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Thread: Draft and FA wishlist

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    i don't watch the fish much but was incredibly impressed the way their back seven pursue to the ball when i was at the game a few weeks ago...
    its a big difference to us... we're big and slow and lumbering and not frenetic, usually.

    its the one area i think we need to address -- speed and quickness on defense -- outside of CB.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    agree 100% on Holmes- will come cheaper and doesn't make as many bonehead plays on the field....
    Think he'll be cheaper of the two? I didn't, but you're probably right.

    Holmes has made his fair share of bonehead plays this year. His fumbles and dropped TD were among the biggest mistakes for anyone on the offense, outside of Sanchez this year.

    It's a really tough call having to decide between the two players for me.

    I hope they can keep both.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    its a big difference to us... we're big and slow and lumbering and not frenetic, usually.

    its the one area i think we need to address -- speed and quickness on defense -- outside of CB.
    Pace, Taylor, Thomas are just brutal in space. And what the hell happened to Harris?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by gangGREENinsider View Post
    I would absolutely love Bess on this team.

    And sorry bros, I'm taking Holmes over Braylon.

    Holmes recent slump doesn't change the big picture IMO...

    Surprised no one's talking about bringing in a competent 2nd TE- 2 TE sets really make a defense predictable- good for a 3rd year QB....
    Holmes can't shield the slant like Edwards, who surprisingly seems to come out with more throws in traffic. Although if he comes cheaper it'd be a tough call. Also Schotty being a fail of an OC might be masking Holmes a bit, while BE can use his physical play to overcome the schematic failures. I kinda copped out on making a true we can get these guys list, here let me actually write a realistic scenario of what we should get:

    Keep
    Edwards (5mill)- mentioned this above, but physical receiver who can also go deep
    Cromartie (5mil)- he's been a good #2 but nothing elite IMHO; depending on how the CS thinks Wilson is developing, or not developing, they might let Cro walk which would allow us to spend elsewhere
    Pool (1mil)- weak safety draft class, he is decent depth and knows the system

    FA
    WR: Bess (3mill)- nice slot guy, bumping J-Co back to #2 where hopefully he'll return to being his clutch self
    ILB: Bishop (6 mill)- way better than harris in my book, who is overrated by us fans
    OLB: Woodley (10mill)- Elite pass rusher who will make entire D better
    TE: Lewis (3mil)- Underrated TE who could be a real weapon in the passing game, and he blocks extremely well

    Draft
    1st: DE Cameron Jordan- Athletic, good pass rusher for a 3-4 DE, already plays in the scheme in college
    2nd: DE J.J. Watt- Starting to see a trend? Another tough, bull at DE with a relentless motor
    4th: NT Phil Taylor- Huge nose tackle prospect with good explosiveness, small school and has significant upside
    5th: S Eric Hagg- Nice safety with cover skills, hoping Lowery pans out but for now will assume he doesn't
    6th: RT Jason Pinkston- Falls purely because of knee problems, worth a flyer at this stage of the draft
    7th: K Alex Henery- Nice kicker from cold weather Nebraska, someone to get rid of Folk who has been a mess this year
    Last edited by TheMo; 12-27-2010 at 10:56 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Pace, Taylor, Thomas are just brutal in space. And what the hell happened to Harris?
    Sad to say but I think Harris has been wildly overrated by everyone here (myself included). He is a big linebacker and is pretty good north/south. He is pretty good on the blitz but that's not really the main role of ILB in a 3-4. East/west he is terribad at times, real slow to get to the ball. All of this is compounded by our big, but slow, outside linebackers. If teams run straight at us we can make some nice stops, but even that has been on and off lately.

  6. #26
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    A couple prospects I like for the middle rounds...

    Drake Nevis: Undersized for a 3-4 end, but this defense needs playmakers up front.
    Chimdi Chekwa: Could become a #2 and is good in run support, tackles well.
    Devier Posey: Good hands, speed, and route runner. Reminds me of Roddy White a little.
    Tyrod Taylor: Fantastic athlete who just makes things happen with the ball in his hands. Might be a replacement if Brad Smith leaves.

