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Thread: How I Know Cons are also Full of Party-First Crap

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    How I Know Cons are also Full of Party-First Crap

    All it takes is listening to them discuss the various Arab uprising to see how utterly adrift their viewpoints actually are. They have no idea what they want to see happen, but they sure know they blame Obama for it, no matter what choice he makes.

    Egypt? Some Cons wanted heavy direct involvement, then some Cons realized the uprising might be "Islamists" and wanted us to back Mubarik, then they wanted us to toss Mubarik, but denounce the uprising, then they wanted us to support the uprising, but tell the uprising they better not be Islamists, then......all the while decrying Obama as not leading on the issue, as if a Civil Uprising within Egypt is something we (the US) should somehow be leading on, as opposed to say, the Egyptians.

    Libya and Bahrain, the same story. Cons are up in arms over Obama not leading, not "leading the free world" accoriding to one local Con talk host, yet they have no idea it seems what the actually want us to do, and their own various viewpoints hit almost every direction on the compass, from "invade and occupy Libya and bring them Freedom" all the way to "do nothing, but do it as a leader". Many want us involved, as if a third shooting war (or even the not-as-simple-as-it-sounds No Fly Zone idea) is something we need whilst fighting two wars, one of which is going not so well for us.

    Some decry that we've not armed the Libyan Rebels.....rebels, it should be noted, most Cons have no idea about. For all they (we) know, these Rebels could be the next AQ, but since Obama isn't arming them, arming them is thr right choice. But be assured, if we armed them, the same Cons would be decrying it as Obama helping out Islamists.

    Here is the deal. Egypt, Libya, Bahrain, they are all undergoing what is in effect a long overdue Civil War, of the people (most of whom are Arab and Islamic) rising up against their Tyrant Political Leaders (also Arab and also Islamic). Much of teh differences in this region are driven by this, and if not this, then by "Shiitie vs. Suni", none of which involves us.

    These are not, in fact, issues where the US belongs at the forefront. While we might have "interests" in some of these nations, that does not give us any right to determine for those Nations what the right course is, or worse, to start playing "arm the one we like today", a gameplan that has been a terrible failure for US Foreign Policy for over a century now, and directly helped lead us to our current War against Terrorism.

    Now is the time to shelve the massive US Ego, the idea that somehow the World can;t spin without us telling it to and how, and let these Nations and their people figure out their own **** for once. We can deal with whomever and whatever comes out just fine, based on our own needs and interests, but it isn't our job to kill American Kids for either side of these Civil Wars.

    Worse, decrying the President (whom we all know I'm no fan of) for doing what is in-effect the only right choice for us (not get involved, let the UN lead, and fail, saving American Lives and showcasing how fail the UN is), when you and your side cannot formulate a coherant opinion on what you want done, and when you cannot even decide which side of the various players is the "good side" over there, is laughable and counterproductive. When one can literally listen to a Hannity and his ilk, and hear him in the same sentence take both sides of the issue (intervene for freedom, but do nothing because their islamists) and then hear him bash Obama for whichever one we do, from both sides of teh debate, I mean really. Come on. Give it a rest.

    One dead American in Libya, or Egypt or Bahrain is one too many. Give it a rest, on this one Obama is in the right (like he is with keeping Gitmo Open and holding millitary trials for terrorists, and keeping the Patriot Act active, etc). This isn't the US's fight, it isn't our problem, and bashing us because we're not roaring to get involved in Wars #3, #4 and #5, all of which will paint us as killing yet more Arabs for our own interests, is a silly and foolish position to try and take.

    Frankly, if you think the Libyan cause of freedom is so valid, get off your own ass, and go help them fight yourself if you value it so highly.
    Last edited by Warfish; 03-17-2011 at 12:05 PM.

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    Couldn't of said it better myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Now is the time to shelve the massive US Ego, the idea that somehow the World can;t spin without us telling it to and how, and let these Nations and their people figure out their own **** for once. We can deal with whomever and whatever comes out just fine, based on our own needs and interests, but it isn't our job to kill American Kids for either side of these Civil Wars.
    Abso-f*cking-lutely.

