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Thread: Mo's Early Mock Draft

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by patsfanken View Post
    Thanks for the response. With 7 picks in the top 4 rounds and 3 in the top 33, I'm hoping the Pats can come up with at least TWO impact rookies and a few more who might develop.

    If you had asked me before the season started, I would have GUARANTEED that BB would do whatever he had to in order to get the best 3-4 DE prospect available. However the Pats have had a lot of very young DLmen get a lot quality snaps this season. Brace has risen from rookie year busthood to quality starts this season. Deadrick a 7th round pick also has had some quality starts, but seems to have hit the rookie wall, and last year's surprise, Myron Prior has been hurt a good deal of the season. Also Ty Warren coming back healthy for the first time in 3 years will be more a DL impact player than anyone they could draft, so now I don't know where they will go.

    Other "common wisdom" directions is for them to go RB with the bama kid, but
    why waste first round capital when you have 2 young UDFAs who are giving you all the running game you need. And why risk a high pick on a RB which carries a big risk, when good ones can be found all through the draft and more proven ones in FA

    The Pats definitely need to look to start rebuilding the OL. Who knows what will happen with Mankins. If he signs the Pats will need to think about drafting a replacement for Light and Koppen, but I think both will be back for 2011.

    That leaves the usual suspect, which is the OLB/pass rushers that EVERONE wants. That's why Quinn is so interesting to me. While BB is always looking to add picks, I think THIS draft will see a change in stragety. Because he's hit so well in the last 2 drafts and has so many picks this draft, I think he will be looking more for quality than quantity. I think the team is good enough for BB to take more risks on drafting a few exceptional players than a lot of good ones

    My issue is wondering if there are more than a few exceptional players in this draft.
    I wait for it ever year, but I feel like he plays a probability game and that's his strategy that he doesn't abandon. Whereas tanny sees the picks as ammo to get "his guys", BB seems to view them as additional lottery tickets if you get what I am saying. See everyone thinks "oh look at BB loading up on picks to go up grab elite prospects". I see it as "look at BB getting more tries at getting a prospect to pan out". Every year could be the one in which I am wrong but I think he'll stand pat like he usually does.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    Aldon Smith/DE-OLB/Mizzou entering.....

    Muhammed Wilkerson/DL/Temple entering....
    Wilkerson makes it official....

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Just pm us.

    I disagree somewhat with comments made above though in this thread. David Harris is a core player in my opinion. We need to upgrade OLB for sure but Scott and Harris are key and I'd keep Harris over Scott if one had to make a choice.
    Sorry, I gotta disagree Fish...I would rather us save the money and let Harris go and get a compensatory pick, then use Westerman inside...that, or if we can afford it, sign Harris and then cut Scott. I think one of them has to go.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaSteve View Post
    Sorry, I gotta disagree Fish...I would rather us save the money and let Harris go and get a compensatory pick, then use Westerman inside...that, or if we can afford it, sign Harris and then cut Scott. I think one of them has to go.
    I agree...ILB in a 3-4 is traditionally a plug and play type thing...find a stout guy you think can handle it and plug him right in...one of the Harris/Scott combo won't be here next year IMO because there's just no point in having 2 $8 million ILBs.

    Patfan - I think the Pats will take one of the big 3-4 DE prospects...I've said it already but I see me flipping my shyte when they land Heyward...after that I'll have to root for landing Powe/Ellis + Wilkerson. You're right that they've found some good rotation guys lately, but I think they're going to want a 3rd D1 type starter on their DL to go with Wilfork and Warren.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaSteve View Post
    Sorry, I gotta disagree Fish...I would rather us save the money and let Harris go and get a compensatory pick, then use Westerman inside...that, or if we can afford it, sign Harris and then cut Scott. I think one of them has to go.
    I need to credit "Crasherino" for the possible concept of cutting Scott and keeping Harris, The Jets would have to eat some dead money, but I agree with Fish, Harris is a true core player. IMO there may be a couple of guys that could play next to Harris, Westerman as you mentioned would be the leading candidate, Mauga is a possability, but I like (hope) Cody Brown...Also IMO you can draft a decent prospect for ILB in the 4th round...let me champion the idea of 1 million dollar salary cuts for Scott, Pace Thomas and Ellis, to create room for Harris
    Last edited by JetOrange; 01-06-2011 at 01:12 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaSteve View Post
    Sorry, I gotta disagree Fish...I would rather us save the money and let Harris go and get a compensatory pick, then use Westerman inside...that, or if we can afford it, sign Harris and then cut Scott. I think one of them has to go.
    It goes against my rule #1 of team building. Never make a point of strength a potential weakness. The Jets have had a good run defense the last few years and I think it's easy to take that for granted. Replacing a guy we know helps the run defense with a guy we hope can play doesn't make sense to me unless your hand is really forced by the salary cap.

