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Thread: The Cuba Embargo/Restristions

  1. #1
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    The Cuba Embargo/Restristions

    Given that Communist China is one of our biggest trading partners, a "most favored nation", and holds huge amounts of US Currencty and US Debt, the question that risies is this:

    What purpose, specificly, is the Cuba Embargo serving today?

    Has the Embargo done what it was intended to do, and what WAS The original intention?

    Is it perhaps time to seek a new route, one of openness and exchange a la China, to show Cubans whats what instead of locking them out?

    What is the argument for contiuation of the Embargo now? And how do you reconcile continuation vs. how deep in we are with China, unquestionaby worse is every aspect?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba_embargo
    Last edited by Warfish; 12-15-2010 at 11:33 AM.

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    Stop the embargo.

    The Cold War is over.

    Cuba is not a threat to anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Stop the embargo.

    The Cold War is over.

    Cuba is not a threat to anyone.
    +1

    I can't wait until the embargo is lifted and Hilton builds a mega casino/hotel in Havana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauliec View Post
    +1

    I can't wait until the embargo is lifted and Hilton builds a mega casino/hotel in Havana.
    The price on 55 Chevy's will drop too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Given that Communist China is one of our biggest trading partners, a "most favored nation", and holds huge amounts of US Currencty and US Debt, the question that risies is this:

    What purpose, specificly, is the Cuba Embargo serving today?

    Has the Embargo done what it was intended to do, and what WAS The original intention?

    Is it perhaps time to seek a new route, one of openness and exchange a la China, to show Cubans whats what instead of locking them out?

    What is the argument for contiuation of the Embargo now? And how do you reconcile continuation vs. how deep in we are with China, unquestionaby worse is every aspect?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba_embargo
    Restristions?!?! A bit early to be loaded, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauliec View Post
    +1

    I can't wait until the embargo is lifted and Hilton builds a mega casino/hotel in Havana.
    Cuba is my favorite place to vacation. I have been there 5 times, it is beautiful. I have never seen water so clear. After several trips to Havana I can't imagine why the US has a problem with current day Cuba. You and I armed with slingshots could take them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MACPAC View Post
    Cuba is my favorite place to vacation. I have been there 5 times, it is beautiful. I have never seen water so clear. After several trips to Havana I can't imagine why the US has a problem with current day Cuba. You and I armed with slingshots could take them.
    Lucky Canadian bastard.

    What's the tourism industry like down there? Are there a lot of luxury hotels and tourists from Canada and European countries? Or is it still pretty undeveloped/poor/downtrodden?

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    ah the value of a public school education-no one knows why the embargo was made or why it should be upheld?

    Cuban-Americans are amiong the biggest proponents of it!

    euroweenies and canuckistanians alike have been trading w/ and vacationing in Cuba for years yet the place is still a economic basket case

    the libs in this thread that want to prop up a corrupt regime should have no problem going there - they can pass for canadians anytime

    China has nothing to do w/ it , and they need us more than we need them - we can always pull a Cuba and declare their holdings to be bupkus
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 12-15-2010 at 04:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    ah the value of a public school education-no one knows why the embargo was made or why it should be upheld?

    Cuban-Americans are amiong the biggest proponents of it!

    euroweenies and canuckistanians alike have been trading w/ and vacationing in Cuba for years yet the place is still a economic basket case

    the libs in this thread that want to prop up a corrupt regime should have no problem going there - they can pass for canadians anytime

    China has nothing to do w/ it , and they need us more than we need them - we can always pull a Cuba and declare their holdings to be bupkus
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jznAJySwkmM

    Why does Nixon always get the first question!?

    G0ddam liberal media.

    I say we bomb those Reds back to the Stone Age!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    ah the value of a public school education-no one knows why the embargo was made or why it should be upheld?

    Cuban-Americans are amiong the biggest proponents of it!

    euroweenies and canuckistanians alike have been trading w/ and vacationing in Cuba for years yet the place is still a economic basket case

    the libs in this thread that want to prop up a corrupt regime should have no problem going there - they can pass for canadians anytime

    China has nothing to do w/ it , and they need us more than we need them - we can always pull a Cuba and declare their holdings to be bupkus
    I notice you didn't actualy give a reason why the Embargo should be in place today.

    No worries, on this one you and Obama are walking hand in hand, policy wise. Something I am sure pleases you to no end.

    Beyond that, since when did JSJ support pandering to a minority-special-interest group, a la Florida Cuban-American Lobbying group?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I notice you didn't actualy give a reason why the Embargo should be in place today.

    No worries, on this one you and Obama are walking hand in hand, policy wise. Something I am sure pleases you to no end.

    Beyond that, since when did JSJ support pandering to a minority-special-interest group, a la Florida Cuban-American Lobbying group?



    Weren't you on hiatus? Well, maybe just physically.

    There's plenty of reasons new and old to leave Cuba as is - why legitimize and build up a repressive regime with a sordid history who acts in lockstep w/ Chavez without any quid pro quos

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...CFsACA0D6IVpvL

    In addition, normalizing relations w/ Cuba will only bring more illegals/illegal drugs here.

    Where did I say I support minority groups or pandering to them? I do believe that TPers should be very wary of how Rubio will vote re Shamnesties- ultimately I do not believe he will vote against Hispanic special interest groups.

    If B. Hussein Carter and I "agree" on anything its purely by coincidence and only for political expedience on his part moving to the right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jznAJySwkmM

    Why does Nixon always get the first question!?

    G0ddam liberal media.

    I say we bomb those Reds back to the Stone Age!

    Kennedy is a secret Papal sleeper agent!
    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery - PK wrote that post about 100x already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery - PK wrote that post about 100x already.
    Maybe you should start listening then.