    And I'm still on the Graig Cooper bandwagon. He can be had at a big discount now after the knee injury but should be back to 100% soon.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Holmes can't shield the slant like Edwards, who surprisingly seems to come out with more throws in traffic. Although if he comes cheaper it'd be a tough call. Also Schotty being a fail of an OC might be masking Holmes a bit, while BE can use his physical play to overcome the schematic failures. I kinda copped out on making a true we can get these guys list, here let me actually write a realistic scenario of what we should get:

    Keep
    Edwards (5mill)- mentioned this above, but physical receiver who can also go deep
    Cromartie (5mil)- he's been a good #2 but nothing elite IMHO; depending on how the CS thinks Wilson is developing, or not developing, they might let Cro walk which would allow us to spend elsewhere
    Pool (1mil)- weak safety draft class, he is decent depth and knows the system

    FA
    WR: Bess (3mill)- nice slot guy, bumping J-Co back to #2 where hopefully he'll return to being his clutch self
    ILB: Bishop (6 mill)- way better than harris in my book, who is overrated by us fans
    OLB: Woodley (10mill)- Elite pass rusher who will make entire D better
    TE: Lewis (3mil)- Underrated TE who could be a real weapon in the passing game, and he blocks extremely well

    Draft
    1st: DE Cameron Jordan- Athletic, good pass rusher for a 3-4 DE, already plays in the scheme in college
    2nd: DE J.J. Watt- Starting to see a trend? Another tough, bull at DE with a relentless motor
    4th: NT Phil Taylor- Huge nose tackle prospect with good explosiveness, small school and has significant upside
    5th: S Eric Hagg- Nice safety with cover skills, hoping Lowery pans out but for now will assume he doesn't
    6th: RT Jason Pinkston- Falls purely because of knee problems, worth a flyer at this stage of the draft
    7th: K Alex Henery- Nice kicker from cold weather Nebraska, someone to get rid of Folk who has been a mess this year
    You think Edwards is going to sign for the same money at Nate Burlenson?

    You think Cro is going to sign for less than Bodden and Jabari Greer?

    Pool to take a salary cut to stay on the team?

    As for FA

    Bess signed a two year extension in October.

    I now it is a wish list but Woodley and Bishop?

    You think Watt is going to last until the late 50's? I don't think he will make it to the jets at 26 neither will Jordan both of who are better players than Jared Oldrick of who I was very surprised that he dropped that low.


    Henery will be picked in the 5th the latest.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    You think Edwards is going to sign for the same money at Nate Burlenson?

    You think Cro is going to sign for less than Bodden and Jabari Greer?

    Pool to take a salary cut to stay on the team?

    As for FA

    Bess signed a two year extension in October.

    I now it is a wish list but Woodley and Bishop?

    You think Watt is going to last until the late 50's? I don't think he will make it to the jets at 26 neither will Jordan both of who are better players than Jared Oldrick of who I was very surprised that he dropped that low.


    Henery will be picked in the 5th the latest.
    Thanks for the call on Bess, that is annoying . As for Cro it's not like he has been ridiculous this season, and there are some nice CBs on the market which will drive his value down. As for Bishop again there are some nice middle linebackers hitting the market include our own David Harris who in my mind is overrated, and he doesn't have OMGZ stats to warrant ogling in the FA market. Edwards is competing with Sidney Rice, Holmes, Jackson, Floyd and even Sims-Walker. Woodley is my pipedream but that's why it's a wishlist. As for Watt, guys fall all the time especially guys like him who won't rock the combine. Kickers basically are crap shoots, sometimes the best of them last a while cause face it not enough teams care about a kicker and till theirs blows game. All that being said I suck with contracts sooooo you could totally be right lol. This is why I have more trouble with mock offseasons.
    Last edited by TheMo; 12-28-2010 at 10:13 AM.

  9. #29
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    We should make it a priority to aquire some real good athletes for this defense. Sure, they also have to be good football players but in terms of speed and athletisism our defense is below average and it shows every Sunday. We are strong and big and can hold up in the middle but we get exposed in space and on the edges.

