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Thread: Carolina Panthers dropping Hints for #1?

  1. #21
    Well talent wise I still think Mallett is the better QB. He is just not a very well liked guy. I still do not see them taking a QB at all. Teams do this when they want to trade down they will make it look like they are interested in everyone until anther team gets antsy and calls about trading up.

  2. #22
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    i would imagine the Mallet move would be more about taking him in the 2nd or trading up into the late first (with us maybe? ) should they chose to d-line

  3. #23
    people in general are not valuing these quarterbacks correctly. Mallett, Ponder and Locker are not a full round in value away from Newton and gabbert. they are all likely first rounders. Mallett might not be worth #1 but he's worth #10 to Skins or #12 to Minnesota... the supply of quarterbacks is small and the demand is huge

    also these are not "out of nowhere" prospects... Scouts have been following Mallett for years.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    people in general are not valuing these quarterbacks correctly. Mallett, Ponder and Locker are not a full round in value away from Newton and gabbert. they are all likely first rounders. Mallett might not be worth #1 but he's worth #10 to Skins or #12 to Minnesota... the supply of quarterbacks is small and the demand is huge

    also these are not "out of nowhere" prospects... Scouts have been following Mallett for years.
    True but it comes back to are these guys any good? I think teams will resist the temptation of reaching for a QB, yeah and I know people hate that term.

    The Jets need a pass rushing OLB the most, I'd be pissed if there were great DE's on the board and we went after a guy with 2nd round value because we have a need and there is a shortage of them.

    Hey, I'll be very happy if every team that needs a Qb goes after these guys, better prospects for us. I just don't think all of these teams are going to be dumb enough to let quality players waift by them as they leap for the 4th best QB in the draft who really should be a mid to late 2nd rounder.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    True but it comes back to are these guys any good?
    it almost doesn't matter. If you are looking at Jimmy Clausen, Todd Collins or Joe Webb as your starting QB then yeah they are plenty good.

    You'd rather have Ryan Mallett than any of those scrubs.

    It's funny how fans of teams with great QBs are all sorts of connoisseurs of signal calling. Patriots fans, Chargers fans, and Colts fans can wax poetic about how Ryan Mallett is a flawed prospect. How he's not a "franchise" QB. But ask a Cardinals or Redskins fan you'll get a different story entirely.

    I also think people confuse current abilities with projected abilities. Right now yes Newton and Gabbert need a ton of work. But in 3-5 years they could be great. despite the success of Bradford and others the draft is not really for right now.

    Dan reeves was in the media last week and had great quotes about Cam Newton.

    "I can teach a guy to get up under center," Reeves said. "But I canít teach a guy to throw. He has a tremendous arm, and I think heís going to be really effective no matter what he was doing in college. I mean, how many times do you see Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in the shotgun? A lot."

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    it almost doesn't matter. If you are looking at Jimmy Clausen, Todd Collins or Joe Webb as your starting QB then yeah they are plenty good.

    You'd rather have Ryan Mallett than any of those scrubs.

    It's funny how fans of teams with great QBs are all sorts of connoisseurs of signal calling. Patriots fans, Chargers fans, and Colts fans can wax poetic about how Ryan Mallett is a flawed prospect. How he's not a "franchise" QB. But ask a Cardinals or Redskins fan you'll get a different story entirely.

    I also think people confuse current abilities with projected abilities. Right now yes Newton and Gabbert need a ton of work. But in 3-5 years they could be great. despite the success of Bradford and others the draft is not really for right now.

    Dan reeves was in the media last week and had great quotes about Cam Newton.

    "I can teach a guy to get up under center," Reeves said. "But I canít teach a guy to throw. He has a tremendous arm, and I think heís going to be really effective no matter what he was doing in college. I mean, how many times do you see Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in the shotgun? A lot."
    Reeves? He can teach a guy to hand off a million times a game.

    The key to your post is the bolded part.

    3-5 years they may be great, meanwhile you have just let Aldon smith, von miller, cam jordan, peterson, green, jones etc etc go to other teams.

    For some teams it may make sense to go after a QB but certainly not all, even if they don't have a QB.

    There are QB's to be had every single year, whether they be high picks or guys like Kolb and Palmer etc. What's the hurry for a team like carolina?

    Know why the Jets have been to the afc champ game the last two years with a developing QB? They built the rest of the team first then got very aggressive to get the QB when they found a guy they really liked. The Jets could have ignored D'Brick very easily Matt leinart and Cutler were there just waiting for them. It would have been a dumb move.

