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Thread: Sacks

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3874900]I can't find info on it. [b]But somethig is wrong when the Jets allow 51% completion rate, but give up 21TDs, 7INTs, and seemingly every 3rd and long conversion imaginable.[/b]

    I'm trying to find stats on defensive 3rd and longs, but can't do it.[/QUOTE]


    Can you say ERIC SMITH at Safety? CAN YOU SAY LEONARD INJURED??


    I swear that the Jets Defense in the middle of the field in the Secondary is softer than Charmin.

    Plus, when we have the QB in a 3rd and very long, we still bring the house which enables him to complete a pass to a WR who is one-on-one with a defender.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=ozu;3874891]The Jets are 9th in FO's Adjusted Sack Rate, which represents sacks (plus intentional grounding penalties) per pass attempt adjusted for down, distance, and opponent.

    Top 10..
    1. Oakland
    2. San Diego
    3. Pittsburgh
    4. NY Giants
    5. Green Bay
    6. Detroit
    7. Philadelphia
    8. Miami
    9. NY Jets
    10. St. Louis

    Bottom 10...
    23. Arizona
    24. Buffalo
    25. Baltimore
    26. Minnesota
    27. Seattle
    28. Washington
    29. New England
    30. Denver
    31. Cincinnati
    32. Tampa Bay

    The Top 10 has more good teams than the Bottom 10.[/QUOTE]
    which proves that being a balanced team is better than being good at only one thing.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=JamaicanJetFan;3874879]Total number of pressures, hurries, and hits matter more than just sacks[/QUOTE]

    /end thread

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3874871]Here we are, despite our differences, with 2 of the better records in the NFL. We have one thing in common. We both bemoan our respective team's ability to rush the passer.

    Well the Pats had a good night in the sack area 4 or 5 IIRC, and I thought I'd check to see if we had inched up into the top half of the league in sacks. Well, we hadn't. Still tied for 18th (at least at NFL.com). I then took a look at the leaders and was fairly surprised at what I found. See if you notice it.

    Below you will find a list of the top 10 teams in sacks in the league.

    1. Chargers
    2. Giants
    3 Packers
    4. Raiders
    5. Steelers
    6. Lions
    7. Rams
    8. Titans
    9. Dolphins
    10. Jets

    Yes, you see it too. Only the Steelers and Jets are teams that are in the top 10 sack leaders and are likely to make the playoffs. The Lions, Titans, and Dolphins are out. And the Raiders, Rams, and Chargers are hanging by threads. While only one of the Packers and Giants will make it

    So I have 2 questions. How important are sacks as an indicator of success, when it is very likely that 7 of the top 10 sack teams won't even make the playoffs.

    Secondly, why are Jet fans so dismissive of their pass rush, when they are in the top 10 in sacks.....or is that also another indicator of the useless nature of the "sack" as an indicator of success.[/QUOTE]

    WOW....even I must bow down to this post and [B]NOT tell you GFY[/B]!

    Good post, interesting how stats tell a different story from what we believe.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=fidelioion;3875006]That's what you get when you pay a CB like a Pass Rusher. The whole idea is that you can blitz extra people because he doesn't need help. The Jets paid Revis what the top pass rushers in the league get.

    [B]They could have signed Julius Peppers [/B]and not paid Revis. this is what the team is going to be....[/QUOTE]


    No, no they could not have.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=Timmy®;3874926]The Jets blitz more than most teams so we get our share of sacks. It's not so much about sacks, the Jets just give qb's that extra two seconds to let receivers shake our safeties.

    It's about pressure, not necessarily sacks.[/QUOTE]

    And thats the trade off. We blitz a ton more than most of the other top 10 (I am guessing) to achieve moderate pressure - and thats why we get killed on 3rd down because when you play w fire you get burnt sometimes.

  7. #27
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    I've always thought that pass pressures and hurries are more important than sacks, and that's where the Jets struggle. When I do the charting of the Jets games for FO, it's very rare that I mark a "pass pressure" on a play when there isn't a sack. That's largely because there's no one on this defense who can reliably beat their blocker, so sacks almost always have to come from the defense being confused and leaving someone unblocked. Conventional 4 man rushes are almost completley ineffective for this team.

    The Jets signed Calvin Pace to fill the role of a Tamba Hali, James Harrison, Clay Matthews, Demarcus Ware, Elvis Dumervil etc.. type, but he's not in that level, and he'd probably be better as the second pass rusher, paired with another excellent edge rusher. Not sure who that other rusher could be though.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=Vin;3875010]Can you say ERIC SMITH at Safety? CAN YOU SAY LEONARD INJURED??


    I swear that the Jets Defense in the middle of the field in the Secondary is softer than Charmin.

    Plus, when we have the QB in a 3rd and very long, we still bring the house which enables him to complete a pass to a WR who is one-on-one with a defender.[/QUOTE]

    Leonard's been injured for 3 games, The Jets had only 7 INTs in 11 games before the injuries, and still gave up 15TDs.

