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Thread: RIP Obamacare's individual "mandate"

  1. #1

    RIP Obamacare's individual "mandate"

    Good luck in 2012, B Hussein....your 2 major accomplishments, the stimulus & forcing Obamacare on a public that didn't want it...are both huge FAILS



    Eventually the choice for red-state Democrats will be: Defend Obamacare as is or vote to repeal it. In the realm of electoral politics this is a "heads I win, tails you lose" proposition for the Republicans.


    "We're looking at everything humanly possible. I've always had a concern and a problem with the mandate, that we were forcing it, basically saying by the law of the land you have to buy the product," Sen. Joe Manchin, D-WV, told ABC News today. "But on the other hand, I know that's been the linchpin. I'm looking for flexibility any way I can."

    Manchin is one of the moderate Democrats trying to figure out how to repeal the individual mandate. While talks are still in the early stages, Manchin hopes the push will take shape sooner rather than later.

    Joining him in these efforts could be a handful of other Democrats who are also up for reelection in 2012: Nebraska's Ben Nelson, Missouri's Claire McCaskill, and Montana's Jon Tester.

  2. #2
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    Well, it took Democrats to fix something...because Republicans just stand there and yell "NO" like a 2 year old and masturbate to flags...

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Tucker134;3955274]Good luck in 2012, B Hussein....your 2 major accomplishments, the stimulus & forcing Obamacare on a public that didn't want it...are both huge FAILS



    Eventually the choice for red-state Democrats will be: Defend Obamacare as is or vote to repeal it. In the realm of electoral politics this is a "heads I win, tails you lose" proposition for the Republicans.


    "We're looking at everything humanly possible. I've always had a concern and a problem with the mandate, that we were forcing it, basically saying by the law of the land you have to buy the product," Sen. Joe Manchin, D-WV, told ABC News today. "But on the other hand, I know that's been the linchpin. I'm looking for flexibility any way I can."

    Manchin is one of the moderate Democrats trying to figure out how to repeal the individual mandate. While talks are still in the early stages, Manchin hopes the push will take shape sooner rather than later.

    Joining him in these efforts could be a handful of other Democrats who are also up for reelection in 2012: Nebraska's Ben Nelson, Missouri's Claire McCaskill, and Montana's Jon Tester.[/QUOTE]

    :zzz::zzz::zzz::yes:

    [url]http://www.conservatives4congress.com/2011/02/obamacare-support-melting-away.html[/url]

  4. #4
    the thread title is what you hope happens. not what's actually happening.

  5. #5
    the GOP can campaign but actually legislating this healthcare reform away won't happen.

    from politico

    [quote]
    Insurance reality hits House GOP
    By: Marin Cogan
    February 9, 2011 04:37 AM EST

    Ask any House Republican about repealing President Barack Obama’s health care law, and you’ll get the same fiery, self-assured talking points about tearing down what Speaker John Boehner has called a “monstrosity.”

    But talk to some of the 16 freshman lawmakers who have declined their government health benefits, and you’ll hear a different side of the story — about tough out-of-pocket expenses, pre-existing conditions and support for health reforms that would help those who struggle with their coverage. As they venture into the free market for health insurance, these lawmakers — many of whom swept into office fueled by tea party anger over the health care law — are facing monthly premiums of $1,200 and fears of double-digit rate hikes.

    The experience has caused some of them to think harder about the “replace” part of the “repeal and replace” mantra the GOP has adopted regarding the health care law.

    “I have a niece who has pre-existing conditions, and I worry about her if she was ever to lose her job,” said Florida Rep. Richard Nugent, one of the freshman lawmakers who declined federal health insurance benefits.

    Every single House Republican voted to repeal the health care law last month.

    “I can simply, honestly say that this is going to impact my wife and I to a fairly serious degree, like it would any average American out there,” said first-time Rep. Joe Walsh of Illinois.

    Walsh’s wife has a pre-existing condition and will need a procedure in the coming months, but because he declined federal benefits, they’re paying for it out of pocket. Meanwhile, Walsh is contributing to a health savings account to cover his expenses.

    “It’s a cost we will feel, a cost I will have to pick up. I won’t turn down benefits because I have something to fall back on or because I’m independently wealthy,” he said.

    Maryland Rep. Andy Harris caused an uproar during freshman orientation when he demanded to know how long it would take for his federal health insurance policy to kick in. Since then, the question of whether lawmakers who ran against the health law should accept their own government benefits has become a favorite game of partisan ping-pong in Washington. Democrats are demanding that the lawmakers who voted to deny reform benefits to the American public turn down their own federal employee health insurance, and Republicans have argued that accepting benefits from the government is not inconsistent with GOP support for employer-based coverage.