    Obama's made plenty of mistakes that people can criticize him for, but his handling of the Middle East isn't one of them. He's couldn't be handling that situation any better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sourceworx View Post
    He's couldn't be handling that situation any better.
    No, he could be handling it better. He might be first to agree. There's always a better way but it just isn't clear what that is now and will perhaps be clearer in hindsight. One thing is also for certain, he could definitely be handling it worse, that is for sure.

    It sucks seeing how Q might stay in power. It sucks to hear his son, with his arrogance, emerge as what may be another generation of dictatorship, and seemingly competant at that. It would be easier if he appeared to be a dufus destined to fail (like the son seems to be in N. Korea).

    What to do, what to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by majormajor42 View Post
    It sucks to hear his son, with his arrogance, emerge as what may be another generation of dictatorship...
    An empire of sand dunes.

    Sounds exciting



    Like cats fighting over a litterbox....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    All it takes is listening to them discuss the various Arab uprising to see how utterly adrift their viewpoints actually are. They have no idea what they want to see happen, but they sure know they blame Obama for it, no matter what choice he makes.

    Egypt? Some Cons wanted heavy direct involvement, then some Cons realized the uprising might be "Islamists" and wanted us to back Mubarik, then they wanted us to toss Mubarik, but denounce the uprising, then they wanted us to support the uprising, but tell the uprising they better not be Islamists, then......all the while decrying Obama as not leading on the issue, as if a Civil Uprising within Egypt is something we (the US) should somehow be leading on, as opposed to say, the Egyptians.

    Libya and Bahrain, the same story. Cons are up in arms over Obama not leading, not "leading the free world" accoriding to one local Con talk host, yet they have no idea it seems what the actually want us to do, and their own various viewpoints hit almost every direction on the compass, from "invade and occupy Libya and bring them Freedom" all the way to "do nothing, but do it as a leader". Many want us involved, as if a third shooting war (or even the not-as-simple-as-it-sounds No Fly Zone idea) is something we need whilst fighting two wars, one of which is going not so well for us.

    Some decry that we've not armed the Libyan Rebels.....rebels, it should be noted, most Cons have no idea about. For all they (we) know, these Rebels could be the next AQ, but since Obama isn't arming them, arming them is thr right choice. But be assured, if we armed them, the same Cons would be decrying it as Obama helping out Islamists.

    Here is the deal. Egypt, Libya, Bahrain, they are all undergoing what is in effect a long overdue Civil War, of the people (most of whom are Arab and Islamic) rising up against their Tyrant Political Leaders (also Arab and also Islamic). Much of teh differences in this region are driven by this, and if not this, then by "Shiitie vs. Suni", none of which involves us.

    These are not, in fact, issues where the US belongs at the forefront. While we might have "interests" in some of these nations, that does not give us any right to determine for those Nations what the right course is, or worse, to start playing "arm the one we like today", a gameplan that has been a terrible failure for US Foreign Policy for over a century now, and directly helped lead us to our current War against Terrorism.

    Now is the time to shelve the massive US Ego, the idea that somehow the World can;t spin without us telling it to and how, and let these Nations and their people figure out their own **** for once. We can deal with whomever and whatever comes out just fine, based on our own needs and interests, but it isn't our job to kill American Kids for either side of these Civil Wars.

    Worse, decrying the President (whom we all know I'm no fan of) for doing what is in-effect the only right choice for us (not get involved, let the UN lead, and fail, saving American Lives and showcasing how fail the UN is), when you and your side cannot formulate a coherant opinion on what you want done, and when you cannot even decide which side of the various players is the "good side" over there, is laughable and counterproductive. When one can literally listen to a Hannity and his ilk, and hear him in the same sentence take both sides of the issue (intervene for freedom, but do nothing because their islamists) and then hear him bash Obama for whichever one we do, from both sides of teh debate, I mean really. Come on. Give it a rest.

    One dead American in Libya, or Egypt or Bahrain is one too many. Give it a rest, on this one Obama is in the right (like he is with keeping Gitmo Open and holding millitary trials for terrorists, and keeping the Patriot Act active, etc). This isn't the US's fight, it isn't our problem, and bashing us because we're not roaring to get involved in Wars #3, #4 and #5, all of which will paint us as killing yet more Arabs for our own interests, is a silly and foolish position to try and take.