    This is not a tremendous year for Qb's, physical talent? Yeah sure but actual game play is lacking for a lot of these guys. Now if I wanted one of these guys as a gm I'd have no problem making my pick and then trying to trade up to grab one perhaps but there is way too much value in other positions to panic and grab a guy too early.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Hey, I'll be very happy if every team that needs a Qb goes after these guys, better prospects for us. .
    I'm quietly getting a little giddy coming into april. There "appears" to be a number of teams that are going pass on defensive front 7 players to address other needs in rnd 1. I'm praying a gem or two slip down to us.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post

    There are QB's to be had every single year, whether they be high picks or guys like Kolb and Palmer etc. What's the hurry for a team like carolina?
    carson palmer is just good enough to get a team to mediocre. I hope he goes to Miami and drives that franchise right into the river. I'd be more scared if they signed Brad Smith and played wildcat all game.

    In the NFL if you don't have a Qb you don't have a chance. it effects the whole team. the defense won't play as hard to get the ball back to a bum QB.

    I agree you gotta build the trenches first but Carolina needs more than a left tackle they need a face of the franchise. They need hope.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    The Jets could have ignored D'Brick very easily Matt leinart and Cutler were there just waiting for them. It would have been a dumb move.
    also should be noted the Jets were on the Chad bandwagon back in 2006. it was running out of steam but still they felt they at least had a guy in the locker room people respected and would play for. No one likes Jimmy Clausen. that guy is awful.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Reeves? He can teach a guy to hand off a million times a game.

    The key to your post is the bolded part.

    3-5 years they may be great, meanwhile you have just let Aldon smith, von miller, cam jordan, peterson, green, jones etc etc go to other teams.

    For some teams it may make sense to go after a QB but certainly not all, even if they don't have a QB.

    There are QB's to be had every single year, whether they be high picks or guys like Kolb and Palmer etc. What's the hurry for a team like carolina?

    Know why the Jets have been to the afc champ game the last two years with a developing QB? They built the rest of the team first then got very aggressive to get the QB when they found a guy they really liked. The Jets could have ignored D'Brick very easily Matt leinart and Cutler were there just waiting for them. It would have been a dumb move.

    This is not a tremendous year for Qb's, physical talent? Yeah sure but actual game play is lacking for a lot of these guys. Now if I wanted one of these guys as a gm I'd have no problem making my pick and then trying to trade up to grab one perhaps but there is way too much value in other positions to panic and grab a guy too early.
    one key thing here is that leinart sucked, and cutler, while productive, is NOT the guy you want to be the face of your franchise. cutler does not make players around him better, has zero charisma, etc. of the qbs in the 2011 draft, i think only newton is worth considering. gabbert doesn't seem to be in the elite category, and the others have major ?s.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    also should be noted the Jets were on the Chad bandwagon back in 2006. it was running out of steam but still they felt they at least had a guy in the locker room people respected and would play for. No one likes Jimmy Clausen. that guy is awful.
    they don't even have to keep clauson. they can get a veteran guy as a stop gap, then reevaluate the position after the season. if you believe you take BAP at key positions to avoid reaching/busting, then carolina should pull a texans and take their mario williams and let other teams take leinart, reggie bush, etc. take the guy you think will be an all pro every year.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    they don't even have to keep clauson. they can get a veteran guy as a stop gap, then reevaluate the position after the season. if you believe you take BAP at key positions to avoid reaching/busting, then carolina should pull a texans and take their mario williams and let other teams take leinart, reggie bush, etc. take the guy you think will be an all pro every year.
    ok but who is the Mario Williams this year? there is none. There is no Suh in this draft.and even he didn't go #1.

    patrick peterson maybe but there hasn't been a #1 CB for 5 decades.

    end of the day there is no rebuilding in the NFL only reloading. the Panthers cannot decide to lose 15 games and wait for Andrew Luck.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    carson palmer is just good enough to get a team to mediocre. I hope he goes to Miami and drives that franchise right into the river. I'd be more scared if they signed Brad Smith and played wildcat all game.

    In the NFL if you don't have a Qb you don't have a chance. it effects the whole team. the defense won't play as hard to get the ball back to a bum QB.

    I agree you gotta build the trenches first but Carolina needs more than a left tackle they need a face of the franchise. They need hope.
    I agree if you don't have a QB you don't have a chance most of the time, there are always exceptions Trent freaking dilfer won a super bowl and the horrible chicago dude got them to a super bowl. You just have to be sure the guy you go after is the one you want. This time next year Carolina is standing around after a 3-13 year looking a Luck and saying.....nope can't go after him we draft Newton/Gabbert.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    also should be noted the Jets were on the Chad bandwagon back in 2006. it was running out of steam but still they felt they at least had a guy in the locker room people respected and would play for. No one likes Jimmy Clausen. that guy is awful.
    No problemo, you go out and get a stop gap.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    ok but who is the Mario Williams this year? there is none. There is no Suh in this draft.and even he didn't go #1.

    patrick peterson maybe but there hasn't been a #1 CB for 5 decades.