    But I guess it's better to stick to what works:


    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post

    In addition, normalizing relations w/ Cuba will only bring more illegals/illegal drugs here.

    And here's what your article says:

    The US embargo remains a matter of principle -- and an appropriate response to Cuba's brutal repression of its people. Giving in to evil only begets more of it. Haven't we learned that yet?
    Until we see progress in loosing the Cuban people from the yoke of the communist regime, we should hold firm onto the leverage the embargo provides.
    Lot of rhetoric from the two of you?

    You would think Cuba is North Korea.

    Furthermore, do you believe in the merits of "soft power"?

    Perhaps by trading with Cuba and selling them our products and exporting some of our culture there, we can allow them to realize on their own that democracy and regulated capitalism is better than having an autocrat with the last name Castro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    ah the value of a public school education-no one knows why the embargo was made or why it should be upheld?

    Cuban-Americans are amiong the biggest proponents of it!

    euroweenies and canuckistanians alike have been trading w/ and vacationing in Cuba for years yet the place is still a economic basket case

    the libs in this thread that want to prop up a corrupt regime should have no problem going there - they can pass for canadians anytime

    China has nothing to do w/ it , and they need us more than we need them - we can always pull a Cuba and declare their holdings to be bupkus
    Sad, very sad indeed.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    There's plenty of reasons new and old to leave Cuba as is - why legitimize and build up
    Ending the Embargo is hardly "legitimizing" or building up someone. One might ask why, if it was indeed legitimizng them, we are so eager to legitimize China, Iran, North Korea and a hald-dozen middle eastern nations, all of whom pose a far greater risk and problem than Cuba does.

    Frankly, it's also a laugh to think we "Via who we embargo and do not" are the arbiters of "legitimacy". Clearly, not legitimizing them hasn;t worked as yet, 50 years later. We'd stand a better chance with them, post Casto, has we had open tarvel and trade, enticing the people to want what we have more than they fear what Casto and his ilk threatened.

    There is also something to be said for conversion trhough peaceful trade and exchange. Our embargo is qute reasonably the reason Castro is still in power, and Communism still in control of Cuba.

    a repressive regime with a sordid history
    Because we never deal with those, amirite?

    who acts in lockstep w/ Chavez without any quid pro quos
    Nest way to change that is to open trade/travel. As it is, they (Cuban leadership) has no place to go but the bad-players on the World Stage. Clearly the Embargo hasn;t changed them or fostered a free-cuba uprising in Cuba. But open travel and tarde can and would. Helped topple the USSR and Eastern Europe, and made China far more Capitalist than they liek to admit....why not Cuba as well?


    In addition, normalizing relations w/ Cuba will only bring more illegals/illegal drugs here.
    lol, as if anyone but us cared about that.

    Sometimes I think we make ourselves our own worst enemy when it comes to international relations and world politics.
    Last edited by Warfish; 12-15-2010 at 10:12 PM.

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    Spent a 3 week vacation there a few years back. Very nice people, and great place to visit.

    Havana Club, is the only rum for mojitos

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    Oh please WF. If US diplomatic recognition weren't important (and esp. the Yanqui $ that follow)
    people wouldn" t cry about not having it. Let them try and democratize a bit 1st.

    Cuba has been propped up by foreign interests for 50 years-
    The ROW can keep Cuba afloat and enjoy cigars/whores/mojitos in cheap holidays out of other people's misery and try to feel good about it-America doesn't have to

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Oh please WF. If US diplomatic recognition weren't important (and esp. the Yanqui $ that follow)
    people wouldn" t cry about not having it. Let them try and democratize a bit 1st.

    Cuba has been propped up by foreign interests for 50 years-
    The ROW can keep Cuba afloat and enjoy cigars/whores/mojitos in cheap holidays out of other people's misery and try to feel good about it-America doesn't have to
    An influx of american business will democratize them quicker.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Oh please WF. If US diplomatic recognition weren't important (and esp. the Yanqui $ that follow)
    people wouldn" t cry about not having it. Let them try and democratize a bit 1st.
    Of course Diplomatic Recognition is important, to some degree. My point/position is that today, there is very little reason to not recognize them, very little is being gained by us by it, and in fact I would state we're pushing them towards rogue states like Iran/NK by furthering an outdated idea (for them) at this point.

    The Cold War is over, we won. Communism, while a despicable threat, no longer is the "we must crush you" bugaboo it once was in other Nations, and we have relations with the biggest Commies around, China.

    Difference is, we're entangled in the Chineese economy in ways that serve to help capitalist-ize them, and protect (to some degree) us.

    Cuba has been propped up by foreign interests for 50 years-
    The ROW can keep Cuba afloat and enjoy cigars/whores/mojitos in cheap holidays out of other people's misery and try to feel good about it-America doesn't have to
    I agree....with the bolded. We don't have to have an Embargo anymore, there is nothign to be gained from it, and long term only soemthing to be lost from it.

    Consider two alternate futures, in one we end teh embargo, get US corporate interests and americans and american $$ into Cuba, into the hands of it's people, who will see more and more of the US and it's freedom,a nd want that for themselves.

    In the other, we lock down Cuba from us, whilst Iran, North Korea and Venezuela all ally with Cuba, help her economy, and develop strong and deep ties there.

    I know which future I'd prefer, which future serves U.S. National Security and interests better. It's not the one based on 1960's priorities and thinking.

    I assure you, my interests on this are purely selfish (for the US), not for Cubans and (lol) Castro and his ilk.

    A few years of open trade and travel to/from Cuba will do more to democratize them than 40 years of Embargo has done. And get them off the world stage as a potential enemy/threat/staging point, and on to our side. All that, without a War, and with a new vacation spot for us to boot.

    2011 =/= 1962

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