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Thread: Justin Houston, Muhammad Wilkerson & Jarvis Jenkins

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    everyone is scared of every pick being like Gholston. we should draft skinny players from small schools with no sacks cause they ain't like Gholston

    we all know that end of the day 4-3 DE converting to 3-4 OLB is risky.

    but Justin Houston appeals to both teams cause he played in both defenses.

    He's the only conversion player with actual 3-4 LB experience.

    I have broken down in other posts who I believe will and won't be there, Justin Houston most times, won't be there. make 10 mocks, Houston is off the board 8 of those 10 times. He's in the Heyward category of wishful thinking. His workout was absolutely top notch. Guys who work out that well and lead the SEC in sacks, don't usually last until 30. if Justin Houston went to Temple like Wilkerson, yeah ok maybe that competition hurts his stock.

    I guess what Im trying to say is nothing hurts Houston's stock. He's got no injuries, suspensions or other red-flags.
    Is being a moron a red flag? I certainly don't know the guy personally, but at least some people are saying that.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Does his film back up the workouts and production. I made the mistake of overlooking Gholston standing around on a lot of plays when he was in college because he was a beast workout wise and had the numbers. I want a relentless never stop kind of guy on every play.

    Also since there are going to be 35 guys gone for sure before the Jets pick at 30 we should be in good shape.

    Edit: btw I had the Jets taking Houston and J.Jenkins with the 1st and 3rd picks of my 1st jets mock.
    its not even close- he's very good out of a three point stance and awful standing up in a 3-4; anyone who's actually watched him at length on the field rather than troll message boards and look at workout numbers will tell you this...its been broken down in another thread...

    i am sure there are UGA games on espn you can download...take some time to watch them and give your impressions...

  3. #23
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    a guy doesn't have to be awesome at everything in college

    it's a projection game

    what will Justin Houston look like after 3-5 years of linebacker training... no one knows. he could be terrible in the 3-4, it's true but no one knows cause it's a conversion process. Pace and Thomas looked terrible too until they learned.

    despite the Clay Matthews type lightning strikes, the draft is not really for now. It's for down the road.

    and what CBNY is saying, how he looks in a 3 point stance, is exactly why he appeals to all the 4-3 teams... it drives up his demand. His workouts were sick.

    we can't just disgard his workout and say "i don't like this player" when making a mock. Houston is arguably way cleaner than Quinn (brain tumor), Clayborn (erb's palsy, char concerns), Bowers (knee). He had a better workout than Kerrigan, Reed, Smith... saying "I don't like this player in the Jets 3-4" is fine but it's not even gonna be an issue cause players like Houston don't last.

    remember last year we had a gentleman's wager on Terrence Cody going in the 1st (I was wrong and owned up to it)

    I'd be more than willing to double down on Justin Houston. I guarantee he's not there when the Jets pick.

  4. #24
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    I see bust with Houston...Don't care what anyone says about his numbers or workouts, his play in games is just so damn non-aggressive at times. He's content and happy staying on the periphery of a play rather than getting involved in any way. Occasionally he brings his level of effort up a few notches, but that won't work in the NFL and I don't want to have to hope that the coaches get it out of him.

  5. #25
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    Sounds like Aaron Maybin?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    a guy doesn't have to be awesome at everything in college

    it's a projection game

    what will Justin Houston look like after 3-5 years of linebacker training... no one knows. he could be terrible in the 3-4, it's true but no one knows cause it's a conversion process. Pace and Thomas looked terrible too until they learned.

    despite the Clay Matthews type lightning strikes, the draft is not really for now. It's for down the road.

    and what CBNY is saying, how he looks in a 3 point stance, is exactly why he appeals to all the 4-3 teams... it drives up his demand. His workouts were sick.

    we can't just disgard his workout and say "i don't like this player" when making a mock. Houston is arguably way cleaner than Quinn (brain tumor), Clayborn (erb's palsy, char concerns), Bowers (knee). He had a better workout than Kerrigan, Reed, Smith... saying "I don't like this player in the Jets 3-4" is fine but it's not even gonna be an issue cause players like Houston don't last.

    remember last year we had a gentleman's wager on Terrence Cody going in the 1st (I was wrong and owned up to it)

    I'd be more than willing to double down on Justin Houston. I guarantee he's not there when the Jets pick.
    He may or may not be there when the Jets pick... I don't really care.

    I have watched a handful of Georgia games and this guy rarely showed that he's the best player of the field or looked like the stud you're making him out to be.