    If you dump Harris and a year or two down the road on these draft forms we are all talking about the critical need for an ILB then you have gone backwards not forwards imo.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    It goes against my rule #1 of team building. Never make a point of strength a potential weakness. The Jets have had a good run defense the last few years and I think it's easy to take that for granted. Replacing a guy we know helps the run defense with a guy we hope can play doesn't make sense to me unless your hand is really forced by the salary cap.

    If you dump Harris and a year or two down the road on these draft forms we are all talking about the critical need for an ILB then you have gone backwards not forwards imo.
    The DL is much more important to a 3-4's Run D than the ILBs...upgrade the DL and losing one of the run stuffers at ILBs hurts much less. Both Harris and Scott are such a big deal for our run D because our DL talent is not up to par with most other really good 3-4 teams....The Steelers, Pats, and Ravens have Hampton/Wilfork/Ngata...we have Pouha.

    I'm of the belief that if you're a LB in the 6'-6'3" 240-250 range, you can tackle, but you're not a real pass rusher at LB then there's a good chance you can turn into a good 3-4 ILB.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    It goes against my rule #1 of team building. Never make a point of strength a potential weakness. The Jets have had a good run defense the last few years and I think it's easy to take that for granted. Replacing a guy we know helps the run defense with a guy we hope can play doesn't make sense to me unless your hand is really forced by the salary cap.

    If you dump Harris and a year or two down the road on these draft forms we are all talking about the critical need for an ILB then you have gone backwards not forwards imo.
    that's fine....keeping Harris; but we can't pay for both Scott AND Harris, so if we can't dump Scott, we won't be resigning Harris.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing View Post
    The DL is much more important to a 3-4's Run D than the ILBs...upgrade the DL and losing one of the run stuffers at ILBs hurts much less. Both Harris and Scott are such a big deal for our run D because our DL talent is not up to par with most other really good 3-4 teams....The Steelers, Pats, and Ravens have Hampton/Wilfork/Ngata...we have Pouha.

    I'm of the belief that if you're a LB in the 6'-6'3" 240-250 range, you can tackle, but you're not a real pass rusher at LB then there's a good chance you can turn into a good 3-4 ILB.
    Harris is severely overrated (not to be confused with actually being a bad player). He has never even cracked the top 20 for ILB on PFF. Bart Scott from 2008-2010 has been in the top 20 every year, and top 3 in two of those years (#1 in 08 as a 4-3OLB, #14 2009 (4-3OLB), #3 (3-4ILB)). Also an interesting tidbit is that we played mainly in a 4-3 package during 2009 with BT and Scott playing OLB, while Harris was the MLB.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Harris is severely overrated (not to be confused with actually being a bad player). He has never even cracked the top 20 for ILB on PFF. Bart Scott from 2008-2010 has been in the top 20 every year, and top 3 in two of those years (#1 in 08 as a 4-3OLB, #14 2009 (4-3OLB), #3 (3-4ILB)). Also an interesting tidbit is that we played mainly in a 4-3 package during 2009 with BT and Scott playing OLB, while Harris was the MLB.
    He's severely overrated when compared to Scott, who is a ridiculous player and our best against the run.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing View Post
    He's severely overrated when compared to Scott, who is a ridiculous player and our best against the run.
    Scott is a "ridiculous" player?

    I can't recall a single game that Bart has taken over and dominated since we signed him. And we're paying him as an elite, impact LB.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Scott is a "ridiculous" player?

    I can't recall a single game that Bart has taken over and dominated since we signed him. And we're paying him as an elite, impact LB.
    Impactful would be one word for Scott. Guy's a beast and while he doesn't put up the big stats here he's a big reason Harris puts up his stats.

    Scott's been our best and most steady player on D the past two seasons...probably our most underrated player even if he isn't underpaid. He's the one player we can't afford to lose. He wasn't even healthy last year and he was our best player after Revis...that's why I said ridiculous...dude blows up all running games...alllllll running games....f'n ridickilous.
    Last edited by Much ado about Nothing; 01-06-2011 at 09:35 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing View Post
    Impactful would be one word for Scott. Guy's a beast and while he doesn't put up the big stats here he's a big reason Harris puts up his stats.

    Scott's been our best and most steady player on D the past two seasons...probably our most underrated player even if he isn't underpaid. He's the one player we can't afford to lose. He wasn't even healthy last year and he was our best player after Revis...that's why I said ridiculous...dude blows up all running games...alllllll running games....f'n ridickilous.
    Scott has been the guy doing the dirty work, for the most part. When he came in, one of the appealing things to Rex was that both Scott and Harris could alternate at the MIKE position (I'm not sure what the Jets refer to the "other" MLB but I've seen it as TED in other matters, so I'll go with that) and at TED. The benefit of that is that the QB will have a difficult time ID'ing the MIKE at the line of scrimmage, one of the first things that is done when he gets under center. Scott was pretty much the TED in Baltimore, while Lewis was the MIKE.

