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Thread: Sacks

  1. #1
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    Sacks

    Here we are, despite our differences, with 2 of the better records in the NFL. We have one thing in common. We both bemoan our respective team's ability to rush the passer.

    Well the Pats had a good night in the sack area 4 or 5 IIRC, and I thought I'd check to see if we had inched up into the top half of the league in sacks. Well, we hadn't. Still tied for 18th (at least at NFL.com). I then took a look at the leaders and was fairly surprised at what I found. See if you notice it.

    Below you will find a list of the top 10 teams in sacks in the league.

    1. Chargers
    2. Giants
    3 Packers
    4. Raiders
    5. Steelers
    6. Lions
    7. Rams
    8. Titans
    9. Dolphins
    10. Jets

    Yes, you see it too. Only the Steelers and Jets are teams that are in the top 10 sack leaders and are likely to make the playoffs. The Lions, Titans, and Dolphins are out. And the Raiders, Rams, and Chargers are hanging by threads. While only one of the Packers and Giants will make it

    So I have 2 questions. How important are sacks as an indicator of success, when it is very likely that 7 of the top 10 sack teams won't even make the playoffs.

    Secondly, why are Jet fans so dismissive of their pass rush, when they are in the top 10 in sacks.....or is that also another indicator of the useless nature of the "sack" as an indicator of success.

  2. #2
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    Total number of pressures, hurries, and hits matter more than just sacks

  3. #3
    We're also ranked [B][U]last[/U][/B] in the league with only 7 INTs.

    I'm far more concerned with this than our sack total.
    Last edited by dassin; 12-21-2010 at 12:42 PM.

  4. #4
    I think pressures are just as good a barometer...

    But our 3rd down defense is still searching for answers with two games left in the season.

    No sacks, no pressures, no turnovers and it's tough to stomach...

    I think the Pats 3rd down defense is just as bad but has at least gotten better since the first half of the season.

    We've shown zero improvement and it will hurt us come January if we don't do something about it...

    With the Bears O-line and Cutler's penchant for Favresque throws, we had better show a stride or two in that area.

  5. #5
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    The Jets are 9th in FO's Adjusted Sack Rate, which represents sacks (plus intentional grounding penalties) per pass attempt adjusted for down, distance, and opponent.

    Top 10..
    1. Oakland
    2. San Diego
    3. Pittsburgh
    4. NY Giants
    5. Green Bay
    6. Detroit
    7. Philadelphia
    8. Miami
    9. NY Jets
    10. St. Louis

    Bottom 10...
    23. Arizona
    24. Buffalo
    25. Baltimore
    26. Minnesota
    27. Seattle
    28. Washington
    29. New England
    30. Denver
    31. Cincinnati
    32. Tampa Bay

    The Top 10 has more good teams than the Bottom 10.
    Last edited by ozu; 12-21-2010 at 12:45 PM.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=JamaicanJetFan;3874879]Total number of pressures, hurries, and hits matter more than just sacks[/QUOTE]

    Pressures and hits are much more important than sacks. I find it hard to see why fans are so fixated by them. I guess its like HRs in baseball. It also pisses me off no end when the guy who gets the sack preen like a hooker, when it took the effort of 10 other guys to give him that moment.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3874871]Here we are, despite our differences, with 2 of the better records in the NFL. We have one thing in common. We both bemoan our respective team's ability to rush the passer.

    Well the Pats had a good night in the sack area 4 or 5 IIRC, and I thought I'd check to see if we had inched up into the top half of the league in sacks. Well, we hadn't. Still tied for 18th (at least at NFL.com). I then took a look at the leaders and was fairly surprised at what I found. See if you notice it.

    Below you will find a list of the top 10 teams in sacks in the league.

    1. Chargers
    2. Giants
    3 Packers
    4. Raiders
    5. Steelers
    6. Lions
    7. Rams
    8. Titans
    9. Dolphins
    10. Jets

    Yes, you see it too. Only the Steelers and Jets are teams that are in the top 10 sack leaders and are likely to make the playoffs. The Lions, Titans, and Dolphins are out. And the Raiders, Rams, and Chargers are hanging by threads. While only one of the Packers and Giants will make it

    So I have 2 questions. How important are sacks as an indicator of success, when it is very likely that 7 of the top 10 sack teams won't even make the playoffs.

    Secondly, why are Jet fans so dismissive of their pass rush, when they are in the top 10 in sacks.....or is that also another indicator of the useless nature of the "sack" as an indicator of success.[/QUOTE]


    You have Superman at QB. That's why you've been able to overcome your defense's deficiencies.

    As for the constant talk about our team's pass rush, it's because it is very inconsistent. Watch any of our games, and you'll see that we do not pressure the QB enough.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3874893]Pressures and hits are much more important than sacks. I find it hard to see why fans are so fixated by them. I guess its like HRs in baseball. It also pisses me off no end when the guy who gets the sack preen like a hooker, when it took the effort of 10 other guys to give him that moment.[/QUOTE]

    Our lack of speed has led to many, missed sacks.
    Ben should have gone down another 4 times on Sunday, guys were coming in out of control.

  9. #9
    I can't find info on it. But somethig is wrong when the Jets allow 51% completion rate, but give up 21TDs, 7INTs, and seemingly every 3rd and long conversion imaginable.

    I'm trying to find stats on defensive 3rd and longs, but can't do it.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=ozu;3874891]The Jets are 9th in FO's Adjusted Sack Rate, which represents sacks (plus intentional grounding penalties) per pass attempt adjusted for down, distance, and opponent.