    Just because he has a clean injury history doesn't mean he's a better player than Quinn, Bowers, or Clayborn. I would take every one of those guys -- injuries and all -- before Houston because they are just better.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Just because he has a clean injury history doesn't mean he's a better player than Quinn, Bowers, or Clayborn. I would take every one of those guys -- injuries and all -- before Houston because they are just better.
    not only does he have a better injury history... he also worked out better. Way better. injury history is burying the headline. the headline is Justin Houston is a better athlete than every 2011 DE besides maybe JJ Watt.

    that might not matter to you or me but I think it matters to the GMs.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    not only does he have a better injury history... he also worked out better. Way better. injury history is burying the headline. the headline is Justin Houston is a better athlete than every 2011 DE besides maybe JJ Watt.

    that might not matter to you or me but I think it matters to the GMs.
    Moch is a better athlete as well. Is he a 1st rounder? Not unless Al Davis finds a pick.

    He's just not a very good football player. Workout warrior. There I said it.

  9. #29
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    passrushers that can dip their shoulder, bend the edge, and also have stamina over a poly-directional 30-40 yards (40 yd dash [opposed to 10 yd split], 3 cone, shuttle) are just too valuable. There are only two positions more valuable -- QB and LT.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Sounds like Aaron Maybin?
    He's a better player than Maybin...I really don't see why anyone would draft a Penn State DL early unless he's an obviously elite talent.

    Houston would do well for himself in Atlanta if he was lucky enough to land there.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Moch is a better athlete as well. Is he a 1st rounder? Not unless Al Davis finds a pick.

    He's just not a very good football player. Workout warrior. There I said it.
    Moch is like 240, Houston is like 270. Houston has a rarer size/speed ratio.

    Whether or not they are good football players almost doesn't matter. by late April the draft ceases to be about football and it's all about upside.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Moch is like 240, Houston is like 270. Houston has a rarer size/speed ratio.

    Whether or not they are good football players almost doesn't matter. by late April the draft ceases to be about football and it's all about upside.
    At least you came right out and said it...

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    At least you came right out and said it...
    i still don't know how a guy can lead the SEC in sacks and be a "bad" football player but just accepting the critique for the sake of argument.

    People say he's Gholston-like ok well no one's using a 6 overall pick on him. but 20 to TB, 21 to KC, 24 to NO... there's alot of demand for pass rushers.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    At least you came right out and said it...
    look at taylor mays and everson griffen from last year.....some just never learn.,...









  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    look at taylor mays and everson griffen from last year.....some just never learn.,...









    It's just the absolute wrong way to look at the draft too.

    I screwed up one year by paying too much attention to workout numbers and I make sure that I'll never do it again. Just trust purely what you see in the games. Houston has big problems that are very tough to correct.

  16. #36
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    just to be clear im not saying Justin Houston is a great pick, future all-pro.

    what I'm saying is, if making a mock draft (which some posters don't have the guts to do), it's a smart bet he's not there at 30. probably 70% he's gone.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan1983 View Post
    It's just the absolute wrong way to look at the draft too.

    I screwed up one year by paying too much attention to workout numbers and I make sure that I'll never do it again. Just trust purely what you see in the games. Houston has big problems that are very tough to correct.
    workout numbers are an important part of the formula- but you can't get to carried away with them on either side......if a 370lbs NT can only complete 22 reps on the bench, has the slowest 10yd time at the combine and vets 22-inches, thats a problem....

    if a safety runs 4.34 in a straight line but can't back pedal or get outside the numbers, that's a problem....

    if a 320lb D-line runs a 5.40 but plays fast and can chase sideline to sideline that's not an issue...mike devito is a prime example- but he was a udfa....

    the problems for houston are between his ears- which is a scary thing for the next level and will only be exacerbated if you stand him up and ask him to read/diagnose...

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    not only does he have a better injury history... he also worked out better. Way better. injury history is burying the headline. the headline is Justin Houston is a better athlete than every 2011 DE besides maybe JJ Watt.

    that might not matter to you or me but I think it matters to the GMs.
    The headline is actually that he threw up better workout numbers...I don't think he's in Quinn or Millers' class as an athlete. Athleticism is much more than your workout numbers.

  19. #39
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    Houston, we have a problem. Keep seeing the Jets linked to Georgia DE/OLB Justin Houston in some mock drafts. He's a workout phenom with very good production, but a longtime scout told me he takes plays off and doesn't have linebacker instincts. Said the scout, "A scout from another team told me, 'This guy is like Vernon Gholston.' He's right." Uh, oh.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jet...medium=twitter

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