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Thread: Sen. Rand Paul: End All Foreign Aid

  1. #21
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    The greatest threat to our country is war, world wide instability that cuts off the movement of world wide trade and pandemic. Foreign aid is merely a tool in preventing all of these potential disasters. Seems like cheap money to me.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 01-31-2011 at 01:51 PM.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3945801]The greatest threat to our country is war[/quote]

    War from whom? Only a very select few countries could dare wage war against us, and we still maintain a meaningful deterrant in our nukes.

    Small regional wars have no risk to our security, apart from terrorism. Which Foreign aid does nothing to help.

    [QUOTE], world wide instability that cuts off the movement of world wide trade[/QUOTE]

    Disagree completely. Our reliance on cheap imported goods, and teh utter collapse of american Manufacturing, is a sign of how weak we've become in the global economy, where we are leach-like consumers, unable to even make a friggin TV on our own anymore. I'd support anything that would reduce our dependence on cheap chinnese products, and supports U.S. manufacture.

    And again, foreign aid doesn't guarantee imports, our thriving economy and desire to consume does, and it's not a good thing to support.

    [QUOTE] and pandemic.[/QUOTE]

    Foreign Aid does nothing for a true Pandemic. The only defense is a well-funded U.S. medical industry.

    [quote]Foreign aid is merely a tool in preventing all of these potential disasters. Seems like cheap money to me.[/QUOTE]

    Foreign Aid is almost universally a watse of taxpayer money, with no meaninful concrete gains coming from it.

    Billions of dollars spent for nothing, is never "cheap".

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3945801]The greatest threat to our country is war, world wide instability that cuts off the movement of world wide trade and pandemic. Foreign aid is merely a tool in preventing all of these potential disasters. Seems like cheap money to me.[/QUOTE]
    Would you borrow money from one friend whom you had to pay back, to give to another friend who could not pay YOU back? And furthermore, you do not have a job at the time?

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3945623]We could afford all that (and A LOT more) if we weren't literally shipping money to other countries. The total cost of TADF programs since their inception is less than what we spent in Iraq in 18 mos.

    We should spend more money on keeping people alive (our own citizens) than killing people. But...the human race just LOVES a good bomb and will sink trillions upon trillions into developing more insidious ways to kill people. Look at the ridiculously stupid "Cold War". Hey guys. Psst. You only need enough nuclear weapons to kill everyone on earth ONCE. You don't need to kill everyone 12 freaking times, you f*cking idiots. Once usually does it, I've found :rolleyes:

    But wait!! Nuclear weapons aren't cool enough. Let's spend a couple billion making weapons that makes peoples faces melt off of their skulls. That would be SO awesome!! And then we'll make another one that makes people vomit blood for 12 hours before they vomit up their internal organs!! Yeah!!



    Wait.


    You want spend 1/20th of my awesome bomb money to help that homeless guy eat? F*CK that!! Personal responsibility, homeless dude...I don't care WHAT war you served in. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, freak....[/QUOTE]

    PlumberKhan !

    Best post I've read in a while.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;3945901]Would you borrow money from one friend whom you had to pay back, to give to another friend who could not pay YOU back? And furthermore, you do not have a job at the time?[/QUOTE]

    A more realistic analogy.

    I have a friend with Aids and polio is comming back in his home town and other deseases which can be spread. He has no food or clean water. His kids are routinely killed in earthquakes and other natural disaster. I have a printing press in my basement and can issue bonds with a tripple A rating with an almost unlimited supply of buyers. I can help my friend and make the world a better place for his and my children and make a friend who might support me against another enemy unknown and unforseen.

    In a heartbeat I would do it. Especially if it was under 1% of my total net worth.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 01-31-2011 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;3945362]Just to set where I'm coming from on this. - I consider myself a rational conservative. Non religious, Pro Free Market, could care less about gay rights or what people do in their bedrooms, believe the constitution says what it means and means what it says, and I think we have gone overboard on PC crap.

    Some of the "tea party" stuff I think is a bit much, some I agree with...and I can't stand either Nancy Pelosi OR Sarah Palin.

    All that being said, I agree with Paul on this one 100%. We have bridges collapsing and roads in disrepair...we have cities laying off Cops and FIrefighters, we have a population of Mentally Ill people roaming the streets (you call them "homeless"), and we're giving BILLIONS to places and nations around the world that celebrate our deaths and our failures.

    We pay BILLIONS to places like Egypt and Jordan in BRIBE MONEY to keep them from attacking Israel, and on the other hand we give BILLIONS to Israel to equip and arm them. I thought the Israelis were the tough resilient people who fought off the entire Arab World with 50 year old tanks and a bunch of vintage aircraft. Why do they need OUR money?

    We give BILLIONS in aid to that cesspool of corruption and evil that is Africa. We dump BILLIONS into the cesspool of corruption that is Pakistan, our "ally" in the war on Terror.

    BILLIONS in dollars BORROWED from China. Are you frakkin' kidding me?