    end of the day there is no rebuilding in the NFL only reloading. the Panthers cannot decide to lose 15 games and wait for Andrew Luck.
    true, but taking a defensive player who you believe will be, at least, very good, is better than taking a qb prospect who is relatively risky to guys like bradford, ryan and stafford, and swinging and missing big time.

    look at the 49ers. they swung and missed. they felt obligated to stick with smith for a few years longer than they otherwise would have if he hadn't been the #1 pick, and it set them back a few years.

    now i know that draft class was particulary weak at the top (nonwithstanding the fact they could have had rodgers), since they weren't in love with any of the qb prospects, it can be argued that the smarter pick would have been to take a non-qb at an impact position. my reasoning is that if you screw up the qb pick, the team is way more likely to stick with that qb for years after it's clear the guy doesn't have it, b/c of the money invested and for sheer pride. by contrast, if you pick a DE or RB, that player can be 'only pretty good', like a ronnie brown, and you haven't risked the next 5 seasons on a qb you didn't like to begin with. taking a qb you don't like is probably the worst thing to do at the top, b/c that guy determines the W/L more than anyone else.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    one key thing here is that leinart sucked, and cutler, while productive, is NOT the guy you want to be the face of your franchise. cutler does not make players around him better, has zero charisma, etc. of the qbs in the 2011 draft, i think only newton is worth considering. gabbert doesn't seem to be in the elite category, and the others have major ?s.
    Uh, very easy to say what you just said now. At the time Leinart and Cutler were thought to be top 10 guys and each had at least as much pedigree as the guys coming out. Even Vince Young had a similar pedigree to Newton. The top 3 QB;s in that draft had more universal appeal than the guys being talked about in this draft.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    ok but who is the Mario Williams this year? there is none. There is no Suh in this draft.and even he didn't go #1.

    patrick peterson maybe but there hasn't been a #1 CB for 5 decades.

    end of the day there is no rebuilding in the NFL only reloading. the Panthers cannot decide to lose 15 games and wait for Andrew Luck.
    There will be other QB's next year besides luck. Just like this year guys like Gabbert were not hailed as sure fire top rated guys.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    true, but taking a defensive player who you believe will be, at least, very good, is better than taking a qb prospect who is relatively risky to guys like bradford, ryan and stafford, and swinging and missing big time.
    Matthew Stafford has noodle arm the dude's shoulder is a mess. I'd rather have any of the top 5 QBs next year than Stafford.

    My point is there are no guarantees not with Qbs or defenders. Left tackle is usually the safest but even then you can miss.

    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    look at the 49ers. they swung and missed. they felt obligated to stick with smith for a few years longer than they otherwise would have if he hadn't been the #1 pick, and it set them back a few years.
    assuming a CBA gets done the rookie salaries will be reduced, the days of the 50 million dollar bonus babies are done. That makes a Newton or Gabbert type pick less risky at the top. The draft becomes more about upside and less about risk.

    as for Carolina getting a stop gap... like who... Alex Smith? Stop gap is just another way of saying low quality.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Uh, very easy to say what you just said now. At the time Leinart and Cutler were thought to be top 10 guys and each had at least as much pedigree as the guys coming out. Even Vince Young had a similar pedigree to Newton. The top 3 QB;s in that draft had more universal appeal than the guys being talked about in this draft.
    if leinart and/or cutler were considered elite prospects they would have been taken earlier than they were. each had concerns as did young. if the titans owner didn't want to draft another mcnair, it's possible young would have fallen a lot.

    as for brick, he was considered an elite prospect at his position (at least from pass protection), and many regarded him as the most 'can't miss' prospect in the entire draft. so taking brick at a premiere position over qbs who, with hindsight, either stunk or became team cancers, made sense. don't take a qb you don't like, you have to live with the consequences.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Matthew Stafford has noodle arm the dude's shoulder is a mess. I'd rather have any of the top 5 QBs next year than Stafford.

    My point is there are no guarantees not with Qbs or defenders. Left tackle is usually the safest but even then you can miss.



    assuming a CBA gets done the rookie salaries will be reduced, the days of the 50 million dollar bonus babies are done. That makes a Newton or Gabbert type pick less risky at the top. The draft becomes more about upside and less about risk.

    as for Carolina getting a stop gap... like who... Alex Smith? Stop gap is just another way of saying low quality.

    then you condemn a franchise to suck until they finally hit paydirt on a qb. if carolina, for example, keeps taking qbs in the top 5 - mostly based on upside - then they're going to stink until one of them becomes an elite qb. in the meantime, other teams will be taking all pros at other positions and building very strong rosters. look at what the jets did. they drafted BAP under tanny for a few drafts, mostly did well, and then they made the move up to draft a qb they liked.

    there are many ways to build a team. but taking a qb with the #1 pick when none may merit even a top half first round grade is unlikely to help your team in the long run.

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