    Roethlisberger had all day to throw on the last drive. That's the biggest issue. Yes, the lack of a good safety is a big problem too, but when you give a good QB all day to throw the ball, he will often complete passes, just think about the last 2 plays. He had 5 seconds Plus on each of the last 2 plays to throw the ball. At some point Safties and 3rd CBs are going to get beat.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Vin;3875010]Plus, when we have the QB in a 3rd and very long, we still bring the house[/QUOTE]

    Really? Because it's been the exact opposite lately...

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3875106]Leonard's been injured for 3 games, The Jets had only 7 INTs in 11 games before the injuries, and still gave up 15TDs.

    Roethlisberger had all day to throw on the last drive. That's the biggest issue. Yes, the lack of a good safety is a big problem too, but when you give a good QB all day to throw the ball, he will often complete passes, just think about the last 2 plays. [B]He had 5 seconds Plus on each of the last 2 plays to throw the ball. At some point Safties and 3rd CBs are going to get beat[/B].[/QUOTE]

    +1. On this board people will criticize Coleman or Wilson when their guy gets open, but a CB like Revis who can cover a receiver 1 on 1 for long periods of time is the exception, not the rule. There aren't 3rd CBs in the NFL who are very good at covering. If they were, they wouldn't be 3rd CBs anymore. The key is to get pass rush in the situations where teams have more receivers (and therefore less blockers) on the field.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3874928]BTW- the key to the time of possession discrepancy was the Pats losing 2 possessions because of the onside kick and the pick 6[/QUOTE]


    ... greenbay put up some very solid long drives as well throughout the game ...










    l_j_r

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=njherdfan;3875113]+1. On this board people will criticize Coleman or Wilson when their guy gets open, but a CB like Revis who can cover a receiver 1 on 1 for long periods of time is the exception, not the rule. There aren't 3rd CBs in the NFL who are very good at covering. If they were, they wouldn't be 3rd CBs anymore. The key is to get pass rush in the situations where teams have more receivers (and therefore less blockers) on the field.[/QUOTE]

    In fairness, Wilson wasn't drafted to be a 3rd CB.

    His skills should far surpass that of Drew Coleman who was picked in the 6th round...

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;3875118]In fairness, Wilson wasn't drafted to be a 3rd CB.

    His skills should far surpass that of Drew Coleman who was picked in the 6th round...[/QUOTE]

    True, I meant more specifically Wilson for this year, when he was expected to be the 3rd CB. I was referring more to 3rd CBs in general, and stating that they can't really be expected to cover for long periods of time. I'm hopeful Wilson becomes a 2nd CB on the Jets for a long time.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=njherdfan;3875122]True, I meant more specifically Wilson for this year, when he was expected to be the 3rd CB. I was referring more to 3rd CBs in general, and stating that they can't really be expected to cover for long periods of time. I'm hopeful Wilson becomes a 2nd CB on the Jets for a long time.[/QUOTE]

    Amen. And that Cole steps up to a decent 3rd CB role :yes:

  15. #35
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    You can get away with pressuring some teams with exotic blitzes and such but against some teams you have to be able to pressure with 4 lineman. Teams that have been able to get after Brady/Manning with a base rush and the odd blitz stuck in there have done better than teams that have to blitz alot or cannot get any pressure with 4 players. (See the Jets getting carved up like a Christmas turkey.)

    Also the Jets DB's have something like 10 sacks. It's nice to get sacks but when you are bringing DB's a lot you are taking chances.

    The benefit the Pats have over the Jets (And Indy has over many teams) is that they can score huge points on any given game and get away with the games their D is having problems.

  16. #36
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    I'm not sure how there could be MULTIPLE opinions here that pressures and hurries are more valuable than sacks.
    Hurries=zero yards
    Sacks=NEGATIVE YARDS and a QB hit.
    No brainer. We need more sacks.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=lamont_jordan_rules;3875116]... greenbay put up some very solid long drives as well throughout the game ...
    l_j_r[/QUOTE]

    No doubt. The Pats have made the first start of 2 QBs good memories this season. Don't forget Colt McCoy earlier in the season.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=fidelioion;3875006]That's what you get when you pay a CB like a Pass Rusher. The whole idea is that you can blitz extra people because he doesn't need help. The Jets paid Revis what the top pass rushers in the league get.

    They could have signed Julius Peppers and not paid Revis. this is what the team is going to be....[/QUOTE]

    Revis didn't get top corner money.

    He has nothing to do with Peppers.

    Doesn't even take into account that Revis is a much better football player than Peppers has ever been.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=jayjay;3875145]I'm not sure how there could be MULTIPLE opinions here that pressures and hurries are more valuable than sacks.
    Hurries=zero yards
    Sacks=NEGATIVE YARDS and a QB hit.
    No brainer. We need more sacks.[/QUOTE]

    Hurries can lead to turnovers just as easily as sacks can.

    We don't get much pressure, hence the low interception number but seemingly skewed rank on our sack total...

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;3875154]Revis didn't get top corner money.[/QUOTE]

    Huh?

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