    I hate to say it but it looks like our best shot to get faster in the front seven is letting David Harris go. Scott and him are just too similar it seems. I really love Harris as a player but we'll see what happens. BT and Pace are also slow as hell and it would be nice to replace one of them or atleast get a better athlete to rotate with them. A real rangy safety would also help as we have played long stretches this season with basically one hybrid S/LB in Ihedigbo or Smith.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    We should make it a priority to aquire some real good athletes for this defense. Sure, they also have to be good football players but in terms of speed and athletisism our defense is below average and it shows every Sunday. We are strong and big and can hold up in the middle but we get exposed in space and on the edges.

    I hate to say it but it looks like our best shot to get faster in the front seven is letting David Harris go. Scott and him are just too similar it seems. I really love Harris as a player but we'll see what happens. BT and Pace are also slow as hell and it would be nice to replace one of them or atleast get a better athlete to rotate with them. A real rangy safety would also help as we have played long stretches this season with basically one hybrid S/LB in Ihedigbo or Smith.
    Cutting Pace would give us a harsh cap hit.

    BT on the other hand can be let go with zero dead money....and I look forward to him being released. He just doesnt have the speed anymore.

    Getting westerman a full game this week could go a long way to seeing if he can be a full time player for us next year.

  11. #31
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    Most early indictors have JJ Watt not getting out of the top 15 picks.
    IMO there is no way he gets to the Jets in round #1 let alone the second round.

    Draft
    1st: DE Cameron Jordan- Athletic, good pass rusher for a 3-4 DE, already plays in the scheme in college
    2nd: DE J.J. Watt- Starting to see a trend? Another tough, bull at DE with a relentless motor
    4th: NT Phil Taylor- Huge nose tackle prospect with good explosiveness, small school and has significant upside
    5th: S Eric Hagg- Nice safety with cover skills, hoping Lowery pans out but for now will assume he doesn't
    6th: RT Jason Pinkston- Falls purely because of knee problems, worth a flyer at this stage of the draft
    7th: K Alex Henery- Nice kicker from cold weather Nebraska, someone to get rid of Folk who has been a mess this year[/QUOTE]

  12. #32
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    Every good 3-4 defense has a big time individual edge rusher. Green Bay has Matthews, San Diego has Phillips, Miami has Wake, Dallas has Ware, Pittsburgh of course has two big time talents, then there is Terrell Suggs in Baltimore and a guy like Tamba Hali in KC. We dont have any OLB who is close to that caliber or who needs to accounted for like for those guys..

    Pace cant be that guy even though we hoped he could be. So its adjustment time. Get some new bodies and find guys who will provide constant pressure off the edge and not once in a quarter like our guys right now. Pressure off the edge will also free up the rushers inside and give us space for inside blitzes, which we dont use anymore as anything is clogged in the middle.
    Last edited by Flaming Mo; 12-28-2010 at 01:44 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Holmes can't shield the slant like Edwards, who surprisingly seems to come out with more throws in traffic. Although if he comes cheaper it'd be a tough call. Also Schotty being a fail of an OC might be masking Holmes a bit, while BE can use his physical play to overcome the schematic failures. I kinda copped out on making a true we can get these guys list, here let me actually write a realistic scenario of what we should get:

    Keep
    Edwards (5mill)- mentioned this above, but physical receiver who can also go deep
    Cromartie (5mil)- he's been a good #2 but nothing elite IMHO; depending on how the CS thinks Wilson is developing, or not developing, they might let Cro walk which would allow us to spend elsewhere
    Pool (1mil)- weak safety draft class, he is decent depth and knows the system

    FA
    WR: Bess (3mill)- nice slot guy, bumping J-Co back to #2 where hopefully he'll return to being his clutch self
    ILB: Bishop (6 mill)- way better than harris in my book, who is overrated by us fans
    OLB: Woodley (10mill)- Elite pass rusher who will make entire D better
    TE: Lewis (3mil)- Underrated TE who could be a real weapon in the passing game, and he blocks extremely well