    Frankly, if you think the Libyan cause of freedom is so valid, get off your own ass, and go help them fight yourself if you value it so highly.
    There's one leader: the POTUS. You don't like the fact that there are many opinions? Or that there is no leader? Republicans are more likely to fall in line behind a Dem president than vice-versa (at least officially).

    Unlike John Kerry or Jesse Jackson going off on their own "diplomatic missions"....

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    I frankly do not want us involved in any internal affairs of other countries. Stay the hello out of their ****e! BTW Obama has us still involved in Afghanistan and now Pakistan with the drones. Please let us stay out of these countries!

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    Congratulations to President Barack H. Obama. He finally found a situation where it's useful to dither and vote "Present" on!




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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Hurf de durf
    Just what we need - another ponderous, rambling (D)-flavored rant about how much a faction out of power they helped disable politically can do and the evil spell placed on us all by talk radio ...from people who don't really understand geopolitics...I know who the "bad guys" are over there...don't you?

    (R) only controls 1 house of Congress so real leadership has to come from the foreigner at the helm in any world matters...but he'd rather make up NCAA women's b-ball playoff brackets and then take a vacation from his vacation

    When our livelihoods and economies are affected by world events (even if you bike to work at Five Guys) the US President has to at least take notice, not impersonate an ostrich, and say more than Khadafy must go
    every 15 days without any further action overt or covert

    France and England taking the lead on Libya is a pretty startling turn of events. The Indian Navy rounding up Somali pirates ditto. Why oh why don't you protest their Ummah-infuriating actions?

    I for one urge 0 to do something, anything whether it be over-regulating oil speculation at home by his (D) pals on Wall St. or keeping Islamokooks from destroying the works over there-even opening our own oil spigots here would be a good start-it would be great if our Muslim-in-chief showed a goddamn iota of leadership for a change

    Re Egypt - the US is the guarantor of the Israeli-Egypt peace treaty and much of the precious stability, as sociopathic as the ME is, that does exist in the ME. For any of the countries experiencing upheaval, if US policy whether hands-off or intervening ends up placing extremists into power, (e g. those that say our peace and trade treaties aren't valid, reject sanctions on Fakeistinians, Iran and support terror exported here) that is not a good thing for anyone here, or there. 2011 is not the Libertarian-isolationist fantasy world of 1811 where zealot kooks once isolated thousands of miles from here cannot cause mayhem over here.
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 03-19-2011 at 12:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post


    Couldn't of said it better myself.
    If you said "couldn't have", that would be saying it even better!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Just what we need - another ponderous, rambling (D)-flavored rant
    Give it a break Flsuhing, you love replying to these. You do it every single time, without fail.

    I know who the "bad guys" are over there...don't you?
    I'd be willing to bet you do not. I'm wiling to bet you have no idea the cultural and social makeup of the rebellion in Bahrain, Libya or Egpyt in any measure of detail.

    real leadership has to come from the foreigner at the helm in any world matters...but he'd rather make up NCAA women's b-ball playoff brackets and then take a vacation from his vacation
    Except thus fra, no one o fth eright can define what "real leadership" would be, they just want "something, anything". I.e. we must attack, but we have no idea what needs done either, so we'll attack for doing "nothing".

    When our livelihoods and economies are affected by world events
    "Our" economy and livlihood is not meangfully effected by Libya. And I'll have to take your word on what biking to Five Guys is like.

    say more than Khadafy must go
    every 15 days without any further action overt or covert
    So blaze the trail your (R) Friends have failed to, and tell us specificly how many American Lives Libya is worth to you, how much of a millitary investment Libya is worth to you, whilst we fight Iraq and Afghanistan.

    France and England taking the lead on Libya is a pretty startling turn of events. The Indian Navy rounding up Somali pirates ditto.
    No, whats startling is that a man as brilliant as you doesn't seem to get that the three powers you list are not piddling nothings on the geopolitical and millitary World Stage, and the problems they are addressing are more theirs, than ours.

    our Muslim-in-chief
    For the record, you lose IQ points when you spout ignorances like "Muslim-in-Chief" or start talking about where he was born. No one with an ounce of seriousness takes such tripe seriously.