    As its played out here, its pretty evident that Scott has mainly filled the role of TED, with some mixing up here or there. So, its not surprising that he hasn't really made all that many impact plays - its not his primary role, for the most part.

    The problem is is that Scott is extremely overpaid for that role. You don't need a $7m/yr LB to take on Louska Politte in the hole so that Harris can come free. You can find a 2 down stout LB who is proficient in taking on a Guard/FB and then comes out on 3rd down for a couple o' mil. But, when Scott was signed, Rex was looking for more than just a MLB, he was looking for a mouthpiece, a loyal follower of his system who knows how Rex thinks and can get everyone on the same page a heckuva lot faster than without him. Same with Jim Leonhard.

    Now we are in the situation of what to do now that we've committed all that money. I don't know what the market is for 3-4 MLBs right now - but I'd be surprised if its as big as what Scott got in his deal. I honestly think the Jets have no idea what will happen - it depends how the new CBA works out. But, with Scott 30 years old, and Harris 26, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense (money aside), to get rid of the younger, more effective LB and keep the older one. In my mind, the best path forward is to figure out how to lower (or rid yourself) of Scott's $$$ in the future, simply because of his role on this team. After next year, Scott appears to have a dead money hit of $3 million. He's cuttable enough for the Jets to approach him to take a salary cut. Perhaps they'll even do that as soon as the CBA is nailed down.

    Bottom line, Harris is a better and younger player than Scott. He had somewhat of a down year, statistics-wise, which bodes somewhat well for the Jets bargaining position. But, that fact that the team voted him MVP demonstrates how valued the team thinks he is. I don't think the team will walk away from him so willingly.
    Last edited by crasherino; 01-07-2011 at 09:53 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing View Post
    The DL is much more important to a 3-4's Run D than the ILBs...upgrade the DL and losing one of the run stuffers at ILBs hurts much less. Both Harris and Scott are such a big deal for our run D because our DL talent is not up to par with most other really good 3-4 teams....The Steelers, Pats, and Ravens have Hampton/Wilfork/Ngata...we have Pouha.

    I'm of the belief that if you're a LB in the 6'-6'3" 240-250 range, you can tackle, but you're not a real pass rusher at LB then there's a good chance you can turn into a good 3-4 ILB.
    We have been complaining about a pass rush from our front 7 not run defense. I agree completely that we should be looking to upgrade the d-line in this draft or via free agency. Our present run defense from the d-line is superb if you ask me. Ellis, Devito, Pouha and almost anyone else we put in there plays the run well.

    I'll stick with my previous statement, unless there is a damn good reason to downgrade your talent at a position don't do it. (And inserting Westerman for Harris is a downgrade.) Hey is Harris is asking for the sun the moon and the stars and you can't resign him fine, but your still going to be weaker at the ILB spot if you punt him.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    We have been complaining about a pass rush from our front 7 not run defense. I agree completely that we should be looking to upgrade the d-line in this draft or via free agency. Our present run defense from the d-line is superb if you ask me. Ellis, Devito, Pouha and almost anyone else we put in there plays the run well.

    I'll stick with my previous statement, unless there is a damn good reason to downgrade your talent at a position don't do it. (And inserting Westerman for Harris is a downgrade.) Hey is Harris is asking for the sun the moon and the stars and you can't resign him fine, but your still going to be weaker at the ILB spot if you punt him.
    I'll put it this way...it's easier to manufacture production from an ILB in the 3-4 than it is to manufacture better DL play...Pouha and gang are a good group of guys but while our D has Pouha/DeVito the big 3-4s have Ngata/Smith/Hampton/Wilfork/Warren/Ratliff...

    Our DL does a good job against the runs, but we also ask our ILBs, especially Scott, to help out there more than I'm guessing they'd like to.

    Crash, as far as Scott being overpaid that's subjective...I don't believe Harris could do what Scott does for this D, and if he could I don't believe he'd do it as well...I maintain that Scott is our most consistently dominant player in the front 7 and our best player against the run...and that's just what he's done here...don't forget in Baltimore under Rex he's also a guy who threw up a 9 sack season and he's got 3 career INTs...he's a guy who's entirely capable of making plays.
    Last edited by Much ado about Nothing; 01-07-2011 at 10:43 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    Scott has been the guy doing the dirty work, for the most part. When he came in, one of the appealing things to Rex was that both Scott and Harris could alternate at the MIKE position (I'm not sure what the Jets refer to the "other" MLB but I've seen it as TED in other matters, so I'll go with that) and at TED. The benefit of that is that the QB will have a difficult time ID'ing the MIKE at the line of scrimmage, one of the first things that is done when he gets under center. Scott was pretty much the TED in Baltimore, while Lewis was the MIKE.

