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Thread: Is Akeem Ayers the one?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    It was also from 2009...and 1 game...How did he play in '10? Improve? the same? worse? Just asking...
    tough to say... a little better i guess? it's not great.

    on film, he's more of a 2nd/3rd round player. check him out

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMqEw5XDQ84

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14Px6MLRfk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9E-uT6PgM

    one thing youll notice is that all that announcers claim he's a physical freak... he didn't work out like a freak. Moch worked out like a freak. Houston worked out like a freak. Ayers... worked out meh.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    tough to say... a little better i guess? it's not great.

    on film, he's more of a 2nd/3rd round player. check him out

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMqEw5XDQ84

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14Px6MLRfk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9E-uT6PgM

    one thing youll notice is that all that announcers claim he's a physical freak... he didn't work out like a freak. Moch worked out like a freak. Houston worked out like a freak. Ayers... worked out meh.
    thanks..I'm no scout or expert..I'd draft him just cause he deflects passes which is something the Jets don't do.. I think his tackling will improve as he gets stronger..He's athletic...They lined him up everywhere..which at this point of his development could have hurt him by putting too much on his plate..In the long run it will have helped him, but ILB doesn't suit him though, he needs to be on the outside..If you just keep him outside and develop him he can be a pretty good player..Like you say, at 30 everyone is going to have some holes in their game..

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    It was also from 2009...and 1 game...How did he play in '10? Improve? the same? worse? Just asking...
    but its a youtube clip... btw- can you name me one a college defender/NFL prospect that's never missed a tackle??

    answering your questions- they used him a lot differently in 2010, lining him up around the field and using him out of a three point stance....he's starting to get a rep from some that he's a guy that gets by on natural talent- definitely not something encouraging at this point....

    that said its funny that some who claim they know think that getting a pass rusher automatically improves the pass rush...its like saying getting a good running back automoatically improves your running game or getting a good receiver automatically improves the passing game despite a leaky offensive line, QB that can't throw, etc...

    as stated in another thread- if the Jets take Ayers in round one he almost instantaneously becomes their best coverage LB- as big a sore point on the defense as anything else....

    something to ponder- if there are two different LB's available @30 are the Jets better off selecting someone with great stat sacks or a LB that's proven himself making plays in reverse??

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    but its a youtube clip... btw- can you name me one a college defender/NFL prospect that's never missed a tackle??

    yeah he misses the tackles on youtube but he makes them on coaches film. it's the damnedest thing.

    I do actually agree about coverage LB being a need on the defense. And it is a strength of his game.

    But I wonder how the NY media and fans will deal with another first round pick who produces no stats. Unless he's picking 6 and running to the house they will say he's a bust.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    But I wonder how the NY media and fans will deal with another first round pick who produces no stats. Unless he's picking 6 and running to the house they will say he's a bust.
    Not much can be said if the team is winning games... That'll remedy the 30th pick having 7-15 PD's and a handful of pressures...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    something to ponder- if there are two different LB's available @30 are the Jets better off selecting someone with great stat sacks or a LB that's proven himself making plays in reverse??
    It seems like the guy who can cover would be the better fit, but is their pass defense a problem because they have LBs who can't cover or because they have to bring 6 men to get pressure on the QB?

    Personally, I think it's probably better if they can find a OLB who excells at rushing the passer, then get a safety who can cover the TE.

    They do need an ILB who can cover and get Scott out of there on 3rd down.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    It seems like the guy who can cover would be the better fit, but is their pass defense a problem because they have LBs who can't cover or because they have to bring 6 men to get pressure on the QB?

    Personally, I think it's probably better if they can find a OLB who excells at rushing the passer, then get a safety who can cover the TE.

    They do need an ILB who can cover and get Scott out of there on 3rd down.
    if a QB can quickly find a TE or RB over the middle sacks are tougher to come by....

    here's the other issue....Ayers sacks totals were brought up- yet Ayers was an LB that was asked to play in space much more than he was asked to make plays behind the line of scrimmage....he had four sacks/10tfl in 12 games...

    now compare this to Brooks Reed- solely based on the fact that he's very likely to be available @30...Reed was almost exclusively lined up in a 3pt stance and rarely asked to make plays in space.....he had 6.5sacks/10tfl in 13 games...

    so if one thinks Ayers is not a good fit they sure as hell can't make the arguement for Reed based on the numbers....

