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Thread: Putting the Ball in the Endzone (or Not)

  1. #1

    Putting the Ball in the Endzone (or Not)

    In 2010, thru 14 games.

    [U]The Jets are:[/U]

    16th in the NFL in Rushing TD's (10)

    and 22nd in the NFL in Recieving TD's (17)

    Thats 11.57 PPG from Offense-scored TD's.

    Overall we are 18th in the NFL in PPG, at 21.1

    It would be interesting to see a stats analysis of the entire Shotty Era, compared to other teams over that era, to see where we rank in Offense TD's/Game and overall PPG over the entire Era.

    It is my belief we'd be quite poorly ranked, and this (I think) is part of why Shotty gets so much grief here.

  2. #2
    It is just very difficult to make comparisons without looking at personnel on the field from year to year.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Beerfish;3873614]It is just very difficult to make comparisons without looking at personnel on the field from year to year.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree. If a team is consistently a poor scoring team, year-to-year and with different personel, one has to consider (at least) that the scheme and playcalling could be part of the problem. When a variety of variables all perform the same way, it's time to look at the constants.

  4. #4
    I think compared to years prior, this offense is actually better. Improvement is a positive.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=bitonti;3873623]I think compared to years prior, this offense is actually better. Improvement is a positive.[/QUOTE]

    Not yet it isn't.

    Last years team was 1st in Rushing TD's (Ground & Pound) with 21.

    Last Years team was dead last (31st) in Recieveing TD's with 12.

    33 Offensive TD's total in 2009. 27 thus far in 2010.

    6 less Offensive TD's with 2 games to go.

    We're more balanced. But scoring less. And scoring less with (I assume universally agreed) better and/or more experienced talent.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3873636]Not yet it isn't.

    Last years team was 1st in Rushing TD's (Ground & Pound) with 21.

    Last Years team was dead last (31st) in Recieveing TD's with 12.

    33 Offensive TD's total in 2009. 27 thus far in 2010.

    6 less Offensive TD's with 2 games to go.

    We're more balanced. But scoring less. And scoring less with (I assume universally agreed) better and/or more experienced talent.[/QUOTE]

    Thats well and good but it doesn't take the opposition into account. We don't play the same schedule each year. The teams we do play each season don't play the same from one year to another. Theres more to it than just adding up TDs.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;3873649]Thats well and good but it doesn't take the opposition into account. We don't play the same schedule each year. The teams we do play each season don't play the same from one year to another. Theres more to it than just adding up TDs.[/QUOTE]

    Not only that, but it certainly feels as though this year has involved more bad weather games than I can remember. Starting on that first night against Baltimore, it feels like there has been bad weather constantly.


    I think it's no coincidence that our offense's worst production has occurred when there was bad weather involved.

    That said, Sanchez and company are getting better dealing with it. Much like Brady has throughout his career.

  8. #8
    If I had to guess its pretty poor. I track something I call scoring efficiency (basically compared our offensive output against the norms that the defenses on our schedule put up) and the best we ranked was a 12% in Favres season. The rest of the time we are pretty average and the 2007 season would bottom out Schotty to well below average. The one thing with offenses is that they are usually consistent.

    In 2010 the top 10 as of two weeks ago were NE, Philly, Atlanta, SD, Dallas, GB, Detroit, Indy, NO, and Pittsburgh.

    In 2009 6 of those teams were in the top 10 and only Detroit was below average.

    In 2008 6 of those teams were still in the top 10 and again Detroit was the only below average team.

    The Jets rankings the last 3 years have been 18, 16, and 10. I dont have the other 2 years handy, but I think they were around 27 in 2007 and 18 in 2006. Based on the year to year consistency of most teams Id say his tenure will most likely rank right around 18 or 19.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Jason423;3873661]If I had to guess its pretty poor. I track something I call scoring efficiency (basically compared our offensive output against the norms that the defenses on our schedule put up) and the best we ranked was a 12% in Favres season. The rest of the time we are pretty average and the 2007 season would bottom out Schotty to well below average. The one thing with offenses is that they are usually consistent.

    In 2010 the top 10 as of two weeks ago were NE, Philly, Atlanta, SD, Dallas, GB, Detroit, Indy, NO, and Pittsburgh.