    Roughly 85 percent of federal employees get insurance benefits from the Federal Employees Health Benefits program, according to a report by the Congressional Research Service. Among the freshman Republican class, the number opting out is only slightly higher: About 18 percent are on record as having denied insurance coverage. Most — including Reps. Kristi Noem of South Dakota, Michael Grimm of New York and Renee Ellmers of North Carolina — are accepting the benefit plans provided to federal employees. Ellmers took some heat from local North Carolina media for telling a radio show that “it costs a lot of money to be here in Congress” as a way of justifying her health coverage.

    The current FEHB program allows policyholders to pick and choose from a variety of coverage options. In that way, their experience with insurance policies is akin to the state-based insurance exchanges that will allow citizens to shop around for their policies beginning in 2014.

    The freshman members who declined insurance have had to find other ways to cover their health needs.

    Louisiana Rep. Jeff Landry is enrolled in an individual health savings account. New York Rep. Nan Hayworth, an ophthalmologist, gets employer-based coverage through her husband, who is a doctor. Rep. Cory Gardner of Colorado purchases his plan through an insurer in his home state.

    Nugent, a former sheriff, doesn’t receive federal employee benefits, choosing instead to purchase a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan for retired county employees, which he said costs about $1,200 a month for his family. Still, he said, his niece’s experience has contributed to his support for ending coverage bans on pre-existing conditions. “One of the key components with the ‘replace’ [bill] was to make sure we take care of people who have pre-existing conditions,” he said.

    As the owner of an automobile dealership with about 150 employees, Rep. Scott Rigell, a freshman from Virginia, said he’s had firsthand experience with the rising costs of insurance for business owners.

    “I’ve never disputed that true reform is needed,” Rigell said. “Every year we brace ourselves for the renewal — is it going to be 18 percent or 25 percent or 30 percent [more expensive]? It’s going to well exceed first the overall level of inflation and also going to well exceed any ability on our part to raise our prices by anything approaching that. So it is terribly burdensome,” he added.

    “Right now, there are 14 some million Americans and growing who are out there in the individual market who have a much tougher battle,” said Walsh, who has an individual health savings account.

    “I suppose you could say that I’m dealing with this as any average American would. This will financially impact us,” said Walsh.

    Now that Republicans have made good on their pledge to repeal the health care law, some of them are already feeling pressure to offer policy solutions that would address the problems in the insurance market — ones that the new members, having declined benefits, should have some experience with.

    One new Republican House member, Rep. Sean Duffy of Wisconsin, recently told a local TV program that he needed a commitment from GOP leaders that they’d offer their own health care proposals before he voted to repeal the Democrats’ bill.

    “My position during the campaign and today is, let’s reform the reform or repeal and replace. And so, I wasn’t going vote for it,” Duffy said. “But I went and spoke to the leadership, and I got a commitment that we were going to bring forward our ideas on this replacement bill.”

    Regardless of lawmakers’ reasons for accepting or declining federal health benefits, Gardner said the decision shouldn’t be used for political potshots.

    “Our decision was not based on efforts by the Democrats to try to say that health insurance benefits and the health care bill are one and the same,” said Gardner. “Those complaints are completely misdirected. That’s apples and oranges. Our choice was simply made on what works for our family.”[/quote]

  6. #6
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    I probably missed this whole conversation months ago, but wasn't the individual mandate introduced by Repub's as an acceptable option to a single-payer system? I think Warfish has been consistent with his Libertarian views, so I get why he and a few others don't want this, but are all Repubs now against this? This pure partisanship is so illogical, it's ridiculous. You fight for a decade for something, then when the other side is in power and comes to support it, you're 1000% against it? I just don't get it, or how those who think this way, on both sides, can say they want what's best for the country or consider themselves 'patriotic'.
    Last edited by isired; 02-09-2011 at 02:06 PM.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=isired;3955373]I probably missed this whole conversation months ago, but wasn't the individual mandate introduced by Repub's as an acceptable option to a single-payer system? I think Warfish has been consistent with his Libertarian views, so I get why he and a few others don't want this, but are all Repubs now against this? This pure partisanship is so illogical, it's ridiculous. You fight for a decade for something, then when the other side is in power and comes to support it, you're 1000% against it? I just don't get it, or how those who think this way, on both sides, can say they want what's best for the country or consider themselves 'patriotic'.[/QUOTE]

    Obamacare and the 1993 Republican alternative to Hillarycare are essentially the same exact thing. What is now a socialist and radical health care plan proposed by Obama was a perfectly acceptable and moderate Republican health care plan about 15 years ago.