    Re Egypt...2011 is not the Libertarian-isolationist fantasy world of 1811 where zealot kooks once isolated thousands of miles from here cannot cause mayhem over here.
    Nor is it the 1980's, when we foolishly armed every radical, tyrant and murderer in the name of "fighting communism" in countries that don't mean or amount to a hill or dung in the grand scheme.

    To follow the rights demands, we should be "doing something, anything", yet the specifics are all either vague, or the predctable demands of party-politics that have been made before (and will be made after) the Libyan episode is over.

    The irony here, sad as it is, is that the very rebels many on the right now wish to help and arm vs. their Tyrant, are the same Islamic Radicals and Islamic Statists who the right so deeply distrusts and depsises (rightfully so in many cases). Yes, damned if you do, damned if you don't.....but in this case, I've had my fill playing World Cop and using our taxpayer dollars to save lives in countries that mean little to us. **** them. It's about damn time the other World Powers got off their ass and started helping with the heavy lifting, and spending their lives instead of ours for all the "freedom", i.e. regime changing and nation building to protect corporations and fiscal interests, that they wish to.

    TLDR, I don't care if the Kings Oil Revenue is in danger, this surf has had enough spending American lives to protect it. I'd rather pay #$6/gallon, I can do it, so it's of no concern to me.
    Last edited by Warfish; 03-19-2011 at 09:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Give it a break Flsuhing, you love replying to these. You do it every single time, without fail.



    I'd be willing to bet you do not. I'm wiling to bet you have no idea the cultural and social makeup of the rebellion in Bahrain, Libya or Egpyt in any measure of detail.



    Except thus fra, no one o fth eright can define what "real leadership" would be, they just want "something, anything". I.e. we must attack, but we have no idea what needs done either, so we'll attack for doing "nothing".



    "Our" economy and livlihood is not meangfully effected by Libya. And I'll have to take your word on what biking to Five Guys is like.



    So blaze the trail your (R) Friends have failed to, and tell us specificly how many American Lives Libya is worth to you, how much of a millitary investment Libya is worth to you, whilst we fight Iraq and Afghanistan.



    No, whats startling is that a man as brilliant as you doesn't seem to get that the three powers you list are not piddling nothings on the geopolitical and millitary World Stage, and the problems they are addressing are more theirs, than ours.



    For the record, you lose IQ points when you spout ignorances like "Muslim-in-Chief" or start talking about where he was born. No one with an ounce of seriousness takes such tripe seriously.



    Nor is it the 1980's, when we foolishly armed every radical, tyrant and murderer in the name of "fighting communism" in countries that don't mean or amount to a hill or dung in the grand scheme.

    To follow the rights demands, we should be "doing something, anything", yet the specifics are all either vague, or the predctable demands of party-politics that have been made before (and will be made after) the Libyan episode is over.

    The irony here, sad as it is, is that the very rebels many on the right now wish to help and arm vs. their Tyrant, are the same Islamic Radicals and Islamic Statists who the right so deeply distrusts and depsises (rightfully so in many cases). Yes, damned if you do, damned if you don't.....but in this case, I've had my fill playing World Cop and using our taxpayer dollars to save lives in countries that mean little to us. **** them. It's about damn time the other World Powers got off their ass and started helping with the heavy lifting, and spending their lives instead of ours for all the "freedom", i.e. regime changing and nation building to protect corporations and fiscal interests, that they wish to.

    TLDR, I don't care if the Kings Oil Revenue is in danger, this surf has had enough spending American lives to protect it. I'd rather pay #$6/gallon, I can do it, so it's of no concern to me.
    Warfish, I don't comment at all in this forum if I can help it, but I must say I was impressed with your thinking here. The differences between Conservative and Liberal are always easier to discern in domestic affairs. On the world stage they are practically indistinguishable... activist models dominate, only the reasons change. Libya represents a prime example of all the difficulties inherent in meddling in the sordid affairs of troubled countries, even when King Oil is in play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    "Our" economy and livlihood is not meangfully effected by Libya.
    So it's sheer coincidence oil spiked with the current unrest going on over there...?

