped balls that fall into someone's hands. The closest to an INT we have come in recent weeks was Sione Pouha against Detroit![/QUOTE]

    I hear you about this defense being legendary. I think a lot of parts are in place - CBs, our inside LBs, nasty run stuffers and a great defensive mind as our headcoach. I think the reasons for not being truly dominant all the time are a) the loss of Jenkins as he is a special player, b) the lack of a great edge rusher and c) the lack of a ballhawking safety. We have to face it, right now we are starting atleast one backup talent at safety. Pace hasnt lived up expectations off the edge and the D clearly suffers from it. Now in general we got a lot of fairly young players who will be in their prime for quite some time (even Pouha, Scott, BT arent that old) so we should definitely field a strong defensive unit for many years.

    A few twists and I think we can become that once in a lifetime defense if we desire that and commit to it in the draft. Think about it, on offense we really dont have on weakness in terms of personnel or one position that needs to be upgraded. We have a replacement set up for TRich and we drafted Woody's replacement last year when we put one and one together. Sanchez is there, the rest of the line is young, we got young receivers and a young beast at TE. On defense, not so much. Ellis is getting old, Taylor is old and I think the need is more opbvious here.

  6. #6
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    Defense is good. If Sanchez continues the way he's been playing, that's all they'll need to be.

    We already know this isn't a sackmeister defense, and will never be until we find a stud pass rusher. They're still plenty good enough to win with this year behind a franchise QB who's improving every week.

    The INT numbers will even themselves out. There's too much talent for them not to, and the matchups in the 2nd half are favorable. I expect there will be a couple games where the picks will come in bunches. We still get to play the INT machines Cutler and Palmer, plus whichever scrub is QBing the Dolphins, and Fitzpatrick again in week 17 when the Bills will probably have already mailed it in. I also think we will give Schaub a lot of problems this weekend too.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=Chupa;3821918]#3 Scoring defense less than 1 point from #1. Best Scoring defense in the NFL.

    I guess the forced fumble in OT wasn't a big play.[/QUOTE]


    I noted the recoveries (strips), so I do think that was a big play. Just thought they would have more interceptions. I was hanging my hat on the scoring as well, but thought it more relevant to point out some of the areas that prevent us from being dominant. i guess Rex wants to be the no. 1 defense. they aren't far off

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Cole;3821941]Defense is good. If Sanchez continues the way he's been playing, that's all they'll need to be.

    We already know this isn't a sackmeister defense, and will never be until we find a stud pass rusher. They're still plenty good enough to win with this year behind a franchise QB who's improving every week.

    The INT numbers will even themselves out. There's too much talent for them not to, and the matchups in the 2nd half are favorable. I expect there will be a couple games where the picks will come in bunches. We still get to play the INT machines Cutler and Palmer, plus whichever scrub is QBing the Dolphins, and Fitzpatrick again in week 17 when the Bills will probably have already mailed it in. I also think we will give Schaub a lot of problems this weekend too.[/QUOTE]

    Very Fair Assessment! I think they are good enough. hoping that Pace kicks it into another gear now that he is comming off the foot injury. Pass Rush can use a boast. Safety play has not been as good as I thought. but not horrible. Their losses this year were more a result of the OC and Offense than anything else

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Gastineau99;3821924]agree. I keep waiting for a breakout game, where we get a few INTs (or maybe 1 at least) and maybe take one to the house. It's getting a little frustrating. I had visions of this defense being legendary, not I am just hoping they can get hot in time for the playoffs.

    Revis and Cromartie seemed to have a lot of chances to make some Picks earlier on in the season, but now it seems as though teams don't even throw their way more than 1 or 2 times a game. TEs and slot WRs are catching all the passes.