    Politics, gotta love it.

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3955289]Well, it took Democrats to fix something...because Republicans just stand there and yell "NO" like a 2 year old and masturbate to flags...[/QUOTE]

    yeh- they fixed it alright...sort of like filling a car's empty gas tank with water...lmao

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3955434]yeh- they fixed it alright...sort of like filling a car's empty gas tank with water...lmao[/QUOTE]

    From 2001 to 2009 the powerful GOP pretended there weren't any problems.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=cr726;3955446]From 2001 to 2009 the powerful GOP pretended there weren't any problems.[/QUOTE]

    meanwhile the almighty dims came to power in '06 and completely fuked up a bad situation they said couldn't get worse- then again that's been the mo (economy, afgahnistan, foreign policy, etc) since 1/09...:yes:

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3955464]meanwhile the almighty dims came to power in '06 and completely fuked up a bad situation they said couldn't get worse- then again that's been the mo (economy, afgahnistan, foreign policy, etc) since 1/09...:yes:[/QUOTE]

    I know it's been horrible, the stock market is in the sh@tter and the world is going to end. :rolleyes:

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=cr726;3955468]I know it's been horrible, the stock market is in the sh@tter and the world is going to end. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    yep....the summer of recovery has continued through the winter :thumbup:

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3955289]Well, it took Democrats to fix something...because Republicans just stand there and yell "NO" like a 2 year old and masturbate to flags...[/QUOTE]

    Out of curiosity, what have Democrats "fixed" exactly?

    Pretty much all the things Democrats passed laws to fix still exist. From FD to LBJ to BHO, it's generally the same story "we'll pass this, give the Government more power, so as to fix povery, education, healthcare, etc"

    The problem doesn't get fixed.

    The Democrats blame everything but their own policies.

    Then the Democrats say "now we'll pass THIS, give the Government more power, so as to fix povery, education, healthcare, etc".

    Thats not fixing the problem. Thats growing the Government.

    There is a meaningful difference. The best action is sometimes inaction (by Govt.)

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3955564]Out of curiosity, what have Democrats "fixed" exactly?

    Pretty much all the things Democrats passed laws to fix still exist. From FD to LBJ to BHO, it's generally the same story "we'll pass this, give the Government more power, so as to fix povery, education, healthcare, etc"

    The problem doesn't get fixed.

    The Democrats blame everything but their own policies.

    Then the Democrats say "now we'll pass THIS, give the Government more power, so as to fix povery, education, healthcare, etc".

    Thats not fixing the problem. Thats growing the Government.

    There is a meaningful difference. The best action is sometimes inaction (by Govt.)[/QUOTE]

    Civil Rights. Social Security. Medicaid. Medicare.

    Presided over both world wars.

    That's just off the top of my head.

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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;3955587]Civil Rights.[/quote]

    Civil Rights and Racial Equallity have been fixed? By Dems?

    I think there are many (mostly blacks and Dems) who would disagree that civil rights and racial equallity have been fixed.

    [QUOTE]Social Security.[/QUOTE]

    Bankrupt and unsustainable in it's current form.

    [QUOTE]Medicaid. Medicare.[/QUOTE]

    If they had fixed anything at all, we wouldn't be talking about Obamacare, now would we?

    [QUOTE]Presided over both world wars.[/QUOTE]

    Oh, the depths one could plumb there if we wished. Lets just say Wilson was a spineless utopian whose failings post-war were directly complicit in the rise of Naziism in Germany and all that came after it, and FDR....I won't even start on Mr. U.S. Concentration Camp Socialist, and how he betrayed allies, broke treaties, betrayed friends, crushed civil rights, grew government power, knew all along abour Nazi warcrimes and the Holocaust and did nothing, and forgave Nazi murders and snuck them into the US after the War. FDR makes Bush look like a schoolkid in the warcrimes he could be accused of, right up to and including knowing about Japans intentions to attack before it happened. That topic could go on forever......

    [quote]That's just off the top of my head.[/QUOTE]

    No mention of the core Democrat issue, poverty, utterly untouched by 100 years of Demcoart legislation, you claim (lolingly) that civil rights was fixed by Democrats (lol) and claim a bankrupt Social Security system that had taken thousands from em I'll never see again, and Medicare/Medicaid, both fraudfilled failures that apparently failed so bad Obama all but scrapped them in Obamacare were "successes".