    Libya, even though they account for a small portion of the oil production, still affects crude oil prices around the globe...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish

    I'd be willing to bet you do not. I'm wiling to bet you have no idea the cultural and social makeup of the rebellion in Bahrain, Libya or Egpyt in any measure of detail.
    Oh great. Now it's a game of "Your dismissal of my weighty hurf doesn't mean much, you don't know as much as I do". Laddie, I'd put my academic and professional credentials up against yours any day!

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish

    Except thus fra, no one o fth eright can define what "real leadership" would be, they just want "something, anything". I.e. we must attack, but we have no idea what needs done either, so we'll attack for doing "nothing".
    Who said to "attack"? Moi? But if attacking Libya was justified, as Reagan did, we should. Leadership , as is the sole function of the inept B. H. Carter today, would be to identify and support a way to effect an orderly regime change. No ideas, no action, just "Khadafy must go" Succeeded by whom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish
    "Our" economy and livlihood is not meangfully effected by Libya. And I'll have to take your word on what biking to Five Guys is like.
    See AGAW/Revi$ above. US gas has spiked with complete inaction on B. Hussein's part and that's just the way he and his Wall St. speculator cronies like it.

    In parallel, utilizing our Strategic Oil reserve, issuing a few more Gulf permits, the SEC etc limiting Wall St oil speculation would be all great moves that B. H. Carter could make without any military action. But nothing...

    I can't imagine you personally riding a bike of any kind, kilts get caught in spokes and fenders easily. Plus you need balance, you seem to tend to steer towards the left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish
    So blaze the trail your (R) Friends have failed to, and tell us specificly how many American Lives Libya is worth to you, how much of a millitary investment Libya is worth to you, whilst we fight Iraq and Afghanistan.
    An opinion like that would have been laughed at in WW2 days, the US fought tooth and nail on several fronts (> 2!) in WW2 with far less firepower. If we had to, we'd fight as many fronts as we need to...nevertheless..Iraq as a battlefield is dormant and Afghanistan is not quite Dunkirk...more sitzkreig than blitzkrieg

    Blaze a trail? See previous statement. No lives or estimate thereof.

    Investment? My tax dollars have already helped build a formidable arsenal and I'd like to see a few already-paid-for warheads "tested" out with the push of a remote car starter.

    As you may know, since 9/11, I'm a rev up the bombers-pull the atomic football out of mothballs-go General Sherman on the enemy-take their oil, natural resources and torch their poppy fields kind of guy, but no one has ever quite followed my war plan!

    Again, despite your pathological hatred for (R) folk, (R) is not running things, (D) is. It's up to (D) to do stuff, and tell us why THEIR actions, or inactions, are so valid.

    For example, the Arab League of all people are begging the US to at least help establish a no-fly zone. So much for poking the Islamic hornet's nest. Hardcore lib (D) and paleo-cons don't want us to do anything, yet the (D) media is making Libya a headline story and implying we, the US should act for reasons ranging from humanitarian to calculatedly political. It would be great it B. Hussein could say anything more than Khadafy must go. Why must Khadafy go? What harm did he cause us NOW after we supposedly all made nice awhile back? Who are the "rebels" and who has given these fine folks that look like they havent two dinars to rub together wearing tatterered Man U knockoff jerseys and riding side-saddle on anti-aircraft guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish
    No, whats startling is that a man as brilliant as you doesn't seem to get that the three powers you list are not piddling nothings on the geopolitical and millitary World Stage, and the problems they are addressing are more theirs, than ours.
    Thank you for acknowledging my brilliance, you are on your way to future JSJ-like awareness but you still need work. Stop partying like it's 1939 and you might...

    Compared to the US, these nations are piddling-but why are world problems more theirs than ours? Explain...

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish
    For the record, you lose IQ points when you spout ignorances like "Muslim-in-Chief" or start talking about where he was born. No one with an ounce of seriousness takes such tripe seriously.
    Oh great...again...are you keeping a Jeopardy!-like thread scorecard here?