    Eventually we need to get some tipped balls that fall into someone's hands. The closest to an INT we have come in recent weeks was Sione Pouha against Detroit![/QUOTE]

    I think they tend to stay away for CB's on outside. Just wish we would generate a better Pass Rush. I think everything else would fall into place. Frankly, can't get too picky on defense. Their losses were not a result of poor defense.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Flaming Mo;3821928]They are really inconsistent right now not only in every game itself but from game to game. First Hillis ran wild, then we stopped him. Then we have times where we cant get off the field, then we lock everything down for a quarter. Green Bay game was almost perfect from a defensive standpoint considering the high powered offense we faced.

    I think what we lack right now is a true fear factor. This will only occur this year when we got out and hit people in the mouth from the very beginning. In the first game, Flacco got hammered on the first couple of drives and you could see it in his eyes the entire game. Dont fool yourself, the 3rd down conversions were mostly lucky and helped by the refs, it werent plays that were made with much confidence. Against Green Bay it was the same thing.

    Now think about it, against Detroit and Cleveland we didnt come out strong early and so the opposing offense didnt really think of us as any special. We gotta make a more consistent effort and be punishing all game long.[/QUOTE]

    Think we need to be able to knock the QB around. A dominant pass rush is a beautiful thing! hopefully Pace will start to pick up his game after comming back from foot injury.

  11. #11
    the defense is very good but not great. its good enough to win a SB if the offense can be more consistent. really just need them to score 20 pts a game and with all the talent on the team that should not be a problem

    this defense can become dominant with a pass rush

  12. #12
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    There are only so many things in the sports world that are great.

  13. #13
    This defense is much better when playing with a lead. Rex can be much more aggressive - but we haven't started a lot of games hot this year.

    As the offense gets stronger, and I get the feeling they are starting to click, the defense is going to produce much better numbers.

  14. #14
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    Bart said it today. We play the run first. That's why we're so good against the run. Our pass rush comes from blitzers. Not necessarily bringing more than 4 or 5, but not from the lineman. He said they're either max protecting, or using a 3 step drop. I agree that Jenkins would have made a big difference, but not many lineman can rush the passer while still protecting both gaps. He also said That Rob Ryan figured out what our reads were on defense, and they did a great job with blocking schemes that used our keys against us. We made the adjustments at halftime and they obviously couldn't run a lick in the second half. That being said, this was a team that beat the Saints and the Pats, so I don't think we need to apologize for this win. I see our confidence growing every week now, and I can't wait till 12/6 when we get a chance to shut up the critics.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=jetfan51;3821908]Hear a lot of talk about how better the JETS Defense was last year. I think in ways yes and way no. I believe they play run better this year. Still think they are very good with 1st & 2nd down defense. Seem to force a lot of 3rd and long. but tend to allow teams to convert on 3rd down (penalties included).

    No doubt they have best CB's tandem in league (nickel / Dime pretty good as well). Thought their safeties would play much better this year though. LB play has been steady and DL has done very well against the run. [B]They seem to get lots of turnovers from stripping the ball, but very few interceptions.[/B]

    Just don't think you can confuse them with the word DOMINATING.

    Hoping that PACE, TAYLOR, PRYCE & ELLIS pick things up from a Pass Rush standpoint.


    1. Lack of a Pass Rush
    2. Interceptions?
    3. Safeties (lack of big plays)

    No doubt we are good enough to compete with anyone, but hopefully they can improve and peak at right time[/QUOTE]

    have been thinking the same thing. the fumbles are great but bigger plays tend to come from int. i would like to see a few more picks but teams arent very good at throwing the ball against us so i will take it

  16. #16
    We will only know if they are good or great by the D's performance in the playoffs. If we get there.

  17. #17
    my two cents. this is a good example of how the offense and defense act together and effect each other's play. the browns don't drive for that tying score if the offense manages even one of those missed fg's. why? because it's a little different going for a single score than needing two scores to win or tie in regulation. if it was two scores maybe the browns don't use the run at all or call the same pass plays. maybe they try to go deeper and toss a few incompletes. mccoy made some very nice mid range throws on that tying drive. on the other hand the offense did have some nice long drives in the second half that kept the defense on the benched. this kept them well rested for the overtime period. this has been going on all season and if this offense can finally get consistent and move the chains consistently then this defense will be much better.