    In 2009 6 of those teams were in the top 10 and only Detroit was below average.

    In 2008 6 of those teams were still in the top 10 and again Detroit was the only below average team.

    The Jets rankings the last 3 years have been 18, 16, and 10. I dont have the other 2 years handy, but I think they were around 27 in 2007 and 18 in 2006. [B]Based on the year to year consistency of most teams Id say his tenure will most likely rank right around 18 or 19.[/B][/QUOTE]


    ie - a hairline better than garbage.

    That's just great. And people still want this moron to stay. :rolleyes:

  10. #10
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    The offense has bailed out the defense numerous times this season. It's definitely flashed at times and came up with big plays when we needed them. The problem are these numbers: 9, 0, 3, 6. The point totals in the Baltimore, Green Bay, New England and Miami games.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;3873649]Thats well and good but it doesn't take the opposition into account. We don't play the same schedule each year. The teams we do play each season don't play the same from one year to another. Theres more to it than just adding up TDs.[/QUOTE]

    One could certainly take that into consideration, sadly no easy source exists to provide that data here.

    One would need to look at the Jets opponents in 2010 and 2009, and find out how many TD's they gave up for the year (not including vs. the Jets).

    Of course, such an argument would then be taken a further step and you;d claim "well, those opponents didn't all play the same teams!". One would need to extropolate further, to another degree, and even then the claim of a lack of consistency would be made.

    In effect, your argument is that stats, in the NFL, hold no value of any kind in judging anyone, as the variables are too many and too complicated to consider.

    Hence your arguments pro/con someone like Shotty must then be made purely subjectively, based on how you feel abotu what you see, not what the number (which you claim are invalid) say.

    I tend to disagree with such a belief, I belive that desite teh variables, one can judge based on trends and stats. When looking over a number of years, and a trend is displayed, one can make deductions based on that in my view.

    But we can agree to disagree. If you're pleased with our abillity to score TD's in 2010, great. I (and many others) are not.

  12. #12
    painting with broad strokes, the Jets relative inability to score touchdowns can be outweighed by their ability to prevent them.

    there are other teams such as the texans and pre-tebow denver who are extremely good at scoring touchdowns. but their Ds are a sieve and therefore not alot of wins.

    end of the day the only stat that really matters is wins. The Jets have 10 and counting, that's good enough for me. What did we expect? 12? 13? maybe expectations are too high this year. if they keep improving and peak at the right time that's all we can ask for...

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Warfish;3873618]I disagree. If a team is consistently a poor scoring team, year-to-year and with different personel, one has to consider (at least) that the scheme and playcalling could be part of the problem. When a variety of variables all perform the same way, it's time to look at the constants.[/QUOTE]

    Adriene Clarke, Clements on the o-line. WR's at the end of the line like Coles. Pennington hurt all the time. Sorry it doesn't compare at all to what the team has now. You can bash Shotty for the offense now as we have talent (other than very hot and cold play by the QB) but other years there is simply no tools. This goes for many other coaches.

    Mike Martz, genius when he has the st louis rams talent. Bum when he didn't.

    At this level of football the players make the coach as much as the other way around.
    Last edited by Beerfish; 12-20-2010 at 03:41 PM.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=bitonti;3873692]if they keep improving and peak at the right time that's all we can ask for...[/QUOTE]

    Except they are not improving (On O). They're deteriorating.

    And with respect, we (fans) can ask for more, based on the talent we posess on that side of the ball.

    Why is it so hated to want more, given who we have? Why the loyalty to Shotty from the small portion ofthe fanbase who defends him? Are you truly of the beleif that he is the best O-Co in the NFL, and that we simply cannot do better? That we have scored as much as possibel this year, and that no other O-Co could have done better?

    Why is ti we're willing to desire players cut and improved upon all day long, but some find wanting a Coach improved upon (after 5 years of medicority and excuses) to be so detestable?

    I'm amazed that anyone would claim to be satisifed by the production of our O over the past 5 years, wins or not.

    [QUOTE=Beerfish;3873700]At this level of football the players make the coach as much as the other way around.[/QUOTE]

    I don't disagree per se.

    What I disagree with is any implication that our O lacks talent this year. We are stacked at almost every spot on O with highly talented players, probably the most talented O we've had since 98 at least, and probable since the mid-80's.