    The war in Iraq is over. We won. Time to leave. The war in Afganistan is pointless. Drug cartels took the place of the Taliban. YOu can give the people of that backward region the opportunity for freedom and enlightenment, but if the goatherders would prefer to live in stone age conditions betwee warring factions while subjugating their women and stoning "infidels", well, good for them. Time to go.

    Meanwhile, there is a nation a few hundred nautical miles away from our shores that tis teetering on the brink, and without an infusion of aid and order, the ENTIRE population of Haiti will be living in South Florida within the next 5 years.

    Time to say no more. Keep the money home, bring the guys home, rest, reorganize, and reequip our Armed Forces, and invest in ourselves.

    And while we're at it, lets cut entitlements, go back o the gold standard, and liquidate our "Debt" to China. We'll call it even for bailing them out in the 1940s.[/QUOTE]

    Dude great post.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;3945908]PlumberKhan !

    Best post I've read in a while.[/QUOTE]

    Liberal love affair at it's height. ;)

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3945952]A more realistic analogy.

    I have a friend with Aids and polio is comming back in his home town and other deseases which can be spread. He has no food or clean water. His kids are routinely killed in earthquakes and other natural disaster. I have a printing press in my basement and can issue bonds with a tripple A rating with an almost unlimited supply of buyers. I can help my friend and make the world a better place for his and my children and make a friend who might support me against another enemy unknown and unforseen.

    In a heartbeat I would do it. Especially if it was under 1% of my total net worth.[/QUOTE]

    ...at the same time we are cutting aid (earmarks) to Americans?
    Cut ALL the WELFARE to the foreigners. America First!!!!!!!

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;3946055]...at the same time we are cutting aid (earmarks) to Americans?
    Cut ALL the WELFARE to the foreigners. America First!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

    American citizens are among the most pampered well taken care of societies in the world. Clean water, free education, a social safety net that gives people a guaranteed lifestyle that some of the places we help can only dream of.

    You want to turn your back on the people of Haiti, the aids victims in Africa for a USA chant? Give me a break. America first means more money to Unions and Bankers. Most of the outragous foreign aid comes back to us in purchased weapons systems that employs Union workers. It's chicken **** to make you feel good. Politics as usual.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 01-31-2011 at 06:49 PM.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3946099]American citizens are among the most pampered well taken care of societies in the world.[/quote]

    And we, as a people, work very hard for what we have.

    [QUOTE]Clean water, free education, a social safety net that gives people a guaranteed lifestyle that some of the places we help can only dream of.[/QUOTE]

    All of which is paid for by the fruits of our labor.

    [quote]You want to turn your back on the people of Haiti, the aids victims in Africa[/QUOTE]

    As long as there is an American who suffers and needs, yes. Who are you to tell your fellow citizens "sorry, even though you're one of us, you're unimportant and can sod off and die....we need to take American money, and spend it on Africans who can't help but kill each other in endless primitive trabal slaughter, and Haitians who are perhaps the most failstate in the history of failstates. Sorry, butter luck in the next life, we liberals need to feel better about ourselves, and this is it."

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3946104]And we, as a people, work very hard for what we have.



    All of which is paid for by the fruits of our labor.



    As long as there is an American who suffers and needs, yes. Who are you to tell your fellow citizens "sorry, even though you're one of us, you're unimportant and can sod off and die....we need to take American money, and spend it on Africans who can't help but [B]kill each other in endless primitive trabal slaughter[/B], and Haitians who are perhaps the most failstate in the history of failstates. Sorry, butter luck in the next life, we liberals need to feel better about ourselves, and this is it."[/QUOTE]

    There is NO amount of money that will end ALL of American suffering.... some work harder than others and some don't work. We absolutely need to help those who TRULY need help.

    We as a country give disabilty social security and "disability" pensions out like it's candy. I'm sure you know men in their 40's with "off the books" jobs collecting disability, I have met MANY. That said, I have no answer but we already have entitlements to a degree never imagined. We also have neighborhood where they are killing each other and we spend plenty there.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3945714]Sorry for this....

    ...but thats not the theory behind the U.S. buildup at all, in any form.

    The U.S. buildup, both of numbers of nukes, and technology of War, was an economic war, pure and simple. It forced the Soviet Union to either pony up, and drop back in the contest. The refused to drop back, and it utterly bankrupted them and their Communist (lol) system.

    We never had 10000 (or howevermany) nukes because some might fail. We had 10000 nukes because the Soviets couldn't really afford 10000 nukes.[/QUOTE]

    I'm not a nuclear arms expert, but I ~did~ hang out at JN last night!

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3946099]American citizens are among the most pampered well taken care of societies in the world. Clean water, free education, a social safety net that gives people a guaranteed lifestyle that some of the places we help can only dream of.