    Maybe you try for something a little deeper in your head.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=parafly;3955419]Obamacare and the 1993 Republican alternative to Hillarycare are essentially the same exact thing. What is now a socialist and radical health care plan proposed by Obama was a perfectly acceptable and moderate Republican health care plan about 15 years ago.

    Politics, gotta love it.[/QUOTE]

    Start of a good debate here before the thread went off into the usual directions.

    So, how true is this? how similar is Obamacare to the 1993 Republican alternative to Hillarycare?

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    lol...

    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;3955587]Civil Rights. Social Security. Medicaid. Medicare.

    Presided over both world wars.

    That's just off the top of my head.[/QUOTE]

    the dems fixed civil rights??? who voted for the passage of the civil rights bill?? who was dead set against it???

    SS? Medicaid? Medicare?? those are "fixed"??

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3955601]Civil Rights and Racial Equallity have been fixed? By Dems?

    I think there are many (mostly blacks and Dems) who would disagree that civil rights and racial equallity have been fixed.[/QUOTE]

    So the Democrats get no credit for the Civil Rights Act?


    [QUOTE]Bankrupt and unsustainable in it's current form.
    [/QUOTE]

    ...80 years later, it needs to be reformed - but kept, right?

    [QUOTE]If they had fixed anything at all, we wouldn't be talking about Obamacare, now would we?
    [/QUOTE]

    Those programs do not cover all of Americans. That's the debate now.

    No room for progress?

    [QUOTE]Oh, the depths one could plumb there if we wished. Lets just say Wilson was a spineless utopian whose failings post-war were directly complicit in the rise of Naziism in Germany and all that came after it, and FDR....I won't even start on Mr. U.S. Concentration Camp Socialist, and how he betrayed allies, broke treaties, betrayed friends, crushed civil rights, grew government power, knew all along abour Nazi warcrimes and the Holocaust and did nothing, and forgave Nazi murders and snuck them into the US after the War. FDR makes Bush look like a schoolkid in the warcrimes he could be accused of, right up to and including knowing about Japans intentions to attack before it happened. That topic could go on forever......
    [/QUOTE]

    I agree on Wilson, but it was the Republicans who blocked the League of Nations - his "post war failings".

    Lets not forget which party was actually saying "hey, these Germans are really becoming a problem, we should do something".

    But it was FDR's fault because he didn't call for war sooner? Which party was calling to not get involved, Warfish?

    The internment camp for the Japanese was despicable... but can you really, honestly compare it to Nazi concentration camps? - and btw if your answer is yes, how are you not part of the America "haters" you rail against regularly!? :P

    You know Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus?

    But hey who cares that in the two most important wars of the 20th century, it was a liberal democrat that was Commander in Chief - and led us to victory.

    [QUOTE]No mention of the core Democrat issue, poverty, utterly untouched by 100 years of Demcoart legislation, you claim (lolingly) that civil rights was fixed by Democrats (lol) and claim a bankrupt Social Security system that had taken thousands from em I'll never see again, and Medicare/Medicaid, both fraudfilled failures that apparently failed so bad Obama all but scrapped them in Obamacare were "successes"[/QUOTE].

    I love the standards you setup in arguments. Completely black and white.

    Either something is "fixed", i.e. perfect, or it is a failure.

    There is no room for good legislation that's not perfect. There is no room for progress, if it doesn't "fix" everything.

    Because there is still racism, the Civil Rights Act was a failure?



    [QUOTE]Maybe you try for something a little deeper in your head.[/QUOTE]

    Excellent writing ^
    Last edited by SafetyBlitz; 02-09-2011 at 05:45 PM.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3955473]yep....the summer of recovery has continued through the winter :thumbup:[/QUOTE]

    The country is in bad shape because of Obamacare? Explain to me how poorly Wall Street has been doing since Obama has been in office.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=cr726;3955666]The country is in bad shape because of Obamacare? Explain to me how poorly Wall Street has been doing since Obama has been in office.[/QUOTE]

    lol...where did i say the country was in bad shape solely because of obamacare?? [I][SIZE="1"]oh right- i didn't...[/SIZE][/I]

    and now you look to Wall Street as a barometer as to how the "country" is doing??? that's rich.....:yes:

    btw- why don't you explain how "Wall Street" is doing versus the economy in general....this should be fun...

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