    As I'm a man of logic and fact (I make my living in compliance) proof and evidence is key. I have a long form and a cheesy 0-like short form copy of my US / NY Birth Certificate- I can produce both in a heartbeat-where's his? No long form, no proof of American birth, end of story. Don't worry when his eldest bares all in Playboy in a few years you'll read about it then.

    Do I have to rehash B. Hussein's Islamic birth and upbringing AGAIN? How many years after his alleged conversion to another hate-cult did we read in his own words, "the sound of the muezzin is the sweetest sound on earth" etc?

    When the homeless guy under the overpass says he has a bank account with millions in cash do you believe him too?

    But seriously, if I called him the Black Liberation Theologist-In-Chief he'd be the BLT-in Chief...I'd then be confused about which was more decisive, B. Hussein or a sandwich...I'm leaning towards the sandwich...the libs would want to nosh on him more than they already do literally and figuratively...libertarians would just get hungry. [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish
    Nor is it the 1980's, when we foolishly armed every radical, tyrant and murderer in the name of "fighting communism" in countries that don't mean or amount to a hill or dung in the grand scheme.
    That was still in the Cold War era, we also put Pershing missiles in W. Europe over the howls of "progressives" everywhere. Which tyrants did the US fund to ill effect? Ortega? Castro? Methinks the USSR did most of the tyrant-funding to iller effect! And even I an America-Firster and Bester do not consider the ROW untermenschen....I do believe in nation building. Worked great in Japan. You know, the country with one of the PMs that B.Hussein bowed down to but failed to even mention for a week after a grave national catastrophe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish
    To follow the rights demands, we should be "doing something, anything", yet the specifics are all either vague, or the predctable demands of party-politics that have been made before (and will be made after) the Libyan episode is over.

    The irony here, sad as it is, is that the very rebels many on the right now wish to help and arm vs. their Tyrant, are the same Islamic Radicals and Islamic Statists who the right so deeply distrusts and depsises (rightfully so in many cases). Yes, damned if you do, damned if you don't.....but in this case, I've had my fill playing World Cop and using our taxpayer dollars to save lives in countries that mean little to us. **** them. It's about damn time the other World Powers got off their ass and started helping with the heavy lifting, and spending their lives instead of ours for all the "freedom", i.e. regime changing and nation building to protect corporations and fiscal interests, that they wish to.

    TLDR, I don't care if the Kings Oil Revenue is in danger, this surf has had enough spending American lives to protect it. I'd rather pay #$6/gallon, I can do it, so it's of no concern to me.
    The greatest show on hurf...essentially sticking up for (D) while hallucinating over (R) bogeymen...my turn to keep score now and check off your '12 vote as (D-Enabler)
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 03-19-2011 at 05:20 PM.

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    First Egypt now Libya, Jordan all involving the Muslim Brotherhood which we know little about. But we are claiming they are peacemakers which remains to be seen. Be very careful what you wish for. Iran was supposed to be a Democracy but that didn't turn out so well did it? I smell wholesale murder of non muslims in the air! Israel left turning in the wind. All by the peacemaker!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MnJetFan View Post
    First Egypt now Libya, Jordan all involving the Muslim Brotherhood which we know little about. But we are claiming they are peacemakers which remains to be seen. Be very careful what you wish for. Iran was supposed to be a Democracy but that didn't turn out so well did it? I smell wholesale murder of non muslims in the air! Israel left turning in the wind. All by the peacemaker!
    No one claims the Libyan Rebels are pro-democracy/pro-west. The problem is we dont know who they are. Thats why we waited for Pan-Arab support to enforce a no-fly zone.

    As for Israel left turning in the wind....please spare me. Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the WORLD, funded by US Tax Dollars. They have a Nuclear arsenal. They could wipe out the entire Middle East if they chose. I wouldnt worry too much about Israel. They are Big Boys and can take care of themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    No one claims the Libyan Rebels are pro-democracy/pro-west. The problem is we dont know who they are. Thats why we waited for Pan-Arab support to enforce a no-fly zone.