    Draft
    1st: DE Cameron Jordan- Athletic, good pass rusher for a 3-4 DE, already plays in the scheme in college
    2nd: DE J.J. Watt- Starting to see a trend? Another tough, bull at DE with a relentless motor
    4th: NT Phil Taylor- Huge nose tackle prospect with good explosiveness, small school and has significant upside
    5th: S Eric Hagg- Nice safety with cover skills, hoping Lowery pans out but for now will assume he doesn't
    6th: RT Jason Pinkston- Falls purely because of knee problems, worth a flyer at this stage of the draft
    7th: K Alex Henery- Nice kicker from cold weather Nebraska, someone to get rid of Folk who has been a mess this year
    Edwards running one route better than Holmes isn't very convincing.

    People are making the Edwards over Holmes call strictly on these last few games- Holmes is the superior receiver in almost every aspect.

    And are people seriously dogging Holmes' drops? Do you guys not know Braylon Edwards?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gangGREENinsider View Post
    Edwards running one route better than Holmes isn't very convincing.

    People are making the Edwards over Holmes call strictly on these last few games- Holmes is the superior receiver in almost every aspect.

    And are people seriously dogging Holmes' drops? Do you guys not know Braylon Edwards?
    Yeah, I'm on the Holmes over Braylon wagon too.

    Hell, I'm all the way over on the other side it seems. I view Holmes and Harris as more valuable than Braylon and Cromartie. I'd rather lock those two up then see if we can maybe keep Cro, if not, then draft a CB within the first 2-3 rounds and maybe bring in a mid level FA.

    Harris is the one legit, young talent that we have in the front seven. Letting him go in favor of someone like Mauga or Westerman would be a boneheaded move.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Yeah, I'm on the Holmes over Braylon wagon too.

    Hell, I'm all the way over on the other side it seems. I view Holmes and Harris as more valuable than Braylon and Cromartie. I'd rather lock those two up then see if we can maybe keep Cro, if not, then draft a CB within the first 2-3 rounds and maybe bring in a mid level FA.

    Harris is the one legit, young talent that we have in the front seven. Letting him go in favor of someone like Mauga or Westerman would be a boneheaded move.
    The thing with holmes is that you can protect your self financially by paying hm a little more money per year but having a strict behavior clause. However that does not protect the team from missing him on game time if he gets suspended for the year.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    The thing with holmes is that you can protect your self financially by paying hm a little more money per year but having a strict behavior clause. However that does not protect the team from missing him on game time if he gets suspended for the year.
    Edwards isn't exactly a saint either.

  17. #37
    Holmes has been a disappointment to me. He has certainly made some game winning plays but he's dropped passes and has fumbled a lot. Edwards to me has been the better receiver this year overall. It's pretty bad when Braylon
    Edwards has been the teams most sure handed receiver the last part of this year.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Cutting Pace would give us a harsh cap hit.

    BT on the other hand can be let go with zero dead money....and I look forward to him being released. He just doesnt have the speed anymore.

    Getting westerman a full game this week could go a long way to seeing if he can be a full time player for us next year.
    It would be a hit in the order of 2 mill which isn't chump change but not deadly either. It would be more of a long term move since we'd save 8 mill in cap space, instead of 2, in 2012.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by gangGREENinsider View Post
    Edwards running one route better than Holmes isn't very convincing.

    People are making the Edwards over Holmes call strictly on these last few games- Holmes is the superior receiver in almost every aspect.

    And are people seriously dogging Holmes' drops? Do you guys not know Braylon Edwards?
    The one route was just an example. Holmes just hasn't impressed me this season. Yes he has made clutch plays at the end of games, though BE has had his share albeit maybe not at the very end. But if he has been invisible a lot of the other times. Based off of play, I'd say Edwards has been better this year.

  20. #40
    Also I just have not been a fan of Harris the past two years. I think he is very overrated and thus in my semi-pipedream scenario we pick up Bishop as an FA. If we were to downgrade my wonderful, but ambitious, Woodley-Bishop tandem I might go after Gocong who has been playing pretty well at ILB for the Browns and also Roth who has been a good pass rusher for them.

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