    You want to turn your back on the people of Haiti, the aids victims in Africa for a USA chant? Give me a break. America first means more money to Unions and Bankers. Most of the outragous foreign aid comes back to us in purchased weapons systems that employs Union workers. It's chicken **** to make you feel good. Politics as usual.[/QUOTE]
    So because someone else was born in another nation and not the USA, we have to layoff teachers in NYC so that the foreign entity can have it better?

    That is something that I question. Furthermore, I think that it is unreasonable for the taxpayers here to suffer so that other less fortunate nations can prosper.

    We used to be the envy of the world when we took care of ourselves. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Our education system is failing, but we need to continue to give to other nations so that they can prosper?

    We just cannot afford it....

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;3946254]So because someone else was born in another nation and not the USA, we have to layoff teachers in NYC so that the foreign entity can have it better?

    That is something that I question. Furthermore, I think that it is unreasonable for the taxpayers here to suffer so that other less fortunate nations can prosper.

    We used to be the envy of the world when we took care of ourselves. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Our education system is failing, but we need to continue to give to other nations so that they can prosper?

    We just cannot afford it....[/QUOTE]

    We are laying off teachers in NYC because NYC and State have given out contracts to public employees that is bankrupting NYC and NY State and in a competitive tax environment the City and State can no longer tax more without lossing more wage earners to low tax states.

    I don't really see this as a problem with foreign aid, I see it as a large wealthy metropolitian city mismanaging it's finances.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3946104]And we, as a people, work very hard for what we have.



    All of which is paid for by the fruits of our labor.



    As long as there is an American who suffers and needs, yes. Who are you to tell your fellow citizens "sorry, even though you're one of us, you're unimportant and can sod off and die....we need to take American money, and spend it on Africans who can't help but kill each other in endless primitive trabal slaughter, and Haitians who are perhaps the most failstate in the history of failstates. Sorry, butter luck in the next life, we liberals need to feel better about ourselves, and this is it."[/QUOTE]

    Who am I? Just like you I'm a taxpayer and voter and I'm represented in Congress and by the President just like you and everyone else in this country. I assume I have relatively equal representation with almost everyone on this board?

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3945714]Sorry for this....

    ...but thats not the theory behind the U.S. buildup at all, in any form.

    The U.S. buildup, both of numbers of nukes, and technology of War, was an economic war, pure and simple. It forced the Soviet Union to either pony up, and drop back in the contest. The refused to drop back, and it utterly bankrupted them and their Communist (lol) system.

    We never had 10000 (or howevermany) nukes because some might fail. We had 10000 nukes because the Soviets couldn't really afford 10000 nukes.[/QUOTE]

    Where'd you get that from? That doesn't make any sense since the Warsaw Pact's tank totals always outnumbered NATO by 3-1 (which is probably more costly to maintain than missiles). You could be right if you looked at all types of forces, including space-based weapons, but not nukes only. I'm basing my post on the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction.

    So basically, I'm right and you are not so right. :D
    Last edited by quantum; 02-01-2011 at 10:58 AM.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=quantum;3946729]I'm basing my post on the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction. [/QUOTE]

    My favorite doctrine :D

    How do we keep the world safe from the Red Menace? By making sure that if the sh*t hits the fan, no one gets out alive. Our grandparents weren't that bright. How so?

    1960's Atomic Bomb Drill (in school): Ok kids...the Soviets just dropped a bomb. Everyone hide under their desks! :rolleyes:




    I jest, I jest...

    Different world back then. Russians were scary. Red Dawn and stuff...

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=quantum;3946729]Mutually Assured Destruction.[/QUOTE]

    Hello Me, meet the real Me....

    ;)
    Last edited by Sourceworx; 02-01-2011 at 11:10 AM.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;3946720]We are laying off teachers in NYC because NYC and State have given out contracts to public employees that is bankrupting NYC and NY State and in a competitive tax environment the City and State can no longer tax more without lossing more wage earners to low tax states.

    I don't really see this as a problem with foreign aid, I see it as a large wealthy metropolitian city mismanaging it's finances.[/QUOTE]
    Your argument is weak. These are STILL Americans and American Taxpayer dollars. When you can refute that, come back to me.

    [QUOTE]we have to borrow the money from China to send it to someone else. We just can't do it anymore. The debt is all consuming and it threatens our well being as a country.[/QUOTE]

    These other nations can go to China and get the money themselves

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;3946824]Your argument is weak. These are STILL Americans and American Taxpayer dollars. When you can refute that, come back to me.



    These other nations can go to China and get the money themselves[/QUOTE]

    Part of the function of our federal government is foreign policy. Foreign aid is clearly part of that policy. Certainly a key reason to vote for the President and Congress is their position on foreign policy. Saying American taxpayer dollars are still American means little since our foreign policy and foreign aid is constructed by American elected officials who represent both American taxpayers and none taxpayers.

    I would guess that Foreign aid represents a pittance compared to our military operations around the globe and is probably doing more positive for American foreign policy at fractions of the cost.

    Most countries including China do give foreign aid.

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