    As for Israel left turning in the wind....please spare me. Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the WORLD, funded by US Tax Dollars. They have a Nuclear arsenal. They could wipe out the entire Middle East if they chose. I wouldnt worry too much about Israel. They are Big Boys and can take care of themselves.
    Which one of these Pan-Arab countries who are supporting a no fly zone have a democratically elected government? Which one of these countries are shooting missiles and have planes in the air that weren't built by the US or the French?

    It's nice to have a coalition but at the end of the day the coalition is France, Great Britain, Canada and the US.

    Using Pan-Arab support for this attack is CYA at its finest. Using it as legal cover is laughable.

    Most of these countries support the murder of pro-democracy protesters on site and are actively doing it while supporting a no fly zone for "Humanitarian" reasons.

    At the end of the day US foreign policy should be based on what's good for the US. Obama has so twisted his mind with doing the right thing that the US today is using drones to kill civilians all over the world while ringing its hands about killing a known murderer of US civilians and military personal.

    I'm okay with a mission to bring Kaddafi to justice. I'm not okay with a legal justification to suck us into a civil war based on "Humanitarian" interests based on the will of Arab dictators. What is our mission in Libya?
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 03-20-2011 at 10:31 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Which one of these Pan-Arab countries who are supporting a no fly zone have a democratically elected government?

    Lebanon, the sponsors of the UN resolution have a democratically elected government.


    Which one of these countries are shooting missiles and have planes in the air that weren't built by the US or the French?

    Egypt is funneling weapons and Ammo to the rebels. Sure they are built by the USA but in this regions most of the Arms were built from outside nations, either the USA, Russia or Europe. Additionally the Arab League has agreed to provide support. In what way? Not sure yet. Dont belittle Egypt's role in this.


    It's nice to have a coalition but at the end of the day the coalition is France, Great Britain, Canada and the US.
    For the most part. And thats the way it will always be.


    Using Pan-Arab support for this attack is CYA at its finest. Using it as legal cover is laughable.

    I agree. But CYA is very important in this case, do you not agree? W/O Pan-Arab support this is "the west trying to steal Libyas Oil". And there will be some radicals who still claim this. But any action in Libya required this type of Arab support.


    Most of these countries support the murder of pro-democracy protesters on site and are actively doing it while supporting a no fly zone for "Humanitarian" reasons.

    Kind of hypocritical, huh? They may be the next regime to fall...or not. Time will tell.


    At the end of the day US foreign policy should be based on what's good for the US. Obama has so twisted his mind with doing the right thing that the US today is using drones to kill civilians all over the world while ringing its hands about killing a known murderer of US civilians and military personal.

    I'm okay with a mission to bring Kaddafi to justice. I'm not okay with a legal justification to suck us into a civil war based on "Humanitarian" interests based on the will of Arab dictators. What is our mission in Libya?

    Agree 100%. Our mission is to provide a no-fly zone. Period. Thats it. Anything more would be unacceptable. Our goal is to take out airfields and air defense sites. What happens then is uup to the rebel and european allies. As long as we have a narrow specific objective, thats fine.

    .

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    As you may know, since 9/11, I'm a rev up the bombers-pull the atomic football out of mothballs-go General Sherman on the enemy-take their oil, natural resources and torch their poppy fields kind of guy, but no one has ever quite followed my war plan!
    lolz

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    I agree. But CYA is very important in this case, do you not agree? W/O Pan-Arab support this is "the west trying to steal Libyas Oil". And there will be some radicals who still claim this. But any action in Libya required this type of Arab support.
    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...kes/index.html

    The head of the Arab League has criticized international strikes on Libya, saying they caused civilian deaths.

    The Arab League's support for a no-fly zone last week helped overcome reluctance in the West for action in Libya. The U.N. authorized not only a no-fly zone but also "all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

    Amr Moussa says the military operations have gone beyond what the Arab League backed.

    Moussa has told reporters Sunday that "what happened differs from the no-fly zone objectives." He says "what we want is civilians' protection not shelling more civilians."

    U.S. and European strikes overnight targeted mainly air defenses, the U.S. military said. Libya says 48 people were killed, including civilians.

    Moussa who is the head of the Arab League is said to be seeking to be the Next President of Egypt. So much for CYA from the Arabs.

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