    We have the horses. They're not scoring.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Warfish;3873708]Except they are not improving (On O). They're deteriorating.

    And with respect, we (fans) can ask for more, based on the talent we posess on that side of the ball.

    Why is it so hated to want more, given who we have? Why the loyalty to Shotty from the small portion ofthe fanbase who defends him? Are you truly of the beleif that he is the best O-Co in the NFL, and that we simply cannot do better? That we have scored as much as possibel this year, and that no other O-Co could have done better?

    Why is ti we're willing to desire players cut and improved upon all day long, but some find wanting a Coach improved upon (after 5 years of medicority and excuses) to be so detestable?

    I'm amazed that anyone would claim to be satisifed by the production of our O over the past 5 years, wins or not.[/QUOTE]

    I find Pennington's and Favre's success the year after leaving our team interesting as well.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Warfish;3873708]Except they are not improving (On O). They're deteriorating.[/quote]

    I believe the Points Per Game are almost identical between 09 and 10. within a tenth of a point either way. I was looking at the microcosm of improving between the steelers game and the dolphins game.

    [QUOTE=Warfish;3873708]
    Why is it so hated to want more, given who we have? Why the loyalty to Shotty from the small portion ofthe fanbase who defends him? Are you truly of the beleif that he is the best O-Co in the NFL, and that we simply cannot do better? That we have scored as much as possibel this year, and that no other O-Co could have done better?
    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's a valid discussion but the time for this discussion is in the offseason. The 2010 NYJ won't get better by firing Schotty.

    It's not a valid idea to can the OC and replace his playbook in week 15 of a 10 win (so far) season. Football teams are based on practice and repetitions, Best that can happen is you get someone to run Schotty's plays. What's the use of that?

  17. #17
    I give Schotty a lot of schitt. But lets not let Mark off the hook either. He's made some horrible mistakes this season. Thankfully this kid works hard and owns up to his bad play because he usually rebounds well.

    And I agree. I'd rather we went through what we did and then start peaking at the right time... i.e. right now... than being able to boast about a 14 win season.
    Last edited by southside; 12-20-2010 at 01:52 PM.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=bitonti;3873716]I believe the Points Per Game are almost identical between 09 and 10.[/quote]

    As pointed out, for the O's TD's per game (the subject) to be the same, we have to score 6 TD's in the enxt two games.

    And hoenstly Bit, merely equally last year isn't (IMO) good enough. We have much better players and a more experienced QB with a betetr "mentor" backup brought in just for him. Stat Quo or middle-of-the-road mediocrity should not be good enough. We (I think) should want more, want improvement.

    [QUOTE]I think it's a valid discussion but the time for this discussion is in the offseason. The 2010 NYJ won't get better by firing Schotty. [/QUOTE]

    Oh, I agree completely and have said so all year long. You do NOT fire a Co-Coach mid-season, period, it does nothing of value 99.9% of the time.

    And yes, I'm discussing forward, not now. Now we are what we are, stuck with what we have.

    Let me ask you striat up Bit, is it your view that no person the Jets could bring in in 2011 could do a better job that Shotty?

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=southside;3873717]I give Schotty a lot of schitt. But lets not let Mark off the hook either. He's made some horrible mistakes this season. Thankfully this kid works hard and owns up to his bad play because he usually rebounds well.

    And I agree. I'd rather we went through what we did and then start peaking at the right time... i.e. right now... than being able to boast about a 14 win season.[/QUOTE]

    It can also be said that every QB who has managed to get the hell away from Schoddy, has improved. Brees, Rivers, Pennington, Favre.

    Leave Schoddy? Boom! Next year- lights out.

    :yes:

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=freestater;3873726]It can also be said that every QB who has managed to get the hell away from Schoddy, has improved. Brees, Rivers, Pennington, Favre.

    Leave Schoddy? Boom! Next year- lights out.

    :yes:[/QUOTE]

    Oh please... don't get this thing twisted (Herm reference :D)

    I hate this guy, he sucks, I want him fired at the end of the season and by that I mean 3 seasons ago. This guy has to go.

    But Mark has made some fundamental mistakes out there this year as well as Holmes who has literally with two drops cost us 2 wins.

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