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    yeah he misses the tackles on youtube but he makes them on coaches film. it's the damnedest thing.

    I do actually agree about coverage LB being a need on the defense. And it is a strength of his game.

    But I wonder how the NY media and fans will deal with another first round pick who produces no stats. Unless he's picking 6 and running to the house they will say he's a bust.
    ever hear of Lance Mehl?? Mo Lewis??? even before Parcells arrived and let Lewis loose he was the concensus best player on the Jets defense despite pdestrian sack totals...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    if a QB can quickly find a TE or RB over the middle sacks are tougher to come by....

    here's the other issue....Ayers sacks totals were brought up- yet Ayers was an LB that was asked to play in space much more than he was asked to make plays behind the line of scrimmage....he had four sacks/10tfl in 12 games...

    now compare this to Brooks Reed- solely based on the fact that he's very likely to be available @30...Reed was almost exclusively lined up in a 3pt stance and rarely asked to make plays in space.....he had 6.5sacks/10tfl in 13 games...

    so if one thinks Ayers is not a good fit they sure as hell can't make the arguement for Reed based on the numbers....
    There ya go....you just did it. Sirens are going off in the South West. The BR Defender will be here shortly.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    if a QB can quickly find a TE or RB over the middle sacks are tougher to come by....

    here's the other issue....Ayers sacks totals were brought up- yet Ayers was an LB that was asked to play in space much more than he was asked to make plays behind the line of scrimmage....he had four sacks/10tfl in 12 games...

    now compare this to Brooks Reed- solely based on the fact that he's very likely to be available @30...Reed was almost exclusively lined up in a 3pt stance and rarely asked to make plays in space.....he had 6.5sacks/10tfl in 13 games...

    so if one thinks Ayers is not a good fit they sure as hell can't make the arguement for Reed based on the numbers....
    Good points.

    It doesn't really matter because I think Ayers is long gone at 30 anyway.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    if a QB can quickly find a TE or RB over the middle sacks are tougher to come by....

    here's the other issue....Ayers sacks totals were brought up- yet Ayers was an LB that was asked to play in space much more than he was asked to make plays behind the line of scrimmage....he had four sacks/10tfl in 12 games...

    now compare this to Brooks Reed- solely based on the fact that he's very likely to be available @30...Reed was almost exclusively lined up in a 3pt stance and rarely asked to make plays in space.....he had 6.5sacks/10tfl in 13 games...

    so if one thinks Ayers is not a good fit they sure as hell can't make the arguement for Reed based on the numbers....
    All this Brooks Reed business started with you. You innocently said 3 months ago "Check out Brooks Reed" and man... everyone (especially me) jumped on that bandwagon. But I get the sense that you are not as high on him as you were pre-combine. Am I wrong?

  12. #32
    so here's a question 4.69 at 259 from pro day is that really a first round LB number? it's an improvement over 4.8 but he's not the athletic freak people were billing him as... the list of linebackers with better workout numbers and better college production is kinda lengthy. if he ran a 4.4 ok fine but he didn't even get close. they could get Chris White in the 4th or 5th he ran those numbers in Feb. and had a great 3-cone. I just don't see the value at 30. Draft a sack guy ok fair enough sacks are rare. How rare is a 4.7 "coverage" LB? is that really sideline-to-sideline speed? i don't really know.
    Last edited by bitonti; 04-01-2011 at 05:39 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    so here's a question 4.69 at 259 from pro day is that really a first round LB number? it's an improvement over 4.8 but he's not the athletic freak people were billing him as... the list of linebackers with better workout numbers and better college production is kinda lengthy. if he ran a 4.4 ok fine but he didn't even get close.
    and considering how important blitzing is in ryan's schemes, unless this guy is an absolutely great pass rusher with a variety of moves, why knowingly draft an OLB in the first round who will have trouble getting to the qb?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesangleton View Post
    All this Brooks Reed business started with you. You innocently said 3 months ago "Check out Brooks Reed" and man... everyone (especially me) jumped on that bandwagon. But I get the sense that you are not as high on him as you were pre-combine. Am I wrong?
    i did...but as previously noted i was thinking round three back when i brought his name up in November....now he's the flavor of the day and everyone is talking top 32...no thanks...

