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Thread: Sacks

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;3875118]In fairness, Wilson wasn't drafted to be a 3rd CB.

    His skills should far surpass that of Drew Coleman who was picked in the 6th round...[/QUOTE]

    Interesting that you say that, because I thought that was exactly what he was drafted for. At least for this year. Wasn't the predominant thinking when he was drafted that his skills were perfect to cover slot receivers like Welker?

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=jayjay;3875145]I'm not sure how there could be MULTIPLE opinions here that pressures and hurries are more valuable than sacks.
    Hurries=zero yards
    Sacks=NEGATIVE YARDS and a QB hit.
    No brainer. We need more sacks.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think there's anyone who argues they were more valuable than sacks. However, they do have value. A team that gets a lot of pressure on a QB, even when they don't get a sack is going to be better off than a team that gets no pressure.

    The Jets have issues because of the lack of pressure, that's why Roethlisberger can complete 3rd and 24, 3rd and 18, 3rd and 10, and so on. That's why the Texans, Browns, and Steelers were all able to mount 4th quarter drives against the Jets.
    The sack is one of the most valuable things a defense can do, but the Jets are forced to sell out the defensive backs to bring pressure, often 5 or 6 guys, because they almost never get pressure from their front 4 alone.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3875164]I don't think there's anyone who argues they were more valuable than sacks. However, they do have value. A team that gets a lot of pressure on a QB, even when they don't get a sack is going to be better off than a team that gets no pressure.

    The Jets have issues because of the lack of pressure, that's why Roethlisberger can complete 3rd and 24, 3rd and 18, 3rd and 10, and so on. That's why the Texans, Browns, and Steelers were all able to mount 4th quarter drives against the Jets.
    The sack is one of the most valuable things a defense can do, but the Jets are forced to sell out the defensive backs to bring pressure, often 5 or 6 guys, because they almost never get pressure from their front 4 alone.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed...

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=dassin;3874880]We're also ranked [B][U]last[/U][/B] in the league with only 7 INTs.

    I'm far more concerned with this than our sack total.[/QUOTE]

    Teams have been avoiding throwing to their top 2 WRs. They've been using their TEs and slot. I'd really like to see us upgrade our Safeties.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=jayjay;3875145]I'm not sure how there could be MULTIPLE opinions here that pressures and hurries are more valuable than sacks.
    Hurries=zero yards
    Sacks=NEGATIVE YARDS and a QB hit.
    No brainer. We need more sacks.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, for a no brainner you got it wrong. You would much rather prefer a situation where the QB is harassed every time he attempts a pass, is hit every time he drops back and just isn't allowed to get comfortable in the pocket over a couple of sacks for losses and nothing more.

    It's more than just simple stats.

    That's why it can easily be argued that sacks aren't as important given that scenario.
    Last edited by Jet Nut; 12-21-2010 at 03:20 PM.

  6. #46
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    I suppose it is safe to say that we need to draft a Defensive End or OLB this year. Maybe one of each. I wouldn't mind going to the 4-3 with Devito and Pouha as our DT's. Worth a shot when you have two exceptional tackles like that....

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=dassin;3874880]We're also ranked [B][U]last[/U][/B] in the league with only 7 INTs.

    I'm far more concerned with this than our sack total.[/QUOTE]

    +1

    Especially considering the CB talent we have...7 is 1 more than Revis himself had last year, isn't it?

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;3875163]Interesting that you say that, because I thought that was exactly what he was drafted for. At least for this year. Wasn't the predominant thinking when he was drafted that his skills were perfect to cover slot receivers like Welker?[/QUOTE]

    Rookie CB's need the sideline to help them take away a portion of the field that veteran receivers can use advantageously...

    Then again, you already knew that and were trolling as usual...

  9. #49
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    INT's happen when you are playing from ahead, and we never do that..

    Not only that, we don't have a great pass rush and we play a lot of man to man, which makes it even tougher.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=dassin;3874880]We're also ranked [B][U]last[/U][/B] in the league with only 7 INTs.

    I'm far more concerned with this than our sack total.[/QUOTE]


    yes but if im not mistaken we lead the league in defensive recovered fumbles by a good amount so we still get turnovers just not by ints

  11. #51
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    With a couple speedy pass rushers, and a ballhawk safety this defense is completely set...i def see a lot of changes to the D over the next year or so...

    Ellis - gone
    Bryan Thomas - gone
    Calvin Pace - gone
    David Harris - idk i give him 50/50, not that i dont want him here i love him...but depends on how much he asks for, i dont see the jets payin him top $ nor do i think he deserves that (not sayin he sucks, but hes not gettin revis $)
    Poole/Smith - i guess we keep one, draft another and have the one we keep hold the fort til the rookie develops
    kris jenkins - pretty sure his careers over unfortunately

  12. #52
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    I think sacks are a measure of defensive success, but not necessarily team success. Id also agree that pressures are more important than sacks, but normally teams that sack the QB alot generate pressure consistently as well. Id say the exceptions to that are actually the Jets in 2008 and 2010. Its feast or famine with those squads, partially I think because alot of the sacks come from the secondary.

    Anyway I look at that list in two ways. One is that of the more veteran teams 4 of the 6 (7 if you want to include Miami) are likely going to make the playoffs (Chargers, Steelers, Jets, and either GB or NYG). The other category is the younger teams which are trying to build via a pass rush. There is a good chance the Rams will go to the playoffs, though nobody from that division deserves it.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=Much ado about Nothing;3875185]+1

    Especially considering the CB talent we have...7 is 1 more than Revis himself had last year, isn't it?[/QUOTE]

    Thats why the Jets were wise to not get into any crazy long term commitment with Revis. The guy is a great player, but last year was special because he caught the league by surprise with just how good he was. Coaches who watched the tape from 2008, where he was excellent but in a totally different scheme, didnt buy it nor did the receivers he covered. He was targeted more than any corner in the NFL by a pretty wide margin if I remember correctly because they did not believe there was a guy in todays NFL that could go around the field and play man up for a full game.