  18. #18
    Agree with most everything said by Jetfan, Flo and Gas.

    Just don't know if the defense can be dominant this year. Personnel changes are needed this offseason to probably get there. A young stud that can pressure at DE. Same for OLB. And a cover safety too.

    As for now...

    The loss of Jenkins really hurts the performance of the pressure packages. As well as dictates the personnel used in those blitz schemes. Both Pouha and Devito have been great in stuffing the run. But neither demands the constant double teams that Big Jenks would've guaranteed in passing situations.

    Just a thought...maybe Wilson can be an x-facter...to help improve the D. It was a bad situation for him...not staying mostly at nickle...and having Revis to practice and play with during that TC-preseason period. The absence of Revis...set back the continuity and play of the secondary. You could see that in how Kyle and Cromarte played in the season opener against the Ravens. Even though Cro started out poorly against the Ravens...he's a talented and experienced veteran. He's not going to have his confidence shattered by that game. He's made the adjustments. And has been a #1 corner since the 2nd half of that Pats game. But for a rookie like Kyle...the poor play definitely hurt his confidence. Then the Revis hammy injury happens...forcing Wilson to play the #2 corner. He wasn't really ready to play that position in Rex' complicated secondary this year. And it totally shattered Kyle's confidence.

    Now...after weeks of "rehab"...he's starting to play again. So can Kyle come on and surprise with improvement? And give the Jets an upgrade at the nickle...or help take on the TEs...for the stretch run and the playoffs? He has the talent...but needs the reps and experience.

    Pool has been a bit disappointing. Thought he would have more of a impact at safety. Besides hard hitting...I thought he would have more picks. In the Packers and Lions games...he almost had an INT in each one. Maybe he can come on and make some big plays...he's certainly more capable then what he's been showing.

    Even though it's not a dominant D...it has been steadily improving. And will keep the Jets in every game. What we have going this year...to really help out on defense...is the improvement of Mark Sanchez at the QB position. And with all the weapons Jets have on offense...it will be this unit that will be the difference maker in most games.

    Take just ball control and managing the clock. Like we all saw in that impressive 19 play, 10+ minute drive to start the 3rd Q. With Sanchez now capable of managing the offense...keeping the opponent's offense off the field for long stretches...this will help the defense stay fresh. i believe all three Jets sacks came after that drive. IMO...that's not a coincidence. It's very important to dominate the clock...when you're asking aging veterans to play significant roles on D. It shouldn't be taken lightly...how important it is for players like JT...Pryce...Ellis...to be fresh. So that they can step up in the 4th Q...to make big plays. It could result in more TO's too. During the remainder of the season...make a Brady, Big Ben and Schaub...sit and watch a long Jets drive. Then strip-sack them on defense...with those fresh legs.

    So it's also like a symbiotic relationship. If the defense can continue to make improvement with more big plays...it will allow the improving Sanchez and the offense..to have a bigger magnitude on the outcome of games too.

    Each unit needs to do their part and help out the other facets of the team. That's what good football teams do. And...IMO...that's what the 7-2 Jets are doing.
    Last edited by GreenReaper; 11-16-2010 at 07:43 PM.

  19. #19
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    When we run the ball, we also play great defense. Plain and simple.
    That little extra time on the bench, plus the feeling they get watchin the offense pound away at someone drives these.
    Run the ball, get the lead, play great D from there and Jets win.

  20. #20
    Our defense tooks some steps forward this year while also taking steps back in certain departments. Our run defense is definitely improved, but we still have no pass rush to speak of, our safety's are better in run support but worse in pass defense, and our slot CB are not as good as last year.

    As good of a player Kyle Wilson may turn out to be, fact is Strickland was still better in the slot than anyone we have on the roster right now.

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