    Top 10..
    1. Oakland
    2. San Diego
    3. Pittsburgh
    4. NY Giants
    5. Green Bay
    6. Detroit
    7. Philadelphia
    8. Miami
    9. NY Jets
    10. St. Louis

    New England is 29th.[/QUOTE]

    Well either way you end up with pretty much the same results.

    BTW- NE may be 29th in the league in that stat. Its even lower I think in pass yardage. However here's the one stat I CAN live with, and that's 12 wins in 14 games. That's tied for FIRST....and its the only stat that counts. :D

  11. #11
    We haven't been able to effectively bring pressure much this season.

    With how often we blitz vs. our low rate of sacks and hurries we'd probably have gotten shredded more often if not for Revis and Cromartie (sometimes).

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3874903]BTW- NE may be 29th in the league in that stat. Its even lower I think in pass yardage. However here's the one stat I CAN live with, and that's 12 wins in 14 games. That's tied for FIRST....and its the only stat that counts. :D[/QUOTE]Like sourceworx said, you have a top 3 QB all-time that's pretty good at hiding your team's defensive shortcomings. That doesn't mean however, that pass rush is not as important as previously thought. It just means that the Pats are an outlier.

  13. #13
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    ... in order to achieve that top 10 ranking the jets have had to bring many different blitz packages ... leaving us more vulnerable on the back end ...

    ... cro has been excellent all year and revis has been spectacular ... after those two there has been a sharp drop off in our secondary and nickel/dime packages ...


    ... i do think they are a useful measure ... but as many have stated hurries are more useful ... also it depends on what steps the D has to take in order to get that sack ...






    l_j_r

  14. #14
    Yeah, I'd also like to see a ranking of quarterback hurries/knockdowns. Pass rush [I]is[/I] important, it just doesn't always end up in a sack.

    What you say is partly true, but you also need to remember that sacks only represent the performance of that particular teams defense (not their offense). The team might miss the playoffs because their quarterback is hurt or just flat out sucks (see MIA).

    In fact, six of the top ten teams in sacks are also top ten in total defense. Also, is it a coincidence that the same two teams that lead the league in sacks also lead the league in total defense? (SD and NYG are 1 and 2, respectively, in both categories).

    You can only hide your lack of pass rush for so long. While I agree that sacks might not be the best measure, that certainly does not mean pass rush is insignificant. We missed the SB because of it. Take a look at your Sunday night game. Matt Flynn, first career start, had all day to throw and made your defense look like it didn't belong in the playoffs. He was a poorly managed two minute drill away from embarrasing Tom Brady at home.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3874871]

    Secondly, why are Jet fans so dismissive of their pass rush, when they are in the top 10 in sacks.....or is that also another indicator of the useless nature of the "sack" as an indicator of success.[/QUOTE]

    The Jets blitz more than most teams so we get our share of sacks. It's not so much about sacks, the Jets just give qb's that extra two seconds to let receivers shake our safeties.

    It's about pressure, not necessarily sacks.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=ozu;3874910]Like sourceworx said, you have a top 3 QB all-time that's pretty good at hiding your team's defensive shortcomings. That doesn't mean however, that pass rush is not as important as previously thought. It just means that the Pats are an outlier.[/QUOTE]

    No you are absolutely correct. In this league at this time, being able to create pressure with a 4 man rush is critical to good defense. If you can't then any team with a top notch QB will pick apart a zone D or a blitzing D.

    Any team that hopes to beat the Pats this year is going to have to create pressure with 4 men and cover well underneath...and not just 2 or 3 guys. And even then as Brady proved, the offense is still going to move the ball more often than not. I thought the Packers did an excellent job, but Brady still put up 24 points in just 19 minutes of having the ball.

    BTW- the key to the time of possession discrepancy was the Pats losing 2 possessions because of the onside kick and the pick 6

  17. #17
    I agree with OP, the Jets pass rush is actually better than last year.

    Their 3rd and long woes have more to do with the safeties than the pass rush.

    [QUOTE=JamaicanJetFan;3874879]Total number of pressures, hurries, and hits matter more than just sacks[/QUOTE]

    if this were true than people would love Vernon Gholston. he's got pressures hurries and hits.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=dassin;3874880]We're also ranked [B][U]last[/U][/B] in the league with only 7 INTs.

    I'm far more concerned with this than our sack total.[/QUOTE]

    INTs can't happen if the Opposing QB isn't throwing toward our Corners, you know..... :(

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3874893]Pressures and hits are much more important than sacks. I find it hard to see why fans are so fixated by them. I guess its like HRs in baseball. It also pisses me off no end when the guy who gets the sack [b]preen like a hooker[/b], when it took the effort of 10 other guys to give him that moment.[/QUOTE]


    You, of course, would know what that is. :rolleyes:

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=lamont_jordan_rules;3874912]... in order to achieve that top 10 ranking the jets have had to bring many different blitz packages ... leaving us more vulnerable on the back end ...

    ... cro has been excellent all year and revis has been spectacular ... after those two there has been a sharp drop off in our secondary and nickel/dime packages ...


    ... i do think they are a useful measure ... but as many have stated hurries are more useful ... also it depends on what steps the D has to take in order to get that sack ...






    l_j_r[/QUOTE]

    That's what you get when you pay a CB like a Pass Rusher. The whole idea is that you can blitz extra people because he doesn't need help. The Jets paid Revis what the top pass rushers in the league get.

    They could have signed Julius Peppers and not paid Revis. this is what the team is going to be....

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