  15. #35
    I could give a rats ass if a LB can cover because in the end they can almost never cover most match ups. Perhaps they can tag along with a TE but a slot or RB they will be left in the dust. I'm not slagging Ayers in this regard or saying that I don't want the guy as I haven't watched him but coverage abilities come in a distant 3rd for me to Qb pressure (olb) and run stopping (ILB and OLB). Get a pass rusher and suddenly the lb on the other side becomes one heck of a lot better at coverage.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    but its a youtube clip... btw- can you name me one a college defender/NFL prospect that's never missed a tackle??

    answering your questions- they used him a lot differently in 2010, lining him up around the field and using him out of a three point stance....he's starting to get a rep from some that he's a guy that gets by on natural talent- definitely not something encouraging at this point....

    that said its funny that some who claim they know think that getting a pass rusher automatically improves the pass rush...its like saying getting a good running back automoatically improves your running game or getting a good receiver automatically improves the passing game despite a leaky offensive line, QB that can't throw, etc...

    as stated in another thread- if the Jets take Ayers in round one he almost instantaneously becomes their best coverage LB- as big a sore point on the defense as anything else....

    something to ponder- if there are two different LB's available @30 are the Jets better off selecting someone with great stat sacks or a LB that's proven himself making plays in reverse??
    Tbh give me the sack artist.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    so here's a question 4.69 at 259 from pro day is that really a first round LB number? it's an improvement over 4.8 but he's not the athletic freak people were billing him as... the list of linebackers with better workout numbers and better college production is kinda lengthy. if he ran a 4.4 ok fine but he didn't even get close. they could get Chris White in the 4th or 5th he ran those numbers in Feb. and had a great 3-cone. I just don't see the value at 30. Draft a sack guy ok fair enough sacks are rare. How rare is a 4.7 "coverage" LB? is that really sideline-to-sideline speed? i don't really know.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gholston run a 4.65 at 265? He went 6th in the draft. So yes I think those numbers are good enough to be a first round LB. However, I do get what your saying in that he will be used more in coverage than pass rushing. That being said, part of Gholston's job had he seen the field would have been to cover.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesangleton View Post
    Is Akeem Ayers the answer at OLB we have been wanting for the last several years? Good size 6'4 250-255. Can play OLB, ILB very versitile. Would have liked a bit more in the sack total this year (only had 4). I think he can be a roaming LB like a Suggs type. He ran a modest 4.8 at the combine but so did Suggs (Ran a 4.84 on his pro-day). For UCLA he dropped back, lined up w/ hand down, stood up, pretty much everything. I think this guys is not as one dimensional as say a Justin Houston..Bottom line If Ayers, Jabaal Sheard, Brooks Reed are staring at us at 30 who do you take?
    The jets better draft a DL player with the 1st pick or tradeout and get more picks..

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by intothegreen View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gholston run a 4.65 at 265? He went 6th in the draft. So yes I think those numbers are good enough to be a first round LB.
    in retro spect that was a really weak draft. Gholston in this draft would be valued differently, he did have 37 bench press reps and other eye popping stats... and he couldn't play linebacker worth a damn so again is 4.69 fast enough?

    I do want to say however that if the Jets determine best player available was ayers fair enough. He's probably good value at that pick. They are really sweating the linebackers this year it would seem.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    in retro spect that was a really weak draft. Gholston in this draft would be valued differently, he did have 37 bench press reps and other eye popping stats... and he couldn't play linebacker worth a damn so again is 4.69 fast enough?

    I do want to say however that if the Jets determine best player available was ayers fair enough. He's probably good value at that pick. They are really sweating the linebackers this year it would seem.
    I think he was plenty fast enough. The problem was fluid hips (or lack there of) and nothing between the ears.

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