    As its played out here, its pretty evident that Scott has mainly filled the role of TED, with some mixing up here or there. So, its not surprising that he hasn't really made all that many impact plays - its not his primary role, for the most part.

    The problem is is that Scott is extremely overpaid for that role. You don't need a $7m/yr LB to take on Louska Politte in the hole so that Harris can come free. You can find a 2 down stout LB who is proficient in taking on a Guard/FB and then comes out on 3rd down for a couple o' mil. But, when Scott was signed, Rex was looking for more than just a MLB, he was looking for a mouthpiece, a loyal follower of his system who knows how Rex thinks and can get everyone on the same page a heckuva lot faster than without him. Same with Jim Leonhard.

    Now we are in the situation of what to do now that we've committed all that money. I don't know what the market is for 3-4 MLBs right now - but I'd be surprised if its as big as what Scott got in his deal. I honestly think the Jets have no idea what will happen - it depends how the new CBA works out. But, with Scott 30 years old, and Harris 26, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense (money aside), to get rid of the younger, more effective LB and keep the older one. In my mind, the best path forward is to figure out how to lower (or rid yourself) of Scott's $$$ in the future, simply because of his role on this team. After next year, Scott appears to have a dead money hit of $3 million. He's cuttable enough for the Jets to approach him to take a salary cut. Perhaps they'll even do that as soon as the CBA is nailed down.

    Bottom line, Harris is a better and younger player than Scott. He had somewhat of a down year, statistics-wise, which bodes somewhat well for the Jets bargaining position. But, that fact that the team voted him MVP demonstrates how valued the team thinks he is. I don't think the team will walk away from him so willingly.
    Harris' numbers from people watching every down for every player are never all that high. Again he makes some big stops but on the whole it has been Scott who has been the far superior player. I can only hope that FO sees that. Scott has a run defense score of +27.5 (where 0 is the avg)! Even last year Harris had a score -3.5 for run defense. Yes he is younger, but I would not give him Scott's contract, who has proven to be an elite run stopper at ILB.

    For those interested in the PFF grading system, since I reference it a lot, take a look: http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/
    You can see why I'd trust their system
    Last edited by TheMo; 01-07-2011 at 11:25 AM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    Aldon Smith/DE-OLB/Mizzou entering.....

    Muhammed Wilkerson/DL/Temple entering....
    Smith makes it official....

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    Smith makes it official....
    Great news.

    I'd love to snag Smith but I'm thinking he could possibly be taken in the 10-20 range now.

    Next to Quinn he may be the best 3-4 OLB in the draft.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Great news.

    I'd love to snag Smith but I'm thinking he could possibly be taken in the 10-20 range now.

    Next to Quinn he may be the best 3-4 OLB in the draft.
    Smith reminds me a little bit of Jason Taylor. I think its because they are both long and lanky.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    Jenkins is gone.....labrum injury for a DB is not serious...the Indiana-Pa kid the cowboys took in round 4 last April had the same issue....
    Will Muschamp appears to have already won his first major recruiting battle -- convincing star junior cornerback Janoris Jenkins to return to Gainesville for his senior season.
    "Gator Nation, I'm back..." read an entry from "jenkz1," posted around 5 PM this afternoon.

    A source with intimate knowledge of the situation, confirms to Swamp247 that Jenkins plans to return for his senior season.

    "He is coming back," the source said. "Will Muschamp did a heck of a job recruiting him [to return to Florida]."

    According to the source, a multitude of factors impacted Jenkins' decision to come back. Not the least of those reasons was a torn labrum, suffered in the season-opener against Miami of Ohio on Sept. 4th.

    "That really opened things up," the source said of the shoulder injury that Jenkins suffered. "He can even lift his arm right now"

    Jenkins had surgery to correct the injury, which kept him out of Florida's 37-24 win over Penn State in the Outback Bowl on Jan. 1st.

    Other factors playing into Jenkins' apparent decision to return? A grade from the NFL Draft Advisory Board which apparently was not as high as originally expected.

    "The 2nd/3rd round grade concerned him," the source told Swamp247 of the feedback Jenkins had received from the NFL. Several NFL Draft analysts -- including Mel Kiper of ESPN -- have given Jenkins first-round grades for April's NFL Draft.

    The potential of an impending NFL lockout by the owners also weighed on Jenkins' decision to return to Florida. However, it seems the chance to help redeem the 2010 season in Will Muschamp's rookie campaign is a strong motivating factor for Jenkins as well.

    "[Janoris] wants to go out on the right note," the source told Swamp247. "He wants to win an SEC Championship, he wants to be All-America, and he wants to bring the Jim Thorpe Award back home to Gainesville."


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