    That philosophy changed this year and going into the year everyone should have known that. Its a big reason why he and his agent so badly wanted a new deal done off last season. You can just go into a game and decide to play the game 10 on 10 which is what happens this year. Revis is no longer an impact player because of it. That cant be done with an edge rusher which is why they usually get paid more money.

  14. #54
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    Our problem is we're not getting sacks or even pressure rushing 4, so that kind of throws the stats off and is a big reason why we have a hard time stopping the pass.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=Johnny Rico;3874913]Yeah, I'd also like to see a ranking of quarterback hurries/knockdowns. Pass rush [I]is[/I] important, it just doesn't always end up in a sack.

    What you say is partly true, but you also need to remember that sacks only represent the performance of that particular teams defense (not their offense). The team might miss the playoffs because their quarterback is hurt or just flat out sucks (see MIA).

    In fact, six of the top ten teams in sacks are also top ten in total defense. Also, is it a coincidence that the same two teams that lead the league in sacks also lead the league in total defense? (SD and NYG are 1 and 2, respectively, in both categories).

    You can only hide your lack of pass rush for so long. While I agree that sacks might not be the best measure, that certainly does not mean pass rush is insignificant. We missed the SB because of it. Take a look at your Sunday night game. Matt Flynn, first career start, had all day to throw and made your defense look like it didn't belong in the playoffs. He was a poorly managed two minute drill away from embarrasing Tom Brady at home.[/QUOTE]

    It is also important to note that sacks are sometimes abolustely meaningless altogether, as it was in our last year under Mangini. Halfway through the season we were top 5 in sacks but our pass rush was atrocious. We would get 3 sacks a game but other than those 3 plays we would get absolutely no pass rush on every other passing play the rest of the game. This is not close to as valuable as not getting just one sack in a game but putting consistent pressure on the QB. If you get consistent pressure, then the QB will make his throws half a second quicker than he needs to, with a little less accuracy.

    Also, SD and NYG dont have the best defenses. They may rank that way under the idiotic NFL system that ranks defenses by yards and not points, and rush yards a game and pass yards a game rather than yards per rush and pass yards per attempt. Not sure about the Chargers but the Giants are about 15th in the league in points allowed this year.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=Vin;3875003]INTs can't happen if the Opposing QB isn't throwing toward our Corners, you know..... :([/QUOTE]

    +1.

    It seems like opposing teams mostly just target Smith, Coleman and our LB's. They really haven't had to go after Revis or Cro unless they throw deep which is hard to pick off anyways.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;3875344]Rookie CB's need the sideline to help them take away a portion of the field that veteran receivers can use advantageously...

    Then again, you already knew that and were trolling as usual...[/QUOTE]

    Wilson was drafted because the jets had him ranked in that slot.

    Slot receivers don't run down the sideline? Flankers only run sideline paterns?\

    There is much more help on D for a corner on a receiver running out of the slot than one on the outside. 15 yds down the field on a pass play how often doyou see a gang tackle? What about a slot receiver running a 7yd curl? he gets hit by three guys all around him.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=patman;3875928]Wilson was drafted because the jets had him ranked in that slot.

    Slot receivers don't run down the sideline? Flankers only run sideline paterns?\

    There is much more help on D for a corner on a receiver running out of the slot than one on the outside. 15 yds down the field on a pass play how often doyou see a gang tackle? What about a slot receiver running a 7yd curl? he gets hit by three guys all around him.[/QUOTE]

    You lost yourself.

    Why would you draft a 3rd CB in the 1st round... You're paying far too much attention to some of the fans here.

    He was...Plan C for CB2 and Cromartie was Plan B for CB1. That worked out in our favor when Revis held out...

    We're not going to have 1st round money tied up in 3 CB's... It's simply not logical... One of those 1st rounders is making well over average market value, the other will be looking for an above average deal as well, although not to that level...

    Wilson, aside from a few boneheaded misques actually played better against the sideline... Just like McCourty has.

    It's a lot less to think about when a portion of the field is removed from a receiver... You can press and even if they break and roll to the sideline, there isn't that much ground to cover when you lost them...

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=Jason423;3875441]Thats why the Jets were wise to not get into any crazy long term commitment with Revis. The guy is a great player, but last year was special because he caught the league by surprise with just how good he was. Coaches who watched the tape from 2008, where he was excellent but in a totally different scheme, didnt buy it nor did the receivers he covered. He was targeted more than any corner in the NFL by a pretty wide margin if I remember correctly because they did not believe there was a guy in todays NFL that could go around the field and play man up for a full game.

    That philosophy changed this year and going into the year everyone should have known that. Its a big reason why he and his agent so badly wanted a new deal done off last season. You can just go into a game and decide to play the game 10 on 10 which is what happens this year. Revis is no longer an impact player because of it. That cant be done with an edge rusher which is why they usually get paid more money.[/QUOTE]

    This may be my favorite post on this site ever.

  20. #60
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    I dont know why we are even talking about the defense. it's a championship caliber defense... any way you slice it.

    they are 10th in sacks. 5th in overall defense and ppg. only 2 other teams (OAK and TEN) have 2 safeties this year. (the scoring 2 point kind not the defensive back)

    The offense is the ?? on the Jets. not the Defense.

    life in the NFL in 2010 if you can hold the other team to less than 20 points regularly it's a very good job. we've gotten spoiled with Rex Ryan defense.
    Last edited by bitonti; 12-22-2010 at 10:09 AM.

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